The allies biggest mistake

[Munin]

Was not taking and occupying the whole of Germany one of the biggest mistakes of the Allied forces? Thanks to German technology the Russians managed to raise their technology to an unprecedented level.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ijtwhU3UWw&feature=related]YouTube - NAZIS SECRET WEAPONS (Part 1)[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1Zy698ND4&feature=related]YouTube - NAZIS SECRET WEAPONS (Part 2)[/ame]


Also the capture of Berlin was a symbolic sign that the Soviet Union claimed victory over the third Reich and not the Allied forces wich gave the Soviets a psychological advantage in the cold war. The few technology that the US managed to take proves that this was essential to the further development of the cold war, after all it was a Nazi rocket scientist who got the US to the moon and gave them all other technological advantages in rocket science.

What do you think, is this the allies biggest mistake during WWII?

 

[Svante]

Finland allied to Germany i n the war becuase t o protect land in Sortavala from Russia.

 

[dilloduck]

Was not taking and occupying the whole of Germany one of the biggest mistakes of the Allied forces? Thanks to German technology the Russians managed to raise their technology to an unprecedented level.

YouTube - NAZIS SECRET WEAPONS (Part 1)


YouTube - NAZIS SECRET WEAPONS (Part 2)


Also the capture of Berlin was a symbolic sign that the Soviet Union claimed victory over the third Reich and not the Allied forces wich gave the Soviets a psychological advantage in the cold war. The few technology that the US managed to take proves that this was essential to the further development of the cold war, after all it was a Nazi rocket scientist who got the US to the moon and gave them all other technological advantages in rocket science.

What do you think, is this the allies biggest mistake during WWII?

Current events are also showing us what a poor job the allies did in dividing up the spoils of war.

 

[Munin]

Current events are also showing us what a poor job the allies did in dividing up the spoils of war.

What do you mean?

 

[roomy]

The cold war is over and nobody won, I don't understand this thread.

 

[dilloduck]

Current events are also showing us what a poor job the allies did in dividing up the spoils of war.

What do you mean?

The artificial political boundries and the return of colonies to thier former owners has proved quite troublesome for the mideast and southeast asia.

 

[Munin]

The cold war is over and nobody won, I don't understand this thread.

No, the West won the "cold war". Well it was not a war, but more like a stand off where the Soviet Union caved in.

The thing is that if the Allies took Berlin and the rest of Germany we would have had all the technological advantages. And would still have the advantages of it.

 

[roomy]

The cold war is over and nobody won, I don't understand this thread.

No, the West won the "cold war". Well it was not a war, but more like a stand off where the Soviet Union caved in.

The thing is that if the Allies took Berlin and the rest of Germany we would have had all the technological advantages. And would still have the advantages of it.

What have they got that we dont?What advantages are you talking about?I don't understand what point you are trying to make.

 

[Munin]

The cold war is over and nobody won, I don't understand this thread.

No, the West won the "cold war". Well it was not a war, but more like a stand off where the Soviet Union caved in.

The thing is that if the Allies took Berlin and the rest of Germany we would have had all the technological advantages. And would still have the advantages of it.

What have they got that we dont?What advantages are you talking about?I don't understand what point you are trying to make.

The nazis were far ahead of all other Nations in certain areas of technology. They had the first Jet fighter, the first decent tank, the first robot used in a war (the goliath), the first computer technology, all the other technology they managed to get far ahead of other nations (while in other technological areas like radar they were behind in but in many other areas they were ahead). The scientists from Germany that were captured proved to be the biggest assets to the Nations that managed to get them, like the example of the rocket scientist I gave. After 1945 all major Nations that occupied Germany had significant technologic advancements, that made that research was accelerated multiple times faster then normally would have been the case and as a result we made progress in a very short period that would otherwise if normally been researched taken many years longer. We would be at least another 5 years further in technological advancement in certain areas because the scientists wouldn't have to reinvent stuff from scratch and could work on other projects. The occupation of Germany by the Soviets was a very costly mistake, because of the technology they gained from it and we lost by not taking it.

 

[Xenophon]

The biggest mistake by far was providing enormous amounts of lend lease material to the Soviet union with no strings attached.

All the material should have had stipulations such as restoring the London Poles and not allowing communist takeovers in eastern and central europe, and the soviets should have been REQUIRED to restore what they stole in the Ribbentrop-Molitov Pact, namely the Baltic states and eastern Poland.

 

[Annie]

The biggest mistake by far was providing enormous amounts of lend lease material to the Soviet union with no strings attached.

All the material should have had stipulations such as restoring the London Poles and not allowing communist takeovers in eastern and central europe, and the soviets should have been REQUIRED to restore what they stole in the Ribbentrop-Molitov Pact, namely the Baltic states and eastern Poland.

Disagree, that should have happened earlier, by far. On the other hand, in my thinking the largest error was giving the Soviets equal divvies. Certainly there was the guilt factor, but the intention factor was known.

 

[Modbert]

The biggest mistake by far was providing enormous amounts of lend lease material to the Soviet union with no strings attached.

All the material should have had stipulations such as restoring the London Poles and not allowing communist takeovers in eastern and central europe, and the soviets should have been REQUIRED to restore what they stole in the Ribbentrop-Molitov Pact, namely the Baltic states and eastern Poland.

Disagree, that should have happened earlier, by far. On the other hand, in my thinking the largest error was giving the Soviets equal divvies. Certainly there was the guilt factor, but the intention factor was known.

Patton was right on the money when it came to the Soviets.

 

[michiganFats]

I agree with Roomy. What don't we have? I also do not understand the point of this thread.

 

[Kazikli Bey]

Was not taking and occupying the whole of Germany one of the biggest mistakes of the Allied forces? Thanks to German technology the Russians managed to raise their technology to an unprecedented level.

YouTube - NAZIS SECRET WEAPONS (Part 1)


YouTube - NAZIS SECRET WEAPONS (Part 2)


Also the capture of Berlin was a symbolic sign that the Soviet Union claimed victory over the third Reich and not the Allied forces wich gave the Soviets a psychological advantage in the cold war. The few technology that the US managed to take proves that this was essential to the further development of the cold war, after all it was a Nazi rocket scientist who got the US to the moon and gave them all other technological advantages in rocket science.

What do you think, is this the allies biggest mistake during WWII?

What, so you mean that after meeting up with Russia, they should have just attacked Russia? The reason why the Allies didn't take the whole of Germany is because Russia had captured more then its fair share of Germany and had even passed Berlin on their way to destroying the Third Reich. The War was over, there was no need to continue on.

 

[elvis]

Was not taking and occupying the whole of Germany one of the biggest mistakes of the Allied forces? Thanks to German technology the Russians managed to raise their technology to an unprecedented level.

YouTube - NAZIS SECRET WEAPONS (Part 1)


YouTube - NAZIS SECRET WEAPONS (Part 2)


Also the capture of Berlin was a symbolic sign that the Soviet Union claimed victory over the third Reich and not the Allied forces wich gave the Soviets a psychological advantage in the cold war. The few technology that the US managed to take proves that this was essential to the further development of the cold war, after all it was a Nazi rocket scientist who got the US to the moon and gave them all other technological advantages in rocket science.


What do you think, is this the allies biggest mistake during WWII?

Stalin captured Berlin by unnecessarily sacrificing hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers, all so he could beat the US and Britain to Berlin and be the one who "conquered Hitler". Probably revenge for him being humiliated by Hitler in 1941. He cared little for human lives.

 

[Modbert]

Was not taking and occupying the whole of Germany one of the biggest mistakes of the Allied forces? Thanks to German technology the Russians managed to raise their technology to an unprecedented level.

YouTube - NAZIS SECRET WEAPONS (Part 1)


YouTube - NAZIS SECRET WEAPONS (Part 2)


Also the capture of Berlin was a symbolic sign that the Soviet Union claimed victory over the third Reich and not the Allied forces wich gave the Soviets a psychological advantage in the cold war. The few technology that the US managed to take proves that this was essential to the further development of the cold war, after all it was a Nazi rocket scientist who got the US to the moon and gave them all other technological advantages in rocket science.


What do you think, is this the allies biggest mistake during WWII?

Stalin captured Berlin by unnecessarily sacrificing hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers, all so he could beat the US and Britain to Berlin and be the one who "conquered Hitler". Probably revenge for him being humiliated by Hitler in 1941. He cared little for human lives.

That's about the size of it Elvis.

Though part of me still thinks that Hitler got away at the last minute.

 

[elvis]

Was not taking and occupying the whole of Germany one of the biggest mistakes of the Allied forces? Thanks to German technology the Russians managed to raise their technology to an unprecedented level.

YouTube - NAZIS SECRET WEAPONS (Part 1)


YouTube - NAZIS SECRET WEAPONS (Part 2)


Also the capture of Berlin was a symbolic sign that the Soviet Union claimed victory over the third Reich and not the Allied forces wich gave the Soviets a psychological advantage in the cold war. The few technology that the US managed to take proves that this was essential to the further development of the cold war, after all it was a Nazi rocket scientist who got the US to the moon and gave them all other technological advantages in rocket science.


What do you think, is this the allies biggest mistake during WWII?

Stalin captured Berlin by unnecessarily sacrificing hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers, all so he could beat the US and Britain to Berlin and be the one who "conquered Hitler". Probably revenge for him being humiliated by Hitler in 1941. He cared little for human lives.

That's about the size of it Elvis.

Though part of me still thinks that Hitler got away at the last minute.

Well, Eichmann and Mengele got away, so who knows.

 

[Munin]

What, so you mean that after meeting up with Russia, they should have just attacked Russia? The reason why the Allies didn't take the whole of Germany is because Russia had captured more then its fair share of Germany and had even passed Berlin on their way to destroying the Third Reich. The War was over, there was no need to continue on.

Well no, we all have the technology now that the Nazis had back then. But if we had all the technology back then, then the cold war would probably ended much earlier. A lot of the cold war was a technology race (every time about countering the russians with technological more advanced weapons/...): the space race, the stealth bomber, russian inventions, nuclear weapons, ... . Other then that as a result that we would have been advanced much further in those fields of science (that we captured from the germans) much earlier we would stand much further now in science because we would not have lost time.

No the war was not over, at least that was the feeling after the war. Both the Allies and the Soviet Union have been on the brink of war until the end of the 'cold war'.

The thing is that the allies agreed with the Soviet Union that they should take berlin and the rest was also agreed in the same way: the allied forces had a very weak negotiation, they surrendered much territory to the Russians even before they got to take the territory. I agree that Berlin would have taken many casualties anyway, but in this case the soviets themselves were the reason for it because they behaved like beasts in all German areas. That is why they fought to the death and why germans were much more eager to surrender to the Allies, then they were the russians (they pretty much fought to the death). If the allies would have taken Berlin there was even a chance that they would have surrendered before the capture (the man that had the actual control over the german forces was not hitler at the time, it was a man that would later negotiate the real surrender and already tried to surrender germany to the allied forces but was arrested by a german soldier while he was on his way to the allied frontline). The war effort then determined who had right to what territory, the Russians had pretty much everything they captured by battle. The fact is that the allies pretty much gave Berlin and a lot of German territory as a gift to the soviets because the Allies were so close to those borders that were agreed upon that they had to wait days or weeks for the soviets to catch up (all generals were frustrated that they would just wait for the Soviets to take the rest). This kind of attitude is now blamed generally on the french now, that they are not reliable and they don't want to fight but at that time all the allies behaved like that by letting the soviets do the work and it made them feel superior towards the allies because they know it. When the allies went to berlin for the first time the Soviet forces acted with disrespect towards the allied forces, because they knew they took Berlin and they claimed the victory over Germany and not the Allies.

So I think it would have been better for the allies if they would have taken more of germany and even Berlin, because it would have shortened the time of the cold war in our favor. And it would have resulted that some of the technology we have invented just recently, would already be finished a couple of years ago thx to the german technology we would have discovered and not needed to reinvent because we lost years by reinventing things that the germans already had invented. Therefor I think it is a mistake, even though we have won both the cold "war" and WWII.

 

[Munin]

Stalin captured Berlin by unnecessarily sacrificing hundreds of thousands of Russian soldiers, all so he could beat the US and Britain to Berlin and be the one who "conquered Hitler". Probably revenge for him being humiliated by Hitler in 1941. He cared little for human lives.

Well it is actually wrong to assume that the Soviet Union has beaten the Allies in the race to Berlin, simply because the allies were waiting at the finish-line of the race for the Soviets to cross it.

If the allies would have attacked Berlin then more people would have surrendered then when fought with the Soviets. The Soviets had a resistance of people who fought to the death because of their own actions in German territories, while most Nazis were actually hoping that the allies would take Berlin. They commander in chief (not hitler) hoped it even so much that he himself tried to surrender all German forces only to the allies (he was arrested by one of his own soldiers for high treason on a border crossing just before the frontline) so the Soviets could keep their dirty hands of Berlin.

 

[Kazikli Bey]

Well no, we all have the technology now that the Nazis had back then. But if we had all the technology back then, then the cold war would probably ended much earlier. A lot of the cold war was a technology race (every time about countering the russians with technological more advanced weapons/...): the space race, the stealth bomber, russian inventions, nuclear weapons, ... . Other then that as a result that we would have been advanced much further in those fields of science (that we captured from the germans) much earlier we would stand much further now in science because we would not have lost time.

But you did end up having much of that technology anyway, the Russians only got some of it much later then what the American's did, i mean, it was America who dropped the first a-bomb and the Russians only got that technology when it was smuggled to them (if memory serves).

No the war was not over, at least that was the feeling after the war. Both the Allies and the Soviet Union have been on the brink of war until the end of the 'cold war'.

After WWII, the feeling was that the war was most definitely over, one of the bloodiest wars in history had just been finished, no one wanted to fight any more.

The thing is that the allies agreed with the Soviet Union that they should take berlin and the rest was also agreed in the same way: the allied forces had a very weak negotiation, they surrendered much territory to the Russians even before they got to take the territory.

The Soviets had actually taken more ground then what the Allies had. Think about it, the Allies went from the French Coast Line to Berlin, the Russians had fought all the way from Stalingrad and Petrograd all the way to Berlin and even past that.

I agree that Berlin would have taken many casualties anyway, but in this case the soviets themselves were the reason for it because they behaved like beasts in all German areas. That is why they fought to the death and why germans were much more eager to surrender to the Allies, then they were the russians (they pretty much fought to the death).

The Russians behaved liked beasts because that was how the Nazis treated them, without remorse, in the same way, the Soviets showed the Nazis just how brutal they could be.

The war effort then determined who had right to what territory, the Russians had pretty much everything they captured by battle. The fact is that the allies pretty much gave Berlin and a lot of German territory as a gift to the soviets because the Allies were so close to those borders that were agreed upon that they had to wait days or weeks for the soviets to catch up (all generals were frustrated that they would just wait for the Soviets to take the rest). So I think it would have been better for the allies if they would have taken more of germany and even Berlin, because it would have shortened the time of the cold war in our favor. .

It's the fault of the Allies that they had not taken more, they had much less terrain to cross then what the Soviets had done and somehow the Soviets beat them not only to Berlin but past it as well. Russia fought hard to obtain as much as possible because that was the third time in recent history that they had been attacked and attacked brutally (1812 and WWI being the other two instances), they did not want a fourth repeat of that history.