Texas Open-Carry, Boys and their Deadly Toys.

[2aguy]

Let's clear up the story brain and show the truth......something you are sadly unfamiliar with ....


Zamudio’s Experience

“It was Saturday,” Joe began. “I didn’t have to work, so I went to have breakfast with my mom. On the way back, I went to Walgreen’s. Walking up to the door, I saw a crowd of people (at the rally), and went in to get cigarettes before seeing what was going on. As I was asking the lady behind the counter for a pack of Camels, I heard one shot, then a chain of shots real fast, before she could hand me the cigarettes. It sounded like fireworks. I just responded and ran out door. As I cleared the door, a man in front of me who had been wounded in the leg said, ‘Shooter! Shooter! Get down!’”

Zamudio had long kept a gun in his car. The previous August, when buying a Ruger P95 9mm, he had learned from the gun dealer that Arizona had legalized permit-less carry, and from that day on had worn the Ruger constantly. Left-handed, he was carrying it that day, butt forward in the inside right breast pocket of his jacket, fully loaded with 16 rounds.

Zamudio continued, “I reached into my pocket, put my hand on my pistol, took the safety off, and ran down the sidewalk (toward the shooting scene). That’s when I saw a group of people wrestling with (Loughner). The first thing I focused on was the man closest to me. His back was to me. He raised up with a Glock in his hand, open, magazine sticking out. In that second I decided that because the gun was open, I didn’t have to shoot him. I immediately grabbed him by the wrist, turned the gun in toward him, told him to drop the weapon. He did.

“Even as he was dropping the gun, everyone yelled, ‘It’s not him, it’s not him!’ I said, ‘Put it down.’ I was hearing people yell, ‘I’ll kill you, you motherf***er, I’ll kill you.’ When the man dropped the gun I said, ‘Put your foot on it, make us all feel safe,’ and he did. This turned out to be Roger Sulzgeber, one of my personal heroes. He and Bill Badger had grabbed Loughner and pulled him to the ground. Apparently the gun had jammed, either misfired or didn’t feed, and Loughner was trying to reload again when they grabbed him. There was an empty mag on ground, a full one that mis-fed in the gun, and another full magazine Patricia Maisch got away from him.”

Killer Restrained

“The world went into slow motion,” Joe continued. “I assessed the situation. Bill had Loughner by the neck on the ground. Roger stood on the gun and leaned over and grabbed Loughner’s shoulder, holding him down. Patricia had been on the ground when she grabbed the loaded magazine away from him, and she shimmied over his legs. Loughner began to struggle, and Patricia asked me to take her place. I got down onto the back of his knee and put a hand on his hip. A fourth gentleman put a foot on his back, he wasn’t going anywhere. I tried to call 911 but couldn’t get through, tried three times. The police showed up in about four minutes. All Loughner ever said during that time was, ‘Ow. You’re breaking my arm.’”

Joe adds, “Bill Badger was bleeding profusely from his head. He told me as Loughner was shooting everyone, (Loughner approached him and) pointed the gun at Bill’s head. Bill reflexively turned his head away, and when Loughner fired, the bullet took skin off down to the skull but did no real damage. Bill went down. When the gun stopped firing, Bill raised back up and Loughner was right in front of him. That was when the wrestling started. Bill Badger was bleeding, the first real blood I saw, and it hit me that this had really happened, all these people got shot. The enormity of it set in.

“I looked to my right, and saw a sea of wounded people. Between them and their loved ones and everyone else trying to help, there were just so many people. Many people were screaming different things at once. ‘Call the police!’ ‘Oh, my God!’ ‘Where’s the ambulance?’ People say crazy things to deal with the trauma. One person yelled, ‘Take a picture of his face!’”

The Cavalry Arrives

Zamudio remembers, “The lady from Walgreen’s came out and did CPR on one victim. There were four different doctors at or near the scene who were able to provide immediate care. The first law enforcement to show up was a uniformed officer, a minute ahead of everyone else, and he got out of his car with gun in hand, looking at us. People were shouting ‘He’s right here, he’s right here.’ A lady tried to give the officer the empty magazine.

“Instead, he went straight to Loughner, cuffed him, and when the second officer arrived, they searched him. I watched them take two regular magazines, a Ziplock baggie with cash, and a folding knife from him. No phone, no ID, no keys. At that point I couldn’t believe he had a knife the whole time. If he’d gotten to it, it would have been another set of problems.”

Aftermath/Afterthoughts
Joe was prepared to stop the killer with gunfire if he had to. He says today, “I was just truly blessed I didn’t have to pull my firearm. I didn’t have to go to that place. The guy who had the gun was the wrong guy, and I’m glad I didn’t pull a gun on him. I’m glad the people took him down when they did. He was heading in my direction, toward the Walgreen’s, coming my way; when I stepped out the door I might have been the next victim, or would have had to shoot him.”

He adds, “It was the most intense five minutes of my life, hands down. You can’t be prepared to see the dead bodies and the wounded people. Some of the dead lay there for the two hours the police kept us there, covered with shirts and jackets. Some they worked on and took away. There were many people with superficial wounds: ‘My arm’s bleeding,’ ‘My back is bleeding.’”

Joe found the police response to him very reasonable when they learned he was armed at the scene. He relates, “Starting that day, (it’s been) crazy ever since. I never thought about it. I take my gun with me because I might need it to protect myself. I had never thought about the other things that might be involved. The police were very cool. The investigating officer took me aside, and we went through what had happened three or four times. When it was over he said, ‘Thank you, have a nice day,’ and let me get in my car and drive away.” Joe’s gun was never taken, never came out. He explains, “I told the first policeman that I didn’t want to scare anyone, but I was carrying a gun, in my coat pocket. Did he want it? He said no, tell the investigator. Another officer asked me to stand separately, that was it. When the investigator asked to see my gun, I opened my coat and showed him where it was, and he said okay. That was it.”

So the person he stopped was not the bad guy.

Do you have any reading comprehension at all, the guy was already restrained because of pure dumb luck, and he saw the guy holding a gun, and restrained him...just in case....read it again.....you might get it the second time you read it...read slow, sound out the words.....

You better read it again, try slowly:
Zamudio continued, “I reached into my pocket, put my hand on my pistol, took the safety off, and ran down the sidewalk (toward the shooting scene). That’s when I saw a group of people wrestling with (Loughner). The first thing I focused on was the man closest to me. His back was to me. He raised up with a Glock in his hand, open, magazine sticking out. In that second I decided that because the gun was open, I didn’t have to shoot him. I immediately grabbed him by the wrist, turned the gun in toward him, told him to drop the weapon. He did.

yeah...I've read it over and over...try actually comprehending it this time........

He raised up with a Glock in his hand, open, magazine sticking out. In that second I decided that because the gun was open, I didn’t have to shoot him.

And this part....

When the man dropped the gun I said, ‘Put your foot on it, make us all feel safe,’ and he did. This turned out to be Roger Sulzgeber, one of my personal heroes. He and Bill Badger had grabbed Loughner and pulled him to the ground.

The shooter was already on the ground when he didn't shoot the other guy....

So the only guy he stopped was not the bad guy.

The guy he secured was not the bad guy, but he didn't know that.....and he still didn't shoot him.....but...he had a weapon to stop the shooter if pure dumb luck hadn't solved the problem...


I am moving on Brain...have a good rest of the weekend...

 

[2aguy]

Again, guns are the most effective way to stop rape...the research shows that....and the women who stop the rape with a gun would disagree with you...they would prefer not to have to get a rape kit done on them, or have to have an AIDS test or have their familly notified that their body has been found naked, and buried in a shallow grave in a forest somewhere....and they would not see their attempted rape as a tiny fraction of rapes that just have to happen because brain would rather they were raped than that they stopped the rape with a gun...because he doesn't like guns and thinks their rape is a tiny fraction of a problem.....

And yet the vast majority of rapes aren't defendable with a gun. Now stop lying.

Brain...I am not a gun grabber, I don't lie to promote my fear of guns or my support of guns.....gun grabbers and other lefties do that since the truth and reality show they are wrong, so the only way they can convince people is to lie and emote.....

I never said all rapes are defensible with a gun...you say you don't care that the rapes that can be stopped with a gun may be completed if you disarm these women....you prefer a completed rape than that these women have the ability to stop it with a gun.......and there are rapes everyday that can be and are stopped with guns.....

You lie because I have never suggested disarming anyone.

Every day? Link?

I have never suggested disarming anyone.

Yes....every post you post says it loud and clear brain.......

You don't think women are raped everyday.....?

Stop lying. Post where I have every suggested it.

Show me there are gun defendable rapes every day. The vast majority of rapes are nut defendable with a gun.

Yes.....you get to show completed rapes because they happen.....I can't show all rapes stopped with guns, because the victim had a gun...because they were stopped before they happened......if you gun grabbers didn't have luck, and gullible people, your agenda would never pass.....

 

[Brain357]

So the person he stopped was not the bad guy.

Do you have any reading comprehension at all, the guy was already restrained because of pure dumb luck, and he saw the guy holding a gun, and restrained him...just in case....read it again.....you might get it the second time you read it...read slow, sound out the words.....

You better read it again, try slowly:
Zamudio continued, “I reached into my pocket, put my hand on my pistol, took the safety off, and ran down the sidewalk (toward the shooting scene). That’s when I saw a group of people wrestling with (Loughner). The first thing I focused on was the man closest to me. His back was to me. He raised up with a Glock in his hand, open, magazine sticking out. In that second I decided that because the gun was open, I didn’t have to shoot him. I immediately grabbed him by the wrist, turned the gun in toward him, told him to drop the weapon. He did.

yeah...I've read it over and over...try actually comprehending it this time........

He raised up with a Glock in his hand, open, magazine sticking out. In that second I decided that because the gun was open, I didn’t have to shoot him.

And this part....

When the man dropped the gun I said, ‘Put your foot on it, make us all feel safe,’ and he did. This turned out to be Roger Sulzgeber, one of my personal heroes. He and Bill Badger had grabbed Loughner and pulled him to the ground.

The shooter was already on the ground when he didn't shoot the other guy....

So the only guy he stopped was not the bad guy.

The guy he secured was not the bad guy, but he didn't know that.....and he still didn't shoot him.....but...he had a weapon to stop the shooter if pure dumb luck hadn't solved the problem...


I am moving on Brain...have a good rest of the weekend...

So again I am right. The only person he stopped was not the bad guy.

 

[Brain357]

And yet the vast majority of rapes aren't defendable with a gun. Now stop lying.

Brain...I am not a gun grabber, I don't lie to promote my fear of guns or my support of guns.....gun grabbers and other lefties do that since the truth and reality show they are wrong, so the only way they can convince people is to lie and emote.....

I never said all rapes are defensible with a gun...you say you don't care that the rapes that can be stopped with a gun may be completed if you disarm these women....you prefer a completed rape than that these women have the ability to stop it with a gun.......and there are rapes everyday that can be and are stopped with guns.....

You lie because I have never suggested disarming anyone.

Every day? Link?

I have never suggested disarming anyone.

Yes....every post you post says it loud and clear brain.......

You don't think women are raped everyday.....?

Stop lying. Post where I have every suggested it.

Show me there are gun defendable rapes every day. The vast majority of rapes are nut defendable with a gun.

Yes.....you get to show completed rapes because they happen.....I can't show all rapes stopped with guns...because they were stopped before they happened......if you gun grabbers didn't have luck, and gullible people, your agenda would never pass.....

So you can't. I didn't think so. What agenda is that?

 

[2aguy]

Do you have any reading comprehension at all, the guy was already restrained because of pure dumb luck, and he saw the guy holding a gun, and restrained him...just in case....read it again.....you might get it the second time you read it...read slow, sound out the words.....

You better read it again, try slowly:
Zamudio continued, “I reached into my pocket, put my hand on my pistol, took the safety off, and ran down the sidewalk (toward the shooting scene). That’s when I saw a group of people wrestling with (Loughner). The first thing I focused on was the man closest to me. His back was to me. He raised up with a Glock in his hand, open, magazine sticking out. In that second I decided that because the gun was open, I didn’t have to shoot him. I immediately grabbed him by the wrist, turned the gun in toward him, told him to drop the weapon. He did.

yeah...I've read it over and over...try actually comprehending it this time........

He raised up with a Glock in his hand, open, magazine sticking out. In that second I decided that because the gun was open, I didn’t have to shoot him.

And this part....

When the man dropped the gun I said, ‘Put your foot on it, make us all feel safe,’ and he did. This turned out to be Roger Sulzgeber, one of my personal heroes. He and Bill Badger had grabbed Loughner and pulled him to the ground.

The shooter was already on the ground when he didn't shoot the other guy....

So the only guy he stopped was not the bad guy.

The guy he secured was not the bad guy, but he didn't know that.....and he still didn't shoot him.....but...he had a weapon to stop the shooter if pure dumb luck hadn't solved the problem...


I am moving on Brain...have a good rest of the weekend...

So again I am right. The only person he stopped was not the bad guy.

yes....I know that is all you get out of that story but that is because you are a gun grabber who can't see the truth or reality.....

 

[Brain357]

You better read it again, try slowly:
Zamudio continued, “I reached into my pocket, put my hand on my pistol, took the safety off, and ran down the sidewalk (toward the shooting scene). That’s when I saw a group of people wrestling with (Loughner). The first thing I focused on was the man closest to me. His back was to me. He raised up with a Glock in his hand, open, magazine sticking out. In that second I decided that because the gun was open, I didn’t have to shoot him. I immediately grabbed him by the wrist, turned the gun in toward him, told him to drop the weapon. He did.

yeah...I've read it over and over...try actually comprehending it this time........

He raised up with a Glock in his hand, open, magazine sticking out. In that second I decided that because the gun was open, I didn’t have to shoot him.

And this part....

When the man dropped the gun I said, ‘Put your foot on it, make us all feel safe,’ and he did. This turned out to be Roger Sulzgeber, one of my personal heroes. He and Bill Badger had grabbed Loughner and pulled him to the ground.

The shooter was already on the ground when he didn't shoot the other guy....

So the only guy he stopped was not the bad guy.

The guy he secured was not the bad guy, but he didn't know that.....and he still didn't shoot him.....but...he had a weapon to stop the shooter if pure dumb luck hadn't solved the problem...


I am moving on Brain...have a good rest of the weekend...

So again I am right. The only person he stopped was not the bad guy.

yes....I know that is all you get out of that story but that is because you are a gun grabber who can't see the truth or reality.....

No it is also very clear he was stopped by unarmed heroes. It is also very clear magazines limits would have saved lives.

 

[2aguy]

Brain...I am not a gun grabber, I don't lie to promote my fear of guns or my support of guns.....gun grabbers and other lefties do that since the truth and reality show they are wrong, so the only way they can convince people is to lie and emote.....

I never said all rapes are defensible with a gun...you say you don't care that the rapes that can be stopped with a gun may be completed if you disarm these women....you prefer a completed rape than that these women have the ability to stop it with a gun.......and there are rapes everyday that can be and are stopped with guns.....

You lie because I have never suggested disarming anyone.

Every day? Link?

I have never suggested disarming anyone.

Yes....every post you post says it loud and clear brain.......

You don't think women are raped everyday.....?

Stop lying. Post where I have every suggested it.

Show me there are gun defendable rapes every day. The vast majority of rapes are nut defendable with a gun.

Yes.....you get to show completed rapes because they happen.....I can't show all rapes stopped with guns...because they were stopped before they happened......if you gun grabbers didn't have luck, and gullible people, your agenda would never pass.....

So you can't. I didn't think so. What agenda is that?

Well...actual research on the subject shows that guns are the best way to stop a rape......

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape Womens Voice

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
Current Gun Laws Restrict Women's Defense

And again...to focus on the main point....

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

So again brain...you are wrong...the truth and reality do not bend to your fantasy world view....

 

[2aguy]

And if you want to pay 20 bucks you can read this study brain...he even uses your favorite crime study...the National Crime Victimization Survey to get his stats....

Self-defense with guns The consequences

Self-defense with guns: The consequences

• Lawrence Southwick Jr.,

Abstract
The choices of potential victims and of criminals with respect to weapons were analyzed in an economic game framework. It was found, using National Crime Victimization Study data, that victims who have and use guns have both lower losses and lesser injury rates from violent crime. It was also found that the victim's choice of having a gun is not independent of the criminal's choice. Based on these findings, the consequences of having a greater portion of the potential victims being armed were analyzed. It was found that this would reduce both losses and injuries from crime as well as both the criminals' incentives to commit violent crimes and to be armed.

 

[Brain357]

You lie because I have never suggested disarming anyone.

Every day? Link?

I have never suggested disarming anyone.

Yes....every post you post says it loud and clear brain.......

You don't think women are raped everyday.....?

Stop lying. Post where I have every suggested it.

Show me there are gun defendable rapes every day. The vast majority of rapes are nut defendable with a gun.

Yes.....you get to show completed rapes because they happen.....I can't show all rapes stopped with guns...because they were stopped before they happened......if you gun grabbers didn't have luck, and gullible people, your agenda would never pass.....

So you can't. I didn't think so. What agenda is that?

Well...actual research on the subject shows that guns are the best way to stop a rape......

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape Womens Voice

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
Current Gun Laws Restrict Women's Defense

And again...to focus on the main point....

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

So again brain...you are wrong...the truth and reality do not bend to your fantasy world view....

There isn't much reality in a pro gun study.
Get the Facts - Rape Crisis Center
44% of victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.
66% committed by someone known to the victim, intimate, relative, friends.

Another 70% involve drugs and alcohol:
As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual activity primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, or to having sex they wouldn't have had if they had been sober.

UHS Tang Center

Then there are also women who are attacked while sleeping which isn't defendable with a gun...

So you see most aren't defendable with a gun.

 

[2aguy]

Yes....every post you post says it loud and clear brain.......

You don't think women are raped everyday.....?

Stop lying. Post where I have every suggested it.

Show me there are gun defendable rapes every day. The vast majority of rapes are nut defendable with a gun.

Yes.....you get to show completed rapes because they happen.....I can't show all rapes stopped with guns...because they were stopped before they happened......if you gun grabbers didn't have luck, and gullible people, your agenda would never pass.....

So you can't. I didn't think so. What agenda is that?

Well...actual research on the subject shows that guns are the best way to stop a rape......

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape Womens Voice

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
Current Gun Laws Restrict Women's Defense

And again...to focus on the main point....

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

So again brain...you are wrong...the truth and reality do not bend to your fantasy world view....

There isn't much reality in a pro gun study.
Get the Facts - Rape Crisis Center
44% of victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.
66% committed by someone known to the victim, intimate, relative, friends.

Another 70% involve drugs and alcohol:
As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual activity primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, or to having sex they wouldn't have had if they had been sober.

UHS Tang Center

Then there are also women who are attacked while sleeping which isn't defendable with a gun...

So you see most aren't defendable with a gun.

And the truth and reality.....

Well...actual research on the subject shows that guns are the best way to stop a rape......

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape Womens Voice

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
Current Gun Laws Restrict Women's Defense

And again...to focus on the main point....

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Yes...it is better when a woman is attacked on a train, as has happened here in Chicago, or at a bus stop...again in Chicago...no alcohol, no boyfriend or frat boy...just violent sexual predators.....or in a building in Downtown Chicago...no alcohol or boyfriend.......or in colorado 50 feet from the campus police station, or the nurse in her own car who is later drowned by the 2 rapists in her own car....

No alcohol, not asleep, no boyfriend or aqcuaintance......

It is better these women are allowed to be raped than that they stop the rape with a gun...right brain?

 

[2aguy]

And here we have rapes going back all the way to 2003 by two brothers who were not boyfriends of the victims, no alcohol, just violent physical assaults....

Chicago Tribune


Women were terrorized and sexually assaulted in their apartments or forced into vehicles by threat of violence in the six attacks, which occurred in the city's Lakeview and Brighton Park neighborhoods and the community areas of North Lawndale and Belmont Cragin, court documents reveal.

Leondo Joseph, arrested Saturday night at his home in the 2500 block of North Halsted Street, is charged in all six attacks, according to records. LB Joseph is charged in the two most recent attacks — in 2011 and 2012. Both brothers also face aggravated kidnapping charges.

Chicago detectives linked the brothers to the assaults through Illinois State Police crime lab examinations of all six assaults, prosecutors said in court at the bond hearing. In addition, some victims have identified the brothers, and Leondo Joseph gave statements regarding some of the cases, prosecutors said.

The number of years covered by the assaults — nine — was noteworthy, though victim's advocates point out that rapists, including in acquaintance assaults, are often repeat offenders.

But the experts also pointed to the fact that Chicago police were not notified by the crime lab until this year that the 2012 case was linked to the other five attacks, which was critical information because in the 2012 attack, Chicago police stopped a vehicle carrying the two brothers, though they were not charged.

 

[Brain357]

Stop lying. Post where I have every suggested it.

Show me there are gun defendable rapes every day. The vast majority of rapes are nut defendable with a gun.

Yes.....you get to show completed rapes because they happen.....I can't show all rapes stopped with guns...because they were stopped before they happened......if you gun grabbers didn't have luck, and gullible people, your agenda would never pass.....

So you can't. I didn't think so. What agenda is that?

Well...actual research on the subject shows that guns are the best way to stop a rape......

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape Womens Voice

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
Current Gun Laws Restrict Women's Defense

And again...to focus on the main point....

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

So again brain...you are wrong...the truth and reality do not bend to your fantasy world view....

There isn't much reality in a pro gun study.
Get the Facts - Rape Crisis Center
44% of victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.
66% committed by someone known to the victim, intimate, relative, friends.

Another 70% involve drugs and alcohol:
As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual activity primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, or to having sex they wouldn't have had if they had been sober.

UHS Tang Center

Then there are also women who are attacked while sleeping which isn't defendable with a gun...

So you see most aren't defendable with a gun.

And the truth and reality.....

Well...actual research on the subject shows that guns are the best way to stop a rape......

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape Womens Voice

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
Current Gun Laws Restrict Women's Defense

And again...to focus on the main point....

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Yes...it is better when a woman is attacked on a train, as has happened here in Chicago, or at a bus stop...again in Chicago...no alcohol, no boyfriend or frat boy...just violent sexual predators.....or in a building in Downtown Chicago...no alcohol or boyfriend.......or in colorado 50 feet from the campus police station, or the nurse in her own car who is later drowned by the 2 rapists in her own car....

No alcohol, not asleep, no boyfriend or aqcuaintance......

It is better these women are allowed to be raped than that they stop the rape with a gun...right brain?

Again, the vast majority aren't even defendable with a gun:
There isn't much reality in a pro gun study.
Get the Facts - Rape Crisis Center
44% of victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.
66% committed by someone known to the victim, intimate, relative, friends.

Another 70% involve drugs and alcohol:
As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual activity primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, or to having sex they wouldn't have had if they had been sober.

UHS Tang Center

Then there are also women who are attacked while sleeping which isn't defendable with a gun...

 

[Brain357]

And here we have rapes going back all the way to 2003 by two brothers who were not boyfriends of the victims, no alcohol, just violent physical assaults....

Chicago Tribune


Women were terrorized and sexually assaulted in their apartments or forced into vehicles by threat of violence in the six attacks, which occurred in the city's Lakeview and Brighton Park neighborhoods and the community areas of North Lawndale and Belmont Cragin, court documents reveal.

Leondo Joseph, arrested Saturday night at his home in the 2500 block of North Halsted Street, is charged in all six attacks, according to records. LB Joseph is charged in the two most recent attacks — in 2011 and 2012. Both brothers also face aggravated kidnapping charges.

Chicago detectives linked the brothers to the assaults through Illinois State Police crime lab examinations of all six assaults, prosecutors said in court at the bond hearing. In addition, some victims have identified the brothers, and Leondo Joseph gave statements regarding some of the cases, prosecutors said.

The number of years covered by the assaults — nine — was noteworthy, though victim's advocates point out that rapists, including in acquaintance assaults, are often repeat offenders.

But the experts also pointed to the fact that Chicago police were not notified by the crime lab until this year that the 2012 case was linked to the other five attacks, which was critical information because in the 2012 attack, Chicago police stopped a vehicle carrying the two brothers, though they were not charged.

And even all your own examples aren't defendable:
In an August 2003 case in Lakeview, the victim was returning home from the bars when she encountered a man outside her building. He helped with her keys and then followed her up to her apartment, where she opened the door and he put his foot out to stop it from closing. She allowed him in for a drink, and he then refused to leave, became physical and sexually assaulted her, officials said.

Coming from the bar and let him in.

 

[2aguy]

Yes.....you get to show completed rapes because they happen.....I can't show all rapes stopped with guns...because they were stopped before they happened......if you gun grabbers didn't have luck, and gullible people, your agenda would never pass.....

So you can't. I didn't think so. What agenda is that?

Well...actual research on the subject shows that guns are the best way to stop a rape......

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape Womens Voice

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
Current Gun Laws Restrict Women's Defense

And again...to focus on the main point....

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

So again brain...you are wrong...the truth and reality do not bend to your fantasy world view....

There isn't much reality in a pro gun study.
Get the Facts - Rape Crisis Center
44% of victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.
66% committed by someone known to the victim, intimate, relative, friends.

Another 70% involve drugs and alcohol:
As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual activity primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, or to having sex they wouldn't have had if they had been sober.

UHS Tang Center

Then there are also women who are attacked while sleeping which isn't defendable with a gun...

So you see most aren't defendable with a gun.

And the truth and reality.....

Well...actual research on the subject shows that guns are the best way to stop a rape......

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape Womens Voice

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
Current Gun Laws Restrict Women's Defense

And again...to focus on the main point....

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Yes...it is better when a woman is attacked on a train, as has happened here in Chicago, or at a bus stop...again in Chicago...no alcohol, no boyfriend or frat boy...just violent sexual predators.....or in a building in Downtown Chicago...no alcohol or boyfriend.......or in colorado 50 feet from the campus police station, or the nurse in her own car who is later drowned by the 2 rapists in her own car....

No alcohol, not asleep, no boyfriend or aqcuaintance......

It is better these women are allowed to be raped than that they stop the rape with a gun...right brain?

Again, the vast majority aren't even defendable with a gun:
There isn't much reality in a pro gun study.
Get the Facts - Rape Crisis Center
44% of victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.
66% committed by someone known to the victim, intimate, relative, friends.

Another 70% involve drugs and alcohol:
As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual activity primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, or to having sex they wouldn't have had if they had been sober.

UHS Tang Center

Then there are also women who are attacked while sleeping which isn't defendable with a gun...

Yes...and the women raped in their cars, or taken from bus stops, or raped on trains, or kidnapped and raped in alleys, or 50 feet from the college campus police station...too bad for them........they should be allowed to be raped rather than allow them to stop the rape with a gun....which is the most effective way to stop a rape...of any kind........

they are just unlucky...and must quietly submit so gun grabbers can feel safe and superior to the rest of us...including the women violently raped.......

 

[2aguy]

And here we have rapes going back all the way to 2003 by two brothers who were not boyfriends of the victims, no alcohol, just violent physical assaults....

Chicago Tribune


Women were terrorized and sexually assaulted in their apartments or forced into vehicles by threat of violence in the six attacks, which occurred in the city's Lakeview and Brighton Park neighborhoods and the community areas of North Lawndale and Belmont Cragin, court documents reveal.

Leondo Joseph, arrested Saturday night at his home in the 2500 block of North Halsted Street, is charged in all six attacks, according to records. LB Joseph is charged in the two most recent attacks — in 2011 and 2012. Both brothers also face aggravated kidnapping charges.

Chicago detectives linked the brothers to the assaults through Illinois State Police crime lab examinations of all six assaults, prosecutors said in court at the bond hearing. In addition, some victims have identified the brothers, and Leondo Joseph gave statements regarding some of the cases, prosecutors said.

The number of years covered by the assaults — nine — was noteworthy, though victim's advocates point out that rapists, including in acquaintance assaults, are often repeat offenders.

But the experts also pointed to the fact that Chicago police were not notified by the crime lab until this year that the 2012 case was linked to the other five attacks, which was critical information because in the 2012 attack, Chicago police stopped a vehicle carrying the two brothers, though they were not charged.

And even all your own examples aren't defendable:
In an August 2003 case in Lakeview, the victim was returning home from the bars when she encountered a man outside her building. He helped with her keys and then followed her up to her apartment, where she opened the door and he put his foot out to stop it from closing. She allowed him in for a drink, and he then refused to leave, became physical and sexually assaulted her, officials said.

Com from the bar and let him in.

And had she been carrying a gun she could have stopped him....and before you say not possible....try reading actual stories of attacks stopped with guns...

Because we know how it turned out when she didn't have a gun on her....she was violently raped.....let's see...all 3 of your techniques for gun grabber self defense failed...

1) rely on the kindness of violent criminal rapists....failed

2) rely on the incompetence of violent criminal rapists...failed

3) rely on pure dumb luck to stop the violent criminal rapist...failed.

 

[Brain357]

So you can't. I didn't think so. What agenda is that?

Well...actual research on the subject shows that guns are the best way to stop a rape......

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape Womens Voice

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
Current Gun Laws Restrict Women's Defense

And again...to focus on the main point....

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

So again brain...you are wrong...the truth and reality do not bend to your fantasy world view....

There isn't much reality in a pro gun study.
Get the Facts - Rape Crisis Center
44% of victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.
66% committed by someone known to the victim, intimate, relative, friends.

Another 70% involve drugs and alcohol:
As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual activity primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, or to having sex they wouldn't have had if they had been sober.

UHS Tang Center

Then there are also women who are attacked while sleeping which isn't defendable with a gun...

So you see most aren't defendable with a gun.

And the truth and reality.....

Well...actual research on the subject shows that guns are the best way to stop a rape......

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape Womens Voice

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
Current Gun Laws Restrict Women's Defense

And again...to focus on the main point....

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Yes...it is better when a woman is attacked on a train, as has happened here in Chicago, or at a bus stop...again in Chicago...no alcohol, no boyfriend or frat boy...just violent sexual predators.....or in a building in Downtown Chicago...no alcohol or boyfriend.......or in colorado 50 feet from the campus police station, or the nurse in her own car who is later drowned by the 2 rapists in her own car....

No alcohol, not asleep, no boyfriend or aqcuaintance......

It is better these women are allowed to be raped than that they stop the rape with a gun...right brain?

Again, the vast majority aren't even defendable with a gun:
There isn't much reality in a pro gun study.
Get the Facts - Rape Crisis Center
44% of victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.
66% committed by someone known to the victim, intimate, relative, friends.

Another 70% involve drugs and alcohol:
As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual activity primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, or to having sex they wouldn't have had if they had been sober.

UHS Tang Center

Then there are also women who are attacked while sleeping which isn't defendable with a gun...

Yes...and the women raped in their cars, or taken from bus stops, or raped on trains, or kidnapped and raped in alleys, or 50 feet from the college campus police station...too bad for them........they should be allowed to be raped rather than allow them to stop the rape with a gun....which is the most effective way to stop a rape...of any kind........

they are just unlucky...and must quietly submit so gun grabbers can feel safe and superior to the rest of us...including the women violently raped.......

Sorry but gun is not always the answer. Again most rapes aren't defendable with a gun so guns are not the answer.

 

[2aguy]

And here we have rapes going back all the way to 2003 by two brothers who were not boyfriends of the victims, no alcohol, just violent physical assaults....

Chicago Tribune


Women were terrorized and sexually assaulted in their apartments or forced into vehicles by threat of violence in the six attacks, which occurred in the city's Lakeview and Brighton Park neighborhoods and the community areas of North Lawndale and Belmont Cragin, court documents reveal.

Leondo Joseph, arrested Saturday night at his home in the 2500 block of North Halsted Street, is charged in all six attacks, according to records. LB Joseph is charged in the two most recent attacks — in 2011 and 2012. Both brothers also face aggravated kidnapping charges.

Chicago detectives linked the brothers to the assaults through Illinois State Police crime lab examinations of all six assaults, prosecutors said in court at the bond hearing. In addition, some victims have identified the brothers, and Leondo Joseph gave statements regarding some of the cases, prosecutors said.

The number of years covered by the assaults — nine — was noteworthy, though victim's advocates point out that rapists, including in acquaintance assaults, are often repeat offenders.

But the experts also pointed to the fact that Chicago police were not notified by the crime lab until this year that the 2012 case was linked to the other five attacks, which was critical information because in the 2012 attack, Chicago police stopped a vehicle carrying the two brothers, though they were not charged.

And even all your own examples aren't defendable:
In an August 2003 case in Lakeview, the victim was returning home from the bars when she encountered a man outside her building. He helped with her keys and then followed her up to her apartment, where she opened the door and he put his foot out to stop it from closing. She allowed him in for a drink, and he then refused to leave, became physical and sexually assaulted her, officials said.

Coming from the bar and let him in.

And if she had a gun on her hip....she could have stopped the rape.....

 

[Brain357]

And here we have rapes going back all the way to 2003 by two brothers who were not boyfriends of the victims, no alcohol, just violent physical assaults....

Chicago Tribune


Women were terrorized and sexually assaulted in their apartments or forced into vehicles by threat of violence in the six attacks, which occurred in the city's Lakeview and Brighton Park neighborhoods and the community areas of North Lawndale and Belmont Cragin, court documents reveal.

Leondo Joseph, arrested Saturday night at his home in the 2500 block of North Halsted Street, is charged in all six attacks, according to records. LB Joseph is charged in the two most recent attacks — in 2011 and 2012. Both brothers also face aggravated kidnapping charges.

Chicago detectives linked the brothers to the assaults through Illinois State Police crime lab examinations of all six assaults, prosecutors said in court at the bond hearing. In addition, some victims have identified the brothers, and Leondo Joseph gave statements regarding some of the cases, prosecutors said.

The number of years covered by the assaults — nine — was noteworthy, though victim's advocates point out that rapists, including in acquaintance assaults, are often repeat offenders.

But the experts also pointed to the fact that Chicago police were not notified by the crime lab until this year that the 2012 case was linked to the other five attacks, which was critical information because in the 2012 attack, Chicago police stopped a vehicle carrying the two brothers, though they were not charged.

And even all your own examples aren't defendable:
In an August 2003 case in Lakeview, the victim was returning home from the bars when she encountered a man outside her building. He helped with her keys and then followed her up to her apartment, where she opened the door and he put his foot out to stop it from closing. She allowed him in for a drink, and he then refused to leave, became physical and sexually assaulted her, officials said.

Com from the bar and let him in.

And had she been carrying a gun she could have stopped him....and before you say not possible....try reading actual stories of attacks stopped with guns...

Because we know how it turned out when she didn't have a gun on her....she was violently raped.....let's see...all 3 of your techniques for gun grabber self defense failed...

1) rely on the kindness of violent criminal rapists....failed

2) rely on the incompetence of violent criminal rapists...failed

3) rely on pure dumb luck to stop the violent criminal rapist...failed.

She needed help with her keys. She wasn't going to defend herself with a gun. You must be joking.

 

[2aguy]

Well...actual research on the subject shows that guns are the best way to stop a rape......

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape Womens Voice

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
Current Gun Laws Restrict Women's Defense

And again...to focus on the main point....

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

So again brain...you are wrong...the truth and reality do not bend to your fantasy world view....

There isn't much reality in a pro gun study.
Get the Facts - Rape Crisis Center
44% of victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.
66% committed by someone known to the victim, intimate, relative, friends.

Another 70% involve drugs and alcohol:
As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual activity primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, or to having sex they wouldn't have had if they had been sober.

UHS Tang Center

Then there are also women who are attacked while sleeping which isn't defendable with a gun...

So you see most aren't defendable with a gun.

And the truth and reality.....

Well...actual research on the subject shows that guns are the best way to stop a rape......

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape Womens Voice

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
Current Gun Laws Restrict Women's Defense

And again...to focus on the main point....

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Yes...it is better when a woman is attacked on a train, as has happened here in Chicago, or at a bus stop...again in Chicago...no alcohol, no boyfriend or frat boy...just violent sexual predators.....or in a building in Downtown Chicago...no alcohol or boyfriend.......or in colorado 50 feet from the campus police station, or the nurse in her own car who is later drowned by the 2 rapists in her own car....

No alcohol, not asleep, no boyfriend or aqcuaintance......

It is better these women are allowed to be raped than that they stop the rape with a gun...right brain?

Again, the vast majority aren't even defendable with a gun:
There isn't much reality in a pro gun study.
Get the Facts - Rape Crisis Center
44% of victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.
66% committed by someone known to the victim, intimate, relative, friends.

Another 70% involve drugs and alcohol:
As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual activity primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, or to having sex they wouldn't have had if they had been sober.

UHS Tang Center

Then there are also women who are attacked while sleeping which isn't defendable with a gun...

Yes...and the women raped in their cars, or taken from bus stops, or raped on trains, or kidnapped and raped in alleys, or 50 feet from the college campus police station...too bad for them........they should be allowed to be raped rather than allow them to stop the rape with a gun....which is the most effective way to stop a rape...of any kind........

they are just unlucky...and must quietly submit so gun grabbers can feel safe and superior to the rest of us...including the women violently raped.......

Sorry but gun is not always the answer. Again most rapes aren't defendable with a gun so guns are not the answer.

Sorry, the gun is the answer for stranger rapes....and to deny women the ability to have a gun to stop a rape is criminal in and of itself....you are condemning these women to those rapes......

 

[Brain357]

There isn't much reality in a pro gun study.
Get the Facts - Rape Crisis Center
44% of victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.
66% committed by someone known to the victim, intimate, relative, friends.

Another 70% involve drugs and alcohol:
As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual activity primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, or to having sex they wouldn't have had if they had been sober.

UHS Tang Center

Then there are also women who are attacked while sleeping which isn't defendable with a gun...

So you see most aren't defendable with a gun.

And the truth and reality.....

Well...actual research on the subject shows that guns are the best way to stop a rape......

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape Womens Voice

This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together.

Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun.

Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.)

The former concludes, "Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.
Current Gun Laws Restrict Women's Defense

And again...to focus on the main point....

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

Yes...it is better when a woman is attacked on a train, as has happened here in Chicago, or at a bus stop...again in Chicago...no alcohol, no boyfriend or frat boy...just violent sexual predators.....or in a building in Downtown Chicago...no alcohol or boyfriend.......or in colorado 50 feet from the campus police station, or the nurse in her own car who is later drowned by the 2 rapists in her own car....

No alcohol, not asleep, no boyfriend or aqcuaintance......

It is better these women are allowed to be raped than that they stop the rape with a gun...right brain?

Again, the vast majority aren't even defendable with a gun:
There isn't much reality in a pro gun study.
Get the Facts - Rape Crisis Center
44% of victims are under 18 and can't have a gun.
66% committed by someone known to the victim, intimate, relative, friends.

Another 70% involve drugs and alcohol:
As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual activity primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, or to having sex they wouldn't have had if they had been sober.

UHS Tang Center

Then there are also women who are attacked while sleeping which isn't defendable with a gun...

Yes...and the women raped in their cars, or taken from bus stops, or raped on trains, or kidnapped and raped in alleys, or 50 feet from the college campus police station...too bad for them........they should be allowed to be raped rather than allow them to stop the rape with a gun....which is the most effective way to stop a rape...of any kind........

they are just unlucky...and must quietly submit so gun grabbers can feel safe and superior to the rest of us...including the women violently raped.......

Sorry but gun is not always the answer. Again most rapes aren't defendable with a gun so guns are not the answer.

Sorry, the gun is the answer for stranger rapes....and to deny women the ability to have a gun to stop a rape is criminal in and of itself....you are condemning these women to those rapes......

Again I have never suggest denying anyone a gun. I am telling you however guns aren't the answer as most aren't defendable with a gun. You see I want rapes to actually go down and you want to sell more guns for your agenda.