Syrian-ISIS Quagmire; Crisis Rooted In Ego and Failed Foreign Policy

[easyt65]

It started...and has continued...like this:

Civil War in Syria

Assad gasses his own people

Obama steps in and issues 'Red Line'
- WHY? I thought we weren't the world's policeman, libs?! Where the hell was the U.N.?

Assad ignores Obama, uses WMD on his people again.

Obama retreats from 'Red Line', blames 'the world' for the 'Red Line', calls it THEIRS
- Exposes Obama's un-willingness to back his words
- Obama's ego never allowed him to consider Assad might actually ignore his 'edict'; once Assad did, Obama - who had no intention of going to war over this and did not think he would have to - had no idea what to do. It was THEN that he went to 'the world' to try to bolster support from others to back HIS calling-out of Assad.... NO TAKERS.

Obama seeks to make up for his Syrian/Assad Foreign Policy disaster, enters 'Proxy' War against Assad
- Obama is so determined to oust Assad that he supplies/arms/funds/trains Islamic Extremist 'rebels' that include ISIS
- Obama arms ISIS from Benghazi
- When asked about ISIS, Obama attempts to minimize them, calls them a 'JV Team'
- Since they are 'allies' against Assad and Obama is SO focused on Assad, Obama ignores ISIS move into Iraq, allows then un-opposed entry...and take-over of much of the country our military had liberated at great cost
- Obama spends US millions to train 6 (SIX) Syrian Rebels: 5 convert to ISIS, 1 is killed by Russia

Putin steps in to protect their 'loyal customer', Syria / Assad, under the 'story' that HE/Russia is taking over the fight against ISIS
- Russia builds an airbase in Syria, brings in fighters/bombers troops
- Putin initially declares 'No Fly Zone' over Syria, tells US to stay out (US was protecting Anti-Assad Rebels)
- Putin/Russia begin bombing US-supported Anti-Assad Rebels
- Iran 'joins the party' - sends in troops to Syria to fight anti-Assad 'rebels'
- Obama now in proxy war against Syria/Assad, Russia/Putin, and Iran.
- Obama eventually forced to abandon 'rebel' support...because there aren't many and being wiped out by Russia.
- Obama begins arming Kurds to fight ISIS and engages in pin-prick drone strikes

Obama orders 'no-boots-on-the-ground' boots on the ground in Iraq at / near Syrian border

Obama sets 'Rules of Engagement' in war against ISIS, forces other nations to comply
- ISIS Oil tankers and oil production facilities off limits; illegal oil industry supplies ISIS w/50% of its cash; without the cash they can not continue their 'war on Assad', and Obama wants to make sure this continues. The PROBLEM is ISIS kinda F*s Obama, uses part of that oil revenue to fund the recent attacks on Paris.
- US pilots report returning to base with 3/4 of their bombs because they can't get approval to strike ISIS targets - to include ISIS oil tankers

Post-Paris Attacks, France finally ignores Obama ROE - over 1,000 ISIS oil tankers destroyed in 3 days
- France reports ISIS oil production facilities, ISIS headquarters, and other key targets 'un-touched', begins to strike them
- Just reported Obama was giving ISIS 45-minute warning that French / allies were inbound to strike the, their oil tankers...Obama did not want to kill 'innocents'. (If you are driving trucks for terrorists who behead and burn people alive you aren't innocent)

In a relatively 'small' airspace (in and around Syria) you have MULTIPLE nations, MULTIPLE coalitions, MULTIPLE agendas, and MULTIPLE militaries, NOT all working together...you also have national borders relatively close to each other....
- Putin had declared a no-fly zone over Syria but relaxed that; allowed France - after Paris attacks - to bomb ISIS stronghold / HQ and oil Tankers in Syria...even joined in.
- Britain has asked Russia to join France in bombing critical ISIS targets ignored/protected by Obama

NOW Turkey has shot down a Russian bomber....
- This is a big deal because several days ago Russia released evidence showing that Turkey - a NATO Member - had been accepting / buying ISIS Oil, virtually helping fund ISIS activities. Bombing the ISIS tankers stops the flow of ill-gotten oil into Turkey.
- Putin accuses Turkey of deliberately shooting down their bomber and basically accuses NATO of supporting / protecting and/or being an 'ALLY' of ISIS

--------------

Obama so 'desperate' to take down Assad he is 'in bed' with terrorists / ISIS; has been protecting ISIS targets and their ability to keep funding their operations...even after the Paris attacks AND their promise to attack the US.....fighting a proxy war with Syria...and Russia and Iran

Syria, Russia, and Iran targeting and destroying anti-Assad Rebels...fighting the proxy war against Obama - defeated Obama in that proxy war, targeting ISIS, and exposed NATO's / Turkey's 'aiding and abetting ISIS)....

Turkey and Russia about to go toe-to-toe, risking dragging NATO into the conflict
.
.
.
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...and ALL THIS HUGE CLUSTERFARK STARTED BY OBAMA STICKING HIS NOS OINTO SYRIA'S CIVIL WAR, ISSUING HIS 'RED LINE', COWARDLY BACKING AWAY FROM IT, AND NOW BEING OBSESSED WITH REDEEMING HIMSELF BY OUSTING ASSAD....

Obama's RED LINE resulted in:
- Gun running to ISIS in Benghazi, resulting in 4 Americans dead, to include Ambassador Stevens
- Rise of ISIS in Syria...spreading globally
- Un-Opposed ISIS invasion of Iraq
- THOUSANDS of men, women, & children slaughtered by ISIS in Iraq
- Allied pilot being burned alive by ISIS
- Syrian-Russian-Iran alliance
- Failed attempt to wage a proxy war by Obama
- Millions wasted on supplying, arming, and training 5 new ISIS recruits
- Paris attacks, funded by ISIS oil program that was protected by Obama
- This huge multi-national 'clusterfark' of conflicting interests, agendas, military goals, and conflict centered on Syria

Link: Putin: Downing Of Jet A 'Stab In The Back'
LINK: Washington Post: Obama to Blame for Syrian Catastrophe
LINK: Links between Turkey and ISIS are now 'undeniable' - Business Insider
LINK: White House Gave ISIS 45 Minute Warning Before Bombing Oil Tankers
LINK: US military pilots complain hands tied in ‘frustrating’ fight against ISIS | Fox News
LINK: Watch: Dem Reveals Startling Connection Between Obama And Islamic Extremists - He WON'T Want This Out There

 

[tinydancer]

The Kurds are claiming that Turkey is specifically targeting them in Iraq and Syria and that the US gave Erdogan the go ahead to bomb them as a trade off for being able to use Turkey's air base.

That would be bad.

"But it came as the US was accused by Kurds of tolerating a renewed Turkish government assault on its Kurdish minority as the price for permission for US aircraft to use Turkey’s Incirlik air base against Isis jihadists for the first time.

“The Americans are not very clever in calculating this sort of thing,” said Kamran Karadaghi, an Iraqi Kurdish commentator and former chief of staff to the Iraqi President, Jalal Talabani. “Maybe they calculate that with Turkey involved on their side, they don’t need the Kurds.”

The US denies giving the go-ahead for Turkish attacks on the PKK in return for American use of Turkish air bases, or of any link with Turkish action against Isis fighters and volunteers, who were previously able to move fairly freely across Turkey’s 550-mile border with Syria.

But whatever America was hoping for, initial signs are that the Turkish government may be more interested in moving against the Kurds in Turkey, Syria and Iraq than it is in attacking Isis. Ankara has previously said that it considers both the PKK and Isis to be “terrorists”.

Is this America's worst error in the Middle East since the Iraq War?

 

[paulitician]

No credible proof Assad gassed his own People. That was just Western Warmonger propaganda. The International Justice System has to take a serious look at the 'Regime Change' policy.

The U.S. especially, has used that policy to commit unspeakable atrocities all over the world. Declaring 'Regime Change' is an illegal act. Those nations declaring it, should be held accountable.

 

[easyt65]

Before the Iraq war one of the biggest obstacles the US had was keeping Turkey 'happy' regarding the Kurds. The Kurds in Iraq are right up against Turkey's border, but there is also a significant number of Kurds in Southern Turkey. The Turks were worried the Kurds would actually seize part of Southern Turkey to create their own small nation. The US had to give assurances that we would not let that happen. It was not uncommon to hear of - before and even during the Iraq war - the Turks shelling the Kurds.

Common enemies, yes, but Turkey wanted to assure their continued sovereignty.

 

[easyt65]

No credible proof Assad gassed his own People. That was just Western Warmonger propaganda. The International Justice System has to take a serious look at the 'Regime Change' policy. The U.S. especially, has used that policy to commit unspeakable atrocities all over the world. Declaring 'Regime Change' is an illegal act. Those nations declaring it, should be held accountable.

The way I am reading your comment is that you believe chemical weapons WERE used but there was no undeniable proof that ASSAD used them....

LINK: Syria chemical weapons: the proof that Assad regime launching chlorine attacks on children

There is actually no question regarding if chemical weapons were used; however, as you point out, there ARE questions as to WHO used them - Assad or the rebels fighting against him.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Syrian-ISIS Quagmire; Crisis Rooted In Ego and Failed Foreign Policy"

True – the hubris of the GWB administration and its failed, illegal invasion of Iraq, which destabilized the entire Region.

And today we have many on the right who advocate for that same failed foreign policy strategy, and to send American conventional military ground forces into that quagmire.

 

[paulitician]

Before the Iraq war one of the biggest obstacles the US had was keeping Turkey 'happy' regarding the Kurds. The Kurds in Iraq are right up against Turkey's border, but there is also a significant number of Kurds in Southern Turkey. The Turks were worried the Kurds would actually seize part of Southern Turkey to create their own small nation. The US had to give assurances that we would not let that happen. It was not uncommon to hear of - before and even during the Iraq war - the Turks shelling the Kurds.

Common enemies, yes, but Turkey wanted to assure their continued sovereignty.

Time to reconsider 'friendships' with awful nations like Saudi Arabia and Turkey. They're the main financiers of ISIS. Without their money, training, and weapons, there wouldn't be an ISIS. And that falls back on the U.S. The U.S. arms and trains both nations.

 

[easyt65]

"Syrian-ISIS Quagmire; Crisis Rooted In Ego and Failed Foreign Policy"
True – the hubris of the GWB administration and its failed, illegal invasion of Iraq, which destabilized the entire Region..

"B...b...b...BUT Buuuuuussssshhhhhh!"

Bush had nothing to do with Syria's civil war or Obama butting his nose into it, issuing his disastrous 'Red Line' challenge to Assad! That was all BARRY, CCJ!

 

[paulitician]

No credible proof Assad gassed his own People. That was just Western Warmonger propaganda. The International Justice System has to take a serious look at the 'Regime Change' policy. The U.S. especially, has used that policy to commit unspeakable atrocities all over the world. Declaring 'Regime Change' is an illegal act. Those nations declaring it, should be held accountable.

The way I am reading your comment is that you believe chemical weapons WERE used but there was no undeniable proof that ASSAD used them....

LINK: Syria chemical weapons: the proof that Assad regime launching chlorine attacks on children

There is actually no question regarding if chemical weapons were used; however, as you point out, there ARE questions as to WHO used them - Assad or the rebels fighting against him.

Assad didn't use chemical weapons on anyone. That was a Western Warmonger lie. A feeble attempt at justifying intervening in Syria's Civil War. It was all about 'Regime Change.' Declaring 'Regime Change' is an illegal act. The International Justice System has to look into it.

 

[easyt65]

Time to reconsider 'friendships' with awful nations like Saudi Arabia and Turkey. They're the main financiers of ISIS. Without their money, training, and weapons, there wouldn't be an ISIS. And that falls back on the U.S. The U.S. arms and trains both nations.

Time to do a lot of 'reconsidering'.

Saudi, Qatar, UAE...they live right across the Bay from Iran and walk a tightrope to remain on MANY bad people's 'good side', thus they aid and support terrorists. Our relationship is one with the 'devil' out of 'necessity'. What goes on in that part of the world effects our national interests, and to have access to that part of the world we have to have operating / military bases. While we have an alliance of 'mutual defense / security' at the same time individually we/they are making deals with others who are 'bad' for us / each other.

Politicians are the same as nations in this way. It has been proven, for example, how Hillary touts her support for women, homosexuals, and opposition against terrorists while she simultaneously seeks increased power by taking financial contributions from nations that support terrorism, oppresses women, engages in the mutilation of female genitalia, and murders gays.

Necessary evils'?
'Deals with the devil for gain'?

...in the end, as we have seen, they all come with a COST!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Obama has taken sides with ISIS. Once you understand that, everything makes perfect sense

 

[paulitician]

Time to reconsider 'friendships' with awful nations like Saudi Arabia and Turkey. They're the main financiers of ISIS. Without their money, training, and weapons, there wouldn't be an ISIS. And that falls back on the U.S. The U.S. arms and trains both nations.

Time to do a lot of 'reconsidering'.

Saudi, Qatar, UAE...they live right across the Bay from Iran and walk a tightrope to remain on MANY bad people's 'good side', thus they aid and support terrorists. Our relationship is one with the 'devil' out of 'necessity'. What goes on in that part of the world effects our national interests, and to have access to that part of the world we have to have operating / military bases. While we have an alliance of 'mutual defense / security' at the same time individually we/they are making deals with others who are 'bad' for us / each other.

Politicians are the same as nations in this way. It has been proven, for example, how Hillary touts her support for women, homosexuals, and opposition against terrorists while she simultaneously seeks increased power by taking financial contributions from nations that support terrorism, oppresses women, engages in the mutilation of female genitalia, and murders gays.

Necessary evils'?
'Deals with the devil for gain'?

...in the end, as we have seen, they all come with a COST!

Saudi Arabia may be the most evil nation on earth. Without its massive funding & arming, there would be no ISIS or Al Qaeda. Most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. Yet we still call it our 'close ally.' But why?... It's all about the money.

And Turkey is a despicable nation as well. What we've allowed them to do to the Kurds, is truly unforgivable. It's also a big financier of ISIS in Syria. We really do need to reassess these relationships.

 

[paulitician]

Obama has taken sides with ISIS. Once you understand that, everything makes perfect sense

It's what happens when you illegally declare 'Regime Change.' He's gotten in bed with brutal psychos. And for what? To kill Assad? Why? Assad is no threat to anyone. It's an ugly disaster over there. We should have just stayed out of Syria's Civil War. It was never our fight.

 

[easyt65]

We are allies, as nearest I can tell, to help the Saudi Royal family stay in power. 'You said, "It's all about the money". It's the OIL, too.

Usama Bin Laden was a Saudi, and he wanted to take down the Royal Family. we protect the Royal Family...and the oil, and they keep the oil flowing, which is to our benefit. Much like I described above, though, the Royal Family - like Qatar, like UAE, does their share of aiding and abetting to stay on the 'relative' 'good side' of 'bad people'.

ISIS has funded half of their operations through the oil they have taken...and 'allies' have been all too eager to buy that oil at a slightly reduced cost from terrorists'. Imagine if ISIS or other terrorists got their hands on all that Saudi oil. You want to talk about a 'WAR over OIL'?! THAT would be it!

 

[tinydancer]

No credible proof Assad gassed his own People. That was just Western Warmonger propaganda. The International Justice System has to take a serious look at the 'Regime Change' policy. The U.S. especially, has used that policy to commit unspeakable atrocities all over the world. Declaring 'Regime Change' is an illegal act. Those nations declaring it, should be held accountable.

If you get a chance to read it Hersh really lays out how we have come to this point.


"Why did Obama delay and then relent on Syria when he was not shy about rushing into Libya? The answer lies in a clash between those in the administration who were committed to enforcing the red line, and military leaders who thought that going to war was both unjustified and potentially disastrous.

Obama’s change of mind had its origins at Porton Down, the defence laboratory in Wiltshire. British intelligence had obtained a sample of the sarin used in the 21 August attack and analysis demonstrated that the gas used didn’t match the batches known to exist in the Syrian army’s chemical weapons arsenal.

The message that the case against Syria wouldn’t hold up was quickly relayed to the US joint chiefs of staff.

The British report heightened doubts inside the Pentagon; the joint chiefs were already preparing to warn Obama that his plans for a far-reaching bomb and missile attack on Syria’s infrastructure could lead to a wider war in the Middle East. As a consequence the American officers delivered a last-minute caution to the president, which, in their view, eventually led to his cancelling the attack.

For months there had been acute concern among senior military leaders and the intelligence community about the role in the war of Syria’s neighbours, especially Turkey.

Prime Minister Recep Erdoğan was known to be supporting the al-Nusra Front, a jihadist faction among the rebel opposition, as well as other Islamist rebel groups.

‘We knew there were some in the Turkish government,’ a former senior US intelligence official, who has access to current intelligence, told me, ‘who believed they could get Assad’s nuts in a vice by dabbling with a sarin attack inside Syria – and forcing Obama to make good on his red line threat.’"

More at link:

LRB · Seymour M. Hersh · The Red Line and the Rat Line: Erdoğan and the Syrian rebels

The Red Line and the Rat Line
Seymour M. Hersh on Obama, Erdoğan and the Syrian rebels

 

[BluesLegend]

People just relax, Obama said he would fix all this in 2008 by reaching out and talking. /sarcasm * infinity

 

[easyt65]

Obama needed Libya from where he could run arms to ISIS in Syria. Talk about making a 'deal with the devil'?! Obama aided the PERPETRATORS OF 9/11/01, who had been hiring Jihadists for years to go to Iraq and Afghanistan to kill US GIs, take over their own country - taking the US to war on his own without Congressional approval to do so...apparently just to have a place from which he could arm ISIS. Libya, after Al Qaeida took over, was in chaos - like the MEern version of the wild west. With all that going on no one would notice an illegal gun-running op into Syria from there...until Al Qaeida re-paid his help and said 'thanks' by killing 4 Americans . That blew the whole CIA op out into the open.

 

[Timmy]

Your timeline is missing somthing .

Obama and Cameron wanted to act on Assad. Congress was crying about Obama going to war without thier approval .

He went for congresses approval and they bocked at the idea . Same wh parliament .

Congress wimped out on the red line when they didn't back obama .

Oh , linking Benghazi to ISIS is total bullshit .

 

[tinydancer]

Time to reconsider 'friendships' with awful nations like Saudi Arabia and Turkey. They're the main financiers of ISIS. Without their money, training, and weapons, there wouldn't be an ISIS. And that falls back on the U.S. The U.S. arms and trains both nations.

Time to do a lot of 'reconsidering'.

Saudi, Qatar, UAE...they live right across the Bay from Iran and walk a tightrope to remain on MANY bad people's 'good side', thus they aid and support terrorists. Our relationship is one with the 'devil' out of 'necessity'. What goes on in that part of the world effects our national interests, and to have access to that part of the world we have to have operating / military bases. While we have an alliance of 'mutual defense / security' at the same time individually we/they are making deals with others who are 'bad' for us / each other.

Politicians are the same as nations in this way. It has been proven, for example, how Hillary touts her support for women, homosexuals, and opposition against terrorists while she simultaneously seeks increased power by taking financial contributions from nations that support terrorism, oppresses women, engages in the mutilation of female genitalia, and murders gays.

Necessary evils'?
'Deals with the devil for gain'?

...in the end, as we have seen, they all come with a COST!

Saudi Arabia may be the most evil nation on earth. Without its massive funding & arming, there would be no ISIS or Al Qaeda. Most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. Yet we still call it our 'close ally.' But why?... It's all about the money.

And Turkey is a despicable nation as well. What we've allowed them to do to the Kurds, is truly unforgivable. It's also a big financier of ISIS in Syria. We really do need to reassess these relationships.

I would really like to know why Turkey has been allowed to buy ISIS oil.

 

[Timmy]

Obama needed Libya from where he could run arms to ISIS in Syria. Talk about making a 'deal with the devil'?! Obama aided the PERPETRATORS OF 9/11/01, who had been hiring Jihadists for years to go to Iraq and Afghanistan to kill US GIs, take over their own country - taking the US to war on his own without Congressional approval to do so...apparently just to have a place from which he could arm ISIS. Libya, after Al Qaeida took over, was in chaos - like the MEern version of the wild west. With all that going on no one would notice an illegal gun-running op into Syria from there...until Al Qaeida re-paid his help and said 'thanks' by killing 4 Americans . That blew the whole CIA op out into the open.

The above is crazy talk . Might as well be a holocaust denier or 911 truther .