The ATF and the Rest of the Federal Government has learned the Exact Wrong Lesson from Waco

[Seymour Flops]

The lesson they should have learned is to not to SWAT raids, when they could easily arrest the target in broad daylight in a situation in which the target would be lightly armed if that.

They could have also learned that these pre-dawn raids are great for commandos in a war, when you want to kill everyone in the building and collatoral damage is unfortunate, but permissable. But they are not appropriate for searchging the home of an American suspected of a non-violent crime.

Instead they somehow thought that the mistake of Waco was not to simulate a home invastion by criminals and then kill the subject as soon as they resist.

Oh, yeah. And NO cameras! No body cams for the raiders, and disable any cameras that might be on the property.

Arkansas lawmakers: Did ATF agents use body cameras in fatal raid? • Arkansas Advocate

Arkansas lawmakers want answers from federal agents about a raid that ended in the fatal shooting of Little Rock’s airport director.

arkansasadvocate.com

“Why is no one talking? Do they not understand that the longer they wait to explain, the more suspicious and cynical the public becomes about the ATF and its actions?”

In this case, he said, the ATF has “run roughshod over the civil rights of Arkansas citizens, and some contend gotten away with cold-blooded murder.”

“Bryan did what I would have” if roused from sleep by unknown persons invading his home, Duffield said. “He did what most Arkansans would have. And he paid for it with his life. And for all we know, it was the price he paid for simply being a gun collector.”

This guy ran the Bill and Hillary Clinton Airport during the day. I'm pretty sure the ATF could have found it on Google Maps. They could have arrested him at the airport, and knocked on the door of his house to serve the warrant.

Instead, they chose to act like eight year olds playing Army.

 

[mamooth]

Good job at bringing Hunter Biden into it. It's a nice touch of BDS.

 

[Oddball]

The lesson they should have learned is to not to SWAT raids, when they could easily arrest the target in broad daylight in a situation in which the target would be lightly armed if that.

They could have also learned that these pre-dawn raids are great for commandos in a war, when you want to kill everyone in the building and collatoral damage is unfortunate, but permissable. But they are not appropriate for searchging the home of an American suspected of a non-violent crime.

Instead they somehow thought that the mistake of Waco was not to simulate a home invastion by criminals and then kill the subject as soon as they resist.

Oh, yeah. And NO cameras! No body cams for the raiders, and disable any cameras that might be on the property.

Arkansas lawmakers: Did ATF agents use body cameras in fatal raid? • Arkansas Advocate

Arkansas lawmakers want answers from federal agents about a raid that ended in the fatal shooting of Little Rock’s airport director.

arkansasadvocate.com

“Why is no one talking? Do they not understand that the longer they wait to explain, the more suspicious and cynical the public becomes about the ATF and its actions?”

In this case, he said, the ATF has “run roughshod over the civil rights of Arkansas citizens, and some contend gotten away with cold-blooded murder.”

“Bryan did what I would have” if roused from sleep by unknown persons invading his home, Duffield said. “He did what most Arkansans would have. And he paid for it with his life. And for all we know, it was the price he paid for simply being a gun collector.”

This guy ran the Bill and Hillary Clinton Airport during the day. I'm pretty sure the ATF could have found it on Google Maps. They could have arrested him at the airport, and knocked on the door of his house to serve the warrant.

Instead, they chose to act like eight year olds playing Army.

They learned that they can literally get away with murder....There's no stopping those goons now.

 

[iku]

They learned that they can literally get away with murder....There's no stopping those goons now.

The smallest caliber handgun I own is 10mm and the smallest caliber semiautomatic rifle I have is .308
I do have 12G semiautomatic and pump shotguns as well. 10mm will stop a bear.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

The lesson they should have learned is to not to SWAT raids, when they could easily arrest the target in broad daylight in a situation in which the target would be lightly armed if that.

They could have also learned that these pre-dawn raids are great for commandos in a war, when you want to kill everyone in the building and collatoral damage is unfortunate, but permissable. But they are not appropriate for searchging the home of an American suspected of a non-violent crime.

Instead they somehow thought that the mistake of Waco was not to simulate a home invastion by criminals and then kill the subject as soon as they resist.

Oh, yeah. And NO cameras! No body cams for the raiders, and disable any cameras that might be on the property.

Arkansas lawmakers: Did ATF agents use body cameras in fatal raid? • Arkansas Advocate

Arkansas lawmakers want answers from federal agents about a raid that ended in the fatal shooting of Little Rock’s airport director.

arkansasadvocate.com

“Why is no one talking? Do they not understand that the longer they wait to explain, the more suspicious and cynical the public becomes about the ATF and its actions?”

In this case, he said, the ATF has “run roughshod over the civil rights of Arkansas citizens, and some contend gotten away with cold-blooded murder.”

“Bryan did what I would have” if roused from sleep by unknown persons invading his home, Duffield said. “He did what most Arkansans would have. And he paid for it with his life. And for all we know, it was the price he paid for simply being a gun collector.”

This guy ran the Bill and Hillary Clinton Airport during the day. I'm pretty sure the ATF could have found it on Google Maps. They could have arrested him at the airport, and knocked on the door of his house to serve the warrant.

Instead, they chose to act like eight year olds playing Army.

Remember that Joe Bribem's DOJ had authorized the right of the invading agents to use deadly force, against the Secret Service agents of President Trump. We are now a 3rd world nation and we are not protected by our Constitution.

 

[Failzero]

Remember that Joe Bribem's DOJ had authorized the right of the invading agents to use deadly force, against the Secret Service agents of President Trump. We are now a 3rd world nation and we are not protected by our Constitution.

Midsommar will sort a lot out

 

[Seymour Flops]

This guy’s home was rated, not because he broke the law, but because the ATF changed their rules about interpreting the law. They could’ve called him up at his job at the airport and said hey, under the new rules, you need a federal firearm license.

Instead, they played, one of the worst games of gotcha ever.

Now they don’t want to talk about it? They want to Stonewall, our elected representatives, who need answers to their questions? Now they want to wait for police to investigate themselves to show how respectful they are of the process?

The DOJ officials above them are not unhappy. They love this. They want a frightened populous, which are much easier to manage than free people who are not afraid.

 

[whitehall]

A FBI sniper was authorized to shoot to kill an unarmed woman holding a baby during the "Ruby Ridge siege". Randy Weaver was wounded and his wife was shot in the face. It all happened because ATF agents tried to force Weaver to be a federal informant. The sniper was indicted by an Idaho Grand Jury but the indictment was quietly dismissed. The Ruby Ridge gestapo went on to bigger and badder adventures in Waco, Texas, killing about 80 men, women and children with tanks and poison gas when they could have arrested Koresh at the 7-11 without incident.

 

[Failzero]

I

A FBI sniper was authorized to shoot to kill an unarmed woman holding a baby during the "Ruby Ridge siege". Randy Weaver was wounded and his wife was shot in the face. It all happened because ATF agents tried to force Weaver to be a federal informant. The sniper was indicted by an Idaho Grand Jury but the indictment was quietly dismissed. The Ruby Ridge gestapo went on to bigger and badder adventures in Waco, Texas, killing about 80 men, women and children with tanks and poison gas when they could have arrested Koresh at the 7-11 without incident.

If a few angry Bubbas can pull off the Oklahoma City Federal Building bombing then imagine what 15 Million pissed off Ultra Conservative Patriots could do

 

[Zincwarrior]

If only the crazies had just surrendered peacefully.

 

[Failzero]

If

If only the crazies had just surrendered peacefully.

If only the Feds had the Sheriff pick up David Koresh at the Video Store or the Dairy Queen

 

[whitehall]

I

If a few angry Bubbas can pull off the Oklahoma City Federal Building bombing then imagine what 15 Million pissed off Ultra Conservative Patriots could do

The ATF isn't that good but they were on McVeigh's tail immediately after the bombing and they knew his vehicle. Logic would indicate that McVeigh was an ATF target or informant and the whole thing went tragically wrong. Federal death row convicts wait an average of 20 years if they were ever executed. The Feds put the needle in McVeigh in seven years from the time he was arrested.

 

[Failzero]

The ATF isn't that good but they were on McVeigh's tail immediately after the bombing and they knew his vehicle. Logic would indicate that McVeigh was an ATF target or informant and the whole thing went tragically wrong. Federal death row convicts wait an average of 20 years if they were ever executed. The Feds put the needle in McVeigh in seven years from the time he was arrested.

1898 Lynching Party is laughing @ 7 years

 

[whitehall]

1898 Lynching Party is laughing @ 7 years

I don't know what that means but my point is that the Feds. knew it was McVeigh. How is that possible? There were some logistics problems inherent in the ATF's case like how did McVeigh drive his own car and the truck to the site? Did the ATF warn the local court to cancel for the day before the incident? What about the unidentified J.D. #2? The media wasn't curious at the time and everyone breathed a sigh of relief when McVeigh got the needle.

 

[Failzero]

It means in the Pre 20th Century era guys like McVey were forcefully taken from Custody and hanged within 72 hours in most cases and sometimes within 24 hours .

 

[Soupnazi630]

The ATF isn't that good but they were on McVeigh's tail immediately after the bombing and they knew his vehicle. Logic would indicate that McVeigh was an ATF target or informant and the whole thing went tragically wrong. Federal death row convicts wait an average of 20 years if they were ever executed. The Feds put the needle in McVeigh in seven years from the time he was arrested.

That is not accurate at all.

they had no CLUE what sort of get away vehicle he had and they only had a composite sketch of him. It was an accurate sketch but just a sketch.

He was actually picked up by the state police for driving with no license plates and they had no idea he was the bomber when they arrested him. He actually sat in jail until the day of his arraignment before they realized who they had.

He was no ATF informant and no evidence sugests he was one

 

[Soupnazi630]

If only the crazies had just surrendered

They tried.

Koresh was waiting for the ATF outside the compund unarmed and with hands up. He was asking them to be careful as there were women and kids in the compound. That is when they opened fire.

 

[surada]

If only the crazies had just surrendered peacefully.

The Waco Siege: 6 Little‑Known Facts | HISTORY

What really happened during the 1993 Waco siege between the government and mysterious cult leader David Koresh may never be known. But intriguing clues remain.

www.history.com

The Texas town of Waco has, for many Americans, become synonymous with tragedy—ever since the 51-day Waco siege in 1993 between the federal government and an extremist religious sect called the Branch Davidians ended in a deadly fire.

The group, led by controversial self-proclaimed prophet David Koresh, was an offshoot of another group called Shepherd’s Rod, which was connected to the Seventh-day Adventists.

 

[Zincwarrior]

The Waco Siege: 6 Little‑Known Facts | HISTORY

What really happened during the 1993 Waco siege between the government and mysterious cult leader David Koresh may never be known. But intriguing clues remain.

www.history.com

The Texas town of Waco has, for many Americans, become synonymous with tragedy—ever since the 51-day Waco siege in 1993 between the federal government and an extremist religious sect called the Branch Davidians ended in a deadly fire.

The group, led by controversial self-proclaimed prophet David Koresh, was an offshoot of another group called Shepherd’s Rod, which was connected to the Seventh-day Adventists.

WACO is now more remembered as the place where two biker gangs got into a shootout. Deputies outside may or may not have started mag dumping into the bar too.

2015 Waco shootout - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[LeroyDumonde]

What they learned is that federal agents can set children on fire and they won't be held responsible.