Thank You Seven Years of Bush VooDoo Eek Anomics

[Skull Pilot]

I guess Skull Pilot's projections would hold true for some that already have disability insurance that is portable between employers.

Your employer doesn't matter if you own your own DI policy

 

[Dogger]

Actually if you read my post, you would have seen that i used 10% and 13% not 15%, i linked to just one mutual fund that has a 30 year track record of earning 15% so why don't you get your facts straight before you tell me I'm wrong.

if this was homework you would have failed for not getting your facts right

If you had read my post correctly, you would have seen that "15%" did not refer to the return but rather the principal invested. I said, "You are the one who provided return estimates based upon investing the entire 15% of annual income that goes to FICA."

Read it again. Slowly. Who fails for fucking up his facts? That would be you.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

don't teach a man to fish and he can eat government cheese the rest of his life. I'll take the fish.

Actually if you read my post, you would have seen that i used 10% and 13% not 15%, i linked to just one mutual fund that has a 30 year track record of earning 15% so why don't you get your facts straight before you tell me I'm wrong.

if this was homework you would have failed for not getting your facts right

it doesn't take a rocket scientists to figure out or at least to extrapolate that disability insurance does not appreciably affect the numbers. and here is a little info in SS disability

http://www.disability-insurance-center.com/disability_insurance_overview.html

and if you want to know, a 24 year old making 45K can get a DI policy that will pay him 2700 per month for a mere 75 bucks a month (better benefits than SS)

http://www.instantdisabilityinsurancequote.com/Results.aspx

you'll see that SS will pay only 1600 a month to someone earning 70K a year. i'd say my policy is a better value no???????


here I'll hold your hand as i explain so the thought of life without government help doesn't scare you.

if a married couple, and most people are married so don't start whining about the single people because single people have much lower expenses than married folks so saving for them should be even easier, both put 15% of their money away using my numbers from my first post at a 10% average return after 40 years they would have about 6.5 million do you really think that if they spent over that same 40 years about 200 a month on DI that they would even have to use any of the 15% they save for retirement. hell that's less than a cable bill for christ's sake. and you are forgetting that most people also contribute to a 401k or other employer sponsored retirement plan add that to my numbers and the future for these people is even better than my projections.

you think that just because the government provides insurance through SS that it MUST not be able to be had at a better value. well you can get a better DI policy that pays better benefits for peanuts

Dogger get things wrong? Dogger not able to read what is written and presented to him and understand it? Come now, saw it isn't so.....

 

[Skull Pilot]

If you had read my post correctly, you would have seen that "15%" did not refer to the return but rather the principal invested. I said, "You are the one who provided return estimates based upon investing the entire 15% of annual income that goes to FICA."

Read it again. Slowly. Who fails for fucking up his facts? That would be you.

O.K. i'll give you that, i read it before i had my coffee


so tell me why SS is better now that i have given you info on DI

 

[Dogger]

Dogger get [sic] things wrong? Dogger not able to read what is written and presented to him and understand it? Come now, saw [sic] it isn't so.....

Jumped the gun, you fucking idiot.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Jumped the gun, you fucking idiot.

The only idiot here Dogger is you. But " Thanks for playing" TM RGS 2008.

 

[Dogger]

Dogger get [sic] things wrong? Dogger not able to read what is written and presented to him and understand it? Come now, saw [sic] it isn't so.....

Jumped the gun, you fucking idiot.

You should have read Skull's post carefully before relying on it. Even Skull understands that he misunderstood my earlier post. His admission of error is one reason I have far more respect for him than I ever will have for you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Jumped the gun, you fucking idiot.

but you still haven't answered the question of why SS is better than my scenario have you??

 

[rayboyusmc]

Social security has worked, so I find it difficult to accept your "theory" based information why it can't.

But back to the Bush economy that started this thread. Here is another sign of the great economic times we are in.

If there was any doubt that rising prices and a souring economy are affecting South Florida families, more proof has arrived:

The number of households using food stamps is up 26 percent in Palm Beach County since April of last year and up more than 19 percent in Broward County, data released this week from the state Department of Children & Families show. And government officials expect those numbers to grow.

"We're in the midst of an economic tsunami. You take all these issues: the cost of gas, the cost of food and the lack of affordable housing," said Perry Borman, DCF administrator for Palm Beach County. "The people going to community food services used to be just the homeless and the unemployed. Now, in the last few years, the shift we've seen is to the working poor."

Of course all thes worthless Floridians aren't willing to work for their fucking fish. Upwards of your anal opening. Could be a hangover from Jeb's years of Florida Abuse.

RGS, can't rite too good, but criticizes others. The original "your a fucking idiot" poster is returned his own compliment.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-flbfoodstamps0514sbmay14,0,7079437.story

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Social security has worked, so I find it difficult to accept your "theory" based information why it can't.

But back to the Bush economy that started this thread. Here is another sign of the great economic times we are in.



Of course all thes worthless Floridians aren't willing to work for their fucking fish. Upwards of your anal opening. Could be a hangover from Jeb's years of Florida Abuse.

RGS, can't rite too good, but criticizes others. The original "your a fucking idiot" poster is returned his own compliment.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-flbfoodstamps0514sbmay14,0,7079437.story

Social Security will go bankrupt because the Government does not, in fact , invest the money, they spend it and then "repay" it with government bonds they know they can not pay eventually. Even the Democrats agreed this was true before Bush came in office, of course after he was in office it became a " Bush said it, so we oppose it game" and they since have claimed the system is fine.

Social Security Taxes are spent on anything the Government feels like spending them on, they are considered as part of the General Funds available to the Government to run the ENTIRE Government. When the reality is, if they had kept them separate and actually invested them the system would never go bankrupt.

 

[midcan5]

one guy would do better so we should ALL have to do worse than we could. typical liberal crap.

No, one guy proved your assumption was wrong.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No, one guy proved your assumption was wrong.

actually it did not prove my assumption wrong, or maybe it did IF (and that's a big if) the only thing anyone could invest in was the Dow Jones industrial average stocks. FYI there are a hell of a lot more stocks and funds to invest in than the DJI. but since this one guy compared his SS to a single index of only 20 companies I guess we should all just limit ourselves to those same 20 stocks right?????

wasn't it you who said diversification was the key to investing?? I don't think that comparing investment projections over a 40 year period and limiting the projection to a mere 20 companies is very diverse, do you???

 

[Dogger]

One man's retirement math: Social Security wins

At the heart of President Bush's plan to sell Social Security private accounts is a simple notion: You're always better off investing your retirement money than letting the government do it.

By doing it yourself, you can stow some money in the stock market, and over the long run will get a better return on that investment than today's Social Security system offers.

Just ask Stanley Logue of San Diego.

For 45 years, the defense-industry analyst paid into the system until his retirement in 1994. But with all the recent hoopla over reform, Mr. Logue, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology graduate, decided to go back and check his own records. Would he have done better investing his money than the bureaucrats at the Social Security Administration?

You guessed it.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1227/p01s03-cogn.html

Actually, Logue's math under-reports the value of Social Security. The whole time he was paying FICA, Logue was covered by disability insurance. Had he gone totally private, he would have had to pay premiums to obtain comparable DI coveage, yet he treated his entire FICA payment as though it was available for investment in private accounts. Under his math, he was able to get a better return from SS while treating the disability insurance as though it was free.

Although Skull points out one fund that performs well, it has greater risk and less security than payments guaranteed by the US Government. "Figures shown are past results and are not predictive of results in future periods." The fact remains, some will do better, some will do worse, and some will make catastrophic investments.

The other fact that remains is that before SS, most seniors lived in poverty or dependency, or died prematurely; today, very few do.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Actually, Logue's math under-reports the value of Social Security. The whole time he was paying FICA, Logue was covered by disability insurance. Had he gone totally private, he would have had to pay premiums to obtain comparable DI coveage, yet he treated his entire FICA payment as though it was available for investment in private accounts. Under his math, he was able to get a better return from SS while treating the disability insurance as though it was free.

Although Skull points out one fund that performs well, it has greater risk and less security than payments guaranteed by the US Government. "Figures shown are past results and are not predictive of results in future periods." The fact remains, some will do better, some will do worse, and some will make catastrophic investments.

The other fact that remains is that before SS, most seniors lived in poverty or dependency, or died prematurely; today, very few do.

if you would bother to look around you would find hundreds of mutual funds that have a better than 10% return over thirty or more years(and seriously if a fund has been managed well for that long what makes you think that all of a sudden it will tank? because the only measure that we have of future performance IS past performance) add to that exchange traded funds and a mix of individual stocks and bonds and the possibilities are endless. and you fail to mention how inexpensive DI is not to mention how difficult it is to qualify for SS disability and also the fact that SS usually pays a significantly lower benefit than privately owned DI as i have shown in previous posts.

The argument that before SS people retired in poverty is specious at best as there was no mandated savings plan. Under a reform of the SS system everyone would be saving 15% of their income for their entire working lives and all that money would be in dedicated individually owned accounts and not put into a slush fund that the government can use at its leisure. Seriously if the money we pay into social security is nought but a loan to the government then we should get an additional interest payment from the government for allowing them to borrow our money. the main reason for the resistance to a better system is that the government NEEDS the SS contributions from future workers just to pay back the money they have stolen, i mean borrowed from the SS fund.

Anyone in the business of money will tell you that a guaranteed return is no better than a guaranteed loss. let someone guarantee you 5% and I guarantee you they are making 12% on your money thereby costing you 7%.

 

[jreeves]

if you would bother to look around you would find hundreds of mutual funds that have a better than 10% return over thirty or more years(and seriously if a fund has been managed well for that long what makes you think that all of a sudden it will tank? because the only measure that we have of future performance IS past performance) add to that exchange traded funds and a mix of individual stocks and bonds and the possibilities are endless. and you fail to mention how inexpensive DI is not to mention how difficult it is to qualify for SS disability and also the fact that SS usually pays a significantly lower benefit than privately owned DI as i have shown in previous posts.

The argument that before SS people retired in poverty is specious at best as there was no mandated savings plan. Under a reform of the SS system everyone would be saving 15% of their income for their entire working lives and all that money would be in dedicated individually owned accounts and not put into a slush fund that the government can use at its leisure. Seriously if the money we pay into social security is nought but a loan to the government then we should get an additional interest payment from the government for allowing them to borrow our money. the main reason for the resistance to a better system is that the government NEEDS the SS contributions from future workers just to pay back the money they have stolen, i mean borrowed from the SS fund.

Anyone in the business of money will tell you that a guaranteed return is no better than a guaranteed loss. let someone guarantee you 5% and I guarantee you they are making 12% on your money thereby costing you 7%.

On top of that, 27% of the taxes collected to fund the program is wasted by the federal government through tax collections and bureaucratic expense.

 

[Dogger]

On top of that, 27% of the taxes collected to fund the program is wasted by the federal government through tax collections and bureaucratic expense.

And 43% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

 

[jreeves]

And 43% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Except that....
According to a study by James L. Payne, just the private compliance expense of taxpayers plus the budgetary and enforcement expense of the IRS add $270,000,000 to the tab for each billion dollars of spending by the federal government.7

http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1155

BTW..another stat for you, liberals only use 1/10 of 1% of their brain.

 

[Dogger]

BTW..another stat for you, liberals only use 1/10 of 1% of their brain.

Which explains why they are 10 times smarter than conservatives.

 

[jreeves]

Which explains why they are 10 times smarter than conservatives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_brain
Humans use only 10% or less of their brain: Even though many mysteries of brain function persist, every part of the brain has a known function(true for conservatives)

But the common misconception is due to the little use of the brain by liberals.
This thread is case in point.....

 

[Skull Pilot]

Which explains why they are 10 times smarter than conservatives.

which is why you would still rather give your $$$ to SS despite the fact that i've shown you that you would be much better off taking care of your own retirement and DI.