Ted Cruz Wants Background Check On Supporters Before They Can Shoot With Him

[2aguy]

Background checks do not stop any crime....guns are either bought by people who can pass background checks...in 5 minutes...and then passed to criminals, or the guns are stolen.......background checks do absolutely nothing to stop criminals from getting guns

So, what you are saying is that criminals should be allowed to purchase guns. Correct? Do you think pedophiles should be allowed to work in day care centers? What is preventing them from doing so now?

......and they didn't stop one mass shooter either...

So, to get this straight. Every law according to you MUST prevent all crimes that it was created to prevent or we toss it out? Kind of an impossible standard.

not the underage kids at columbine or the Navy Yard shooter, the Santa Barbara shooter who went through 3 separate background checks for his 3 guns, the 2 Fort Hood Shooters, the Virginia Tech shooter, the colorado theater shooter.......see the point....?

I'm sure there are a lot of lawfully purchases guns used in horrible crimes. That's really not a positive argument for someone who is pro gun. Are you saying that every gun purchase should require a clean mental health history? Sure sounds like it. I'm only asking for 5 minutes so the everyday/run of the mill criminal can't walk into a Walmart and buy a gun. Of course that would require a real background check system. I as a gun owner would appreciate if the nut jobs had as difficult time as possible trying to get their hands on one.

It is against the law for criminals to purchase guns right now....you realize that...right? and background checks do nothing to stop that...right?

it is against the law. I kind of like the idea of them not being able to easily subvert the law and if it requires me to wait an additional 5 minutes then I'm fine. You on the other hand want criminals to ignore whatever the law is, walk into a gun store and buy whatever they want.

The only gun control that works is when a criminal uses a gun in a crime, you arrest them and lock them up for a long time. This sounds like a common sense idea, but the state and federal government are not locking up gun criminals.....they use guns as a bargaining chip...which is why you see these killers out on the street even though in the news story you will read "Previous weapons violations..."

I think when someone is arrested for any violent crime to include domestic violence then their guns are taken away from them whether they used them in whatever crime they were charged with or not. You on the other hand just want to wait until they use them, when it's too late.

If you really want to stop gun crime you have to focus on criminals, not peaceful, law abiding citizens.

Which is exactly what background checks do.

No...what you need to understand is that background checks do not stop gun crime...at all....what the gun grabbers believe is that background checks stop criminals from getting guns...and that is not true. Now, because criminals still get guns they want "Universal Background checks" which will be bypassed the same ways that the current background checks are bypassed....but....it will trip up regular citizens who don't know the law...which is the real point....they want to make buying a gun legally risky, and inconvenient for normal people....

You can take someone's drivers license away but if they really want to drive they are going to do so, that doesn't mean laws are unnecessary. Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns. No need to make it easy for them and it doesn't infringe on anyone else owning guns.

You are wrong on all counts including what you claim to think I want....I don't mind the current background system at gun stores...it doesn't keep guns out of the hands of criminals and it wrongly stops more law abiding citizens from getting guns than it does criminals...but the gun grabbers wanted it and I will meet them on that point......but again..it does not stop criminals from getting guns and is more likely to stop a law abiding citizen than a criminal.....

it stops about 70k gun purchases per year mostly due to previous felony convictions. It's only about 1% of all gun sales but that's probably likely due to most people with a criminal conviction won't bother going to a gun store to buy a gun...cuz they shouldn't be able. to.

What you fail to realize is that anti gun activists don't focus on criminals getting guns...if they did they would push for long prison sentences for criminals using guns in crimes or convicted felons caught in possession of guns...and they don't do that.....they worry more about peaceful, law abiding citizens having access to guns...that is why they focus on background checks, registration and magazine limits...all things the criminals ignore but law abiding citizens obey....

Usually using a gun in the act of a crime has higher penalty. What are you talking about? You don't think people who want background checks also want stiffer penalties for people who use guns in a crime? That's an interesting point of view and while you say background checks hurt legal gun owners (at least I think we were saying that earlier) you haven't expanded on that.

Statistics show that more innocent people are caught up in bad background checks than criminals.....and of those criminals caught by background checks, only a handful are ever brought to trial....so much for background checks....

Link?

Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns.

And in countries that do not allow regular people to own guns....no background checks needed because they can't own guns in the first place, no gun stores.....like the laws of France, Belgium and the other European countries, their criminals get guns when they want or need them easily...again...so much for background checks....just ask the 3 terrorists in France, 2 on government terrorist watch lists and one a convicted felon...they got fully automatic rifles, grenades, full size pistols, and a rocket propelled grenade launcher in a country with extreme gun control laws, they crossed an international border 2 times, to get into another country with extreme gun control laws....and purchased those weapons in a train station...recrossing the international border to reenter France with the extreme gun control laws.....

Fully automatic weapons are mostly illegal here, how many have been used in crimes as compared to semis? I'm not sure what your point is unless you are saying that now all fully automatic weapons should be legal because on occasion they are used in crimes? That's kind of a dumb idea. You seem to think that a law is only successful if it prevents 100% of the crimes it was enacted for. It's a ridiculously impossible standard that no law should ever be put to.

Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns.

We currently have background checks for gun sales...and criminals and mass shooters get around them easily...more easily than regular citizens who want to buy the guns legally.....

Yes, they do. But why make it easy for them?

The woman in New Jersey was killed while she waited for her background check and permitting process to go through...and she was killed with a knife....

So? You're kind of moving the goal posts, that is a waiting period. I've never had to wait more than 5 minutes to buy a gun. Waiting periods are something else entirely. You should know this.

You on the other hand just want to wait until they use them, when it's too late.

Waiting until they use them is the only way to stop them.....the "Pre-crime" laws from the Tom Cruise movie "Minority Report" cannot, and do not stop gun crime...again...none of the measures the anti gunners support...background checks, gun and owner licensing, gun registration, and magazine limits....none of them stops gun crime before they happen....but that is the focus of anti gunners....

I'm sorry, you're talking about a Tom Cruise movie set in the future? I'm saying if someone is convicted of ANY violent crimes then they lose their privilege to own guns. Yes, the cops come to that person's house and confiscates them forever. They are then obviously barred from legally purchasing a gun. You have a problem with that because of a bad movie plot line?

I want real gun control...when a criminal uses a gun for a crime they go away for a long prison sentence...unlike now....focus on that, and you will actually cut down on gun crime...anything else is just meant to infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens.....

That kind of already exists. When a gun is used in a crime often times the penalty is increased. I've got no problem with that but I'm also saying they never get to own a gun again and if they try to buy one the legal way they are denied, why won't the NRA let you actually have a common sense opinion?

Keep our current background check system.....forget "universal background checks" because they would be easily avoided by criminals and the only people caught would be people selling guns without knowing about the need for a Universal Background check...

I want background checks in place to quickly review local, state and federal criminal records for all gun purchases. And people selling guns would need to be responsible enough to ensure those checks were in place for all gun sales. It's called taking responsibility, if they fail they lost their right to ever sell guns again. Fuck them.

Use actual police work to catch criminals trafficking in illegal guns like they do for illegal drugs...send in cops to gun stores and gun shows to try to buy guns without the current background checks.....let private sellers know the cop "can't pass a background check" and if he continues the sale arrest them....

"use actual police work...." what? Let's use technology and common sense rather than these stupid talking points. Sure, send cops in under cover to ensure gun sellers are following the law but let's have a system in place to weed out criminals from getting guns.

Have cops try to sell guns at gun shows...and ask people to get a background check...if they say they can't pass, and if they still buy the gun arrest them....

Sure, let's also have them actually perform the background checks when the cop isn't in the room.

No muss, no fuss, no bothering law abiding citizens...you are then targeting actual criminals...not trying to punish people because they want to own a gun....which is what the anti gunners want...

Yeah, through qualified gun checks for all gun sales, it would require an internet connection or a phone call. Get rid of gun check loopholes where people with felony convictions can easily buy guns and prosecute gun sellers who haphazardly give away guns to people who shouldn't have them. Sounds good to me.

Fully automatic weapons are mostly illegal here, how many have been used in crimes as compared to semis? I'm not sure what your point is unless you are saying that now all fully automatic weapons should be legal because on occasion they are used in crimes? That's kind of a dumb idea. You seem to think that a law is only successful if it prevents 100% of the crimes it was enacted for. It's a ridiculously impossible standard that no law should ever be put to.

No, my point is that in a country without gun stores, and gun control laws that are extreme compared to the United States, 2 men on a government terrorist watch list and one a convicted criminal easily got fully automatic rifles with 30 round magazines....gun laws do not stop criminals from getting the weapons they want or need.....the only solution is to lock up criminals when you catch them......and for some reason they are not locking up criminals who use guns to commit crimes.....it is the same story across the country...

 

[2aguy]

Background checks do not stop any crime....guns are either bought by people who can pass background checks...in 5 minutes...and then passed to criminals, or the guns are stolen.......background checks do absolutely nothing to stop criminals from getting guns

So, what you are saying is that criminals should be allowed to purchase guns. Correct? Do you think pedophiles should be allowed to work in day care centers? What is preventing them from doing so now?

......and they didn't stop one mass shooter either...

So, to get this straight. Every law according to you MUST prevent all crimes that it was created to prevent or we toss it out? Kind of an impossible standard.

not the underage kids at columbine or the Navy Yard shooter, the Santa Barbara shooter who went through 3 separate background checks for his 3 guns, the 2 Fort Hood Shooters, the Virginia Tech shooter, the colorado theater shooter.......see the point....?

I'm sure there are a lot of lawfully purchases guns used in horrible crimes. That's really not a positive argument for someone who is pro gun. Are you saying that every gun purchase should require a clean mental health history? Sure sounds like it. I'm only asking for 5 minutes so the everyday/run of the mill criminal can't walk into a Walmart and buy a gun. Of course that would require a real background check system. I as a gun owner would appreciate if the nut jobs had as difficult time as possible trying to get their hands on one.

It is against the law for criminals to purchase guns right now....you realize that...right? and background checks do nothing to stop that...right?

it is against the law. I kind of like the idea of them not being able to easily subvert the law and if it requires me to wait an additional 5 minutes then I'm fine. You on the other hand want criminals to ignore whatever the law is, walk into a gun store and buy whatever they want.

The only gun control that works is when a criminal uses a gun in a crime, you arrest them and lock them up for a long time. This sounds like a common sense idea, but the state and federal government are not locking up gun criminals.....they use guns as a bargaining chip...which is why you see these killers out on the street even though in the news story you will read "Previous weapons violations..."

I think when someone is arrested for any violent crime to include domestic violence then their guns are taken away from them whether they used them in whatever crime they were charged with or not. You on the other hand just want to wait until they use them, when it's too late.

If you really want to stop gun crime you have to focus on criminals, not peaceful, law abiding citizens.

Which is exactly what background checks do.

No...what you need to understand is that background checks do not stop gun crime...at all....what the gun grabbers believe is that background checks stop criminals from getting guns...and that is not true. Now, because criminals still get guns they want "Universal Background checks" which will be bypassed the same ways that the current background checks are bypassed....but....it will trip up regular citizens who don't know the law...which is the real point....they want to make buying a gun legally risky, and inconvenient for normal people....

You can take someone's drivers license away but if they really want to drive they are going to do so, that doesn't mean laws are unnecessary. Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns. No need to make it easy for them and it doesn't infringe on anyone else owning guns.

You are wrong on all counts including what you claim to think I want....I don't mind the current background system at gun stores...it doesn't keep guns out of the hands of criminals and it wrongly stops more law abiding citizens from getting guns than it does criminals...but the gun grabbers wanted it and I will meet them on that point......but again..it does not stop criminals from getting guns and is more likely to stop a law abiding citizen than a criminal.....

it stops about 70k gun purchases per year mostly due to previous felony convictions. It's only about 1% of all gun sales but that's probably likely due to most people with a criminal conviction won't bother going to a gun store to buy a gun...cuz they shouldn't be able. to.

What you fail to realize is that anti gun activists don't focus on criminals getting guns...if they did they would push for long prison sentences for criminals using guns in crimes or convicted felons caught in possession of guns...and they don't do that.....they worry more about peaceful, law abiding citizens having access to guns...that is why they focus on background checks, registration and magazine limits...all things the criminals ignore but law abiding citizens obey....

Usually using a gun in the act of a crime has higher penalty. What are you talking about? You don't think people who want background checks also want stiffer penalties for people who use guns in a crime? That's an interesting point of view and while you say background checks hurt legal gun owners (at least I think we were saying that earlier) you haven't expanded on that.

Statistics show that more innocent people are caught up in bad background checks than criminals.....and of those criminals caught by background checks, only a handful are ever brought to trial....so much for background checks....

Link?

Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns.

And in countries that do not allow regular people to own guns....no background checks needed because they can't own guns in the first place, no gun stores.....like the laws of France, Belgium and the other European countries, their criminals get guns when they want or need them easily...again...so much for background checks....just ask the 3 terrorists in France, 2 on government terrorist watch lists and one a convicted felon...they got fully automatic rifles, grenades, full size pistols, and a rocket propelled grenade launcher in a country with extreme gun control laws, they crossed an international border 2 times, to get into another country with extreme gun control laws....and purchased those weapons in a train station...recrossing the international border to reenter France with the extreme gun control laws.....

Fully automatic weapons are mostly illegal here, how many have been used in crimes as compared to semis? I'm not sure what your point is unless you are saying that now all fully automatic weapons should be legal because on occasion they are used in crimes? That's kind of a dumb idea. You seem to think that a law is only successful if it prevents 100% of the crimes it was enacted for. It's a ridiculously impossible standard that no law should ever be put to.

Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns.

We currently have background checks for gun sales...and criminals and mass shooters get around them easily...more easily than regular citizens who want to buy the guns legally.....

Yes, they do. But why make it easy for them?

The woman in New Jersey was killed while she waited for her background check and permitting process to go through...and she was killed with a knife....

So? You're kind of moving the goal posts, that is a waiting period. I've never had to wait more than 5 minutes to buy a gun. Waiting periods are something else entirely. You should know this.

You on the other hand just want to wait until they use them, when it's too late.

Waiting until they use them is the only way to stop them.....the "Pre-crime" laws from the Tom Cruise movie "Minority Report" cannot, and do not stop gun crime...again...none of the measures the anti gunners support...background checks, gun and owner licensing, gun registration, and magazine limits....none of them stops gun crime before they happen....but that is the focus of anti gunners....

I'm sorry, you're talking about a Tom Cruise movie set in the future? I'm saying if someone is convicted of ANY violent crimes then they lose their privilege to own guns. Yes, the cops come to that person's house and confiscates them forever. They are then obviously barred from legally purchasing a gun. You have a problem with that because of a bad movie plot line?

I want real gun control...when a criminal uses a gun for a crime they go away for a long prison sentence...unlike now....focus on that, and you will actually cut down on gun crime...anything else is just meant to infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens.....

That kind of already exists. When a gun is used in a crime often times the penalty is increased. I've got no problem with that but I'm also saying they never get to own a gun again and if they try to buy one the legal way they are denied, why won't the NRA let you actually have a common sense opinion?

Keep our current background check system.....forget "universal background checks" because they would be easily avoided by criminals and the only people caught would be people selling guns without knowing about the need for a Universal Background check...

I want background checks in place to quickly review local, state and federal criminal records for all gun purchases. And people selling guns would need to be responsible enough to ensure those checks were in place for all gun sales. It's called taking responsibility, if they fail they lost their right to ever sell guns again. Fuck them.

Use actual police work to catch criminals trafficking in illegal guns like they do for illegal drugs...send in cops to gun stores and gun shows to try to buy guns without the current background checks.....let private sellers know the cop "can't pass a background check" and if he continues the sale arrest them....

"use actual police work...." what? Let's use technology and common sense rather than these stupid talking points. Sure, send cops in under cover to ensure gun sellers are following the law but let's have a system in place to weed out criminals from getting guns.

Have cops try to sell guns at gun shows...and ask people to get a background check...if they say they can't pass, and if they still buy the gun arrest them....

Sure, let's also have them actually perform the background checks when the cop isn't in the room.

No muss, no fuss, no bothering law abiding citizens...you are then targeting actual criminals...not trying to punish people because they want to own a gun....which is what the anti gunners want...

Yeah, through qualified gun checks for all gun sales, it would require an internet connection or a phone call. Get rid of gun check loopholes where people with felony convictions can easily buy guns and prosecute gun sellers who haphazardly give away guns to people who shouldn't have them. Sounds good to me.

I'm sorry, you're talking about a Tom Cruise movie set in the future? I'm saying if someone is convicted of ANY violent crimes then they lose their privilege to own guns. Yes, the cops come to that person's house and confiscates them forever. They are then obviously barred from legally purchasing a gun. You have a problem with that because of a bad movie plot line?

No....this does not keep criminals from getting guns since felons are already barred from owning guns....and they can get them faster than a law abiding citizen.....of the 8,454 gun murders committed in 2013 according to the FBI table 8.....more than a few of those shooters had previous felony convictions since most gun murders are committed by gang members and drug dealers......

The gun grabbers seem to think that background checks, and all the other laws will prevent gun crime...and this is not true....gun laws only allow you to punish people when they actually break the law....so even confiscating guns from domestic abusers will not keep them from getting illegal guns, or from killing their spouse...

But...overly complicated gun permit processes will keep law abiding citizens from getting guns easily and quickly...the woman in New Jersey was waiting for her gun permit when she was stabbed to death by a boyfriend who she knew was coming for her, the police knew about, and had a restraining order on him...she had all the bells and whistles...alarms and cameras....but she didn't have access to a gun because the gun grabbers made the process to complicated....

 

[2aguy]

Background checks do not stop any crime....guns are either bought by people who can pass background checks...in 5 minutes...and then passed to criminals, or the guns are stolen.......background checks do absolutely nothing to stop criminals from getting guns

So, what you are saying is that criminals should be allowed to purchase guns. Correct? Do you think pedophiles should be allowed to work in day care centers? What is preventing them from doing so now?

......and they didn't stop one mass shooter either...

So, to get this straight. Every law according to you MUST prevent all crimes that it was created to prevent or we toss it out? Kind of an impossible standard.

not the underage kids at columbine or the Navy Yard shooter, the Santa Barbara shooter who went through 3 separate background checks for his 3 guns, the 2 Fort Hood Shooters, the Virginia Tech shooter, the colorado theater shooter.......see the point....?

I'm sure there are a lot of lawfully purchases guns used in horrible crimes. That's really not a positive argument for someone who is pro gun. Are you saying that every gun purchase should require a clean mental health history? Sure sounds like it. I'm only asking for 5 minutes so the everyday/run of the mill criminal can't walk into a Walmart and buy a gun. Of course that would require a real background check system. I as a gun owner would appreciate if the nut jobs had as difficult time as possible trying to get their hands on one.

It is against the law for criminals to purchase guns right now....you realize that...right? and background checks do nothing to stop that...right?

it is against the law. I kind of like the idea of them not being able to easily subvert the law and if it requires me to wait an additional 5 minutes then I'm fine. You on the other hand want criminals to ignore whatever the law is, walk into a gun store and buy whatever they want.

The only gun control that works is when a criminal uses a gun in a crime, you arrest them and lock them up for a long time. This sounds like a common sense idea, but the state and federal government are not locking up gun criminals.....they use guns as a bargaining chip...which is why you see these killers out on the street even though in the news story you will read "Previous weapons violations..."

I think when someone is arrested for any violent crime to include domestic violence then their guns are taken away from them whether they used them in whatever crime they were charged with or not. You on the other hand just want to wait until they use them, when it's too late.

If you really want to stop gun crime you have to focus on criminals, not peaceful, law abiding citizens.

Which is exactly what background checks do.

No...what you need to understand is that background checks do not stop gun crime...at all....what the gun grabbers believe is that background checks stop criminals from getting guns...and that is not true. Now, because criminals still get guns they want "Universal Background checks" which will be bypassed the same ways that the current background checks are bypassed....but....it will trip up regular citizens who don't know the law...which is the real point....they want to make buying a gun legally risky, and inconvenient for normal people....

You can take someone's drivers license away but if they really want to drive they are going to do so, that doesn't mean laws are unnecessary. Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns. No need to make it easy for them and it doesn't infringe on anyone else owning guns.

You are wrong on all counts including what you claim to think I want....I don't mind the current background system at gun stores...it doesn't keep guns out of the hands of criminals and it wrongly stops more law abiding citizens from getting guns than it does criminals...but the gun grabbers wanted it and I will meet them on that point......but again..it does not stop criminals from getting guns and is more likely to stop a law abiding citizen than a criminal.....

it stops about 70k gun purchases per year mostly due to previous felony convictions. It's only about 1% of all gun sales but that's probably likely due to most people with a criminal conviction won't bother going to a gun store to buy a gun...cuz they shouldn't be able. to.

What you fail to realize is that anti gun activists don't focus on criminals getting guns...if they did they would push for long prison sentences for criminals using guns in crimes or convicted felons caught in possession of guns...and they don't do that.....they worry more about peaceful, law abiding citizens having access to guns...that is why they focus on background checks, registration and magazine limits...all things the criminals ignore but law abiding citizens obey....

Usually using a gun in the act of a crime has higher penalty. What are you talking about? You don't think people who want background checks also want stiffer penalties for people who use guns in a crime? That's an interesting point of view and while you say background checks hurt legal gun owners (at least I think we were saying that earlier) you haven't expanded on that.

Statistics show that more innocent people are caught up in bad background checks than criminals.....and of those criminals caught by background checks, only a handful are ever brought to trial....so much for background checks....

Link?

Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns.

And in countries that do not allow regular people to own guns....no background checks needed because they can't own guns in the first place, no gun stores.....like the laws of France, Belgium and the other European countries, their criminals get guns when they want or need them easily...again...so much for background checks....just ask the 3 terrorists in France, 2 on government terrorist watch lists and one a convicted felon...they got fully automatic rifles, grenades, full size pistols, and a rocket propelled grenade launcher in a country with extreme gun control laws, they crossed an international border 2 times, to get into another country with extreme gun control laws....and purchased those weapons in a train station...recrossing the international border to reenter France with the extreme gun control laws.....

Fully automatic weapons are mostly illegal here, how many have been used in crimes as compared to semis? I'm not sure what your point is unless you are saying that now all fully automatic weapons should be legal because on occasion they are used in crimes? That's kind of a dumb idea. You seem to think that a law is only successful if it prevents 100% of the crimes it was enacted for. It's a ridiculously impossible standard that no law should ever be put to.

Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns.

We currently have background checks for gun sales...and criminals and mass shooters get around them easily...more easily than regular citizens who want to buy the guns legally.....

Yes, they do. But why make it easy for them?

The woman in New Jersey was killed while she waited for her background check and permitting process to go through...and she was killed with a knife....

So? You're kind of moving the goal posts, that is a waiting period. I've never had to wait more than 5 minutes to buy a gun. Waiting periods are something else entirely. You should know this.

You on the other hand just want to wait until they use them, when it's too late.

Waiting until they use them is the only way to stop them.....the "Pre-crime" laws from the Tom Cruise movie "Minority Report" cannot, and do not stop gun crime...again...none of the measures the anti gunners support...background checks, gun and owner licensing, gun registration, and magazine limits....none of them stops gun crime before they happen....but that is the focus of anti gunners....

I'm sorry, you're talking about a Tom Cruise movie set in the future? I'm saying if someone is convicted of ANY violent crimes then they lose their privilege to own guns. Yes, the cops come to that person's house and confiscates them forever. They are then obviously barred from legally purchasing a gun. You have a problem with that because of a bad movie plot line?

I want real gun control...when a criminal uses a gun for a crime they go away for a long prison sentence...unlike now....focus on that, and you will actually cut down on gun crime...anything else is just meant to infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens.....

That kind of already exists. When a gun is used in a crime often times the penalty is increased. I've got no problem with that but I'm also saying they never get to own a gun again and if they try to buy one the legal way they are denied, why won't the NRA let you actually have a common sense opinion?

Keep our current background check system.....forget "universal background checks" because they would be easily avoided by criminals and the only people caught would be people selling guns without knowing about the need for a Universal Background check...

I want background checks in place to quickly review local, state and federal criminal records for all gun purchases. And people selling guns would need to be responsible enough to ensure those checks were in place for all gun sales. It's called taking responsibility, if they fail they lost their right to ever sell guns again. Fuck them.

Use actual police work to catch criminals trafficking in illegal guns like they do for illegal drugs...send in cops to gun stores and gun shows to try to buy guns without the current background checks.....let private sellers know the cop "can't pass a background check" and if he continues the sale arrest them....

"use actual police work...." what? Let's use technology and common sense rather than these stupid talking points. Sure, send cops in under cover to ensure gun sellers are following the law but let's have a system in place to weed out criminals from getting guns.

Have cops try to sell guns at gun shows...and ask people to get a background check...if they say they can't pass, and if they still buy the gun arrest them....

Sure, let's also have them actually perform the background checks when the cop isn't in the room.

No muss, no fuss, no bothering law abiding citizens...you are then targeting actual criminals...not trying to punish people because they want to own a gun....which is what the anti gunners want...

Yeah, through qualified gun checks for all gun sales, it would require an internet connection or a phone call. Get rid of gun check loopholes where people with felony convictions can easily buy guns and prosecute gun sellers who haphazardly give away guns to people who shouldn't have them. Sounds good to me.

When a gun is used in a crime often times the penalty is increased.

Actually, no, this is not the case.....look at any criminal in the news....odds are they have crime with a gun in their past and they are out on the street very quickly.....

 

[2aguy]

Background checks do not stop any crime....guns are either bought by people who can pass background checks...in 5 minutes...and then passed to criminals, or the guns are stolen.......background checks do absolutely nothing to stop criminals from getting guns

So, what you are saying is that criminals should be allowed to purchase guns. Correct? Do you think pedophiles should be allowed to work in day care centers? What is preventing them from doing so now?

......and they didn't stop one mass shooter either...

So, to get this straight. Every law according to you MUST prevent all crimes that it was created to prevent or we toss it out? Kind of an impossible standard.

not the underage kids at columbine or the Navy Yard shooter, the Santa Barbara shooter who went through 3 separate background checks for his 3 guns, the 2 Fort Hood Shooters, the Virginia Tech shooter, the colorado theater shooter.......see the point....?

I'm sure there are a lot of lawfully purchases guns used in horrible crimes. That's really not a positive argument for someone who is pro gun. Are you saying that every gun purchase should require a clean mental health history? Sure sounds like it. I'm only asking for 5 minutes so the everyday/run of the mill criminal can't walk into a Walmart and buy a gun. Of course that would require a real background check system. I as a gun owner would appreciate if the nut jobs had as difficult time as possible trying to get their hands on one.

It is against the law for criminals to purchase guns right now....you realize that...right? and background checks do nothing to stop that...right?

it is against the law. I kind of like the idea of them not being able to easily subvert the law and if it requires me to wait an additional 5 minutes then I'm fine. You on the other hand want criminals to ignore whatever the law is, walk into a gun store and buy whatever they want.

The only gun control that works is when a criminal uses a gun in a crime, you arrest them and lock them up for a long time. This sounds like a common sense idea, but the state and federal government are not locking up gun criminals.....they use guns as a bargaining chip...which is why you see these killers out on the street even though in the news story you will read "Previous weapons violations..."

I think when someone is arrested for any violent crime to include domestic violence then their guns are taken away from them whether they used them in whatever crime they were charged with or not. You on the other hand just want to wait until they use them, when it's too late.

If you really want to stop gun crime you have to focus on criminals, not peaceful, law abiding citizens.

Which is exactly what background checks do.

No...what you need to understand is that background checks do not stop gun crime...at all....what the gun grabbers believe is that background checks stop criminals from getting guns...and that is not true. Now, because criminals still get guns they want "Universal Background checks" which will be bypassed the same ways that the current background checks are bypassed....but....it will trip up regular citizens who don't know the law...which is the real point....they want to make buying a gun legally risky, and inconvenient for normal people....

You can take someone's drivers license away but if they really want to drive they are going to do so, that doesn't mean laws are unnecessary. Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns. No need to make it easy for them and it doesn't infringe on anyone else owning guns.

You are wrong on all counts including what you claim to think I want....I don't mind the current background system at gun stores...it doesn't keep guns out of the hands of criminals and it wrongly stops more law abiding citizens from getting guns than it does criminals...but the gun grabbers wanted it and I will meet them on that point......but again..it does not stop criminals from getting guns and is more likely to stop a law abiding citizen than a criminal.....

it stops about 70k gun purchases per year mostly due to previous felony convictions. It's only about 1% of all gun sales but that's probably likely due to most people with a criminal conviction won't bother going to a gun store to buy a gun...cuz they shouldn't be able. to.

What you fail to realize is that anti gun activists don't focus on criminals getting guns...if they did they would push for long prison sentences for criminals using guns in crimes or convicted felons caught in possession of guns...and they don't do that.....they worry more about peaceful, law abiding citizens having access to guns...that is why they focus on background checks, registration and magazine limits...all things the criminals ignore but law abiding citizens obey....

Usually using a gun in the act of a crime has higher penalty. What are you talking about? You don't think people who want background checks also want stiffer penalties for people who use guns in a crime? That's an interesting point of view and while you say background checks hurt legal gun owners (at least I think we were saying that earlier) you haven't expanded on that.

Statistics show that more innocent people are caught up in bad background checks than criminals.....and of those criminals caught by background checks, only a handful are ever brought to trial....so much for background checks....

Link?

Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns.

And in countries that do not allow regular people to own guns....no background checks needed because they can't own guns in the first place, no gun stores.....like the laws of France, Belgium and the other European countries, their criminals get guns when they want or need them easily...again...so much for background checks....just ask the 3 terrorists in France, 2 on government terrorist watch lists and one a convicted felon...they got fully automatic rifles, grenades, full size pistols, and a rocket propelled grenade launcher in a country with extreme gun control laws, they crossed an international border 2 times, to get into another country with extreme gun control laws....and purchased those weapons in a train station...recrossing the international border to reenter France with the extreme gun control laws.....

Fully automatic weapons are mostly illegal here, how many have been used in crimes as compared to semis? I'm not sure what your point is unless you are saying that now all fully automatic weapons should be legal because on occasion they are used in crimes? That's kind of a dumb idea. You seem to think that a law is only successful if it prevents 100% of the crimes it was enacted for. It's a ridiculously impossible standard that no law should ever be put to.

Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns.

We currently have background checks for gun sales...and criminals and mass shooters get around them easily...more easily than regular citizens who want to buy the guns legally.....

Yes, they do. But why make it easy for them?

The woman in New Jersey was killed while she waited for her background check and permitting process to go through...and she was killed with a knife....

So? You're kind of moving the goal posts, that is a waiting period. I've never had to wait more than 5 minutes to buy a gun. Waiting periods are something else entirely. You should know this.

You on the other hand just want to wait until they use them, when it's too late.

Waiting until they use them is the only way to stop them.....the "Pre-crime" laws from the Tom Cruise movie "Minority Report" cannot, and do not stop gun crime...again...none of the measures the anti gunners support...background checks, gun and owner licensing, gun registration, and magazine limits....none of them stops gun crime before they happen....but that is the focus of anti gunners....

I'm sorry, you're talking about a Tom Cruise movie set in the future? I'm saying if someone is convicted of ANY violent crimes then they lose their privilege to own guns. Yes, the cops come to that person's house and confiscates them forever. They are then obviously barred from legally purchasing a gun. You have a problem with that because of a bad movie plot line?

I want real gun control...when a criminal uses a gun for a crime they go away for a long prison sentence...unlike now....focus on that, and you will actually cut down on gun crime...anything else is just meant to infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens.....

That kind of already exists. When a gun is used in a crime often times the penalty is increased. I've got no problem with that but I'm also saying they never get to own a gun again and if they try to buy one the legal way they are denied, why won't the NRA let you actually have a common sense opinion?

Keep our current background check system.....forget "universal background checks" because they would be easily avoided by criminals and the only people caught would be people selling guns without knowing about the need for a Universal Background check...

I want background checks in place to quickly review local, state and federal criminal records for all gun purchases. And people selling guns would need to be responsible enough to ensure those checks were in place for all gun sales. It's called taking responsibility, if they fail they lost their right to ever sell guns again. Fuck them.

Use actual police work to catch criminals trafficking in illegal guns like they do for illegal drugs...send in cops to gun stores and gun shows to try to buy guns without the current background checks.....let private sellers know the cop "can't pass a background check" and if he continues the sale arrest them....

"use actual police work...." what? Let's use technology and common sense rather than these stupid talking points. Sure, send cops in under cover to ensure gun sellers are following the law but let's have a system in place to weed out criminals from getting guns.

Have cops try to sell guns at gun shows...and ask people to get a background check...if they say they can't pass, and if they still buy the gun arrest them....

Sure, let's also have them actually perform the background checks when the cop isn't in the room.

No muss, no fuss, no bothering law abiding citizens...you are then targeting actual criminals...not trying to punish people because they want to own a gun....which is what the anti gunners want...

Yeah, through qualified gun checks for all gun sales, it would require an internet connection or a phone call. Get rid of gun check loopholes where people with felony convictions can easily buy guns and prosecute gun sellers who haphazardly give away guns to people who shouldn't have them. Sounds good to me.

Yeah, through qualified gun checks for all gun sales, it would require an internet connection or a phone call. Get rid of gun check loopholes where people with felony convictions can easily buy guns and prosecute gun sellers who haphazardly give away guns to people who shouldn't have them. Sounds good to me.

Now those are just talking points....all guns sales through licensed dealers already go through a federal check and any new Universal Background check still wouldn't catch anyone since right now criminals use people who can pass background checks to buy their guns, or simply steal them......so any attempt to check all gun sales fails the first day....and requires registering guns to track those private sales...which is a no go.....

Criminals bypass background checks...they don't stop them from getting guns..at all...and what will happen is family members selling guns to friends and neighbors will get felony convictions, since they won't realize they have to conduct a background check, while the actual criminals get their illegal guns easily........

 

[2aguy]

Background checks do not stop any crime....guns are either bought by people who can pass background checks...in 5 minutes...and then passed to criminals, or the guns are stolen.......background checks do absolutely nothing to stop criminals from getting guns

So, what you are saying is that criminals should be allowed to purchase guns. Correct? Do you think pedophiles should be allowed to work in day care centers? What is preventing them from doing so now?

......and they didn't stop one mass shooter either...

So, to get this straight. Every law according to you MUST prevent all crimes that it was created to prevent or we toss it out? Kind of an impossible standard.

not the underage kids at columbine or the Navy Yard shooter, the Santa Barbara shooter who went through 3 separate background checks for his 3 guns, the 2 Fort Hood Shooters, the Virginia Tech shooter, the colorado theater shooter.......see the point....?

I'm sure there are a lot of lawfully purchases guns used in horrible crimes. That's really not a positive argument for someone who is pro gun. Are you saying that every gun purchase should require a clean mental health history? Sure sounds like it. I'm only asking for 5 minutes so the everyday/run of the mill criminal can't walk into a Walmart and buy a gun. Of course that would require a real background check system. I as a gun owner would appreciate if the nut jobs had as difficult time as possible trying to get their hands on one.

It is against the law for criminals to purchase guns right now....you realize that...right? and background checks do nothing to stop that...right?

it is against the law. I kind of like the idea of them not being able to easily subvert the law and if it requires me to wait an additional 5 minutes then I'm fine. You on the other hand want criminals to ignore whatever the law is, walk into a gun store and buy whatever they want.

The only gun control that works is when a criminal uses a gun in a crime, you arrest them and lock them up for a long time. This sounds like a common sense idea, but the state and federal government are not locking up gun criminals.....they use guns as a bargaining chip...which is why you see these killers out on the street even though in the news story you will read "Previous weapons violations..."

I think when someone is arrested for any violent crime to include domestic violence then their guns are taken away from them whether they used them in whatever crime they were charged with or not. You on the other hand just want to wait until they use them, when it's too late.

If you really want to stop gun crime you have to focus on criminals, not peaceful, law abiding citizens.

Which is exactly what background checks do.

No...what you need to understand is that background checks do not stop gun crime...at all....what the gun grabbers believe is that background checks stop criminals from getting guns...and that is not true. Now, because criminals still get guns they want "Universal Background checks" which will be bypassed the same ways that the current background checks are bypassed....but....it will trip up regular citizens who don't know the law...which is the real point....they want to make buying a gun legally risky, and inconvenient for normal people....

You can take someone's drivers license away but if they really want to drive they are going to do so, that doesn't mean laws are unnecessary. Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns. No need to make it easy for them and it doesn't infringe on anyone else owning guns.

You are wrong on all counts including what you claim to think I want....I don't mind the current background system at gun stores...it doesn't keep guns out of the hands of criminals and it wrongly stops more law abiding citizens from getting guns than it does criminals...but the gun grabbers wanted it and I will meet them on that point......but again..it does not stop criminals from getting guns and is more likely to stop a law abiding citizen than a criminal.....

it stops about 70k gun purchases per year mostly due to previous felony convictions. It's only about 1% of all gun sales but that's probably likely due to most people with a criminal conviction won't bother going to a gun store to buy a gun...cuz they shouldn't be able. to.

What you fail to realize is that anti gun activists don't focus on criminals getting guns...if they did they would push for long prison sentences for criminals using guns in crimes or convicted felons caught in possession of guns...and they don't do that.....they worry more about peaceful, law abiding citizens having access to guns...that is why they focus on background checks, registration and magazine limits...all things the criminals ignore but law abiding citizens obey....

Usually using a gun in the act of a crime has higher penalty. What are you talking about? You don't think people who want background checks also want stiffer penalties for people who use guns in a crime? That's an interesting point of view and while you say background checks hurt legal gun owners (at least I think we were saying that earlier) you haven't expanded on that.

Statistics show that more innocent people are caught up in bad background checks than criminals.....and of those criminals caught by background checks, only a handful are ever brought to trial....so much for background checks....

Link?

Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns.

And in countries that do not allow regular people to own guns....no background checks needed because they can't own guns in the first place, no gun stores.....like the laws of France, Belgium and the other European countries, their criminals get guns when they want or need them easily...again...so much for background checks....just ask the 3 terrorists in France, 2 on government terrorist watch lists and one a convicted felon...they got fully automatic rifles, grenades, full size pistols, and a rocket propelled grenade launcher in a country with extreme gun control laws, they crossed an international border 2 times, to get into another country with extreme gun control laws....and purchased those weapons in a train station...recrossing the international border to reenter France with the extreme gun control laws.....

Fully automatic weapons are mostly illegal here, how many have been used in crimes as compared to semis? I'm not sure what your point is unless you are saying that now all fully automatic weapons should be legal because on occasion they are used in crimes? That's kind of a dumb idea. You seem to think that a law is only successful if it prevents 100% of the crimes it was enacted for. It's a ridiculously impossible standard that no law should ever be put to.

Background checks if they were actually used would eliminate one of the easiest ways for criminals to get guns.

We currently have background checks for gun sales...and criminals and mass shooters get around them easily...more easily than regular citizens who want to buy the guns legally.....

Yes, they do. But why make it easy for them?

The woman in New Jersey was killed while she waited for her background check and permitting process to go through...and she was killed with a knife....

So? You're kind of moving the goal posts, that is a waiting period. I've never had to wait more than 5 minutes to buy a gun. Waiting periods are something else entirely. You should know this.

You on the other hand just want to wait until they use them, when it's too late.

Waiting until they use them is the only way to stop them.....the "Pre-crime" laws from the Tom Cruise movie "Minority Report" cannot, and do not stop gun crime...again...none of the measures the anti gunners support...background checks, gun and owner licensing, gun registration, and magazine limits....none of them stops gun crime before they happen....but that is the focus of anti gunners....

I'm sorry, you're talking about a Tom Cruise movie set in the future? I'm saying if someone is convicted of ANY violent crimes then they lose their privilege to own guns. Yes, the cops come to that person's house and confiscates them forever. They are then obviously barred from legally purchasing a gun. You have a problem with that because of a bad movie plot line?

I want real gun control...when a criminal uses a gun for a crime they go away for a long prison sentence...unlike now....focus on that, and you will actually cut down on gun crime...anything else is just meant to infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens.....

That kind of already exists. When a gun is used in a crime often times the penalty is increased. I've got no problem with that but I'm also saying they never get to own a gun again and if they try to buy one the legal way they are denied, why won't the NRA let you actually have a common sense opinion?

Keep our current background check system.....forget "universal background checks" because they would be easily avoided by criminals and the only people caught would be people selling guns without knowing about the need for a Universal Background check...

I want background checks in place to quickly review local, state and federal criminal records for all gun purchases. And people selling guns would need to be responsible enough to ensure those checks were in place for all gun sales. It's called taking responsibility, if they fail they lost their right to ever sell guns again. Fuck them.

Use actual police work to catch criminals trafficking in illegal guns like they do for illegal drugs...send in cops to gun stores and gun shows to try to buy guns without the current background checks.....let private sellers know the cop "can't pass a background check" and if he continues the sale arrest them....

"use actual police work...." what? Let's use technology and common sense rather than these stupid talking points. Sure, send cops in under cover to ensure gun sellers are following the law but let's have a system in place to weed out criminals from getting guns.

Have cops try to sell guns at gun shows...and ask people to get a background check...if they say they can't pass, and if they still buy the gun arrest them....

Sure, let's also have them actually perform the background checks when the cop isn't in the room.

No muss, no fuss, no bothering law abiding citizens...you are then targeting actual criminals...not trying to punish people because they want to own a gun....which is what the anti gunners want...

Yeah, through qualified gun checks for all gun sales, it would require an internet connection or a phone call. Get rid of gun check loopholes where people with felony convictions can easily buy guns and prosecute gun sellers who haphazardly give away guns to people who shouldn't have them. Sounds good to me.

it stops about 70k gun purchases per year mostly due to previous felony convictions.

And you are wrong....I will address this specifically below......


CPRC in the Associated Press on background checks - Crime Prevention Research Center crimeresearch.org


But saying that half the denials are later overturned after appeal gives a misleading impression of the number of mistakes that were made by the NICS system. Take the numbers for 2009. There were 71,010 initial denials. Of those, only 4,681, or 6.6 percent, were referred to the BATF field offices for further investigation. As a report on these denials by the U.S. Department of Justice indicates, “The remaining denials (66,329 – 93%) did not meet referral guidelines or were overturned after review by Brady Operations or after the FBI received additional information.”

The last two of these three categories are clearly false positives. The first might involve false positives, but it is possible that the disqualifying offenses are too old (though there are some prosecutions that involve misdemeanor violations that are four decades old so that isn’t too obvious). To put it differently, the initial review didn’t find that these individuals had a record that prevented them from buying a gun. (Numbers for 2010 are available here.)

Still that isn’t the end of the story. Of these 4,681 referrals, over 51 percent, or 2,390 cases, involve “delayed denials,” cases where a check hasn’t even been completed. Of the rest, 2,291 covered cases where initial reviews indicated that the person should have been denied buying a gun. But the government admits that upon further review another 572 of these referrals were found “not [to be] a prohibited person,” leaving about 4,154 cases. That implies an initial false positive rate of roughly 94.2%. And it still doesn’t mean that the government hasn’t made a mistake on the remaining cases. In some cases for example, a person’s criminal record was supposed to be expunged, and it had not been.

 

[Political Junky]

How valid can Ted be that he doesn't trust fellow Cons with guns?

 

[whitehall]

You almost gotta laugh. The prog left whines about background checks to possess a firearm but they think a presidential candidate is a hypocrite when he requires the same thing. Wouldn't you think the prog left would praise Senator Cruz for his diligence on behalf of gun laws?

 

[2aguy]

How valid can Ted be that he doesn't trust fellow Cons with guns?

He trusts conservatives with guns.....but a liberal sneaking in with a gun can be deadly......they like to kill people they don't like....

 

[M14 Shooter]

What is he afraid of? Maybe dick Cheney will go shoot at, opps I mean with him
Recently, Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) announced that he would be inviting a random “lucky” supporter to have a “shooting excursion” with him to reinforce his commitment to ensuring “your Constitutional right to keep and bear arms is not infringed upon.” Who would be infringing on those rights? Well, mostly Ted Cruz, whose campaign later clarified that any winner would need to go through a background check.
Addicting Info Ted Cruz Wants Background Check On Supporters Before They Can Shoot With Him

Wow. This is impressively inane, even for you.
Someone asking you to undergo a background check before you take them shooting does not violate the 2nd amendment because you have no right to be taken shooting by someone.
Surely that thought crossed your mind.
Oh... wait... never mind.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So, what you are saying is that criminals should be allowed to purchase guns.

it is illegal for convicted felons to purchase/own/possess a gun. Nowhere does he or anyone else say this should not be the case.

So, to get this straight. Every law according to you MUST prevent all crimes...

If a law enacted with the expressed purpose to prevent a crime does not prevent that crime, than said law is, unarguably, ineffective.
If said law restricts the rights of the law abiding, there can be no sound argument that said law passes constitutional muster for there miust, at the very least be a sound reason for any law that does so.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If you really want to stop gun crime you have to focus on criminals, not peaceful, law abiding citizens.

Which is exactly what background checks do.

On the contrary.
Background checks assume that all who seek to purchase a gun are doing so illegally; under this assumption, the state halts the sale -- the exercise of the right - until it can verify otherwise.

The state may not presume all those to who buy a gun are 'guilty' of doing so illegally and compel them to 'prove' that they are innocent by undergoing a background check; to presume a citizen 'might' misuse a civil liberty does not warrant the state's restriction of that righ

 

[M14 Shooter]

it stops about 70k gun purchases per year mostly due to previous felony convictions.

Cite?

 

[PoliticalChic]

How valid can Ted be that he doesn't trust fellow Cons with guns?

He trusts conservatives with guns.....but a liberal sneaking in with a gun can be deadly......they like to kill people they don't like....

Indeed!

And every presidential assassin in the history of the nation has been a liberal- or has not been associated with a political outlook- none were right-wingers.

 

[dannyboys]

Of the hundreds of negroes killed by a gun by other negroes, this last year, in the US, how many of the guns were handguns? How many of the guns were legally purchased by the negro who did the shooting?
Answer: Fucking zero!
How many negro race whores like Sharpton really give a shit? Zero.
As long as negroes continue to murder other negroes for a fucking pair of running shoes race whores like Sharpton can get rich. Too bad he won't pay his taxes. The money could help take illegal stolen handguns out of the inner city shit holes.