Supreme court rules..prayer at public meetings not a constitutional violation.

[The T]

I don't believe in the whole Jehovah/Jesus story anymore than I believe in the Zeus/Apollo or Odin/Thor or Ra/Whoever stories.

That said, feel free to believe in whatever religion you want. To steal from Jefferson, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

That said, but don't do it on the taxpayer's dime or time. It's all I ask.

And even though it means nothing to me, I still say "bless you" when someone sneezes and I always say "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Easter" instead of "Happy Holidays" just because I know it makes some people happy.

How does praying (whether it be in public or in private) cause any concern among the taxpayers? Would the 15 seconds it takes to say the Lords Prayer REALLY do THAT much damage? Just curious.....

Just some speech is tolerated...and/or practice of religion...or not.

Can't believe people get their panties in a wad over this stuff Randall.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Link?

Randall, you are not part of Sil's and my conversation. She knows exactly where are the links. Run along.

C'Mon big shot! You claim that you "do not support child abuse.."

Prove it. You demand proof from everyone else who makes a declarative statement, now YOU do the same.

Go and look for them, Randall. My statement has been validated. Your duty is go back and do due diligence.

 

[The T]

Randall, you are not part of Sil's and my conversation. She knows exactly where are the links. Run along.

C'Mon big shot! You claim that you "do not support child abuse.."

Prove it. You demand proof from everyone else who makes a declarative statement, now YOU do the same.

Go and look for them, Randall. My statement has been validated. Your duty is go back and do due diligence.

NO fakey...YOU don't get away that easy. YOU prove it shitstain.

 

[Pheonixops]

Told ya so:

"
The court, in a 5-to-4 ruling today, said those prayers don't violate the Constitution -- even if they routinely emphasize Christianity -- as long as there's no effort to proselytize or to denigrate non-Christians. Justice Anthony Kennedy said the prayers are ceremonial, and in keeping with the nation's traditions. He wrote that they are designed to "acknowledge religious leaders and the institutions they represent," and not to "exclude or coerce nonbelievers."

A sad day for the anti-Christian fascists indeed.

High court ruling favors prayer at council meeting - WTOP.com

How is it a sad day for so-called "anti-Christian fascists"? Did they state that the only prayer that can be recited is a Christian one? Did they restrict Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, Satanists, etc from reciting their prayers at public meetings?

 

[RandallFlagg]

Randall, you are not part of Sil's and my conversation. She knows exactly where are the links. Run along.

C'Mon big shot! You claim that you "do not support child abuse.."

Prove it. You demand proof from everyone else who makes a declarative statement, now YOU do the same.

Go and look for them, Randall. My statement has been validated. Your duty is go back and do due diligence.

Wrong answer Professor. MY job is to hold YOU to the same standards you hold everyone else to.

So, your proof that you do not support child abuse?

 

[Pheonixops]

If God is the guiding force of US politicians then God is a failure.

God is a crutch for the weak and stupid, or a bludgeon to be used by those in power to gain more power. God does not serve any other purpose.

Fascism and religion share the trait of forcing everyone to convert through fear, violence, and/or propaganda. It doesn't matter what name you call "God". God, Jesus, Allah, Yahweh, Krishna, L. Ron- it's all the same fictional stone-age gibberish. We don't have the internet because of Jesus, we don't have armed drones because of Buddha, we don't have a nuclear arsenal capable of killing every life form on Earth because of the Bible.

If God is the guiding force of US politicians then God is a failure.

That sounds like something Ingersoll would say.

 

[Steven_R]

I don't believe in the whole Jehovah/Jesus story anymore than I believe in the Zeus/Apollo or Odin/Thor or Ra/Whoever stories.

That said, feel free to believe in whatever religion you want. To steal from Jefferson, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

That said, but don't do it on the taxpayer's dime or time. It's all I ask.

And even though it means nothing to me, I still say "bless you" when someone sneezes and I always say "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Easter" instead of "Happy Holidays" just because I know it makes some people happy.

How does praying (whether it be in public or in private) cause any concern among the taxpayers? Would the 15 seconds it takes to say the Lords Prayer REALLY do THAT much damage? Just curious.....

Which part of the state's duties requires an appeal to God? Which part of a state employee's job requires he take time to pray while on the clock?

Want to pray or build a monument to your God, go ahead, but it is not right to ask the taxpayers to foot the bill or provide the resources to do it.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Told ya so:

"
The court, in a 5-to-4 ruling today, said those prayers don't violate the Constitution -- even if they routinely emphasize Christianity -- as long as there's no effort to proselytize or to denigrate non-Christians. Justice Anthony Kennedy said the prayers are ceremonial, and in keeping with the nation's traditions. He wrote that they are designed to "acknowledge religious leaders and the institutions they represent," and not to "exclude or coerce nonbelievers."

A sad day for the anti-Christian fascists indeed.

High court ruling favors prayer at council meeting - WTOP.com

How is it a sad day for so-called "anti-Christian fascists"? Did they state that the only prayer that can be recited is a Christian one? Did they restrict Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, Satanists, etc from reciting their prayers at public meetings?

The easy answer to that is Yes*



* until sued but they have been business as usual since then.

 

[The T]

I don't believe in the whole Jehovah/Jesus story anymore than I believe in the Zeus/Apollo or Odin/Thor or Ra/Whoever stories.

That said, feel free to believe in whatever religion you want. To steal from Jefferson, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.

That said, but don't do it on the taxpayer's dime or time. It's all I ask.

And even though it means nothing to me, I still say "bless you" when someone sneezes and I always say "Merry Christmas" and "Happy Easter" instead of "Happy Holidays" just because I know it makes some people happy.

How does praying (whether it be in public or in private) cause any concern among the taxpayers? Would the 15 seconds it takes to say the Lords Prayer REALLY do THAT much damage? Just curious.....

Which part of the state's duties requires an appeal to God? Which part of a state employee's job requires he take time to pray while on the clock?

Want to pray or build a monument to your God, go ahead, but it is not right to ask the taxpayers to foot the bill or provide the resources to do it.

And WHAT business is it of YOURS, MINE what that employees does?

That's right...NONE. Word? BUTT OUT.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

How does praying (whether it be in public or in private) cause any concern among the taxpayers? Would the 15 seconds it takes to say the Lords Prayer REALLY do THAT much damage? Just curious.....

Which part of the state's duties requires an appeal to God? Which part of a state employee's job requires he take time to pray while on the clock?

Want to pray or build a monument to your God, go ahead, but it is not right to ask the taxpayers to foot the bill or provide the resources to do it.

And WHAT business is it of YOURS, MINE what that employees does?

That's right...NONE. Word? BUTT OUT.

Taxpayers revolt, but not about prayers to a certain god being said at our expense.

 

[jillian]

How does praying (whether it be in public or in private) cause any concern among the taxpayers? Would the 15 seconds it takes to say the Lords Prayer REALLY do THAT much damage? Just curious.....

Which part of the state's duties requires an appeal to God? Which part of a state employee's job requires he take time to pray while on the clock?

Want to pray or build a monument to your God, go ahead, but it is not right to ask the taxpayers to foot the bill or provide the resources to do it.

And WHAT business is it of YOURS, MINE what that employees does?

That's right...NONE. Word? BUTT OUT.

see... there's your problem... your conclusion is fallacious and ignorant. yet you presume it's correct.

why is it my business? because the constitution protects me from the christian majority and saying we can walk out if we don't like it, is missing the point of the first amendment.

not surprising from the rightwingnut court that seems to have forgotten its purpose is not to satisfy people of any particular religion

 

[Vigilante]

Huff-Po writer horrified at Supreme Court prayer ruling!!

Truly a classic callout of the subversive left!


Listen to an audio version of this column

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Huff-Po writer horrified at Supreme Court prayer ruling!!

Truly a classic callout of the subversive left!

Your god is once again just tradition and ceremony, who should not bother the faithless because prayers really don't mean anything specific. I wonder, does Jesus have an alternate view?

 

[Vigilante]

Huff-Po writer horrified at Supreme Court prayer ruling!!

Truly a classic callout of the subversive left!

Your god is once again just tradition and ceremony, who should not bother the faithless because prayers really don't mean anything specific. I wonder, does Jesus have an alternate view?

My God? I'm an agnostic, that usually stands with my GOD believing brothers! Since a vast majority of American's believe in a GOD, one way or the other, I see no problem with something that only brings good feelings, and camaraderie to our citizens. Others that don't like it, can leave so they don't have to be offended by moral, ethical, and principled words.

Did you have this much of a problem with the students that couldn't wear American Flags T-Shirts to school on May 5th, or is it only the mention of GOD that makes you wet your pants?

 

[guno]

Which part of the state's duties requires an appeal to God? Which part of a state employee's job requires he take time to pray while on the clock?

Want to pray or build a monument to your God, go ahead, but it is not right to ask the taxpayers to foot the bill or provide the resources to do it.

And WHAT business is it of YOURS, MINE what that employees does?

That's right...NONE. Word? BUTT OUT.

see... there's your problem... your conclusion is fallacious and ignorant. yet you presume it's correct.

why is it my business? because the constitution protects me from the christian majority and saying we can walk out if we don't like it, is missing the point of the first amendment.

not surprising from the rightwingnut court that seems to have forgotten its purpose is not to satisfy people of any particular religion

The entire purpose of having christians braying incantations to their god jr at public meetings is to show everyone that they are the majority (for now anyway) can you imagine if someone invited an Imam to bray before a meeting, the christians would go ape shit. It's a show for them in a generation that will be one away with

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Huff-Po writer horrified at Supreme Court prayer ruling!!

Truly a classic callout of the subversive left!

Your god is once again just tradition and ceremony, who should not bother the faithless because prayers really don't mean anything specific. I wonder, does Jesus have an alternate view?

My God? I'm an agnostic, that usually stands with my GOD believing brothers! Since a vast majority of American's believe in a GOD, one way or the other, I see no problem with something that only brings good feelings, and camaraderie to our citizens. Others that don't like it, can leave so they don't have to be offended by moral, ethical, and principled words.

Did you have this much of a problem with the students that couldn't wear American Flags T-Shirts to school on May 5th, or is it only the mention of GOD that makes you wet your pants?

I have a problem with the God being treated as if prayers to him aren't actual religion, just something people do that's essentially meaningless. That is not at all what the faith requires.

And learn what In Loco Parentis means. When at school they have every right to say to your kid, you aren't going to class wearing that young lady, not a chance in hell. That's their job.

And if you are Agnostic BTW, good for you. Atheists and Theists are morons.

 

[guno]

And WHAT business is it of YOURS, MINE what that employees does?

That's right...NONE. Word? BUTT OUT.

see... there's your problem... your conclusion is fallacious and ignorant. yet you presume it's correct.

why is it my business? because the constitution protects me from the christian majority and saying we can walk out if we don't like it, is missing the point of the first amendment.

not surprising from the rightwingnut court that seems to have forgotten its purpose is not to satisfy people of any particular religion

The entire purpose of having christians braying incantations to their god jr at public meetings is to show everyone that they are the majority (for now anyway) can you imagine if someone invited an Imam to bray before a meeting, the christians would go ape shit. It's a show for them in a generation that will be one away with

It is inappropriate and coercive for public officials—many of whom have tax-paid positions and all of whom take an oath to uphold secular constitutions—to schedule prayer at government functions, or open government meetings with prayer and religious ritual.

Is an Establishment Clause violation occurring in the context of legislative prayer at your state legislature, city council, planning commission, school board, etc.? How will you know?

If you are concerned that a local or state government body, which represents your interests, may be violating the constitutional principle of separation of church and state in the context of legislative prayer, look for the following indications:

Invocations of specific deities, saints, prophets, etc., such as Jesus Christ, Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah, Mohammed, Joseph Smith, Buddha, Krishna, Isis, etc.
Invocation of a specific faith's deities to the near or total exclusion of other faiths' deities, i.e., your state legislature quotes only biblical scripture and invokes only Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, but never invokes deities or entities representing other faiths or denominations.
Prayer leaders are clergy members or religious leaders, who represent only one particular faith, to the near or total exclusion of other faiths, i.e., your city council's prayer leaders are all Catholic priests.
Prayer content includes disparaging and denigrating remarks about certain faiths, beliefs or non-beliefs.
Prayer content includes indications of preference for one particular faith or belief over another or others.
Prayer content encourages listeners (government body members, visitors, and/or citizens) to follow the tenets of a specific or any faith or belief.

It is no surprise that the sc agree to christain prayers, look who the majority is. They violated the establishment clause

 

[Vigilante]

Your god is once again just tradition and ceremony, who should not bother the faithless because prayers really don't mean anything specific. I wonder, does Jesus have an alternate view?

My God? I'm an agnostic, that usually stands with my GOD believing brothers! Since a vast majority of American's believe in a GOD, one way or the other, I see no problem with something that only brings good feelings, and camaraderie to our citizens. Others that don't like it, can leave so they don't have to be offended by moral, ethical, and principled words.

Did you have this much of a problem with the students that couldn't wear American Flags T-Shirts to school on May 5th, or is it only the mention of GOD that makes you wet your pants?

I have a problem with the God being treated as if prayers to him aren't actual religion, just something people do that's essentially meaningless. That is not at all what the faith requires.

And learn what In Loco Parentis means. When at school they have every right to say to your kid, you aren't going to class wearing that young lady, not a chance in hell. That's their job.

And if you are Agnostic BTW, good for you. Atheists and Theists are morons.

That's a shame, that you have left your morals, ethics and principles, in that old car you sold! As stated, you don't like it leave, or keep taking it to court, that's what the good people that believe abortion is murder do. The SCOTUS fucked that up, but we are still working on them!

And when a school boards treats the American Flag, just like a T-Shirt with a gun on it, but allows a **** YOU T-Shirt, most of us patriots (I do exclude the deluded, demented subversives) take exception to our National symbol being treated as such.

I do agree with your view on atheists, ...theists, I really have no argument with, as an agnostic I simply don't know!

 

[guno]

see... there's your problem... your conclusion is fallacious and ignorant. yet you presume it's correct.

why is it my business? because the constitution protects me from the christian majority and saying we can walk out if we don't like it, is missing the point of the first amendment.

not surprising from the rightwingnut court that seems to have forgotten its purpose is not to satisfy people of any particular religion

The entire purpose of having christians braying incantations to their god jr at public meetings is to show everyone that they are the majority (for now anyway) can you imagine if someone invited an Imam to bray before a meeting, the christians would go ape shit. It's a show for them in a generation that will be one away with

It is inappropriate and coercive for public officials—many of whom have tax-paid positions and all of whom take an oath to uphold secular constitutions—to schedule prayer at government functions, or open government meetings with prayer and religious ritual.

Is an Establishment Clause violation occurring in the context of legislative prayer at your state legislature, city council, planning commission, school board, etc.? How will you know?

If you are concerned that a local or state government body, which represents your interests, may be violating the constitutional principle of separation of church and state in the context of legislative prayer, look for the following indications:

Invocations of specific deities, saints, prophets, etc., such as Jesus Christ, Allah, Yahweh, Jehovah, Mohammed, Joseph Smith, Buddha, Krishna, Isis, etc.
Invocation of a specific faith's deities to the near or total exclusion of other faiths' deities, i.e., your state legislature quotes only biblical scripture and invokes only Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, but never invokes deities or entities representing other faiths or denominations.
Prayer leaders are clergy members or religious leaders, who represent only one particular faith, to the near or total exclusion of other faiths, i.e., your city council's prayer leaders are all Catholic priests.
Prayer content includes disparaging and denigrating remarks about certain faiths, beliefs or non-beliefs.
Prayer content includes indications of preference for one particular faith or belief over another or others.
Prayer content encourages listeners (government body members, visitors, and/or citizens) to follow the tenets of a specific or any faith or belief.

It is no surprise that the sc agree to christain prayers, look who the majority is. They violated the establishment clause

Let me present a hypothetical situation that gets to the heart of the Supreme Court's unfortunate decision on prayer at local government meetings. I'll make the setting Carroll County because that's where elected officials eagerly invoke Jesus Christ at meetings of the Board of County Commissioners.
Let's say you own a piece of property in some increasingly suburbanized section of the county. You want it rezoned so you can build a convenience store and gas station. You have to convince the commissioners that the area has changed enough to warrant rezoning. On advice of counsel, you attend the meeting to make a personal appeal to the commissioners.
Let's say you happen to be Jewish, or Muslim, something that isn't Christian. Maybe you wear a yarmulke or turban, a kufi or headscarf.

So you've come to the county commissioners, plat in hand, and you hear one of them, Robin Frazier, launch into a prayer — the same one she recited at a commissioners meeting in March:
"Oh Lord our God, most mighty and merciful Father, I, thine unworthy creature and servant, do once more approach thy presence."
Unless you're offended at the choice of "Father" over "Mother," nothing wrong so far. Here's more:
"Though not worthy to appear before thee, because of my natural corruptions and the many sins and transgressions which I have committed against thy divine majesty; yet I beseech thee, for the sake of him in whom thou art well pleased, the Lord Jesus Christ."

A little later, there's a reference to the Holy Spirit: "Let me have all my directions from thy Holy Spirit and success from thy bountiful hand."
You listen to Frazier go on and on, and maybe it's making you uncomfortable, maybe not. Maybe you just figure this is the way they do things in Carroll County. You're there to conduct business, and you're wondering when the religious prelude ends. Then, suddenly, you hear Frazier's big finish:
"Let thy blessings guide this day and forever through Jesus Christ in whose blessed form of prayer I conclude my weak petitions."
The actual meeting begins. It's your turn to make a direct appeal to Frazier and the other commissioners to grant your zoning request. The Christian prayer might have made you uncomfortable. You wonder if you'll get a fair hearing.
And, in the good ole U.S.A., you shouldn't be made to feel that way. Your faith — and the faith of elected officials — should have nothing to do with whether you get to build a Wawa.
That's one of the reasons the Supreme Court's decision about prayer at public meetings is a bad one: It allows a government to express favor for one religion over others.
In a 5-4 vote, the court held that the town of Greece, in upstate New York, did not violate the Constitution by starting public meetings with prayers that were almost always Christian. The ruling paves the way for Frazier and the Carroll commissioners to resume prayers invoking Christ before their public meetings. (In March, a federal judge in Baltimore had ordered the commissioners to stop doing just that.)
"It's a frustrating and disingenuous decision," says Michael Meyerson, the University of Baltimore law professor whose 2012 book, "Endowed by Our Creator: The Birth of Religious Freedom in America," was cited in the court's majority opinion. While pleased with that, Meyerson noted that the quote from his book was "taken out of context and [used] by the wrong side."


Read more: Supreme Court ruling on prayer at government meetings is "frustrating, disingenuous," professor says - baltimoresun.com


This is something Jews and Muslims can unite on, against the crusaders.

Remember what goes around comes around.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Here come the Christians: Roanoke County supervisor ready to strike prayer policy after Supreme Court ruling - Roanoke County News - Mobile

For the rest of you, you'll get nothing, and like it, since you don't matter but you paid for it. It's Mob Rule for the Christian god. Y'all have fun now.