Terrorist Who Killed 38 Israelis Appointed PA Adviser

[Sallow]

Begin was never listed as a terrorist and he was never on a terrorist watch list. Drop it, Seal.

What?

He sure as heck was..

Planning

The leaders of Haganah opposed the idea initially.[15] On July 1, 1946, Moshe Sneh, chief of the Haganah General Headquarters, sent a letter to the then leader of the Irgun, Menachem Begin, which instructed him to "carry out the operation at the 'chick'", code for the King David Hotel.[note 1] Despite this approval for the project, repeated delays in executing the operation were requested by the Haganah, in response to changes unfolding in the political situation. The plan was finalized between Amichai Paglin (Irgun alias 'Gidi'), Chief of Operations of the Irgun, and Itzhak Sadeh, commander of the Palmach.[5]
King David Hotel bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Source: List of Irgun attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia from 1944-48 under Begin's leadership. These are the civilian targets.

1946, October 31 Bombing of the British Embassy in Rome. Nearly half the building was destroyed and 3 people were injured. [33]
1947, September 26 4 British policemen killed in Irgun bank robbery. [34]
1947, December 11 13 killed in attack on Tireh, near Haifa [38]
1947, December 12 20 killed, 5 wounded by barrel bomb at Damascus Gate. [39]
1947, December 13 6 killed, 25 wounded by bombs outside Alhambra Cinema. [40]
1947, December 13 5 killed, 47 wounded by two bombs at Damascus Gate. [40]
1947, December 13 7 killed, 10 seriously injured in attack on Yehudiya. [40]
1947, December 16(ca) 10 killed by bomb at Noga Cinema in Jaffa. [41]
1947, December 29 14 Arabs killed by bomb in Jerusalem. [34][42]
1947, December 30 6 Arabs killed and, 42 injured by grenades at Haifa refinery, precipitating the Haifa Oil Refinery massacre, which lead to the Balad al-Shaykh massacre. [43]
1948, January 1 2 Arabs killed and 9 injured by shooting attack on cafe in Jaffa. [44]
1948, January 5 14 Arabs killed and 19 injured by truck bomb outside the 3-storey 'Serrani', Jaffa's built Ottoman Town Hall [45]
1948, January 7 20 Arabs killed by bomb at Jaffa Gate. [46][47]
1948, February 10 7 Arabs killed near Ras el Ain after selling cows in Tel Aviv [48]
1948, February 18 12 Arabs killed and 43 wounded at a marketplace in Ramla [49]

I think that qualifies under the definition.

Terrorists are not afforded the same equal protection as citizens who obey the law. You are comparing apples and oranges here.

Not at all.

Irgun was listed as a terrorist organization. Begin headed during the referenced amount of time. We just didn't have the same laws in the 1940's as we do now. In the end it comes down to the same thing: the winners get to legitimize their terrorism. It's white washed into freedom fighting.

Also Wikipedia is not a reliable source and I'd have to fact check dates and stories independently. People regularly visit those pages and alter the facts, add or detract, not a good source imo. - Jeri

You may not like Wikipedia - but each of those instances is sourced and can be independently verified.

Irgun targeted terrorists, not civilians. Your point doesn't have a point. - Jeremiah

 

[Sallow]

Begin was never listed as a terrorist and he was never on a terrorist watch list. Drop it, Seal.

The question is why not?

Many are on the list for doing less or nothing at all.

It seems that terrorist lists are no more than political name calling.

Because Begin never commited act of Terrorism nor was he on a Terrorist List.

The only people on the State Dept terrorist list are those who are known to have commited acts of terror. This requires documentation. Hamas is a terrorist organization. Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist organization. Hizbollah is a terrorist organization. CAIR is an unindicted Co - Conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation Trials and is a terrorist organization... getting through yet??

He may have not been considered a terrorist, in the US..but he sure was heck considered a terrorist by the brits. And many other countries.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Begin was never listed as a terrorist and he was never on a terrorist watch list. Drop it, Seal.

What?

He sure as heck was..

Planning

The leaders of Haganah opposed the idea initially.[15] On July 1, 1946, Moshe Sneh, chief of the Haganah General Headquarters, sent a letter to the then leader of the Irgun, Menachem Begin, which instructed him to "carry out the operation at the 'chick'", code for the King David Hotel.[note 1] Despite this approval for the project, repeated delays in executing the operation were requested by the Haganah, in response to changes unfolding in the political situation. The plan was finalized between Amichai Paglin (Irgun alias 'Gidi'), Chief of Operations of the Irgun, and Itzhak Sadeh, commander of the Palmach.[5]
King David Hotel bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No he wasn't.

 

[Sallow]

Terrorists are not afforded the same equal protection as citizens who obey the law. You are comparing apples and oranges here.

Not at all.

Irgun was listed as a terrorist organization. Begin headed during the referenced amount of time. We just didn't have the same laws in the 1940's as we do now. In the end it comes down to the same thing: the winners get to legitimize their terrorism. It's white washed into freedom fighting.

Also Wikipedia is not a reliable source and I'd have to fact check dates and stories independently. People regularly visit those pages and alter the facts, add or detract, not a good source imo. - Jeri

You may not like Wikipedia - but each of those instances is sourced and can be independently verified.

Irgun targeted terrorists, not civilians. Your point doesn't have a point. - Jeremiah

They targeted everyone.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

No they didn't.

 

[Coyote]

Terrorists are not afforded the same equal protection as citizens who obey the law. You are comparing apples and oranges here.

Not at all.

Irgun was listed as a terrorist organization. Begin headed during the referenced amount of time. We just didn't have the same laws in the 1940's as we do now. In the end it comes down to the same thing: the winners get to legitimize their terrorism. It's white washed into freedom fighting.

Also Wikipedia is not a reliable source and I'd have to fact check dates and stories independently. People regularly visit those pages and alter the facts, add or detract, not a good source imo. - Jeri

You may not like Wikipedia - but each of those instances is sourced and can be independently verified.

Irgun targeted terrorists, not civilians. Your point doesn't have a point. - Jeremiah

You don't know much about Irgun

Irgun Zvai Leumi or IZL - History and Origins of the Irgun (1937-1948)

Irgun’s activities in the late 1930s and 1940s included terrorist raids on civilian population centers such as markets, bus stations, hotels and pedestrian areas. The group's most lethal fuse was lit when Britain's Peel Commission concluded that the best solution to the Jewish-Palestinian problem in Palestine was partition, an option Irgun would not abide.​

 

[Sallow]

No they didn't.

Yeah..

91 people were killed, most of them being staff of the hotel or Secretariat: 21 were first-rank government officials; 49 were second-rank clerks, typists and messengers, junior members of the Secretariat, employees of the hotel and canteen workers; 13 were soldiers; 3 policemen; and 5 were members of the public. By nationality, there were 41 Arabs, 28 British citizens, 17 Palestinian Jews, 2 Armenians, 1 Russian, 1 Greek and 1 Egyptian. 46 people were injured.[4][5] Some of the deaths and injuries occurred in the road outside the hotel and in adjacent buildings. No identifiable traces were found of thirteen of those killed.[4] One of the dead was Yulius Jacobs, an Irgun sympathizer.[17]

They did.

 

[MHunterB]

"israeli jews are not terrorists despite their actions. arabs are, no matter what their actions. "

Perhaps you believe that that is the view of some posters here, but certainly it isn't mine or Lipush's. Why don't you ASK everyone if they agree with that quote?

And meanwhile: does something Israel didn't exactly even do a couple of decades ago excuse poor behavior by Palestinians? I don't think so - seems that you do. It also suggests to many that Palestinians currently aren't terribly focused on achieving peaceful coexistence with an Israel of any size or dimensions : ((

there are lies by commission and lies by omission.

you omitted the context.

nothing really justifies poor behaviour, although you and i probably have a different definition of poor behaviour. your definition seems to be that of an advocate for the well armed and powerful. mine is that of an advocate for those who fight for their precious freedom and dignity with whatever meager means available.

Context? No context is going to excuse suggesting anyone here has the view expressed by your bolded words above.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Begin was never listed as a terrorist and he was never on a terrorist watch list. Drop it, Seal.

he was on G-d's terrorist list but even worse than that, he was on mine.

you do know, don't you, that he never accepted jesus as his saviour.

he now resides in the hottest part of hell with a lease longer than eternity.

and G-d looked down at all he had done and said it was good.

i just laughed.

Wrong! Begin is surely enjoying his reward and chatting it up with Abraham and Moses right now. He was a good Jewish man. G-d is surely enjoying the company of his son up there right now. ( Begin ) Don't you worry your pretty little head about it, Seal. - Jeremiah

 

[Coyote]

More:


Menachem Begin (Irgun Zvei Leumi)

Begin's notoriety may be found in an extraordinary career that spanned terrorism to statesmanship to winning the Nobel Peace Prize. Many believe that the attacks carried out under Begin's leadership of a Jewish militia, the Irgun, helped hasten the British withdrawal from mandate Palestine, and the establishment of the Jewish state of Israel.

The labeling of Begin as a terrorist is based on his activities against the British government in Palestine in the mid-1940s. Perhaps unsurprisingly, it was the British who first labeled Begin a terrorist. This label lost much of its force in the late 1970s, when Begin became Israel's prime minister. Today, whether he was a terrorist or not is still debated.​

He was on a terrorist list. He was labeled a terrorist. And, like the Palestinians - he became a political leader. Unlike the Palestinians - Israel won their state and as the victor, gained the right to define Begin as they wish.

The honoring of Begin by Israeli's is no different than what the Palestinians are doing and the hypocrisy of the outrage is laughable.

 

[Coyote]

"israeli jews are not terrorists despite their actions. arabs are, no matter what their actions. "

Perhaps you believe that that is the view of some posters here, but certainly it isn't mine or Lipush's. Why don't you ASK everyone if they agree with that quote?

And meanwhile: does something Israel didn't exactly even do a couple of decades ago excuse poor behavior by Palestinians? I don't think so - seems that you do. It also suggests to many that Palestinians currently aren't terribly focused on achieving peaceful coexistence with an Israel of any size or dimensions : ((

there are lies by commission and lies by omission.

you omitted the context.

nothing really justifies poor behaviour, although you and i probably have a different definition of poor behaviour. your definition seems to be that of an advocate for the well armed and powerful. mine is that of an advocate for those who fight for their precious freedom and dignity with whatever meager means available.

Context? No context is going to excuse suggesting anyone here has the view expressed by your bolded words above.

Actually, I think in this thread we are seeing that view expressed (not by you) by some here.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Not at all.

Irgun was listed as a terrorist organization. Begin headed during the referenced amount of time. We just didn't have the same laws in the 1940's as we do now. In the end it comes down to the same thing: the winners get to legitimize their terrorism. It's white washed into freedom fighting.




You may not like Wikipedia - but each of those instances is sourced and can be independently verified.

Irgun targeted terrorists, not civilians. Your point doesn't have a point. - Jeremiah

You don't know much about Irgun

Irgun Zvai Leumi or IZL - History and Origins of the Irgun (1937-1948)

Irgun’s activities in the late 1930s and 1940s included terrorist raids on civilian population centers such as markets, bus stations, hotels and pedestrian areas. The group's most lethal fuse was lit when Britain's Peel Commission concluded that the best solution to the Jewish-Palestinian problem in Palestine was partition, an option Irgun would not abide.​

Give me a break here! As if terrorists didn't hide among civilian populations at markets, bus stations, hotels and the like.... you must be kidding me here.. next thing you'll be claiming is you didn't know Hamas was posing as "fishermen" while firing on IDF and trespassing into Israeli waters! These people are masters at disguise! Anything to prop up their usual propaganda nonsense! Right?

-Jeri

 

[Coyote]

Irgun targeted terrorists, not civilians. Your point doesn't have a point. - Jeremiah

You don't know much about Irgun

Irgun Zvai Leumi or IZL - History and Origins of the Irgun (1937-1948)

Irgun’s activities in the late 1930s and 1940s included terrorist raids on civilian population centers such as markets, bus stations, hotels and pedestrian areas. The group's most lethal fuse was lit when Britain's Peel Commission concluded that the best solution to the Jewish-Palestinian problem in Palestine was partition, an option Irgun would not abide.​

Give me a break here! As if terrorists didn't hide among civilian populations at markets, bus stations, hotels and the like.... you must be kidding me here.. next thing you'll be claiming is you didn't know Hamas was posing as "fishermen" while firing on IDF and trespassing into Israeli waters! These people are masters at disguise! Anything to prop up their usual propaganda nonsense! Right?

-Jeri

We're talking about history here Jeri, not your ever-evolving personal definition of terrorism

Admit it. Irgun was a terrorist organization and Begin an old terrorist just like his buddy Arafat.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

More:


Menachem Begin (Irgun Zvei Leumi)

Begin's notoriety may be found in an extraordinary career that spanned terrorism to statesmanship to winning the Nobel Peace Prize. Many believe that the attacks carried out under Begin's leadership of a Jewish militia, the Irgun, helped hasten the British withdrawal from mandate Palestine, and the establishment of the Jewish state of Israel.

The labeling of Begin as a terrorist is based on his activities against the British government in Palestine in the mid-1940s. Perhaps unsurprisingly, it was the British who first labeled Begin a terrorist. This label lost much of its force in the late 1970s, when Begin became Israel's prime minister. Today, whether he was a terrorist or not is still debated.​

He was on a terrorist list. He was labeled a terrorist. And, like the Palestinians - he became a political leader. Unlike the Palestinians - Israel won their state and as the victor, gained the right to define Begin as they wish.

The honoring of Begin by Israeli's is no different than what the Palestinians are doing and the hypocrisy of the outrage is laughable.

No he wasn't. He was thought to be one by a few British folks, so what?!! He won the Nobel Peace prize and was a true hero of the Israeli people. Opinions don't equate to documented facts which is what we have in the case of the terrorist appointed to PA as Advisor while we can find no such example of Israeli govt appointing terrorists to advisory positions STILL. The fact is you have posted the truth in that whether he was a terrorist or not is still debated ( by a few ) but nothing has ever been substaniated to confirm such a charge. Not so for your brand new PA Advisor. He's on record - and listed as an Islamic Terrorist. I rest my case. - Jeri

 

[Coyote]

More:


Menachem Begin (Irgun Zvei Leumi)

Begin's notoriety may be found in an extraordinary career that spanned terrorism to statesmanship to winning the Nobel Peace Prize. Many believe that the attacks carried out under Begin's leadership of a Jewish militia, the Irgun, helped hasten the British withdrawal from mandate Palestine, and the establishment of the Jewish state of Israel.

The labeling of Begin as a terrorist is based on his activities against the British government in Palestine in the mid-1940s. Perhaps unsurprisingly, it was the British who first labeled Begin a terrorist. This label lost much of its force in the late 1970s, when Begin became Israel's prime minister. Today, whether he was a terrorist or not is still debated.​

He was on a terrorist list. He was labeled a terrorist. And, like the Palestinians - he became a political leader. Unlike the Palestinians - Israel won their state and as the victor, gained the right to define Begin as they wish.

The honoring of Begin by Israeli's is no different than what the Palestinians are doing and the hypocrisy of the outrage is laughable.

No he wasn't. He was thought to be one by a few British folks, so what?!! He won the Nobel Peace prize and was a true hero of the Israeli people. Opinions don't equate to documented facts which is what we have in the case of the terrorist appointed to PA as Advisor while we can find no such example of Israeli govt appointing terrorists to advisory positions STILL. The fact is you have posted the truth in that whether he was a terrorist or not is still debated ( by a few ) but nothing has ever been substaniated to confirm such a charge. Not so for your brand new PA Advisor. He's on record - and listed as an Islamic Terrorist. I rest my case. - Jeri

Be careful what you're resting on...your case is rapidly decomposing.

Arafat won the Nobel Peace prize.

Begin was listed as a terrorist.

Under his leadership Irgun committed acts that would be defined as terrorism by today's standards.

What more do you need?

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You don't know much about Irgun

Irgun Zvai Leumi or IZL - History and Origins of the Irgun (1937-1948)

Irgun’s activities in the late 1930s and 1940s included terrorist raids on civilian population centers such as markets, bus stations, hotels and pedestrian areas. The group's most lethal fuse was lit when Britain's Peel Commission concluded that the best solution to the Jewish-Palestinian problem in Palestine was partition, an option Irgun would not abide.​

Give me a break here! As if terrorists didn't hide among civilian populations at markets, bus stations, hotels and the like.... you must be kidding me here.. next thing you'll be claiming is you didn't know Hamas was posing as "fishermen" while firing on IDF and trespassing into Israeli waters! These people are masters at disguise! Anything to prop up their usual propaganda nonsense! Right?

-Jeri

We're talking about history here Jeri, not your ever-evolving personal definition of terrorism

Admit it. Irgun was a terrorist organization and Begin an old terrorist just like his buddy Arafat.

Not on your life. I own this one and you know it. Begin was a legitimate winner of the Nobel Peace Prize whereas your boy, Arafat got his Nobel in the hopes it would give him a little inspiration to knock off the terror show. Obviously that plan didn't work anymore than giving Obama the Nobel for nothing did. - Jeri

 

[sealadaigh]

"israeli jews are not terrorists despite their actions. arabs are, no matter what their actions. "

Perhaps you believe that that is the view of some posters here, but certainly it isn't mine or Lipush's. Why don't you ASK everyone if they agree with that quote?

And meanwhile: does something Israel didn't exactly even do a couple of decades ago excuse poor behavior by Palestinians? I don't think so - seems that you do. It also suggests to many that Palestinians currently aren't terribly focused on achieving peaceful coexistence with an Israel of any size or dimensions : ((

there are lies by commission and lies by omission.

you omitted the context.

nothing really justifies poor behaviour, although you and i probably have a different definition of poor behaviour. your definition seems to be that of an advocate for the well armed and powerful. mine is that of an advocate for those who fight for their precious freedom and dignity with whatever meager means available.

Context? No context is going to excuse suggesting anyone here has the view expressed by your bolded words above.

give it a rest maggie. the context surrounding it would indicate i was being facetious, mocking the mantra of many zionist posters who are constantly excusing jewish israelis but blaming arabs and muslims for everything.

read this thread. not one pro-palestinian poster has excused fayyad even though his part in the coastal road attack while zionist/jews are tripping all over themselves to defend a man who destroys countries and kills everything in sight.

and we haven't even gotten to sharon or netanyahu.

P F is right...political name calling and a soon to become worthless word, following the lead sent by "anti-semitism" and "jew hater".

 

[sealadaigh]

Begin was never listed as a terrorist and he was never on a terrorist watch list. Drop it, Seal.

he was on G-d's terrorist list but even worse than that, he was on mine.

you do know, don't you, that he never accepted jesus as his saviour.

he now resides in the hottest part of hell with a lease longer than eternity.

and G-d looked down at all he had done and said it was good.

i just laughed.

Wrong! Begin is surely enjoying his reward and chatting it up with Abraham and Moses right now. He was a good Jewish man. G-d is surely enjoying the company of his son up there right now. ( Begin ) Don't you worry your pretty little head about it, Seal. - Jeremiah

you presume god's judgement.

boy, you start out right at the top of the deadly sinlist with pride, doncha?

got any more you want to put on display for all the honest world to feel.

god won't like it and i don't like it.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Frankly I don't care what you don't like.

I've studied the Torah. You haven't. I believe I see the heart of G-d for Begin. That is his son and he loves him. He is not in hell. I am so sick of you self righteous nutcases telling the Jews they are going to hell! Say what you will but not in G-ds name! Got it??! - Jeri