Texas Teen Killed by Police in School Had a Pellet Gun!

[Crackerjack]

Should we sell toy guns in the first place? If he did not have a toy gun, then the police would have shot and killed him. A life was lost, and peoples’ lives on both sides will change. Thousands of dollars will be spent in an investigation and lawsuits if it happens.

With have to ask the NRA, will you agree that toy guns can be banned? Or would they say, you start with toy guns, and then you open the door to ban real guns. Therefore, children that do not know better will be shot by police that do not know better as well.

A pellet gun ≠ a toy gun.

All toy guns imported into the US these days are required to have a a 6 mm orange tip on the end to avoid just this sort of situation.

Does the toy gun with the orange tip work well in very low light – most accidental deaths with a pellet gun or a toy gun happen at nighttime? Now, could you see a little organ tip at say midnight with the only help with light a mercury light. Most would not, so how does that orange tip would work part of the time. Sure, it could save more lives with it on. Still, it is not fail safe: and that can end in death.

Very well, how do we eliminate all accidental deaths along these lines?

 

[Starbuck]

Damn straight!!! Let's outlaw alcohol and cars too! And fatty foods!

They are a choice, a rational person that makes a rational lifestyle choice. It could be rational for their lifestyle, and not for others. They are free will. Is it free will, to have a pellet gun or a toy gun – only to be shot and killed by the police? Understand the rational argument, he should have understood he could be shot and kill with having a weapon. A pellet gun, a toy gun, they are still a weapon in one way or another. Anyway, are we not going down the rabbit hole, to place full blame on the person killed. Society, has to be ethically responsible.

 

[kwc57]

Should we sell toy guns in the first place? If he did not have a toy gun, then the police would have shot and killed him. A life was lost, and peoples’ lives on both sides will change. Thousands of dollars will be spent in an investigation and lawsuits if it happens.

With have to ask the NRA, will you agree that toy guns can be banned? Or would they say, you start with toy guns, and then you open the door to ban real guns. Therefore, children that do not know better will be shot by police that do not know better as well.

A pellet gun ≠ a toy gun.

All toy guns imported into the US these days are required to have a a 6 mm orange tip on the end to avoid just this sort of situation.

Does the toy gun with the orange tip work well in very low light – most accidental deaths with a pellet gun or a toy gun happen at nighttime? Now, could you see a little organ tip at say midnight with the only help with light a mercury light. Most would not, so how does that orange tip would work part of the time. Sure, it could save more lives with it on. Still, it is not fail safe: and that can end in death.

Oh good grief!!! Taking a bath can end in death. There are no guarantees of living a long life in this world. Those who act stupidly will stand a better chance of losing their life sooner. A responsible person knows not to aim anything that could be construed as a gun towards a police office and to drop it on command. A dumb person gets shot for pointing it and refusing to drop it.

Here is what a toy gun looks like. Even if you are holding one of these and a policeman says to drop it.......drop it.

View attachment 17031

 

[lizzie]

Should we sell toy guns in the first place? If he did not have a toy gun, then the police would have shot and killed him. A life was lost, and peoples’ lives on both sides will change. Thousands of dollars will be spent in an investigation and lawsuits if it happens.

With have to ask the NRA, will you agree that toy guns can be banned? Or would they say, you start with toy guns, and then you open the door to ban real guns. Therefore, children that do not know better will be shot by police that do not know better as well.

It wasn't a toy gun. It was a pellet gun. Pellet guns shoot lead pellets, and they are used for target shooting and/or hunting small game. They aren't classified as firearms because they don't use an explosive blast to propel the ammo.
The problem here wasn't with the gun itself, but with the kid's refusal to put the gun down. It was a pellet gun which looked like a Glock.

 

[lizzie]

Should we sell toy guns in the first place? If he did not have a toy gun, then the police would have shot and killed him. A life was lost, and peoples’ lives on both sides will change. Thousands of dollars will be spent in an investigation and lawsuits if it happens.

With have to ask the NRA, will you agree that toy guns can be banned? Or would they say, you start with toy guns, and then you open the door to ban real guns. Therefore, children that do not know better will be shot by police that do not know better as well.

A pellet gun ≠ a toy gun.

All toy guns imported into the US these days are required to have a a 6 mm orange tip on the end to avoid just this sort of situation.

Does the toy gun with the orange tip work well in very low light – most accidental deaths with a pellet gun or a toy gun happen at nighttime? Now, could you see a little organ tip at say midnight with the only help with light a mercury light. Most would not, so how does that orange tip would work part of the time. Sure, it could save more lives with it on. Still, it is not fail safe: and that can end in death.

The orange tip is to signify that it is not a real firearm, and doesn't have an effect on how it works.

 

[strollingbones]

this is what is wrong with pellet guns and toy guns.....i believe you need to give a kid a real gun and a real education about what a gun can do.....it is not a video game.....

 

[kwc57]

Damn straight!!! Let's outlaw alcohol and cars too! And fatty foods!

They are a choice, a rational person that makes a rational lifestyle choice. It could be rational for their lifestyle, and not for others. They are free will. Is it free will, to have a pellet gun or a toy gun – only to be shot and killed by the police? Understand the rational argument, he should have understood he could be shot and kill with having a weapon. A pellet gun, a toy gun, they are still a weapon in one way or another. Anyway, are we not going down the rabbit hole, to place full blame on the person killed. Society, has to be ethically responsible.

Full blame does lie with the person killed in the story of the OP. The police were ethically responsible in perceiving a threat to a school full of children by a person they spent 20 minutes trying to get to drop his weapon. He did not and he died. I'm sure the parents of all the other students are thankful for their actions.

 

[Starbuck]

Very well, how do we eliminate all accidental deaths along these lines?

We are both rational, as we understand that children toys or, children that use a pellet gun – can be killed by law enforcement personal as an accidental death. Society, can only limit not outright change the wills of people to do stupid acts. The death of the child, the shooting of the police, and whatever point you want to downgrade – are parts of a whole. Recall, we are more than the sum of our parts. Society, government, cultural understanding: can only limit not outright have a perfect fail safe.

 

[strollingbones]

the police always have to act to protect the majority...simple as that.....

 

[kwc57]

this is what is wrong with pellet guns and toy guns.....i believe you need to give a kid a real gun and a real education about what a gun can do.....it is not a video game.....

Put them in Cub Scouts and they will be shooting BB guns and bows and arrows under qualified safty range instructors. Send them to Boy Scouts and they will be shooting 22's and shotguns. Never, ever make your safety range instructor angry if you want to shoot.

 

[Crackerjack]

Very well, how do we eliminate all accidental deaths along these lines?

We are both rational, as we understand that children toys or, children that use a pellet gun – can be killed by law enforcement personal as an accidental death. Society, can only limit not outright change the wills of people to do stupid acts. The death of the child, the shooting of the police, and whatever point you want to downgrade – are parts of a whole. Recall, we are more than the sum of our parts. Society, government, cultural understanding: can only limit not outright have a perfect fail safe.

So what exactly does society do about a teenager who waves around an object he passes off as a firearm in a school full of children?

 

[Starbuck]

Full blame does lie with the person killed in the story of the OP. The police were ethically responsible in perceiving a threat to a school full of children by a person they spent 20 minutes trying to get to drop his weapon. He did not and he died. I'm sure the parents of all the other students are thankful for their actions.

Would agree, he did force the police to kill him. Then we have to ask, did the child have any clear signs of a mental problem, or, a drug problem. Children are not full adults, and, we as a total society have to be responsible citizens dealing with trouble citizens. Then again, there could have been nothing to have a red flag point up.

 

[Starbuck]

So what exactly does society do about a teenager who waves around an object he passes off as a firearm in a school full of children?

How did he get to the point to do such an act? It is not rational to say, he got up that morning and decided he was going to the school and wave a pellet gun and tell everyone it was a real firearm. Even if he was on drugs, even for the first time, there should have been red flags.

 

[Crackerjack]

So what exactly does society do about a teenager who waves around an object he passes off as a firearm in a school full of children?

How did he get to the point to do such an act? It is not rational to say, he got up that morning and decided he was going to the school and wave a pellet gun and tell everyone it was a real firearm. Even if he was on drugs, even for the first time, there should have been red flags.

Then the responsibility falls on his parents, not society in general.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So what exactly does society do about a teenager who waves around an object he passes off as a firearm in a school full of children?

Exactly what it did.

 

[Crackerjack]

So what exactly does society do about a teenager who waves around an object he passes off as a firearm in a school full of children?

Exactly what it did.

That's kinda what I was thinking. I mean, that's the point of having the police, right? They're not just part of a government program to subsidize doughnut shops.

I'm usually very critical of the police, but I'm having a hard time finding anything to criticize about how this situation was handled when viewed according to the narrative we have at this particular time.

 

[lizzie]

Full blame does lie with the person killed in the story of the OP. The police were ethically responsible in perceiving a threat to a school full of children by a person they spent 20 minutes trying to get to drop his weapon. He did not and he died. I'm sure the parents of all the other students are thankful for their actions.

Would agree, he did force the police to kill him. Then we have to ask, did the child have any clear signs of a mental problem, or, a drug problem. Children are not full adults, and, we as a total society have to be responsible citizens dealing with trouble citizens. Then again, there could have been nothing to have a red flag point up.

If the newspaper accounts are accurate, I would say that yes, there were clear signs of a mental problem. Fighting with a knife the morning of the incident, hitting another kid in the face upon entering the classroom, unprovoked, pulling a pellet pistol and claiming it was a real firearm, and according to the mom "he had been getting better", which tells me there had been problems of some sort. Also a 15 year-old who is in the 8th grade raises at least a couple of flags in my mind. I graduated high school the day I turned 17.

 

[kwc57]

Full blame does lie with the person killed in the story of the OP. The police were ethically responsible in perceiving a threat to a school full of children by a person they spent 20 minutes trying to get to drop his weapon. He did not and he died. I'm sure the parents of all the other students are thankful for their actions.

Would agree, he did force the police to kill him. Then we have to ask, did the child have any clear signs of a mental problem, or, a drug problem. Children are not full adults, and, we as a total society have to be responsible citizens dealing with trouble citizens. Then again, there could have been nothing to have a red flag point up.

If the newspaper accounts are accurate, I would say that yes, there were clear signs of a mental problem. Fighting with a knife the morning of the incident, hitting another kid in the face upon entering the classroom, unprovoked, pulling a pellet pistol and claiming it was a real firearm, and according to the mom "he had been getting better", which tells me there had been problems of some sort. Also a 15 year-old who is in the 8th grade raises at least a couple of flags in my mind. I graduated high school the day I turned 17.

There but for the grace of God, go I. That being said, why do parents of troubled kids keep putting them back into situations where things can go bad? I understand they want their child to be "normal". I understand they want them to be socialized. But when there is a clear pattern and there continues to be problems, you have to stop and think about how it affects those around them. I'm a Boy Scout leader and our troop is pretty open to taking in any kid, eve nwith some issues, as long as there is full disclosure up front. We are volunteers and not trained professionals. If your child has serious emotional issues, is sending him out in the woods to camp really the best thing for him.......regardless of what his counselor says is "best" for him? I've got a number of stories I could tell about kids on campouts that would concern you. At some point, we have to consider the other 30 kids on the campout over the 1 who is requiring multiple adults attention.

 

[lizzie]

The more I hear about and read this story, the more I wonder if the kid was just beginning to get involved in gang activity of some type. The mom made the statement that he had been "getting better", and the parents stated that the pellet gun was not a gift they would ever have given him. He was bordering on being too old for his grade level, which probably gave him a physical edge on his peers. The age of 14-15 seems to be a particularly difficult hurdle for boys to jump (based on my own parenting experience with two boys), and one of the articles I read stated that some gang members went to the funeral. I really think there is much more to the story than what we're hearing.

 

[manifold]

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