The 36-hour work week/3-day weekend

[BlueGin]

Wait... there are people that only 40 hours in a week?
Slackers.

I used to work 50. 40 reg hrs plus 5 hours mandatory OT per week... and another 5 hours at night once a week.

Got very old and burnt me out. A flexible 40 hour week was one of the things I looked for when getting a new job. I'm a lot happier now...not to mention healthier. I'm sure my productivity is better too.

 

[TGN]

I think the issue of better wages and shorter hours are inextricably linked. I also think the new slogan should be something like "Livable Wages, Reasonable Hours!"

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Read the Four Hour Work Week.

Really.

 

[Stephanie]

so what they're pushing is work less and have the company make up the difference in pay

and the people on government dole in France are?

 

[Avorysuds]

The last thing the poor, put upon American businessman needs is to pay workers more for less time on the job.

I mean don't they already do more than enough for us as it is?

You know, as someone with employee's but also political I see where you're coming from... But simply put, you're dumb as fuk yo~

Where is my raise or payment for 30-40-50-60 or even 70 hour work weeks? What do I get for coming in at 5AM and leaving at past 7pm? Oh, I get nothing but what I can make because shit luck for me, I'm a rich ass, lazy, fat, pin stripe suit wearing freeloader business owner. Mmmmmmy gawd I should feel so lucky to have employee's actualy show up on time and not want to leave early.... Well, shit I guess I got crap luck.

 

[guno]

We've officially had the 40-hour week since the early part of the 20th century thanks to courageous and determined efforts of the labor movement during that era.

Advances in productivity haven't led to a substantial increase in wages nor reduction in hours worked for the average employee. An increase in wages in proportion with productivity should help boost an argument for reducing the work week from the now standard 5-day week/8-hour day to 4-day week/9-hour day. Or we could just make Fridays a half-day. Or turn Thursdays and Fridays into 6-hour days with an adjusted wage increase.

People keep talking about how much more productive workers are than they used to be and saying they should earn higher wages because of the increased productivity.

But why are they more productive? Are workers working harder? Are they more skilled than they used to be?

No.

In fact they usually work less hard and are less skilled than they were because their jobs have been simplified by technology and investments made by the company.

So now you want companies to not only invest money in technologies and work models to increase productivity, but also pay more for the labor from workers who are probably doing less actual work?

Next post: "but... but... but... evil profits!"

 

[Avorysuds]

You know I'm wondering and maybe I have it wrong.

2 people

person 1 makes 100$ a day
person 2 makes 1,000$ a day

Lets say you decide you will pay... er force business's to pay person 1 10$ more a day... Whelp, you have to pay the 1,000$ a day person 100$ more a day to be fair by %.... While I understand this logical scenario can't exists in the mindless progressive welfare group of bitching babies (because one would be *too* well off, unless they are a Democrat).. Just pretend one person makes 85$ a day and the other makes 190$ a day. It would DESTORY an employer to give people more money for less time if they make any real money.

 

[guno]

You know I'm wondering and maybe I have it wrong.

2 people

person 1 makes 100$ a day
person 2 makes 1,000$ a day

Lets say you decide you will pay... er force business's to pay person 1 10$ more a day... Whelp, you have to pay the 1,000$ a day person 100$ more a day to be fair by %.... While I understand this logical scenario can't exists in the mindless progressive welfare group of bitching babies (because one would be *too* well off, unless they are a Democrat).. Just pretend one person makes 85$ a day and the other makes 190$ a day. It would DESTORY an employer to give people more money for less time if they make any real money.

A capitalist is employing a worker to make a pen. The cost of raw materials and overhead was $10. He sells this pen in the end for $20. So with the cost of raw materials we have now got $10 left. So the worker makes the pen all by himself whilst the boss is away somewhere else, let say in the office of the factory doing whatever. The end of the day comes, the worker has made the pen. The boss takes this pen and wants to sell it (and does for $20 as mentioned above). To pay him for his work, he gives him $3. So where did the rest of the money go ? There is $7 unaccounted for. It didn't go the worker. It went to the boss, as profit. The boss has extracted so called surplus value.

 

[Missourian]

You know I'm wondering and maybe I have it wrong.

2 people

person 1 makes 100$ a day
person 2 makes 1,000$ a day

Lets say you decide you will pay... er force business's to pay person 1 10$ more a day... Whelp, you have to pay the 1,000$ a day person 100$ more a day to be fair by %.... While I understand this logical scenario can't exists in the mindless progressive welfare group of bitching babies (because one would be *too* well off, unless they are a Democrat).. Just pretend one person makes 85$ a day and the other makes 190$ a day. It would DESTORY an employer to give people more money for less time if they make any real money.

A capitalist is employing a worker to make a pen. The cost of raw materials and overhead was $10. He sells this pen in the end for $20. So with the cost of raw materials we have now got $10 left. So the worker makes the pen all by himself whilst the boss is away somewhere else, let say in the office of the factory doing whatever. The end of the day comes, the worker has made the pen. The boss takes this pen and wants to sell it (and does for $20 as mentioned above). To pay him for his work, he gives him $3. So where did the rest of the money go ? There is $7 unaccounted for. It didn't go the worker. It went to the boss, as profit. The boss has extracted so called surplus value.

Out of the seven dollars, the boss pays himself $2, the shareholders get $1, future expansion, so the workers unemployed brother can get a job takes a buck and research and development gets 50 cents.

The governments 35% corporate tax swallows up the rest.

 

[anotherlife]

The French have a 30 hour work week, and their economy is better than the USA. Proof is that with those few hours their GDP is equal to the USA, plus all their quality statistics, such as average individual happiness is 10 times better than the USA.

But I think that employment is a relic of a by-gone industrial age. Now that everything is automated, even robotic trucks are forecasted to enter the highways in 10 years, a workweek and employment is just wishful thinking.

The general problem with any employment anyways is that it is not like a contract. It is a take-it-or-leave it, has no room for negotiations. That's why unions used to be important, to balance this. But unions are usually controlled by organized crime to control the industry, so there is really no future in any employment.

Without employment then we have millions of wannabe contractors biting up each others' foot for a dime. I think the workweek problem therefore is a much larger problem, a national currency management problem, and international trade balance problem, and mainly the problem about the national governments' priorities between government insiders and average citizens.

And who builds and maintains all these robots? Automation just shifts jobs. It doesn't destroy them. As long as there is money to be made, people will always create more jobs out of this evil greed we always hear about. If you want to kill jobs, make hiring people too expensive. If you can't make a profit, why create a job?

Yes, shifts is but with a huge down-factor, I guess by 10:1. Plus to have those shifted jobs, however few, you need access to technology, which is geography specific and now outside the USA. To illustrate, Ford employed ~1 million workers in the early 20th century. Google employs max. 1000. So that 10:1 is rather 1000:1.

The French have a 30 hour work week, and their economy is better than the USA. Proof is that with those few hours their GDP is equal to the USA, plus all their quality statistics, such as average individual happiness is 10 times better than the USA.

But I think that employment is a relic of a by-gone industrial age. Now that everything is automated, even robotic trucks are forecasted to enter the highways in 10 years, a workweek and employment is just wishful thinking.

The general problem with any employment anyways is that it is not like a contract. It is a take-it-or-leave it, has no room for negotiations. That's why unions used to be important, to balance this. But unions are usually controlled by organized crime to control the industry, so there is really no future in any employment.

Without employment then we have millions of wannabe contractors biting up each others' foot for a dime. I think the workweek problem therefore is a much larger problem, a national currency management problem, and international trade balance problem, and mainly the problem about the national governments' priorities between government insiders and average citizens.

The GDP of france is nowhere close to the United states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

This is nominal GDP in the link. To do a real comparison, first we need to discount the speculative paper trading volumes, which is ~40 % in the UK economy, ~20 % in France, and ~85-90% in the USA.

Wait... there are people that only 40 hours in a week?
Slackers.

I used to work 50. 40 reg hrs plus 5 hours mandatory OT per week... and another 5 hours at night once a week.

Got very old and burnt me out. A flexible 40 hour week was one of the things I looked for when getting a new job. I'm a lot happier now...not to mention healthier. I'm sure my productivity is better too.

Try to tell this to Americans. They think they all are just temporarily embarrassed millioners. Americans never ask where their productivity should go.

I think the issue of better wages and shorter hours are inextricably linked. I also think the new slogan should be something like "Livable Wages, Reasonable Hours!"

Yes, but then you get labelled a communist. Everyone who wants to negotiate his pay gets labelled a communist. We are expected to blindly accept what the controllers of the currency and legislation put us into.

so what they're pushing is work less and have the company make up the difference in pay
and the people on government dole in France are?

Well, nobody by default makes money ever by working. Profits are a function of asset ownership, not work. Work factors in only because the assets need energizing to produce the profits. What you are paid is not for your work but for how long it takes to find your replacement. And that is entirely under the control of those who control your government.

 

[The Rabbi]

We know countries become richer by their people working fewer hours. Right?

Another dumb idea promoted by people who dont have a clue.

 

[BlueGin]

Well, nobody by default makes money ever by working. Profits are a function of asset ownership, not work. Work factors in only because the assets need energizing to produce the profits. What you are paid is not for your work but for how long it takes to find your replacement.

True statement. Unfortuantely we now live in a disposable society with the "everything can be replaced" mentality. Nothing holds value anymore...not even tenured employee's and their years of knowledge.

Employers don't understand or care about the complexities or quality of the job performed... as long as they have a live body sitting in the chair for 8 hrs a day.

 

[whitehall]

We are in the worst GDP downturn in a century and real unemployment is in the double digits and you want to do what?

 

[beagle9]

I would love to have a 40 hour work week instead of my usual 50.

Yes it has become a problem for many, where as the work week has expanded in hours for the investors to make more and more money, while the wages went stagnant for to many years in all of it. I remember in construction, most all were working a 40 hour work week that consisted of 10 hours a day 4 days a week. This worked well for the workers who most were from out of town working their specialty talent in that industry. This allowed them to get back home on Friday evening, and spend Saturday and Sunday with their families. This was a good thing, but greed began spreading as hours increased all the way to Saturday, where as threats were issued next that if the workers didn't like it, then they could just find them something else to do. Then the illegals or migrants were used as leverage to change the system and replace those Americans who wanted to have a decent job in life, and a better balance of their family life in the situation as well. This is also where the lies were told that the Americans wouldn't work, and these illegals or migrants were just doing the job's that Americans won't do. Greed has changed everything, and it has just about destroyed the American construction worker families in America.

 

[The Rabbi]

I would love to have a 40 hour work week instead of my usual 50.

Yes it has become a problem for many, where as the work week has expanded in hours for the investors to make more and more money, while the wages went stagnant for to many years in all of it. I remember in construction, most all were working a 40 hour work week that consisted of 10 hours a day 4 days a week. This worked well for the workers who most were from out of town working their specialty talent in that industry. This allowed them to get back home on Friday evening, and spend Saturday and Sunday with their families. This was a good thing, but greed began spreading as hours increased all the way to Saturday, where as threats were issued next that if the workers didn't like it, then they could just find them something else to do. Then the illegals or migrants were used as leverage to change the system and replace those Americans who wanted to have a decent job in life, and a better balance of their family life in the situation as well. This is also where the lies were told that the Americans wouldn't work, and these illegals or migrants were just doing the job's that Americans won't do. Greed has changed everything, and it has just about destroyed the American construction worker families in America.

Hint; If you can be replaced by an illiterate migrant worker you're doing it wrong.

 

[initforme]

Working for low wages is the problem. Everyone having a degree ensures higher wages. Workers don't need to give their lives to the company. Punch in punch out.... unless you are getting at least $20 an hour.

 

[The Rabbi]

Working for low wages is the problem. Everyone having a degree ensures higher wages. Workers don't need to give their lives to the company. Punch in punch out.... unless you are getting at least $20 an hour.

Um, the underemployment/unemployment rate for college grads to age 25 is almost 50%.

 

[Mathbud1]

We've officially had the 40-hour week since the early part of the 20th century thanks to courageous and determined efforts of the labor movement during that era.

Advances in productivity haven't led to a substantial increase in wages nor reduction in hours worked for the average employee. An increase in wages in proportion with productivity should help boost an argument for reducing the work week from the now standard 5-day week/8-hour day to 4-day week/9-hour day. Or we could just make Fridays a half-day. Or turn Thursdays and Fridays into 6-hour days with an adjusted wage increase.

People keep talking about how much more productive workers are than they used to be and saying they should earn higher wages because of the increased productivity.

But why are they more productive? Are workers working harder? Are they more skilled than they used to be?

No.

In fact they usually work less hard and are less skilled than they were because their jobs have been simplified by technology and investments made by the company.

So now you want companies to not only invest money in technologies and work models to increase productivity, but also pay more for the labor from workers who are probably doing less actual work?

Next post: "but... but... but... evil profits!"

I've seen the chart. It doesn't change what I said.

 

[beagle9]

I would love to have a 40 hour work week instead of my usual 50.

Yes it has become a problem for many, where as the work week has expanded in hours for the investors to make more and more money, while the wages went stagnant for to many years in all of it. I remember in construction, most all were working a 40 hour work week that consisted of 10 hours a day 4 days a week. This worked well for the workers who most were from out of town working their specialty talent in that industry. This allowed them to get back home on Friday evening, and spend Saturday and Sunday with their families. This was a good thing, but greed began spreading as hours increased all the way to Saturday, where as threats were issued next that if the workers didn't like it, then they could just find them something else to do. Then the illegals or migrants were used as leverage to change the system and replace those Americans who wanted to have a decent job in life, and a better balance of their family life in the situation as well. This is also where the lies were told that the Americans wouldn't work, and these illegals or migrants were just doing the job's that Americans won't do. Greed has changed everything, and it has just about destroyed the American construction worker families in America.

Hint; If you can be replaced by an illiterate migrant worker you're doing it wrong.

Why don't you just go on and say what you want to say, and that is if one can be replaced by an illiterate black slave says the plantation owner, then you are doing it all wrong. Same thing isn't it ?

 

[The Rabbi]

Yes it has become a problem for many, where as the work week has expanded in hours for the investors to make more and more money, while the wages went stagnant for to many years in all of it. I remember in construction, most all were working a 40 hour work week that consisted of 10 hours a day 4 days a week. This worked well for the workers who most were from out of town working their specialty talent in that industry. This allowed them to get back home on Friday evening, and spend Saturday and Sunday with their families. This was a good thing, but greed began spreading as hours increased all the way to Saturday, where as threats were issued next that if the workers didn't like it, then they could just find them something else to do. Then the illegals or migrants were used as leverage to change the system and replace those Americans who wanted to have a decent job in life, and a better balance of their family life in the situation as well. This is also where the lies were told that the Americans wouldn't work, and these illegals or migrants were just doing the job's that Americans won't do. Greed has changed everything, and it has just about destroyed the American construction worker families in America.

Hint; If you can be replaced by an illiterate migrant worker you're doing it wrong.

Why don't you just go on and say what you want to say, and that is if one can be replaced by an illiterate black slave says the plantation owner, then you are doing it all wrong. Same thing isn't it ?

Not exactly but the tenor is right.
Yes, if your job skills suck so bad that someone who didnt get the benefit of an American education, can hardly speak English, and has minimal skills can replace you then the problem is not immigration. The problem is you.