Supreme Court Rules 7-2 on Obamacare

[dblack]

Since you claim to be a libertarian...

I don't "claim to be a libertarian" - I'm tired of arm-wrestling over labels and definitions. I just don't want politicians fucking with healthcare.

You never could explain how you're libertarian or why totalitarian leftists love you and they are the only ones you ever agree with

LOL. Yeah. I'm really feeling the love from the totalitarian leftists.

 

[kaz]

Since you claim to be a libertarian...

I don't "claim to be a libertarian" - I'm tired of arm-wrestling over labels and definitions. I just don't want politicians fucking with healthcare.

You never could explain how you're libertarian or why totalitarian leftists love you and they are the only ones you ever agree with

LOL. Yeah. I'm really feeling the love from the totalitarian leftists.

Democrats calling you a racist and a fascist and a Nazi like they do everyone else? Wait, they aren't doing that ... Yeah, you're in some pretty heavy slap and tickle fights, it's brutal, huh?

 

[Dana7360]

It was just announced that the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on Obamacare saying the states don't have standing on this case.

So Obamacare stays.

For now.

Supreme Court spares Obamacare from GOP challenge

Two of Trump's three appointees, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, joined the majority opinion, while the third, Neil Gorsuch, dissented.

www.nbcnews.com

You fuckers love you some big government. The "Individual Mandate" is unconstitutional. The Fed can not force you to buy goods and services. Calling it a tax is legal bullshit.

They want what they want. Some people want to be taken care of and there's no convincing them it's a bad idea.

Well that would include your hero and creator of the libertarian policy.

ayn rand.

Most of her life she swore she would never take a penny from the government. She said it was slavery to do so.

When she got cancer, she ran to the federal government for help to not die.

That's the thing. When a libertarian doesn't need health care they have your impractical and unworkable policy.

When it comes to the real world, that policy is thrown right out the window and they very quickly run to the federal government.

That is why your libertarian policy only exists in a fiction novel.

It can only exist in fiction because it doesn't work, destroys economies and nations, kills people and turns most of the society into slaves.

When you have a medical problem that you can't pay for you will either die or you will take all the medical help you can get but won't be able to pay all the thousands of dollars it costs so you won't pay for it leaving responsible people like me to pay for it in higher health care costs.

Or are you a hypocrite and have that health insurance you hate and are advocating to get rid of?

LOL - like I said, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. The government loves you.

Like I said in my post, your libertarian policies can't work.

I noticed you didn't answer my question about you having insurance.

That leads me to believe you didn't answer it because you are a hypocrite and have that insurance you hate and want to do away with. Leaving millions to die.

I tore your libertarian policy to shreds and that's all you have for a reply?

You would have been better off not replying.

The government loves you too. You are as much a part of the health care mess as everyone else in our nation.

Thankfully your libertarian policies will never be implemented.

OK. Got it. The government is your lord and savior. And there's no point debating religious faith.

I just wish you weren't so hell bent on forcing your faith on everyone else.

I'm not christian or any of the religions that most people are. So leave religion out of this. It has absolutely nothing to do with health care and the fact that the Supreme Court threw out the case because the plaintiffs have no standing.

The government isn't my lord and savior. In fact, the only thing I've ever taken from the government is an IRS refund of my own money due to overpaying through the year in federal taxes.

As I've said, I don't like the system we have now. However it's the only system we can have thanks to conservatives and greedy people.

So instead of whining about it. Instead of advocating a system that doesn't work and kills people, I choose to work within the system we do have.

I can't change the system so I do the mature and adult thing. Accept what I can't change and work within it so I have proper medical care.

You are what you claim I am since you buy health insurance. So look in a mirror, you are seeing what you claim I am. That's on top of you being a hypocrite.

 

[Dana7360]

It was just announced that the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on Obamacare saying the states don't have standing on this case.

So Obamacare stays.

For now.

Supreme Court spares Obamacare from GOP challenge

Two of Trump's three appointees, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, joined the majority opinion, while the third, Neil Gorsuch, dissented.

www.nbcnews.com

You fuckers love you some big government. The "Individual Mandate" is unconstitutional. The Fed can not force you to buy goods and services. Calling it a tax is legal bullshit.

They want what they want. Some people want to be taken care of and there's no convincing them it's a bad idea.

Well that would include your hero and creator of the libertarian policy.

ayn rand.

Most of her life she swore she would never take a penny from the government. She said it was slavery to do so.

When she got cancer, she ran to the federal government for help to not die.

That's the thing. When a libertarian doesn't need health care they have your impractical and unworkable policy.

When it comes to the real world, that policy is thrown right out the window and they very quickly run to the federal government.

That is why your libertarian policy only exists in a fiction novel.

It can only exist in fiction because it doesn't work, destroys economies and nations, kills people and turns most of the society into slaves.

When you have a medical problem that you can't pay for you will either die or you will take all the medical help you can get but won't be able to pay all the thousands of dollars it costs so you won't pay for it leaving responsible people like me to pay for it in higher health care costs.

Or are you a hypocrite and have that health insurance you hate and are advocating to get rid of?

LOL - like I said, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. The government loves you.

Like I said in my post, your libertarian policies can't work.

I noticed you didn't answer my question about you having insurance.

That leads me to believe you didn't answer it because you are a hypocrite and have that insurance you hate and want to do away with. Leaving millions to die.

I tore your libertarian policy to shreds and that's all you have for a reply?

You would have been better off not replying.

The government loves you too. You are as much a part of the health care mess as everyone else in our nation.

Thankfully your libertarian policies will never be implemented.

OK. Got it. The government is your lord and savior. And there's no point debating religious faith.

I just wish you weren't so hell bent on forcing your faith on everyone else.

Since you claim to be a libertarian; I understand why you could never provide any examples of this "normal health insurance" in practice...

Because being a libertarian, you similarly can't provide any examples of a successful libertarian country existing today or ever

That's because it can only exist where it came from.

A FICTION NOVEL.

There's a reason why it's fiction. It's not real and can never work if implemented.

 

[dblack]

It was just announced that the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on Obamacare saying the states don't have standing on this case.

So Obamacare stays.

For now.

Supreme Court spares Obamacare from GOP challenge

Two of Trump's three appointees, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, joined the majority opinion, while the third, Neil Gorsuch, dissented.

www.nbcnews.com

You fuckers love you some big government. The "Individual Mandate" is unconstitutional. The Fed can not force you to buy goods and services. Calling it a tax is legal bullshit.

They want what they want. Some people want to be taken care of and there's no convincing them it's a bad idea.

Well that would include your hero and creator of the libertarian policy.

ayn rand.

Most of her life she swore she would never take a penny from the government. She said it was slavery to do so.

When she got cancer, she ran to the federal government for help to not die.

That's the thing. When a libertarian doesn't need health care they have your impractical and unworkable policy.

When it comes to the real world, that policy is thrown right out the window and they very quickly run to the federal government.

That is why your libertarian policy only exists in a fiction novel.

It can only exist in fiction because it doesn't work, destroys economies and nations, kills people and turns most of the society into slaves.

When you have a medical problem that you can't pay for you will either die or you will take all the medical help you can get but won't be able to pay all the thousands of dollars it costs so you won't pay for it leaving responsible people like me to pay for it in higher health care costs.

Or are you a hypocrite and have that health insurance you hate and are advocating to get rid of?

LOL - like I said, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. The government loves you.

Like I said in my post, your libertarian policies can't work.

I noticed you didn't answer my question about you having insurance.

That leads me to believe you didn't answer it because you are a hypocrite and have that insurance you hate and want to do away with. Leaving millions to die.

I tore your libertarian policy to shreds and that's all you have for a reply?

You would have been better off not replying.

The government loves you too. You are as much a part of the health care mess as everyone else in our nation.

Thankfully your libertarian policies will never be implemented.

OK. Got it. The government is your lord and savior. And there's no point debating religious faith.

I just wish you weren't so hell bent on forcing your faith on everyone else.

I'm not christian or any of the religions that most people are. So leave religion out of this. It has absolutely nothing to do with health care and the fact that the Supreme Court threw out the case because the plaintiffs have no standing.

The government isn't my lord and savior. In fact, the only thing I've ever taken from the government is an IRS refund of my own money due to overpaying through the year in federal taxes.

As I've said, I don't like the system we have now. However it's the only system we can have thanks to conservatives and greedy people.

So instead of whining about it. Instead of advocating a system that doesn't work and kills people, I choose to work within the system we do have.

I can't change the system so I do the mature and adult thing. Accept what I can't change and work within it so I have proper medical care.

You are what you claim I am since you buy health insurance. So look in a mirror, you are seeing what you claim I am. That's on top of you being a hypocrite.

Whatever. I respect that you have a different view. I just wish you'd refrain from trying to force it on others.

 

[Flopper]

I understand the mindset that holds Americans back from demanding better. And yes, some of you still, after many years of torture, still think that for profit health care is going to come to the rescue

Do you undercut? I don’t think you do. I don’t think that you truly understand how many of us do not want anything from the Government; whether we’ve paid for it or not.

It’s not that we somehow believe the insure companies have our best interests at heart. We know they don’t. We’d just rather take the chance of getting care for our bodies there than doing harm to our Souls by dealing with the Government.

If you want nothing from the government then only drive on your roads, go to your schools, have your own military, have your own fire fighters, have your own police, if you cannot pay for health care, die.

You don't die if you have health care..


Who knew?

Well Bear, you do die with insurance and/or a lot of money, but most likely not as fast as if you were only given healthcare if you could pay for it or had insurance.
I know this is a very complex idea. Have your mother explain it to you.

Talk about drinking the Kool aid

That is not Kool Aid, that is the real world; no sugar added. How old are you. You sound like a person who has not experienced much in life or are very stupid or both.

Old enough to know I don't need health insurance and am not paying for your fat ass

Right now, if you do not have health insurance, you basically can't get an appointment to see a doctor.
Instead you have to go to the ER, because they are required by law to not turn people away.
But they giver really bad health care for most things.

I have no idea, haven't been to a doctor in like 30 years except for employees mandated drug tests

I understand the mindset that holds Americans back from demanding better. And yes, some of you still, after many years of torture, still think that for profit health care is going to come to the rescue

Do you undercut? I don’t think you do. I don’t think that you truly understand how many of us do not want anything from the Government; whether we’ve paid for it or not.

It’s not that we somehow believe the insure companies have our best interests at heart. We know they don’t. We’d just rather take the chance of getting care for our bodies there than doing harm to our Souls by dealing with the Government.

If you want nothing from the government then only drive on your roads, go to your schools, have your own military, have your own fire fighters, have your own police, if you cannot pay for health care, die.

You don't die if you have health care..


Who knew?

Well Bear, you do die with insurance and/or a lot of money, but most likely not as fast as if you were only given healthcare if you could pay for it or had insurance.
I know this is a very complex idea. Have your mother explain it to you.

Talk about drinking the Kool aid

That is not Kool Aid, that is the real world; no sugar added. How old are you. You sound like a person who has not experienced much in life or are very stupid or both.

Old enough to know I don't need health insurance and am not paying for your fat ass

Right now, if you do not have health insurance, you basically can't get an appointment to see a doctor.
Instead you have to go to the ER, because they are required by law to not turn people away.
But they giver really bad health care for most things.

If you don't have insurance and you are not an established patient you are likely to be sent to the ER. However, if you look at small practices and walk-ins you will find someone that will see you but they probably will want an imprint of your credit card before you see the doctor. Places like this usually treat minor infections and injuries, such as sore throats, FLU, small cuts and burns, required medical exams, etc. The most common treatment is something to relieve the symptoms. If the doctor suspects that it could be something more serious going on, they will refer you to an ER. And that is where the uninsured find themselves between the rock and the hard place. Skip the ER and hope for best or go and face some potentially huge bills.

 

[Flopper]

Under the ACA it is illegal to based a person's premiums on usage.

Right. The entire premise of ACA is a denial of the basic concept of insurance. We're trying to turn it into a social safety net. It won't work, it will just become more and more dysfunctional and eventually the government will take over altogether. But hey, it will make the insurance companies a boatload of money in the process!

We should have this kind "insurance" for all of life's necessities. Won't that be fun!

Under the ACA, what we call health insurance plans are really healthcare plans. Insurance protects you against unlikely medical conditions that would likely wipe you out financially. Healthcare plans provide you with coverage against all healthcare peril, large or small plus providing you with preventive care that will stop or prevent potentially life threating medical conditions. Healthcare plans protect both the individual and society because society benefits when their members are healthier.

 

[Dana7360]

It was just announced that the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 on Obamacare saying the states don't have standing on this case.

So Obamacare stays.

For now.

Supreme Court spares Obamacare from GOP challenge

Two of Trump's three appointees, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, joined the majority opinion, while the third, Neil Gorsuch, dissented.

www.nbcnews.com

You fuckers love you some big government. The "Individual Mandate" is unconstitutional. The Fed can not force you to buy goods and services. Calling it a tax is legal bullshit.

They want what they want. Some people want to be taken care of and there's no convincing them it's a bad idea.

Well that would include your hero and creator of the libertarian policy.

ayn rand.

Most of her life she swore she would never take a penny from the government. She said it was slavery to do so.

When she got cancer, she ran to the federal government for help to not die.

That's the thing. When a libertarian doesn't need health care they have your impractical and unworkable policy.

When it comes to the real world, that policy is thrown right out the window and they very quickly run to the federal government.

That is why your libertarian policy only exists in a fiction novel.

It can only exist in fiction because it doesn't work, destroys economies and nations, kills people and turns most of the society into slaves.

When you have a medical problem that you can't pay for you will either die or you will take all the medical help you can get but won't be able to pay all the thousands of dollars it costs so you won't pay for it leaving responsible people like me to pay for it in higher health care costs.

Or are you a hypocrite and have that health insurance you hate and are advocating to get rid of?

LOL - like I said, I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. The government loves you.

Like I said in my post, your libertarian policies can't work.

I noticed you didn't answer my question about you having insurance.

That leads me to believe you didn't answer it because you are a hypocrite and have that insurance you hate and want to do away with. Leaving millions to die.

I tore your libertarian policy to shreds and that's all you have for a reply?

You would have been better off not replying.

The government loves you too. You are as much a part of the health care mess as everyone else in our nation.

Thankfully your libertarian policies will never be implemented.

OK. Got it. The government is your lord and savior. And there's no point debating religious faith.

I just wish you weren't so hell bent on forcing your faith on everyone else.

I'm not christian or any of the religions that most people are. So leave religion out of this. It has absolutely nothing to do with health care and the fact that the Supreme Court threw out the case because the plaintiffs have no standing.

The government isn't my lord and savior. In fact, the only thing I've ever taken from the government is an IRS refund of my own money due to overpaying through the year in federal taxes.

As I've said, I don't like the system we have now. However it's the only system we can have thanks to conservatives and greedy people.

So instead of whining about it. Instead of advocating a system that doesn't work and kills people, I choose to work within the system we do have.

I can't change the system so I do the mature and adult thing. Accept what I can't change and work within it so I have proper medical care.

You are what you claim I am since you buy health insurance. So look in a mirror, you are seeing what you claim I am. That's on top of you being a hypocrite.

Whatever. I respect that you have a different view. I just wish you'd refrain from trying to force it on others.

I respect you have a different view.

I don't force my views on other people.

 

[dblack]

I respect you have a different view.

I don't force my views on other people.

But you vote for politicians who pass laws that do.

Let me ask you this, would you be in favor of allowing people to opt out? Both from using it and from paying for it?

 

[Westender]

Republicans and Conservatives lose again.

You mean middle class loses again. Obamacare raised healthcare on the middle class to give free healthcare to people that are to sorry to pay for their own.

 

[Donald H]

America's health care system?

What a pathetic and cruel hoax the system is playing on the American people!

And best of all, some thoroughly indoctrinated lameasses are defending it still!
OH, and claiming to be free while they screech on about the rest of the world being hijacked out of HC by their COMMUNIST systems.

 

[dblack]

America's health care system?

What a pathetic and cruel hoax the system is playing on the American people!

And best of all, some thoroughly indoctrinated lameasses are defending it still!

I'm not defending it. I just want to make things better, rather than worse. Unfortunately, most reform proposals are simply doubling down on the same bad ideas that drove us into this corner in the first place.

 

[Donald H]

America's health care system?

What a pathetic and cruel hoax the system is playing on the American people!

And best of all, some thoroughly indoctrinated lameasses are defending it still!

I'm not defending it. I just want to make things better, rather than worse. Unfortunately, most reform proposals are simply doubling down on the same bad ideas that drove us into this corner in the first place.

Big business stands in the way of the only obvious answer. And politicians on both sides in America are paid to ensure that big business, for profit HC survives.
Only government can do it on HC.
But that's not to say that America's government can do it. It's too corrupt, for the above mentioned reasons, to fix it.

I see no way forward other than the people rising up and demanding reform on HC and many other issues.

The Trumpers protesting on Jan.6 were an indication of the people beginning to make something happen, even though the movement was hijacked by Trump for his personal gain.

 

[dblack]

America's health care system?

What a pathetic and cruel hoax the system is playing on the American people!

And best of all, some thoroughly indoctrinated lameasses are defending it still!

I'm not defending it. I just want to make things better, rather than worse. Unfortunately, most reform proposals are simply doubling down on the same bad ideas that drove us into this corner in the first place.

Big business stands in the way of the only obvious answer.

The "only obvious answer" is the problem. Sometimes, "obvious" is just plain wrong.

But that's not to say that America's government can do it. It's too corrupt, for the above mentioned reasons, to fix it.

Yep. We won't get socialism. Our country isn't designed for socialism. If we try, we'll just get corporatism, socialism's kissin' cousin.

I see no way forward other than the people rising up and demanding reform on HC and many other issues.

What sort of reform did you have in mind? Anything besides putting politicians in charge?

The Trumpers protesting on Jan.6 were an indication of the people beginning to make something happen, even though the movement was hijacked by Trump for his personal gain.

The Trumpers protesting on Jan. 6th were an indication of just how fucking stupid and destructive people can be, especially when led by an amoral populist.

 

[Donald H]

America's health care system?

What a pathetic and cruel hoax the system is playing on the American people!

And best of all, some thoroughly indoctrinated lameasses are defending it still!

I'm not defending it. I just want to make things better, rather than worse. Unfortunately, most reform proposals are simply doubling down on the same bad ideas that drove us into this corner in the first place.

Big business stands in the way of the only obvious answer.

The "only obvious answer" is the problem. Sometimes, "obvious" is just plain wrong.

But that's not to say that America's government can do it. It's too corrupt, for the above mentioned reasons, to fix it.

Yep. We won't get socialism. Our country isn't designed for socialism. If we try, we'll just get corporatism, socialism's kissin' cousin.

I see no way forward other than the people rising up and demanding reform on HC and many other issues.

What sort of reform did you have in mind? Anything besides putting politicians in charge?

The Trumpers protesting on Jan.6 were an indication of the people beginning to make something happen, even though the movement was hijacked by Trump for his personal gain.

You've been handed the straight answers on HC and there's nothing left to debate on that.

The Trumpers protesting on Jan. 6th were an indication of just how fucking stupid and destructive people can be, especially when led by an amoral populist.

There's truth in what you say, but also misunderstanding. Trump motivate angry American working class people to fight for his cause. But they had to be angered for a greater reason, which was in fact stated.

Bad government!

HC is the applicable part of bad government in this topic.

The American people are ready to rise up and demand better government; a piece of the American pie.

The politician who can insert him/herself as the leader of that cause will be your next president.

And that's not to say that he/she will be an honest leader of the people's cause. Just to say that he/she will have convinced the people of it.

Fwiw, I would say that Trump is now out of the running. He had his chance and he failed.

Biden is currently in the process of failing too because: go back to politicians being corrupted by money ..................................

 

[dblack]

Trump motivate angry American working class people to fight for his cause. But they had to be angered for a greater reason, which was in fact stated.

Bad government!

HC is the applicable part of bad government in this topic.

The American people are ready to rise up and demand better government; a piece of the American pie.

The politician who can insert him/herself as the leader of that cause will be your next president.

And that's not to say that he/she will be an honest leader of the people's cause. Just to say that he/she will have convinced the people of it.

Fwiw, I would say that Trump is now out of the running. He had his chance and he failed.

Biden is currently in the process of failing too because: go back to politicians being corrupted by money ..................................

Yes. It's the "next Trump" that worries me. Despite being such a crass, ugly person, with no real values outside self-aggrandizement, Trump could have been much worse. At the end of the day, he wasn't a tyrant. He had no grand agenda, no diabolical plan. Despite flirting with the racists, he wasn't really one himself. He had no desire to "exterminate" anyone. Next time, we might not get so lucky.

 

[Donald H]

Trump motivate angry American working class people to fight for his cause. But they had to be angered for a greater reason, which was in fact stated.

Bad government!

HC is the applicable part of bad government in this topic.

The American people are ready to rise up and demand better government; a piece of the American pie.

The politician who can insert him/herself as the leader of that cause will be your next president.

And that's not to say that he/she will be an honest leader of the people's cause. Just to say that he/she will have convinced the people of it.

Fwiw, I would say that Trump is now out of the running. He had his chance and he failed.

Biden is currently in the process of failing too because: go back to politicians being corrupted by money ..................................

Yes. It's the "next Trump" that worries me. Despite being such a crass, ugly person, with no real values outside self-aggrandizement, Trump could have been much worse. At the end of the day, he wasn't a tyrant. He had no grand agenda, no diabolical plan. Despite flirting with the racists, he wasn't really one himself. He had no desire to "exterminate" anyone. Next time, we might not get so lucky.

Your domestic politics is of no interest to me.
You give little indication of understanding what I've told you.
Certainly not enough for me to continue.

 

[dblack]

Trump motivate angry American working class people to fight for his cause. But they had to be angered for a greater reason, which was in fact stated.

Bad government!

HC is the applicable part of bad government in this topic.

The American people are ready to rise up and demand better government; a piece of the American pie.

The politician who can insert him/herself as the leader of that cause will be your next president.

And that's not to say that he/she will be an honest leader of the people's cause. Just to say that he/she will have convinced the people of it.

Fwiw, I would say that Trump is now out of the running. He had his chance and he failed.

Biden is currently in the process of failing too because: go back to politicians being corrupted by money ..................................

Yes. It's the "next Trump" that worries me. Despite being such a crass, ugly person, with no real values outside self-aggrandizement, Trump could have been much worse. At the end of the day, he wasn't a tyrant. He had no grand agenda, no diabolical plan. Despite flirting with the racists, he wasn't really one himself. He had no desire to "exterminate" anyone. Next time, we might not get so lucky.

Your domestic politics is of no interest to me.
You give little indication of understanding what I've told you.
Certainly not enough for me to continue.

Well then. I guess I've been told.

 

[Flopper]

America's health care system?

What a pathetic and cruel hoax the system is playing on the American people!

And best of all, some thoroughly indoctrinated lameasses are defending it still!

I'm not defending it. I just want to make things better, rather than worse. Unfortunately, most reform proposals are simply doubling down on the same bad ideas that drove us into this corner in the first place.

Big business stands in the way of the only obvious answer.

The "only obvious answer" is the problem. Sometimes, "obvious" is just plain wrong.

But that's not to say that America's government can do it. It's too corrupt, for the above mentioned reasons, to fix it.

Yep. We won't get socialism. Our country isn't designed for socialism. If we try, we'll just get corporatism, socialism's kissin' cousin.

I see no way forward other than the people rising up and demanding reform on HC and many other issues.

What sort of reform did you have in mind? Anything besides putting politicians in charge?

The Trumpers protesting on Jan.6 were an indication of the people beginning to make something happen, even though the movement was hijacked by Trump for his personal gain.

The Trumpers protesting on Jan. 6th were an indication of just how fucking stupid and destructive people can be, especially when led by an amoral populist.

You speak of socialism as if it either existed in a nation or didn't. The fact is socialism and capitalism exist in every nation on earth with only a few exceptions. These ideologies are idealist goals which are not sustainable over the long term. Achieving the right balance between the two, which is not the same for all nations should be our goal.

I believe a more socialist system is inevitable because the productivity of the American worker has been increasing for a century and has doubled in the last 20 years and there is no end in sight. As the productive of workers keeps rise, two things occur. The need for menial workers keeps falls as the demand for better trained and educated workers keeps rising. And the trend of earlier retirement continues. All of this creates more demand for social services. Someday we will reach a point where machines are doing almost all of our work and people will need resources to survive and prosper which will have to come from the government.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Mandate is gone. I don't care what they do.