Tesla Semi

[Blues Man]

Tesla is taking orders for their electric semi truck now. They've shown a prototype.

This is Tesla’s big new all-electric truck – the Tesla Semi

300 mile or 500 mile range with a full load, 3 times the acceleration of a diesel truck, and independent computer-controlled motors on each of 4 wheels that make jackknifing nearly impossible.

Good move by Tesla. The mass market is where they should be concentrating. 80% of the semi fleet travels less than 250 miles a day, so that 80% is the market. Such vehicles can work during the day, then go the charging station at night, when the grid has the extra capacity.

Tesla hasn't stated the price. More expensive than a diesel truck, but Tesla says fuel and maintenance savings will make up the difference in cost in 2 years.

They can't carry as much as a Diesel semi can because the batteries are part of the gross vehicle weight

 

[Grumblenuts]

They can't carry as much as a Diesel semi can because the batteries are part of the gross vehicle weight

Yeah, it always amazed me how they managed to deduct the fuel weight at the scale house without even asking me what the gauge read.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Now you got me thinking.. Does a fully charged EV weigh more? Has anyone ever actually bothered to weigh one just to test this guy's old sand particle theory?

Weighty Matters Involving Electrons | Tesla

www.tesla.com

 

[mamooth]

Strange, so much necroing of a 4-year-old thread. Oh, I see. Westwall was getting pissy, so he brought it back.

If you've read my posts over the past 4 years, you'd know that I've become quite not-thrilled with Elon Musk and Tesla. I consider Musk to be a borderline scammer. Hyperloop and The Boring Company were a bad joke. Musk didn't even write the code for PayPal. He just bought the company. He's purely a businessman, and not any kind of tech guru. Tesla cars are overpriced, and the company has wasted many billions on self-driving features that don't work, just because Musk demands it. We're already several years past the point where Musk predicted millions of self-driving Teslas would be working as taxis.

Now, the semis. How much do they weigh, unladen? That is the key. Semis on US highways are limited to 40 tons total weight. There are other restrictions on weight-per-axle, but let's just look at that one.

A good guess is 25 tons for the 500-mile range truck.

An unladen diesel semi will be around 18 tons.

So, 15 tons of cargo on a tesla, 22 tons on a diesel. The diesel hauls 50% more cargo.

Cargo capacity is everything. "How fast does it do 0-60?" said no trucking company, ever. That means electric trucks (Tesla isn't the only one building them) start out as niche products.

 

[westwall]

Strange, so much necroing of a 4-year-old thread. Oh, I see. Westwall was getting pissy, so he brought it back.

If you've read my posts over the past 4 years, you'd know that I've become quite not-thrilled with Elon Musk and Tesla. I consider Musk to be a borderline scammer. Hyperloop and The Boring Company were a bad joke. Musk didn't even write the code for PayPal. He just bought the company. He's purely a businessman, and not any kind of tech guru. Tesla cars are overpriced, and the company has wasted many billions on self-driving features that don't work, just because Musk demands it. We're already several years past the point where Musk predicted millions of self-driving Teslas would be working as taxis.

Now, the semis. How much do they weigh, unladen? That is the key. Semis on US highways are limited to 40 tons total weight. There are other restrictions on weight-per-axle, but let's just look at that one.

A good guess is 25 tons for the 500-mile range truck.

An unladen diesel semi will be around 18 tons.

So, 15 tons of cargo on a tesla, 22 tons on a diesel. The diesel hauls 50% more cargo.

Cargo capacity is everything. "How fast does it do 0-60?" said no trucking company, ever. That means electric trucks (Tesla isn't the only one building them) start out as niche products.

You should try using math better. A vehicle traveling at 45 mph, is going to move more cargo than one that can do 65, but has to spend 30 minutes charging at zero mph.

 

[mamooth]

You should try using math better. A vehicle traveling at 45 mph, is going to move more cargo than one that can do 65,

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, since the vehicles will be traveling at the same speed.

but has to spend 30 minutes charging at zero mph.

Which is why I said niche product. If a truck is doing day runs, charging it at night results in no down time.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, since the vehicles will be traveling at the same speed.

If one vehicle drives for half an hour at 65 MPH, and then has to stop for half an hour to recharge, while another vehicle drives for that same total hour at 45 MPH, which one has the greater effective speed? Which one carried its cargo further in that hour? Which vehicle made more money for its owners?

 

[westwall]

If one vehicle drives for half an hour at 65 MPH, and then has to stop for half an hour to recharge, while another vehicle drives for that same total hour at 45 MPH, which one has the greater effective speed? Which one carried its cargo further in that hour? Which vehicle made more money for its owners?

And, which one starts out 50,000 in the hole compared to the other.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

And, which one starts out 50,000 in the hole compared to the other.

And which one can carry more cargo, because it doesn't have a big, heavy battery counting against its 80,000-pount limit?

But math is “racist”, and genuine science is “transphobic”, which is probably why the LIbtARdS in this thread are having so much trouble understanding all of this.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Keep in mind that Tesla has so far beaten its own expectations once models are finally delivered. Additionally, diesel truck fuel stops typically also take considerable time. Companies have generally required a 15 minute minimum logged on duty/not driving and the DOT can now easily verify fueling times and places whether or not one pays cash.

 

[Grumblenuts]

You should try using math better. A vehicle traveling at 45 mph, is going to move more cargo than one that can do 65, but has to spend 30 minutes charging at zero mph.

LOL. The one doing 65 can log doing 65 which allows them to legally drive much further per day, not to mention getting the job done easier and faster. You armchair experts really are a hoot with all your stabs in the dark.

 

[westwall]

LOL. The one doing 65 can log doing 65 which allows them to legally drive much further per day, not to mention getting the job done easier and faster. You armchair experts really are a hoot with all your stabs in the dark.

Clearly you don't understand math either. Typical leftist.

 

[Grumblenuts]

production is planned in 2023.[2]

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Tesla is taking orders for their electric semi truck now. They've shown a prototype.

This is Tesla’s big new all-electric truck – the Tesla Semi

300 mile or 500 mile range with a full load, 3 times the acceleration of a diesel truck, and independent computer-controlled motors on each of 4 wheels that make jackknifing nearly impossible.

Good move by Tesla. The mass market is where they should be concentrating. 80% of the semi fleet travels less than 250 miles a day, so that 80% is the market. Such vehicles can work during the day, then go the charging station at night, when the grid has the extra capacity.

Tesla hasn't stated the price. More expensive than a diesel truck, but Tesla says fuel and maintenance savings will make up the difference in cost in 2 years.

That piece of shit is going to be a maintenance money pit.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Couldn’t this be a case of don’t look over here look at this shiny object.

I learned today from a dot guy you can’t use water on a tesla car fire. I said what do you use then? Something that takes oxygen out of the air? Hope you aren’t caught in an overturned tesla vehicle on fire.

There is no info on the truck batteries. There is no price target. Delivery dates are fungible. Charging stations are nonexistent. Charging times are not available. Could ISIS have designed a better truck to commit terror with. Trust but verify.

The Tesla big truck weighs about 30,000 pounds. There's no way that's going to work...lol

 

[Bob Blaylock]

That piece of shit is going to be a maintenance money pit.

It shouldn't be.

One advantage that I have to grant to electric vehicles, is that on paper, at least, they ought to be much easier and cheaper to maintain. Anyone have any idea how many moving parts are in a typical internal combustion engine? I once tried to add up in my head, all the moving parts I could think of in the engine of the car that I had at the time—a 1996 Ford Contour with the 2.5-liter V6 engine. Pistons, connecting rods,, valve train components and such, multiplied by six cylinders. Crankshaft, camshafts, fuel pump, water pump, etc. I was somewhere around a hundred when I could think of no more moving parts.

I don't know enough about the anatomy of my current car to make a similar tally. It's only got four cylinders, but I know that the valve train is considerably more complex. And my next vehicle, ordered a few months ago, and estimated to arrive some time next year, will have six cylinders, and be even more complex than my present engine. The complexity of automobile engines has grown considerably since my first car, a 1969 Falcon with an inline six cylinder engine that was extraordinarily simple and primitive compared to anything modern.

Do you know how many moving parts a typical electric motor has?

One. It has one moving part.

And because it has a much broader power band than an internal combustion engine, and is electrically-reversible, it does not need nearly as complex a transmission, if any transmission at all.

Mechanically, an electric vehicle is much simpler than an internal-combustion-engined vehicle, in ways that ought to translate to a lower cost to manufacture in the first place, much greater reliability, and much, much less maintenance.

It's the battery that ruins everything. Too low in capacity, compared to a tank of gasoline. Too slow to charge, compared to pumping gasoline. Too short a usable life, and way too expensive to replace, when it wears out. Did you see the story of someone who protested the cost to replace the battery in his Tesla—I think it was about $22,000—by dynamiting his Tesla instead? The battery technology, and the technology and the infrastructure for charging it, is going to have to get much, much, much better than I have any reason to anticipate within my lifetime, before electric vehicles will be practical for most of us.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

It shouldn't be.

One advantage that I have to grant to electric vehicles, is that on paper, at least, they ought to be much easier and cheaper to maintain. Anyone have any idea how many moving parts are in a typical internal combustion engine? I once tried to add up in my head, all the moving parts I could think of in the engine of the car that I had at the time—a 1996 Ford Contour with the 2.5-liter V6 engine. Pistons, connecting rods,, valve train components and such, multiplied by six cylinders. Crankshaft, camshafts, fuel pump, water pump, etc. I was somewhere around a hundred when I could think of no more moving parts.

I don't know enough about the anatomy of my current car to make a similar tally. It's only got four cylinders, but I know that the valve train is considerably more complex. And my next vehicle, ordered a few months ago, and estimated to arrive some time next year, will have six cylinders, and be even more complex than my present engine. The complexity of automobile engines has grown considerably since my first car, a 1969 Falcon with an inline six cylinder engine that was extraordinarily simple and primitive compared to anything modern.

Do you know how many moving parts a typical electric motor has?

One. It has one moving part.

And because it has a much broader power band than an internal combustion engine, and is electrically-reversible, it does not need nearly as complex a transmission, if any transmission at all.

Mechanically, an electric vehicle is much simpler than an internal-combustion-engined vehicle, in ways that ought to translate to a lower cost to manufacture in the first place, much greater reliability, and much, much less maintenance.

It's the battery that ruins everything. Too low in capacity, compared to a tank of gasoline. Too slow to charge, compared to pumping gasoline. Too short a usable life, and way too expensive to replace, when it wears out. Did you see the story of someone who protested the cost to replace the battery in his Tesla—I think it was about $22,000—by dynamiting his Tesla instead? The battery technology, and the technology and the infrastructure for charging it, is going to have to get much, much, much better than I have any reason to anticipate within my lifetime, before electric vehicles will be practical for most of us.

The cost to find a qualified mechanic will be the killer, plus what moving parts it does have will cost a small fortune. Getting the parts in hand will cost a lot in down time. Down time is the biggest problem with a breakdown.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The Tesla big truck weighs about 30,000 pounds. There's no way that's going to work...lol

It occurs to me, among all the stuff that I know, I'm missing the actual weight of the tractor or trailer.

I know that the maximum limit on the gross weight of the vehicle and its cargo is 80,000 pounds.

I know that when I loaded trucks at the Campbell Soup factory, we were typically allowed to put 40,000 pounds of cargo in one truck.

I know that a day cab was about 2,000 pounds lighter, so we could put 42,000 pounds in a truck that had a day cab.

Contrariwise, a refrigerated trailer had an additional 2,000 pounds on the front of it for the refrigeration unit, so we could only put 18,000 pounds in one of those. Furthermore, the 2,000 pounds at the from affected how we had to distribute the weight of the cargo.

I had become the unofficial Keeper of the Trailer Loading Patterns. See the attached document.

That was some time ago. That factory shut down in 2013, and I was sent off to find a new career in a new profession.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

It occurs to me, among all the stuff that I know, I'm missing the actual weight of the tractor or trailer.

I know that the maximum limit on the gross weight of the vehicle and its cargo is 80,000 pounds.

I know that when I loaded trucks at the Campbell Soup factory, we were typically allowed to put 40,000 pounds of cargo in one truck.

I know that a day cab was about 2,000 pounds lighter, so we could put 42,000 pounds in a truck that had a day cab.

Contrariwise, a refrigerated trailer had an additional 2,000 pounds on the front of it for the refrigeration unit, so we could only put 18,000 pounds in one of those. Furthermore, the 2,000 pounds at the from affected how we had to distribute the weight of the cargo.

I had become the unofficial Keeper of the Trailer Loading Patterns. See the attached document.

That was some time ago. That factory shut down in 2013, and I was sent off to find a new career in a new profession.

I've seen two sources stating the weight of the Tesla tractor. One is 25k and another says 30k. A tractor pulling a reefer weighs 35k empty. A tandem axle truck can legally weigh 34k, a little more under certain circumstances. If the Tesla actually weighs that much, it won't be able to haul very much freight.

 

[Old Rocks]

It shouldn't be.

One advantage that I have to grant to electric vehicles, is that on paper, at least, they ought to be much easier and cheaper to maintain. Anyone have any idea how many moving parts are in a typical internal combustion engine? I once tried to add up in my head, all the moving parts I could think of in the engine of the car that I had at the time—a 1996 Ford Contour with the 2.5-liter V6 engine. Pistons, connecting rods,, valve train components and such, multiplied by six cylinders. Crankshaft, camshafts, fuel pump, water pump, etc. I was somewhere around a hundred when I could think of no more moving parts.

I don't know enough about the anatomy of my current car to make a similar tally. It's only got four cylinders, but I know that the valve train is considerably more complex. And my next vehicle, ordered a few months ago, and estimated to arrive some time next year, will have six cylinders, and be even more complex than my present engine. The complexity of automobile engines has grown considerably since my first car, a 1969 Falcon with an inline six cylinder engine that was extraordinarily simple and primitive compared to anything modern.

Do you know how many moving parts a typical electric motor has?

One. It has one moving part.

And because it has a much broader power band than an internal combustion engine, and is electrically-reversible, it does not need nearly as complex a transmission, if any transmission at all.

Mechanically, an electric vehicle is much simpler than an internal-combustion-engined vehicle, in ways that ought to translate to a lower cost to manufacture in the first place, much greater reliability, and much, much less maintenance.

It's the battery that ruins everything. Too low in capacity, compared to a tank of gasoline. Too slow to charge, compared to pumping gasoline. Too short a usable life, and way too expensive to replace, when it wears out. Did you see the story of someone who protested the cost to replace the battery in his Tesla—I think it was about $22,000—by dynamiting his Tesla instead? The battery technology, and the technology and the infrastructure for charging it, is going to have to get much, much, much better than I have any reason to anticipate within my lifetime, before electric vehicles will be practical for most of us.

You are wrong about useable life. Much higher than that of a diesel engine. That story was a hoot. There are people that repair those batteries for a lost less. 80% of truck routes are less than 500 miles, and very few loads are anywhere near to load limit of the truck.

"Fast forward to 2021, and it appears that the Tesla Semi’s payload will be comparable to a Class 8 diesel truck, according to the company’s Impact Report 2020.

There are two main reasons for that: Tesla has made significant advancements in battery technology since 2017, and US and EU regulators have since approved higher weight allowances for heavy-duty electric trucks.

Starting with the latter, Tesla’s Impact Report 2020 states that in the European Union, electric semi trucks are allowed to be 2 tonnes (4,400 lbs) heavier than diesel equivalents, while in the US the allowance is 0.9 tonnes (2,000 lbs)."

Tesla Semi Payload To Be At Least As High As For A Diesel Truck

Tesla says the Semi will have a payload "at least as high as it would be for a diesel truck" in its Impact Report 2020.

insideevs.com