Syria: Up to 635 Reported Dead in Chemical Attack

[Trajan]

This is most interesting.

All the west supposedly wants Assad to go. But there are no protests in the street. No google btw did you guys know that the Arab spring was started by a Google employee... oh for another day.

Lets watch how loud Obama screams for Assad to step aside. I can't wait.

and his supporters too. Are they going to back Obama's call for the overthrow of a sovereign nation.

Hey he's on a roll, he seems to have little issue with the generals in Egypt

 

[georgephillip]

Wesley Clark?

*sigh* say no more.

He banged around on his wife for years. Looney tunes. He's with some lib douche bag that's like 30 years younger than him right now.

Oh, and he's a Democrat.

*sigh* say no more.

More:

"Clark's military career began July 2, 1962, when he entered the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York. He later said that Douglas MacArthur's famous 'Duty, honor, country' speech was an important influence on his view of the military. The speech was given to the class of 1962 several months before Clark entered West Point, but a recording was played for his class when they first arrived.[15][25]

"Clark sat in the front in many of his classes, a position held by the highest performer in class. Clark participated heavily in debate, was consistently within the top 5% of his class as a whole (earning him a 'Distinguished Cadet' patch on his uniform) and graduated as valedictorian of West Point. The valedictorian is first to choose which career field of the Army to serve in, and Clark selected armor."

and so what? US Grant failed the infantry tactics course at west point....and? Clarke is just another limelight seeker with to many opinions.

But he seems to have been privy to information two months after 911 the rest of us were not.
"This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and Sudan." [147]
Had you read Clark's allegation in your morning paper in November of 2001, would you have criticized his opinion without asking for the name of his Pentagon source?
Wesley Clark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[dilloduck]

*shrugs* he may see AQ as easier to handle....and? proof of ...what?

That it will benefit Israel....

So what?

Unless you believe like that blithering idiot that that is reason 1 we are even involved at all.......you believe that, seriously?

It may benefit Saudi Arabia too, any reason why it shouldn't ?

oh cmon----can't we finally drop the pretense and admit how important Israeli interests are when it comes to our ME policy ?

 

[Trajan]

That it will benefit Israel....

So what?

Unless you believe like that blithering idiot that that is reason 1 we are even involved at all.......you believe that, seriously?

It may benefit Saudi Arabia too, any reason why it shouldn't ?

oh cmon----can't we finally drop the pretense and admit how important Israeli interests are when it comes to our ME policy ?

So your answer is no. Good.


And of course it's important and so is Saudi interests etc. we have not tapped danced between the 2 for decades for nothing.


Dillo, purchase or get a hold of kissingers memoirs. Read it , twice, I'm not saying he was always right, it's not so much about him or what he did, but is a wonderful primer, it will give you a look inside how things work Over a very broad spectrum of interests and a very broad spectrum of players in different hemispheres etc.....

 

[dilloduck]

So what?

Unless you believe like that blithering idiot that that is reason 1 we are even involved at all.......you believe that, seriously?

It may benefit Saudi Arabia too, any reason why it shouldn't ?

oh cmon----can't we finally drop the pretense and admit how important Israeli interests are when it comes to our ME policy ?

So your answer is no. Good.


And of course it's important and so is Saudi interests etc. we have not tapped danced between the 2 for decades for nothing.


Dillo, purchase or get a hold of kissingers memoirs. Read it , twice, I'm not saying he was always right, it's not so much about him or what he did, but is a wonderful primer, it will give you a look inside how things work Over a very broad spectrum of interests and a very broad spectrum of players in different hemispheres etc.....

I've seen all I need to see-------evidence that the taxpayer is getting fleeced with little or no say so as far as what happens on the large scale of things. Republican or Democrat----it makes no difference. It's a shame that people are victimized by the bullshit.
ooooooooo the gas------the bad bad gas---------

 

[Trajan]

oh cmon----can't we finally drop the pretense and admit how important Israeli interests are when it comes to our ME policy ?

So your answer is no. Good.


And of course it's important and so is Saudi interests etc. we have not tapped danced between the 2 for decades for nothing.


Dillo, purchase or get a hold of kissingers memoirs. Read it , twice, I'm not saying he was always right, it's not so much about him or what he did, but is a wonderful primer, it will give you a look inside how things work Over a very broad spectrum of interests and a very broad spectrum of players in different hemispheres etc.....

I've seen all I need to see-------evidence that the taxpayer is getting fleeced with little or no say so as far as what happens on the large scale of things. Republican or Democrat----it makes no difference. It's a shame that people are victimized by the bullshit.
ooooooooo the gas------the bad bad gas---------

I don't know about getting "fleeced" , I am not sure how you mean that, but as afar as this Syria ME situation being a bi partisan effort, well, that should tell you something. If They are not conspiring against each other who are they conspiring against?....... In short there is no conspiracy. It's the way things have worked from the beginning of time.

 

[dilloduck]

So your answer is no. Good.


And of course it's important and so is Saudi interests etc. we have not tapped danced between the 2 for decades for nothing.


Dillo, purchase or get a hold of kissingers memoirs. Read it , twice, I'm not saying he was always right, it's not so much about him or what he did, but is a wonderful primer, it will give you a look inside how things work Over a very broad spectrum of interests and a very broad spectrum of players in different hemispheres etc.....

I've seen all I need to see-------evidence that the taxpayer is getting fleeced with little or no say so as far as what happens on the large scale of things. Republican or Democrat----it makes no difference. It's a shame that people are victimized by the bullshit.
ooooooooo the gas------the bad bad gas---------

I don't know about getting "fleeced" , I am not sure how you mean that, but as afar as this Syria ME situation being a bi partisan effort, well, that should tell you something. If They are not conspiring against each other who are they conspiring against?....... In short there is no conspiracy. It's the way things have worked from the beginning of time.

America spends billions on our military and all the accessories. It's used in a manner that a hell of a lot of people would strongly object to if they knew. There are discretionary funds for black ops that there is no accounting for. It's bullshit.
The bi partisan effort tells me that both PARTIES will benefit from it OR any PARTY that opposes it will suffer. The American PEOPLE are the ones who will pay for it.

 

[Trajan]

I've seen all I need to see-------evidence that the taxpayer is getting fleeced with little or no say so as far as what happens on the large scale of things. Republican or Democrat----it makes no difference. It's a shame that people are victimized by the bullshit.
ooooooooo the gas------the bad bad gas---------

I don't know about getting "fleeced" , I am not sure how you mean that, but as afar as this Syria ME situation being a bi partisan effort, well, that should tell you something. If They are not conspiring against each other who are they conspiring against?....... In short there is no conspiracy. It's the way things have worked from the beginning of time.

America spends billions on our military and all the accessories. It's used in a manner that a hell of a lot of people would strongly object to if they knew. There are discretionary funds for black ops that there is no accounting for. It's bullshit.
The bi partisan effort tells me that both PARTIES will benefit from it OR any PARTY that opposes it will suffer. The American PEOPLE are the ones who will pay for it.

There's a thread on the military-industrial complex this thread is on Syria and the possible use of chemical weapons, Can we please at least try to stay on topic or somewhere close to it thanks bro

 

[Flopper]

Trajan, I don't think this is a situation when long games of moves ahead can be seen in foreign policy like in a chessgame.

Yesterday Obama stated that he would not rush to mire the United States in another war.

Today he has moved naval ships armed with Tomahawk missiles near to Syria.

All this backing and filling seems confused to me. However, I've noticed that when America moves military assets into a place where they can act, we rarely leave without using them. Assembling forces in Kuwait before Desert Storm, getting jets ready to bomb Qaddafi, many examples: if we go there, we will shoot, experience shows.

So why? Because, I think, we told Assad he couldn't use poison gas and the administration is deciding or has decided, I'd say, that he did anyway. If we let that go, our military credibility as world policeman declines.

The poison gas thing is important because there are some weapons we don't want regularized: poison gas, biological disease agents, and nuclear weapons. All weapons do become normalized eventually, of course, but those are the three we've pretty successfully kept bottled up so far, two from WWI and one from WWII. Obviously the Mideast dictators want to regularize them. Saddam did, and we disposed of him. This lesson has perhaps been lost on Assad, though I don't know what good the gas did him, militarily, if he is the one who used it. Assuming it was actually used at all.

All geopolitics is about stalling for time. We are trying to prevent the normalization of three serious weapons systems, two of which are in constant danger of being used in the Mideast, poison gas and nukes.

We can't stop the spread and use of these weapons forever. But even a few years or decades will see most of us safely off the planet, and that delay is probably what we're trying for.

So I'd say Assad could be in trouble tonight.

I agree with most of what you say, but I'm not sure that your comment is correct when you said that once put military assets in place we use them. We certainly didn't with North Korea. We have moved carrier groups around a number of times in a show of force without engaging an enemy.

 

[dilloduck]

I don't know about getting "fleeced" , I am not sure how you mean that, but as afar as this Syria ME situation being a bi partisan effort, well, that should tell you something. If They are not conspiring against each other who are they conspiring against?....... In short there is no conspiracy. It's the way things have worked from the beginning of time.

America spends billions on our military and all the accessories. It's used in a manner that a hell of a lot of people would strongly object to if they knew. There are discretionary funds for black ops that there is no accounting for. It's bullshit.
The bi partisan effort tells me that both PARTIES will benefit from it OR any PARTY that opposes it will suffer. The American PEOPLE are the ones who will pay for it.

There's a thread on the military-industrial complex this thread is on Syria and the possible use of chemical weapons, Can we please at least try to stay on topic or somewhere close to it thanks bro

no problem---It will be very interesting to see someone try to prove who did it.

 

[Flopper]

An interesting read at the WSJ on the US Mideast strategy. There was a strategy, and it didn't work. They are probably just making things up as they go along right now because there is nothing else to do.

U.S. Mideast Policy Has Failed - WSJ.com

"America's Middle East policy in the past few years depended on the belief that relatively moderate Islamist political movements in the region had the political maturity and administrative capability to run governments wisely and well."

I don't think we have any strategy in the Near East. There are too many players and too many random events occurring. We just react to to the situation.

 

[RandallFlagg]

An interesting read at the WSJ on the US Mideast strategy. There was a strategy, and it didn't work. They are probably just making things up as they go along right now because there is nothing else to do.

U.S. Mideast Policy Has Failed - WSJ.com

"America's Middle East policy in the past few years depended on the belief that relatively moderate Islamist political movements in the region had the political maturity and administrative capability to run governments wisely and well."

I don't think we have any strategy in the Near East. There are too many players and too many random events occurring. We just react to to the situation.

I tend to fall in line with the latter. I truly believe that Barry has NO policy concerning the Middle East. None. He is always in reactive mode rather than proactive mode. People die and he makes a statement. OUR people die and he blames us.

Barry is like a child learning how to walk. Unfortunately, every step he takes, hundreds die. He doesn't know whether to go forward, backward or sideways. His "advisors" are clueless. Meanwhile, the Middle East is burning and people are dying. This is going to get WORSE, not better.

Unfortunately, we are running the risk of watching continuing escalation and the eventual war that will bring untold death to millions when Israel gets attacked. It's coming.

 

[P F Tinmore]

An interesting read at the WSJ on the US Mideast strategy. There was a strategy, and it didn't work. They are probably just making things up as they go along right now because there is nothing else to do.

U.S. Mideast Policy Has Failed - WSJ.com

"America's Middle East policy in the past few years depended on the belief that relatively moderate Islamist political movements in the region had the political maturity and administrative capability to run governments wisely and well."

I don't think we have any strategy in the Near East. There are too many players and too many random events occurring. We just react to to the situation.

I don't think that is true. We were lied into Iraq. We were lied into Libya. We are being lied into Syria.

My bet is that it is the same group of liars with a specific agenda.

 

[Circe]

Umm............I don't know if anyone has told you this yet, but when the Soviet Union collapsed into oblivian, they kept their military. That hasn't changed. The ICBM's are still there and are still targeted to this country. Russia has the ability to barbacue every inch of the good ole' United States of America, in less than a half-hour.

No, I don't believe that.

I think you should.

No, that would be silly.

That was then, and this is now.

We have a lot of problems with foreign relations around the world generally, but there is no danger of war with Russia.

Let's keep the discussion realistic, people --- it's a pretty serious situation over there in the Mideast.

 

[dilloduck]

No, I don't believe that.

I think you should.

No, that would be silly.

That was then, and this is now.

We have a lot of problems with foreign relations around the world generally, but there is no danger of war with Russia.

Let's keep the discussion realistic, people --- it's a pretty serious situation over there in the Mideast.

It's real enough to where we still spend millions defending ourselves from them and economy is a big part of war.

 

[RandallFlagg]

No, I don't believe that.

I think you should.

No, that would be silly.

That was then, and this is now.

We have a lot of problems with foreign relations around the world generally, but there is no danger of war with Russia.

Let's keep the discussion realistic, people --- it's a pretty serious situation over there in the Mideast.

If you knew HALF the things I know about the "former" Soviet Union, you wouldn't be so quick to make that statement..........

Right now? little danger. However, that could change in an instant. Remember one tidbit: Syria has been a STAUNCH supporter of Russia and Russia has been a STAUNCH supporter of Syria for better than 50 years.

 

[Circe]

[

You need to change that damn avatar it's to much of a distraction

True. I can't take any man seriously who posts as a woman with her bottoms showing.

I'll just put that poster on ignore, never mind.

 

[Circe]

I consider ME muslims and one must understand all their different influences and sunni vs shia and of course all of these factors must be considered, but they are brilliant peoples.

These are not stupid individuals.

Of course they are stupid people. If they weren't stupid, they'd be doing better! Richer, more law and order, not bombing and gassing each other by the hundred thousand, not existing on government-subsidized food and then rioting all the time.

The way you tell people who are stupid is to see if they are doing badly. If they can't cope, they are stupid. That's the ghetto problem here, and it's been the problem with the Mideast forever, since the Arabs took over.

When Romans and the Byzantines and the Vandals in Morocco were running things, they were smart people. But since the Arabs took over the whole area, killing and burning their way across northern Africa in the 7th and 8th centuries, they've been dumb as dirt, riding donkeys and starving and killing ever since.

 

[Trajan]

An interesting read at the WSJ on the US Mideast strategy. There was a strategy, and it didn't work. They are probably just making things up as they go along right now because there is nothing else to do.

U.S. Mideast Policy Has Failed - WSJ.com

"America's Middle East policy in the past few years depended on the belief that relatively moderate Islamist political movements in the region had the political maturity and administrative capability to run governments wisely and well."

I don't think we have any strategy in the Near East. There are too many players and too many random events occurring. We just react to to the situation.

I don't think that is true. We were lied into Iraq. We were lied into Libya. We are being lied into Syria.

My bet is that it is the same group of liars with a specific agenda.

And the agenda is........do I have to guess? Go ahead, shock me....

 

[Circe]

I agree with most of what you say, but I'm not sure that your comment is correct when you said that once put military assets in place we use them. We certainly didn't with North Korea. We have moved carrier groups around a number of times in a show of force without engaging an enemy.

Good point. I didn't think of including the sort of "military exercises" that every large state uses as a sort of attention-getting, including in times of the other side threatening.

We do that ALL the time and it works pretty well. The only time it means anything, on our side at least, is when we threaten and warn along with it and it isn't called a "preplanned joint military exercise." As with the second Iraq War.

Sometimes these military exercises (which are a show of force, of course, but don't mean war) lead to trouble -- the Archduke Ferdinand was in Sarejevo for exactly such military exercises. Whoops. The Serb kids took it seriously. WWI resulted.

This time it has been clearly marked as moving military assets into position to use them. So I assume they WILL use them, since that's been the history, as I see it. Let's see if I'm right this time.