The Afghan Miracle; Why Isn't This Stunning US Success Appreciated?

NATO AIR

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Jun 25, 2004
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its inspiring to realize all the liberals, mass media and most nations of the world took time this week to ignore the swearing in of the afghan president karzai, its great how we get absolutely no credit for a miracle in resucing afghanistan

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53781-2004Dec9.html
The Afghan Miracle
Why isn't this stunning U.S. success appreciated?

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, December 10, 2004; Page A37

"Miracle begets yawn" has been the American reaction to the inauguration of Hamid Karzai as president of Afghanistan. Before our astonishing success in Afghanistan goes completely down the memory hole, let's recall some very recent history.

For almost a decade before Sept. 11, we did absolutely nothing about Afghanistan. A few cruise missiles hurled into empty tents, followed by expressions of satisfaction about the "message" we had sent. It was, in fact, a message of utter passivity and unseriousness.

Then comes our Pearl Harbor, and the sleeping giant awakens. Within 100 days, al Qaeda is routed and the Taliban overthrown. Then the first election in Afghanistan's history. Now the inauguration of a deeply respected democrat who, upon being sworn in as the legitimate president of his country, thanks America for its liberation.

This in Afghanistan, which only three years ago was not just hostile but untouchable. What do liberals have to say about this singular achievement by the Bush administration? That Afghanistan is growing poppies.

Good grief. This is news? "Afghanistan grows poppies" is the sun rising in the east. "Afghanistan inaugurates democratically elected president" is the sun rising in the west. Afghanistan has always grown poppies. What is President Bush supposed to do? Send 100,000 GIs to eradicate the crop and incite a popular rebellion?

The other complaint is that Karzai really does not rule the whole country. Again, the sun rises in the east. Afghanistan has never had a government that controlled the whole country. It has always had a central government weak by Western standards.

But Afghanistan's decentralized system works. Karzai controls Kabul, most of the major cities and much in between. And he is successfully leveraging his power to gradually extend his authority as he creates entirely new federal institutions and an entirely new military.

Again, what should Bush have done? Send another 100,000 GIs to put down warlords with local roots, local legitimacy and a ton of firepower?

What has happened in Afghanistan is nothing short of a miracle. Who is responsible for it? The New York Times gives the major credit to "the Afghan people" with their "courage and commitment." Courage and commitment there was, but the courage and commitment were curiously imperceptible until this administration conceived a radical war plan, executed it brilliantly, liberated the country and created from scratch the structures of democracy.

The interesting question is: If we succeeded in Afghanistan, why haven't we in Iraq? One would have thought Afghanistan, with its obviously less-developed human and industrial infrastructure, to be far less conducive to democracy. It is more tribal, more primitive and has even less history of modern political development.

Yet that may have been an advantage. Iraq has for decades been exposed to the ideas of political modernism -- fascism and socialism as transmuted through Baathism (heavily influenced by the European political winds of the 1920s and '30s) to which Saddam Hussein added the higher totalitarianism of his hero, Stalin. This history has succeeded in devaluing and delegitimizing secular ideologies, including liberal-democratic ones. In contrast, Afghanistan had suffered under years of appalling theocratic rule, which helped to legitimize the kind of secularist democracy that Karzai represents.

Furthermore, Afghanistan had the ironic advantage of having just come out of a quarter-century of civil war. As in Europe after World War II, the exhaustion that follows is conducive to pursuing power by peaceful political means. In contrast, Iraq's Baathists, fresh from 30 years of unimpeded looting and killing, are quite prepared to ignite a civil war in pursuit of the power and privileges they have lost.

And, finally, Afghanistan's neighbors have largely kept out of the postwar reconstruction. The most powerful and active neighbor, Pakistan, was made an ally in this effort and has supported the democracy project.

Iraq's neighbors are hostile to the United States and to our democratic project. The Baathist insurgents are heavily supported by Syria, from which some of the sheltered leadership provides funding and operational directives for guerrilla actions in Iraq. Behind Syria stands the Arab League, composed mostly of Sunni monarchs and dictators, carrying water for Iraq's Sunni minority, which ruled for 80 years.

On the other side is Iran, funneling money, fighters and, by some reports, even voters (waves of immigrants) to help elect not only a Shiite government but a theocratic Shiite government. As Iraq becomes the cockpit for the regional rivalries, internal divisions are greatly exacerbated.

This does not mean we cannot succeed. It does mean that Iraq will be very difficult. It also means that against all expectations, Afghanistan is the first graduate of the Bush Doctrine of spreading democracy in rather hostile places. A success so remarkable and an end so improbable merit at least a moment of celebration.

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Just like they ignored the Berlin Wall coming down - at least as much as they possibly could. :lalala: This is history in the making and GWB will be remembered as a great president right alongside Reagan. That is, if we can prevent them from rewriting our history books...
 
election. Karzai lived in Cambridge before he was called back to Afghanistan; I know his old hangouts, the Afghani restaurants here. It's an amazing accomplishment to hold an election in a society as complex as Afghanistan. Of course, don't assume that this is now a complete democracy--we're tied to some pretty rough local bullies there right now, and many areas remain lawless.

Screamer, you've got to let got this idea that liberals want these war efforts to fail. I totally supported our actions in Afghanistan, and even though I remain against the Iraq adventure, I deeply hope we succeed there.

Mariner.
 
Mariner said:
election. Karzai lived in Cambridge before he was called back to Afghanistan; I know his old hangouts, the Afghani restaurants here. It's an amazing accomplishment to hold an election in a society as complex as Afghanistan. Of course, don't assume that this is now a complete democracy--we're tied to some pretty rough local bullies there right now, and many areas remain lawless.

Screamer, you've got to let got this idea that liberals want these war efforts to fail. I totally supported our actions in Afghanistan, and even though I remain against the Iraq adventure, I deeply hope we succeed there.

Mariner.

Remaining against the invasion of Iraq seriously dilutes any effect that your desire for success in Iraq has.
 
GWB seems the most "never admit I'm wrong" person on planet earth right now. Liberals never admit they're wrong? I think many liberals agree that parts of the "War on Poverty" were a mistake, as were modern ideas of urban renewal. Just two examples.

Dillo, I'll return to the analogy I used earlier: If the fire chief orders the firefighters into a house, I can support the firefighters fully--even if I believe there was a bigger, more important fire happening elsewhere, and therefore question the chief's judgement.

You can find plenty of Volvos in Cambridge decorated with a Kerry/Edwards sticker and a "Support Our Troops" ribbon. It's not a contradiction.

Mariner.
 
Mariner said:
GWB seems the most "never admit I'm wrong" person on planet earth right now. Liberals never admit they're wrong? I think many liberals agree that parts of the "War on Poverty" were a mistake, as were modern ideas of urban renewal. Just two examples.

Dillo, I'll return to the analogy I used earlier: If the fire chief orders the firefighters into a house, I can support the firefighters fully--even if I believe there was a bigger, more important fire happening elsewhere, and therefore question the chief's judgement.

You can find plenty of Volvos in Cambridge decorated with a Kerry/Edwards sticker and a "Support Our Troops" ribbon. It's not a contradiction.

Mariner.

It's a total contradiction. You insult them when you say they're dying for no good reason.
 
Mariner said:
GWB seems the most "never admit I'm wrong" person on planet earth right now. Liberals never admit they're wrong? I think many liberals agree that parts of the "War on Poverty" were a mistake, as were modern ideas of urban renewal. Just two examples.

Dillo, I'll return to the analogy I used earlier: If the fire chief orders the firefighters into a house, I can support the firefighters fully--even if I believe there was a bigger, more important fire happening elsewhere, and therefore question the chief's judgement.

You can find plenty of Volvos in Cambridge decorated with a Kerry/Edwards sticker and a "Support Our Troops" ribbon. It's not a contradiction.

Mariner.

It simply means there are a lot of hypocrites in Cambridge. Why should GWB lay himself open to attack when the left has falsely accused him of being wrong ALL THE TIME ?
 
to call our efforts in afghanistan a success. I supported our determination to go after the collaborators that attacted us on 9-11. I think that we could have done this with an effective intelligence infiltration that may have even exposed bin laden to capture before now,( unfortunately our intelligence community has lost our confidence) but lacking that means I guess power and might was a best second solution. I think the elections were a real postive step for afghanistan and I hope that our good intentions are successful.
We have supported regimes in the past that have not always proved to be the best choices Marcos, the Shaw, even Saddam to name a few. I hope Karzai is an honorable person and a benefit to his country as well as the world. Yes, I think we should give credit where credit is due so I think to be fair I will be optimistic for this new government.
 
Considering that the country has been at war since 1979, I think that the fact they held free elections without incident is a major achievement. After all, they had less problems during their elections then we did with ours and we've been doing it for 200+ years.
 
were "dying for no good reason?" Don't put words into my mouth. My analogy includes the idea that there is indeed a fire in the less important house, i.e. Iraq. The judgement I, and many others (in fact, now a majority of the U.S. public) questions is whether this was the most important fire to put out right now.

I strongly resent the repeated assertion on this website that people who opposed the war therefore are unpatriotic or do not love and support our troops. The point of the firefighter analogy is to show you that there is no contradiction.

Can't you imagine a war started by a liberal that conservatives might not support, or do conservatives support any war? If you opposed a liberal-started war, I'd never accuse you of being unpatriotic or not supporting our troops.

The amount of money we've spent on Iraq so far would insure every uninsured American and provide every child preschool--twice over. That would have been a far better use of the money, in my opinion.

Mariner
 
Mariner,
Wars are not started by liberals or conservatives, they are started by enemies of the United States. The response from liberals (usually "Golly, what did we do to make them mad and how can we change?") is very different from the conservative response (usually "You called down the thunder, Here it is!!").

As for the money being better spent on insurance and children's preschool, I'm sure Osama Bin Laden would love to give you insurance and sent your kids to preschool. They would love to learn the Koran by heart and hear how America is the most evil country in the world. Juding by your posts though, they probably already hear the last part.
 
Mariner said:
Can't you imagine a war started by a liberal that conservatives might not support, or do conservatives support any war? If you opposed a liberal-started war, I'd never accuse you of being unpatriotic or not supporting our troops.


Mariner

that was kosovo, and bosnia to an extent for bill clinton....
 
Miracle, I most certainly doubt it. I am a democrat, therefore that makes me a liberal; so with that being said, I'll make my response from a liberal perspective...

The "liberals" are very HAPPY for Afghanistan; it was the RIGHT WAR, AT THE RIGHT PLACE, AT THE RIGHT TIME. However, I wouldn't celebrate so quickly if I were you.

The terrorists who'd trained the men behind 9/11 are still there, the man who'd financed the attack may still be there. As far as the liberals were concerned, there were little to no objections to the invasion of Afghanistan; for we all were convinced that we had to invade Afghanistan as part of the war on terrorism.

The Liberals objected to Iraq because there were no solid evidence to suggest the existence of terrorist activity or WMDs; such an invasion would leave us in the role of a "rogue" nation, which was the last thing we needed on our plate.

Son, the war on Iraq and the war on Afghanistan are two different wars; study them both before you tell everyone here that the liberal's objections to the war on Iraq meant that they'd objected to the war on terrorism.

Oh, by the way; I heard that the "opium for terrorism" stock had went up on their stock exchange this month. A little birdy told me.

As far as the Berlin Wall, son I was there at the Berlin wall; this was no BERLIN WALL. The "Cold War" was a faceoff with an opponent of near equal power.

If Ronald Reagan were alive today and was alongside John F. Kennedy, both would say the same thing as to why they'd won their conflicts..."Because we were more Lucky than Good"
 
hylandrdet said:
If Ronald Reagan were alive today and was alongside John F. Kennedy, both would say the same thing as to why they'd won their conflicts..."Because we were more Lucky than Good"

That and they had the fortitude to stick to their guns when everyone else is telling them they're wrong. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
 

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