Terri Schiavo and Jahi McMath: Govt IN or OUT of health care programs?

[Truthmatters]

what did the courts decide

 

[Vox]

Judges should not be making medical decisions. However, sometimes they will be right, as the judge was in the case of the child trying to get a lung transpant of adult lungs and sometimes they will be wrong as the judge was in this case.

No, he was not RIGHT.

That judge's decision is actually one of the most detrimental blows to the FAIR transplantology as it was known until that decision.

Now people with money and/or connections will get the transplant, because they will be able to hire a lawyer, the ones without it - will be dumped.

Before - the FAIR assessment was the decision maker.
The lungs of an adult should not have been wasted on a 10 year old.

That ruling actually changed the rule. It used to he that children under 12 would automatically be denied transplant of adult lungs. That rule (there never was a law) was already being challenged based on advances in transplantation. It is now on a case by case basis in the judgment of the transplant team. In transplantation someone is always going to live and someone else die.

it did not change the rule, it made an exception for the girl and the other boy.
the rule is still up to the medical body to decide.

and there is quite a set of the reasons why the cut-off age is 12, not 10.

The lungs were wasted in both cases as neither of the kids is going to live past 15.

 

[Truthmatters]

Terri Schiavo case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


After all attempts at appeals through the federal court system upheld the original decision to remove the feeding tube, staff at the Pinellas Park hospice facility where Terri was being cared for disconnected the feeding tube on March 18, 2005, and she died on March 31, 2005

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I heard on the news that Jahai's corpse had some internal degeneration which may be an infection. Naturally her dead body won't make antibodies. Quite possibly decomposition has already started.

The entire organism dies simultaneously.

Not just the brain.

That's why Jahai is all dead with machines assuming some bodily functions.

Make up your mind.

You can't pretend to be an authority on everything if you keep changing your "mind".

 

[Vox]

Terry Shiavo was an adult who had stated in LIFE what her wishes were.


those wishes needed to be honored don't you think?

No she DID NOT.

It was a lie her greedy husband maintained, but there was not ever a proof of it.

her sister and other relatives stated quite to the contrary

Prove he and his wife never discussed it

I don't have to prove anything.
His girlfriend already did.
the girlfriend he was having during the first year after the "accident" which, most probably, was also HIS cause.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Terri Schiavo case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


After all attempts at appeals through the federal court system upheld the original decision to remove the feeding tube, staff at the Pinellas Park hospice facility where Terri was being cared for disconnected the feeding tube on March 18, 2005, and she died on March 31, 2005

This is why we must get it on paper.

There will always be meddlers wanting to take control of your life AND your death.

 

[Vox]

The entire organism dies simultaneously.

Not just the brain.

That's why Jahai is all dead with machines assuming some bodily functions.

Make up your mind.

You can't pretend to be an authority on everything if you keep changing your "mind".

it is simply you are too stupid to understand what is being told.

Katzndogz is absolutely correct. Jahai is DEAD as she is brain dead.

but people so ignorant as you are can not comprehend the basics.

 

[Vox]

I heard on the news that Jahai's corpse had some internal degeneration which may be an infection. Naturally her dead body won't make antibodies. Quite possibly decomposition has already started.

The entire organism dies simultaneously.

Not just the brain.

and it did. turn off the vent - and the body is dead in 5 minutes.

 

[Vox]

I heard on the news that Jahai's corpse had some internal degeneration which may be an infection. Naturally her dead body won't make antibodies. Quite possibly decomposition has already started.

it is tracheomalacia. usually the tracheostomy is performed for a prolonged ventilation.
and even with a trach the microcirculation is impaired and the decompositions is slowly progressing. it is just the death extended for weeks, but it is still death

 

[Luddly Neddite]

That's why Jahai is all dead with machines assuming some bodily functions.

Make up your mind.

You can't pretend to be an authority on everything if you keep changing your "mind".

it is simply you are too stupid to understand what is being told.

Katzndogz is absolutely correct. Jahai is DEAD as she is brain dead.

but people so ignorant as you are can not comprehend the basics.

That is not what he/she/it said and its not what I was responding to. See above.

Keep up or shut up.

Preferably the latter because you are not the authority you pretend to be either.

 

[emilynghiem]

Judges should not be making medical decisions. However, sometimes they will be right, as the judge was in the case of the child trying to get a lung transpant of adult lungs and sometimes they will be wrong as the judge was in this case.

Gee, how did THAT case require court intervention?
Wasn't it enough to get doctors and professional advice?

If the parents/family didn't trust the institutions that were advising them,
that's another reason they should have their own community or affiliations
set up health programs and professionals that they DO trust.

I do realize that some people rely on govt authority and don't trust private
groups to run health care; but likewise, those who "don't trust govt" should
have equal choice to fund private institutions they DO trust to the equivalent degree.

I still do not believe that those who believe in govt authority on private programs
should force people to pay taxes or be under that who believe in representing themselves
and their own policies and taking responsibility for paying for that as well.

The same way liberals believe in separating church and state, the conservatives believe in separating federal govt from state's and people's rights, and should be equally respected for their beliefs as the secular population demands!

 

[emilynghiem]

Not just govt that should not be part of health decisions.

(And, PLEASE, do not introduce the rw lie that health care under ACA is controlled by government. If that lie is brought into this, I will ignore it.)

We need to do away with all health care insurance companies.

OK let's stick to where we agree or close to it.
I do agree we need to get the insurance companies out of the ACA.

I believe in keeping the free choice, not necessary getting rid of them by force of law.

I would be happy to work with coalitions of people against the intrusion of insurance mandates into the ACA, and work with all institutions and resources to set up either
A. affordable health care provisions by developing more medical education facilities and programs, such as internships where medical students can cover education costs by serving in public health
B. ways to convert public housing and correctional facilities into teaching hospitals to create jobs for Veterans and interns serving in public health for all citizens (not just state funds paying for inmates and committed mental health patients who have become wards)
C. promoting medical research into effective natural healing methods to reduce the costs of crime and disease, so that saving resources means providing care to more of the population per state

Luddly how would you see converting the current ACA and/or insurance exchanges into medical and health care provisions, centers and outreach?

Which groups/institutions would you work with?

Which models would you propose to replace the given systems?

Thanks Luddly
Your comments have been very helpful where you give specific points or objections I can follow. Thanks for this!

 

[Vox]

Make up your mind.

You can't pretend to be an authority on everything if you keep changing your "mind".

it is simply you are too stupid to understand what is being told.

Katzndogz is absolutely correct. Jahai is DEAD as she is brain dead.

but people so ignorant as you are can not comprehend the basics.

That is not what he/she/it said and its not what I was responding to. See above.

Keep up or shut up.

Preferably the latter because you are not the authority you pretend to be either.

STFU, ignorant idiot.

 

[Truthmatters]

No she DID NOT.

It was a lie her greedy husband maintained, but there was not ever a proof of it.

her sister and other relatives stated quite to the contrary

Prove he and his wife never discussed it

I don't have to prove anything.
His girlfriend already did.
the girlfriend he was having during the first year after the "accident" which, most probably, was also HIS cause.

I guess the courts didn't see it your way huh.

 

[Vox]

Judges should not be making medical decisions. However, sometimes they will be right, as the judge was in the case of the child trying to get a lung transpant of adult lungs and sometimes they will be wrong as the judge was in this case.

Gee, how did THAT case require court intervention?
Wasn't it enough to get doctors and professional advice?

If the parents/family didn't trust the institutions that were advising them,
that's another reason they should have their own community or affiliations
set up health programs and professionals that they DO trust.

I do realize that some people rely on govt authority and don't trust private
groups to run health care; but likewise, those who "don't trust govt" should
have equal choice to fund private institutions they DO trust to the equivalent degree.

I still do not believe that those who believe in govt authority on private programs
should force people to pay taxes or be under that who believe in representing themselves
and their own policies and taking responsibility for paying for that as well.

The same way liberals believe in separating church and state, the conservatives believe in separating federal govt from state's and people's rights, and should be equally respected for their beliefs as the secular population demands!

getting the judicial interventions in medical management will make the previously FAIR system ( as was transplant organ allocations) prone to corruption - people who have money for a lawyer will object anything and since judges are ignorant on medical nuances and therefore judges generally to not treat people - doctors do, and doctors usually to not make court rulings and it would be better to stay that way.

however, the precedent has happened and now ANY transplant list is prone to be challenged in court - which will eventually make the whole working fairly system to be corrupt and based on who knows whom.

That was the reason I withdrew my organ donation possibility.

 

[Vox]

Prove he and his wife never discussed it

I don't have to prove anything.
His girlfriend already did.
the girlfriend he was having during the first year after the "accident" which, most probably, was also HIS cause.

I guess the courts didn't see it your way huh.

i don't care what courts did.

still doesn't change the fact the greedy husband was simply hunting for the money.

Or you consider a judge order to be infallible?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Judges should not be making medical decisions. However, sometimes they will be right, as the judge was in the case of the child trying to get a lung transpant of adult lungs and sometimes they will be wrong as the judge was in this case.

Gee, how did THAT case require court intervention?
Wasn't it enough to get doctors and professional advice?

If the parents/family didn't trust the institutions that were advising them,
that's another reason they should have their own community or affiliations
set up health programs and professionals that they DO trust.

I do realize that some people rely on govt authority and don't trust private
groups to run health care; but likewise, those who "don't trust govt" should
have equal choice to fund private institutions they DO trust to the equivalent degree.

I still do not believe that those who believe in govt authority on private programs
should force people to pay taxes or be under that who believe in representing themselves
and their own policies and taking responsibility for paying for that as well.

The same way liberals believe in separating church and state, the conservatives believe in separating federal govt from state's and people's rights, and should be equally respected for their beliefs as the secular population demands!

getting the judicial interventions in medical management will make the previously FAIR system ( as was transplant organ allocations) prone to corruption - people who have money for a lawyer will object anything and since judges are ignorant on medical nuances and therefore judges generally to not treat people - doctors do, and doctors usually to not make court rulings and it would be better to stay that way.

however, the precedent has happened and now ANY transplant list is prone to be challenged in court - which will eventually make the whole working fairly system to be corrupt and based on who knows whom.

That was the reason I withdrew my organ donation possibility.

Boy, you are a real piece of work.