"That will never happen!" they keep yelling about the thing that, you know, keeps happening

[hadit]

I'm fairly sure there was no one naked in this example.

That is but one example of negative things that can happen when we allow this.

I have no idea who told you what. Again, I have not stated a position but rather I am discussing the logic to make the argument made here.

Do you think that the desire to be a women is synonymous with homosexuality? The logic I'm using is that we will see more rapes and assaults if we continue to allow these boys access to vulnerable girls. Why is that even controversial?

 

[pknopp]

That is but one example of negative things that can happen when we allow this.

I doesn't take nudity for men to rape and assault women.

Do you think that the desire to be a women is synonymous with homosexuality? The logic I'm using is that we will see more rapes and assaults if we continue to allow these boys access to vulnerable girls. Why is that even controversial?

I do not think one example of something proves anything. I also believe those who have been made fun of and demeaned can have anger issues.

This is a serious discussion that the country needs to have without the hate and vitriol attached to it but it seems we are incapable.

 

[JGalt]

"I want to see naked girls. If I pretend to be a girl, I can see them every day", said some hormone addled teenaged boys who couldn't get any attention from girls.

"I want to beat up girls. If I pretend to be a girl, I can beat them up every day", said some misogynist teenaged boys who couldn't suppress their hostility toward girls.

 

[DukeU]

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Reactions:pknopp

Transgender women in women’s restrooms: A purely imagined harm​

Fears around gender-neutral toilets are all in the mind​

 

[pknopp]

• View attachment 738507

Reactions:pknopp

Transgender women in women’s restrooms: A purely imagined harm​

Fears around gender-neutral toilets are all in the mind​

DukeU: Men around women is a purely imagined harm. Nothing negative will ever happen.

 

[DukeU]

DukeU: Men around women is a purely imagined harm. Nothing negative will ever happen.

I know. Let's let them use the women's restroom, and join the women's sports teams.

 

[pknopp]

I know. Let's let them use the women's restroom, and join the women's sports teams.

Again, I am NOT arguing that, just in the logic used here.

 

[hadit]

I doesn't take nudity for men to rape and assault women.

No, it does not, but THINK, we're putting boys in with vulnerable girls. In that group of boys will be those who get pushed over the edge by being in a room with naked girls. It's an open invitation for abuse.

I do not think one example of something proves anything. I also believe those who have been made fun of and demeaned can have anger issues.

This is a serious discussion that the country needs to have without the hate and vitriol attached to it but it seems we are incapable.

This is not the only case of a girl being assaulted by a boy claiming to be a girl, and there will be more.

AGAIN, why take steps that we KNOW will increase the number of girls being raped and assaulted? WHY? We're not talking about adults who are more in control of themselves, we're talking about hormone addled teenagers, many of whom have not had the benefits of strong masculine guidance by men in society who teach them how to treat girls with respect.

 

[pknopp]

No, it does not, but THINK, we're putting boys in with vulnerable girls. In that group of boys will be those who get pushed over the edge by being in a room with naked girls. It's an open invitation for abuse.

Now maybe we can get somewhere. Do I think it's a good idea to put adolescent boys attracted to girls who may be naked together? No, I fully understand the dynamics there.

Was that the case here? There is no evidence of that.

This is not the only case of a girl being assaulted by a boy claiming to be a girl, and there will be more.

And there are slews of examples of boys assaulting girls every day.

AGAIN, why take steps that we KNOW will increase the number of girls being raped and assaulted? WHY? We're not talking about adults who are more in control of themselves, we're talking about hormone addled teenagers, many of whom have not had the benefits of strong masculine guidance by men in society who teach them how to treat girls with respect.

I'm not aware it will make the issue increase. As far as I know this person did NOT assault this girl over a sexual attraction. It would appear to me they felt excluded.

We have seen kids shoot up schools over that.

 

[hadit]

Now maybe we can get somewhere. Do I think it's a good idea to put adolescent boys attracted to girls who may be naked together? No, I fully understand the dynamics there.

Was that the case here? There is no evidence of that.

The mere fact that he had access to girls where they were vulnerable is a problem.

And there are slews of examples of boys assaulting girls every day.

And I don't want to make it easier for them to do it.

I'm not aware it will make the issue increase. As far as I know this person did NOT assault this girl over a sexual attraction. It would appear to me they felt excluded.

We have seen kids shoot up schools over that.

And maybe the girls were teasing him. Maybe they were upset that a boy was allowed to be in the same room where they were naked and vulnerable, and they couldn't do anything about it because they would be labelled and ostracized. I just don't believe the right answer is for schools to put boys and girls together, naked, in the same rooms. It's tough enough to be an extremely self-conscious teenager forced to be naked with members of the same sex, much more with members of the opposite sex.

 

[pknopp]

The mere fact that he had access to girls where they were vulnerable is a problem.

IMO depends. Your facts are not in evidence. I know women who have zero issues undressing around gay men.

And I don't want to make it easier for them to do it.

And maybe the girls were teasing him. Maybe they were upset that a boy was allowed to be in the same room where they were naked and vulnerable, and they couldn't do anything about it because they would be labelled and ostracized. I just don't believe the right answer is for schools to put boys and girls together, naked, in the same rooms. It's tough enough to be an extremely self-conscious teenager forced to be naked with members of the same sex, much more with members of the opposite sex.

Is the girls feelings important here also? Absolutely, which is why I said we need to have this conversation without the hate and vitriol (from both sides) but seem unable to.

 

[DukeU]

IMO depends. Your facts are not in evidence. I know women who have zero issues undressing around gay men.

OP is about boys and girls, not men and women.

Although I don't think any male should be allowed in a restroom with a female.

 

[pknopp]

OP is about boys and girls, not men and women.

Although I don't think any male should be allowed in a restroom with a female.

And we should have a discussion around that in a sane rational way. What you get otherwise is kids shooting up schools.

 

[hadit]

IMO depends. Your facts are not in evidence. I know women who have zero issues undressing around gay men.

In this case, we're talking about teen-aged girls being naked with boys who are NOT automatically assumed to be gay. See, "I know women" doesn't address all the girls who were NOT asked if they were okay with having boys in their locker rooms while they were naked.

Is the girls feelings important here also? Absolutely, which is why I said we need to have this conversation without the hate and vitriol (from both sides) but seem unable to.

Okay, but we also have to stop assigning hate and vitriol when mere opposition to an idea is raised. There has to be a better solution than just tossing a boy who claims he feels like a girl (but is still attracted to girls) into a locker room where the girls are naked and telling the girls they have to accept it or be labelled a bigot and ostracized.

 

[pknopp]

In this case, we're talking about teen-aged girls being naked with boys who are NOT automatically assumed to be gay. See, "I know women" doesn't address all the girls who were NOT asked if they were okay with having boys in their locker rooms while they were naked.

As I've noted many times, we do not know the specifics here.

Okay, but we also have to stop assigning hate and vitriol when mere opposition to an idea is raised. There has to be a better solution than just tossing a boy who claims he feels like a girl (but is still attracted to girls) into a locker room where the girls are naked and telling the girls they have to accept it or be labelled a bigot and ostracized.

All which needs to be worked out. Do I support putting boys who like to dress like girls but are still attracted to girls in a locker room with them? No. But we need to be able to have a rational discussion but being so divided as a country we are unable to.

We will post prayers and thoughts when the kids shoots up a school.

 

[Ralph Norton]

I know women who have zero issues undressing around gay men.

Where does this occur?
How do the women know they're gay?

 

[pknopp]

Where does this occur?
How do the women know they're gay?

They are friends.

An anecdotal story is only that but I recall reading in one of the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issues that had the models with painted suits how the model wanted to make sure the artist painting on her was gay.

 

[DukeU]

And we should have a discussion around that in a sane rational way. What you get otherwise is kids shooting up schools.

Discussions have happened and laws passed. Here we are discussing the results of people ignoring, what most would consider common sense.

 

[pknopp]

Discussions have happened and laws passed. Here we are discussing the results of people ignoring, what most would consider common sense.

Two people get into issues every single day, every single minute. They could have got into it because they didn't want the person sitting with them at lunch.

 

[Ralph Norton]

They are friends.

An anecdotal story is only that but I recall reading in one of the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issues that had the models with painted suits how the model wanted to make sure the artist painting on her was gay.

Don't want to belabor the point but did SI have the artists sign a release stating they were gay?
Would that be enforceable?