CDZ The best strategy, disarming law abiding gun owners, or keeping criminals locked up.

[M14 Shooter]

I'm sorry -- I don't see where you agreed or disagreed with - that is, responded to - my point.
Please - give it a try.

When did you quit beating your wife?

And thus, you have not responded to my post.
Just like I said.

You are being stupid. You got your reply.

As previously noted:
You aren't responding to what I actually said, you're making a separate point.
Thanks.

No separate point is being made.

My point was:
Everything that disqualifies you for gun ownership is public record - thus, background checks need be no more invasive than checking said public records.
You know your statement, above, is false, as you know nothing you have posted addresses that point.
Thus, you aren't responding to what I actually said, you're making a separate point.
Thanks

 

[Porter Rockwell]

When did you quit beating your wife?

And thus, you have not responded to my post.
Just like I said.

You are being stupid. You got your reply.

As previously noted:
You aren't responding to what I actually said, you're making a separate point.
Thanks.

No separate point is being made.

My point was:
Everything that disqualifies you for gun ownership is public record - thus, background checks need be no more invasive than checking said public records.
You know your statement, above, is false, as you know nothing you have posted addresses that point.
Thus, you aren't responding to what I actually said, you're making a separate point.
Thanks

Nothing I've stated is false. It's just not the answer you wanted.

 

[M14 Shooter]

And thus, you have not responded to my post.
Just like I said.

You are being stupid. You got your reply.

As previously noted:
You aren't responding to what I actually said, you're making a separate point.
Thanks.

No separate point is being made.

My point was:
Everything that disqualifies you for gun ownership is public record - thus, background checks need be no more invasive than checking said public records.
You know your statement, above, is false, as you know nothing you have posted addresses that point.
Thus, you aren't responding to what I actually said, you're making a separate point.
Thanks

Nothing I've stated...

... addresses the point I made.
I know. So do you.

 

[JoeB131]

And you fail to point out the rest of that equation....the democrat party keeps letting known, repeat offenders out of prison, often in less than 3 years.....locking up violent gun offenders does nothing, if you just let them back out again with a revolving door......the police chiefs of these cities are telling everyone, the primary reason for gun crime is the constant releasing of violent gun offenders on bond and out of prison with short sentences....

Except most gun crimes are people who've never been in trouble before. LIke this idiot who shot up five of his neighbors last week.

We don't have enough room in the prisons now to lock everyone up. We lock up 2 million people right now. Cook County jail has close to 6000 inmates in it.

 

[JoeB131]

If we stop locking up people for nonviolent crimes we'll have plenty of room

Did you know that 2\3 of the people in prison have not even been convicted of a crime but are awaiting trial?

That's the real problem with our so called criminal justice system

But here's the thing... the people that 2AG whines about getting out also haven't been convicted of anything yet. That's why they are getting bonds... we don't have the space to lock all these people up. So we bust the young punk who happened to be packing, we let out the con-artist who cheats old people on fake roof repairs? (I have a friend who recently retired as a Consumer Fraud Detective, and his main frustration was how many of these guys were let go after stealing people's life savings, because they were "non-violent'.

But you'll want to let that "non-violent" guy go and lock up the guy who was packing because he lives in a dangerous neighborhood and wanted to protect himself.

 

[2aguy]

Try reading the Fourth Amendment.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
How does this relate to the state checking the public records of the state?

Your "papers" would be inclusive of your electronic records

What's that have to do with the state checking the public record to see if you are, say, a felon?

1) In this country there is a presumption of innocence / innocent until proven guilty in a court of law by a jury of one's peers

2) You have a Right to Privacy

3) There is no probable cause to believe I am a felon just because I'm exercising an unalienable Right.

At a personal level, I think you should REHABILITATE people before sending them back into society AND then restoring them to their full status as a freeman.

With humanists, atheists, and other non-Christians gaining power in this country I'm wondering how long it will be before they want a background check before you vote (you might be a racist you know.) I wonder if the government may some day require a background check before you join a church. And, with the Red Flag Laws, since you've been to see a mental health professional, will they disqualify you from gun ownership for marital issues, a smoking addiction that is psychological (a psychologist may argue that your mental state coming off cigarettes makes you dangerous) ?

Things you think are impossible may be interpreted in ways you could not begin to fathom. BTW, there is a book that discusses the concept (not the specific issue here), but it is call Unintended Consequences.

"With humanists, atheists, and other non-Christians gaining power in this country I'm wondering how long it will be before they want a background check before you vote"


with conservative christian republicans in charge I worry more about atheists and rational people losing their rights.

Unions have already tried to get rid of the secret ballot in work places......

 

[2aguy]

And you fail to point out the rest of that equation....the democrat party keeps letting known, repeat offenders out of prison, often in less than 3 years.....locking up violent gun offenders does nothing, if you just let them back out again with a revolving door......the police chiefs of these cities are telling everyone, the primary reason for gun crime is the constant releasing of violent gun offenders on bond and out of prison with short sentences....

Except most gun crimes are people who've never been in trouble before. LIke this idiot who shot up five of his neighbors last week.

We don't have enough room in the prisons now to lock everyone up. We lock up 2 million people right now. Cook County jail has close to 6000 inmates in it.

Except most gun crimes are people who've never been in trouble before.


Nothing in actual criminal violence research supports this....you are wrong....

The Criminology of Firearms


In 2004, the National Academy of Sciences reviewed 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications and some empirical research of its own about guns. The Academy could not identify any gun restriction that had reduced violent crime, suicide or gun accidents.

Why don't gun bans work? Because they rely on voluntary compliance by gun-using criminals. Prohibitionists never see this absurdity because they deceive themselves into thinking that, as Katherine Christoffel has said: "[M]ost shootings are not committed by felons or mentally ill people, but are acts of passion that are committed using a handgun that is owned for home protection."

Christoffel, et al., are utterly wrong. The whole corpus of criminological research dating back to the 1890'sshows murderers "almost uniformly have a long history of involvement in criminal behavior," and that "[v]irtually all" murderers and other gun criminals have prior felony records — generally long ones.

While only 15 percent of Americans have criminal records, roughly 90 percent of adult murderers have prior adult records — exclusive of their often extensive juvenile records — with crime careers of six or more adult years including four major felonies. Gerald D. Robin, writing for the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences,notes that, unlike ordinary gun owners, "the average murderer turns out to be no less hardened a criminal than the average robber or burglar."

 

[JoeB131]

Except most gun crimes are people who've never been in trouble before.


Nothing in actual criminal violence research supports this....you are wrong....

Oh, noes, here comes the NRA Spooge.

Most gun deaths are suicides, domestic violence and accidents.

It's why these people can get guns without having criminal records.

 

[2aguy]

Except most gun crimes are people who've never been in trouble before.


Nothing in actual criminal violence research supports this....you are wrong....

Oh, noes, here comes the NRA Spooge.

Most gun deaths are suicides, domestic violence and accidents.

It's why these people can get guns without having criminal records.

Where exactly was "NRA" in anything I posted? You are the one with the NRA fixation.......you can't address the truth, so you default...NRA,NRA,NRA....

 

[JoeB131]

Where exactly was "NRA" in anything I posted? You are the one with the NRA fixation.......you can't address the truth, so you default...NRA,NRA,NRA....

Okay, buddy, not sure what you are going to do when the NRA gets busted up.

Back to the point.

Every time we have a mass shooting, we find out two things.

1) Everyone in that person's life knew he was nuts.
2) He still had no problem getting a gun.

 

[2aguy]

Where exactly was "NRA" in anything I posted? You are the one with the NRA fixation.......you can't address the truth, so you default...NRA,NRA,NRA....

Okay, buddy, not sure what you are going to do when the NRA gets busted up.

Back to the point.

Every time we have a mass shooting, we find out two things.

1) Everyone in that person's life knew he was nuts.
2) He still had no problem getting a gun.

Yes.......everyone knew he was nuts, including the police who were likely called on the guy....again, we have all the laws we need to deal with them.....the problem is that the police don't deal with them......and for regular criminals, the democrats keep letting them out of jail on bond, and out of prison on short sentences...

Mass public shootings in 2018.... 12, total killed, 93.

Criminal murder......10, 265 in 2018......

Our problem isn't the nut with a gun, our problem is the democrats letting repeat gun offenders out of prison on less than 3 year sentences.......

Keep repeat gun offenders in prison and you stop 95% of all gun crime......without one more new gun law needed.....

 

[JoeB131]

Yes.......everyone knew he was nuts, including the police who were likely called on the guy....again, we have all the laws we need to deal with them.....the problem is that the police don't deal with them......and for regular criminals, the democrats keep letting them out of jail on bond, and out of prison on short sentences...

Again, we lock up 2 million people. We lock up more people than other western Democracies, who only lock up 78,000 people (Germany) or 69,000 (Japan).

But they don't let people have guns, so it's not so much of a problem.

So let's get this straight. The streets are a dangerous place because we have too many nuts out there with guns.. and it's easier for a person of color to get a gun than to get a job.

So the wingnut answer? LOCK THEM UP!

So we lock up 2 million people, even further dimming their job prospects... and we wonder why we have more crime.

As Deep Throat said... follow the money. Look who is making money off of the failed policies of flooding the streets with guns and locking up millions of people.

 

[2aguy]

Another story about releasing violent gun offenders is in the press today. This time, it is Washington D.C. complaining about the policy of releasing violent, repeat gun offenders over and over again. This policy is in place in the major cities....including Detroit, D.C., Baltimore, Chicago, St. Louis.....all of the places where there are a lot of gun crimes and murders. New York, which had better policies in place after Rudy Guilliani, is now going back to those same policies....catch and release of violent gun offenders.

So...My strategy is simple...keep violent gun criminals locked up in jail....this worked in the past, it works now. Can someone on the other side explain how releasing repeat gun criminals will lower the gun crime rate?

To those who put a "funny" emoji.......care to actually respond, since my policy would actually work, while your gun grabbing doesn't do anything?

 

[2aguy]

Yes.......everyone knew he was nuts, including the police who were likely called on the guy....again, we have all the laws we need to deal with them.....the problem is that the police don't deal with them......and for regular criminals, the democrats keep letting them out of jail on bond, and out of prison on short sentences...

Again, we lock up 2 million people. We lock up more people than other western Democracies, who only lock up 78,000 people (Germany) or 69,000 (Japan).

But they don't let people have guns, so it's not so much of a problem.

So let's get this straight. The streets are a dangerous place because we have too many nuts out there with guns.. and it's easier for a person of color to get a gun than to get a job.

So the wingnut answer? LOCK THEM UP!

So we lock up 2 million people, even further dimming their job prospects... and we wonder why we have more crime.

As Deep Throat said... follow the money. Look who is making money off of the failed policies of flooding the streets with guns and locking up millions of people.

Democrats are letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of prison in under 3 years...so it doesn't matter how many people are temporarily locked up if they are released over and over again to commit more gun crimes....

I support a life sentence on any criminal who uses a gun for an actual gun crime..... and 30 years if a criminal is caught in possession of a gun, even if they are not using it at that moment for crime.

This will dry up gun crime over night. Criminals will stop using guns for robberies, rapes and murders.....and those who do will be gone forever......

Criminals will also stop walking around with guns in their pants......which is the leading cause of random gang shootings in our cities. if they are stopped by police, with a gun in their pants, they are gone for 30 years...they will stop carrying those guns, and random gang violence will end.

You implement this with two other things...

1) No More Bargaining Away the Gun Charge.........it must be against the law to bargain away a gun charge as part of a plea deal....this stops.

2) When a criminal is arrested for any crime, and booked in...they will be read the announcement that any use of a crime is a life sentence without parole, owning or carrying a gun as a felon is a 30 year sentence without parole....when they are released from custody...the same will be read to them again....when they meet their parole officer it will be read to them again.....the U.S. government will also buy and send out Public announcements on this policy on t.v. radio. and cable......

That is how you stop gun crime over night.

Mass shooters are different..... but with only 93 people killed in mass public shootings in 2018, they are not the major problem in gun crime.

The value in my plan......it actually targets the individuals actually using guns to commit crimes and murder people....

It does not require new background check laws, it does not require gun licensing, licensing gun owners, gun registration, new taxes, fees or regulations on guns...

By making gun crime a life sentence, criminals will stop using guns for crime and will stop carrying guns around for protection.....

Also....a nurse, with a legal gun, driving from Pennsylvania, to New Jersey, will not be considered a gun criminal.....that will end. Criminals with a record of crime, caught with a gun will get 30 years, no deals.....and criminals who use guns for actual crime...robbing the local store, rape, robbery, murder.....life without parole...

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....
Mass shooters

1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

4) Make sure the police who know these nuts arrest these nuts when they have the chance so they will pop on background checks....
What does each do to stop mass shooters....

1) keeps shooters from targeting people, since they target gun free zones.

2) The media not covering it like they are the criminal oscars deters copycats...just like they stopped covering teen suicides to stop the copycat effect

3) The only way to stop mass shooters, since they commit no other crime, is for family, coworkers and neighbors to report their violent behavior....the Odessa shooter should have felonies for the crimes he was committing but they didn't report his shooting his weapon from his front porch....

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

 

[2aguy]

Yes.......everyone knew he was nuts, including the police who were likely called on the guy....again, we have all the laws we need to deal with them.....the problem is that the police don't deal with them......and for regular criminals, the democrats keep letting them out of jail on bond, and out of prison on short sentences...

Again, we lock up 2 million people. We lock up more people than other western Democracies, who only lock up 78,000 people (Germany) or 69,000 (Japan).

But they don't let people have guns, so it's not so much of a problem.

So let's get this straight. The streets are a dangerous place because we have too many nuts out there with guns.. and it's easier for a person of color to get a gun than to get a job.

So the wingnut answer? LOCK THEM UP!

So we lock up 2 million people, even further dimming their job prospects... and we wonder why we have more crime.

As Deep Throat said... follow the money. Look who is making money off of the failed policies of flooding the streets with guns and locking up millions of people.

Germany murdered 12 million unarmed people....started 2 world wars.

Japan murderd 3 million unarmed people.....started war in the pacific and slaughtered millions....

Sorry, looking to those countries as moral authorities has no basis in truth....

 

[JoeB131]

emocrats are letting violent, repeat gun offenders out of prison in under 3 years...so it doesn't matter how many people are temporarily locked up if they are released over and over again to commit more gun crimes....

Because we DON'T HAVE ROOM FOR THEM. How many times do I need to repeat this to you?

We lock up 2 million people. We have another 7 million in the revolving door of parole and probation. We've effectively destroyed their job prospects and we wonder why they become "repeat offenders"... and oh, yeah, we make it easy as pie for them to get a gun.

So here's a crazy idea. Stop locking people up, make it harder for them to get guns, and actually put an emphasis on getting them jobs.

You know, like Europe does, where they have nowhere near our problems.

(Oh, wait, this is where you insert some story about how there was a shooting in the UK two years ago.)

 

[JoeB131]

Germany murdered 12 million unarmed people....started 2 world wars.

Actually, it's a slander to blame Germany for WWI. And bad history. The ability of a government to kill lots of people has nothing to do with how many guns they have.

Japan murderd 3 million unarmed people.....started war in the pacific and slaughtered millions....

Actually, they killed more than that.. but those people had plenty of guns...

Sorry, looking to those countries as moral authorities has no basis in truth....

If you have to go back 70 years, 70 years ago, we had common sense gun laws in this country...

We didn't have anywhere near the crime we have now.

 

[Blues Man]

Another story about releasing violent gun offenders is in the press today. This time, it is Washington D.C. complaining about the policy of releasing violent, repeat gun offenders over and over again. This policy is in place in the major cities....including Detroit, D.C., Baltimore, Chicago, St. Louis.....all of the places where there are a lot of gun crimes and murders. New York, which had better policies in place after Rudy Guilliani, is now going back to those same policies....catch and release of violent gun offenders.

We lock up 2 million people... we don't have enough room to lock people up for "merely having a gun".

If we stop locking up people for nonviolent crimes we'll have plenty of room

Did you know that 2\3 of the people in prison have not even been convicted of a crime but are awaiting trial?

That's the real problem with our so called criminal justice system

Most people are in prison over drug offenses. For every drug addict in a mental health facility, there are more than 10 drug addicts in prison. Americans consume over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply and a lot of it comes from the "legal" market. Our society creates drug addicts and then sends them to prison. At what level does this make sense to you?

Where did I ever imply that?

 

[Blues Man]

If we stop locking up people for nonviolent crimes we'll have plenty of room

Did you know that 2\3 of the people in prison have not even been convicted of a crime but are awaiting trial?

That's the real problem with our so called criminal justice system

But here's the thing... the people that 2AG whines about getting out also haven't been convicted of anything yet. That's why they are getting bonds... we don't have the space to lock all these people up. So we bust the young punk who happened to be packing, we let out the con-artist who cheats old people on fake roof repairs? (I have a friend who recently retired as a Consumer Fraud Detective, and his main frustration was how many of these guys were let go after stealing people's life savings, because they were "non-violent'.

But you'll want to let that "non-violent" guy go and lock up the guy who was packing because he lives in a dangerous neighborhood and wanted to protect himself.

No 2A has stated and provided links repeatedly that most people who commit crimes with guns have already been in prison for other offenses, many of them violent offenses.

And if the guy who was packing was doing it ILLEGALLY the ************ should go to prison shouldn't he?

 

[JoeB131]

To those who put a "funny" emoji.......care to actually respond, since my policy would actually work, while your gun grabbing doesn't do anything?

Except we haven't grabbed the guns, and we already lock up 2 million people, and if anything, Crime is worse, not better.

This, of course, eliminates the need for more gun control laws...we can already do this.....
Mass shooters

1) end gun free zones

2) get the media to stop covering mass shootings like it is the Oscars.....

3) We are already seeing this...get people who know these nuts to report these nuts....

Do they? Because the NRA opposed red flag laws, so what's the point?

4) The Parkland shooter had 33 contacts with police and numerous contacts with police at his school.....due to Obama's "Promise Program" the police never arrested him for the felonies he committed....so he didn't pop on the background check..

Actually, they had 33 calls about the FAMILY, not the shooter himself.

In some of them, the calls were about "Child abuse" - which means that the shooter was the victim, not the criminal.

"Calls relating to Nikolas Cruz include descriptions of fights with his brother, cursing at his mother, and throwing her against the wall for taking away his Xbox. The issues brought to the sheriff's attention worsen over time. In 2014, someone accused him of shooting a chicken with a BB gun."

OH MY GOD, HE SHOT A CHICKEN WITH A BB GUN!!! Sounds like a hardened criminal!!!