Stop trying to divide "Jews" from "Zionists."

[HistoryBefore67]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

 

[Roudy]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

Source: Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

Source: Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.

Exactly.

Unfortunately, there are many who feel that hate speech toward "Zionists" is somehow safe ground.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

What about the Jews who believe (and say) that it was a mistake to establish Israel in 1948, but we have to accept its existence now?

 

[HistoryBefore67]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

What about the Jews who believe (and say) that it was a mistake to establish Israel in 1948, but we have to accept its existence now?

That seems to me to be an unnecessary splitting of hairs, but if that is how you feel, I'd still say you are a Zionist to whom those who throw out hateful terms such as "racist," "ethnic cleansing," "Apartheid," and the like are speaking.

 

[Roudy]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

What about the Jews who believe (and say) that it was a mistake to establish Israel in 1948, but we have to accept its existence now?

You mean those 20 Naturea Karta nutjobs who think Israel should be destroyed and are regular guests at Iran's Holocaust denial conventions? They aren't even considered Jews nor do they represent the opinions of about 15 million Jews worldwide. I can tell you in my entire life, I have yet to meet a single Jew that believed "establishing Israel was a mistake", even the most liberal crazy Jews don't believe that. Some of them are actually even more Zionists than right wingers. They are just delusional in their approach to the Palestinian / Israeli conflict.

 

[sealadaigh]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

Source: Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.

i ask myself...

were the reverend doctor martin luther king alive today, would he be aligned in thought with ariel sharon, bibi netanyahu, rabbi ovadiah yosef or with people like jimmy carter, nelson mandela, alice walker desmond tutu, mairead corrigan.

i lot of people who supported israel in the 60s and 70s because it was sold well...but people began to stop watching "exodus" and realised that something was wrong.

hell, even the irish supported israel, myself included, due to those doughty little jews overthrowing a the great colonial power, england, but we woke up and realised that substituting one oppressive colonial power for another was not our way of doing things.

you are aware (apparently seymor martin lipset apparently isn't) that many black americans resent the jews for attempting to co-opt their struggle.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

What about the Jews who believe (and say) that it was a mistake to establish Israel in 1948, but we have to accept its existence now?

You mean those 20 Naturea Karta nutjobs who think Israel should be destroyed and are regular guests at Iran's Holocaust denial conventions? They aren't even considered Jews nor do they represent the opinions of about 15 million Jews worldwide. I can tell you in my entire life, I have yet to meet a single Jew that believed "establishing Israel was a mistake", even the most liberal crazy Jews don't believe that. Some of them are actually even more Zionists than right wingers. They are just delusional in their approach to the Palestinian / Israeli conflict.

Now you've just met one. I also have several friends and family members who believe the same thing, and I wouldn't call any one of us "zionists."

 

[Roudy]

I've often read statements such as:

"I have nothing against Jews - I'm only against Zionists."

or

"A lot of Jews are not Zionists."

Let's break this down, shall we?

The term Zionist, at its most basic level, simply means a person who believes in the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel.

Based upon that definition, the following statements are true:

1. Not all Zionists are Jews. There are many Christians, and even some Muslims, who are Zionists.

2. Not all Jews are Zionists, but most are. There are some Jews who don't believe that there should be a Jewish State of Israel. Generally, they fall into one of two categories. One generally consists of ultra-left wing commentators who have essentially abandoned their Jewish heritage (your Richard Falk/Noam Chomski types). The other is a small segment ultra-Orthodox Jews who believe that a Jewish State can only be established after the return of the Messiah. These categories represent a VERY SMALL percentage of Jews. So, contrary to assertions of many - MOST JEWS ARE ZIONISTS.

In recent years, there has been a tactic of trying to characterize Jews who criticize Israel's policies or actions as "non-Zionists." This is false. Many Jews are critical of Israel but nonetheless believe that it should exist as a Jewish State.

So, those who are trying to "divide and conquer" by separting Jews (good) from Zionists (bad), are kidding themselves.

If you call yourself an "anti-Zionist," you are essentially saying that you are against the VAST MAJORITY of Jews.

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

Source: Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.

i ask myself...

were the reverend doctor martin luther king alive today, would he be aligned in thought with ariel sharon, bibi netanyahu, rabbi ovadiah yosef or with people like jimmy carter, nelson mandela, alice walker desmond tutu, mairead corrigan.

i lot of people who supported israel in the 60s and 70s because it was sold well...but people began to stop watching "exodus" and realised that something was wrong.

hell, even the irish supported israel, myself included, due to those doughty little jews overthrowing a the great colonial power, england, but we woke up and realised that substituting one oppressive colonial power for another was not our way of doing things.

you are aware (apparently seymor martin lipset apparently isn't) that many black americans resent the jews for attempting to co-opt their struggle.

Keep asking yourself.

American Jews were some of Dr. Kings biggest supporters, and best friends, and in the forefront of the civil rights movement. Dr. King made those comments AFTER the 1967 Six Day War when Israel responded to Arab aggression and was victorious, managing to capture the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem. Dr. King was able to see that the core reason of Arab aggression towards Israel was greed, intolerance and of course anti Semetism, and then made those comments.

Dr. King never said or did anything because "it was cool". I think THAT would be a concept that many black Americans would resent if not insulted, depicting Dr. King in this demeaning manner as a shallow person who followed "pop culture".

You can twist and turn it however you want, Dr. King's opinions regarding Israel would not be any different today than it was back then, as he was a true friend of Israel. He said what he said, now live with it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvr2Cxuh2Wk]Martin Luther King Jr: "Israel... is one of the great outpost of democracy in the world" - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Roudy]

What about the Jews who believe (and say) that it was a mistake to establish Israel in 1948, but we have to accept its existence now?

You mean those 20 Naturea Karta nutjobs who think Israel should be destroyed and are regular guests at Iran's Holocaust denial conventions? They aren't even considered Jews nor do they represent the opinions of about 15 million Jews worldwide. I can tell you in my entire life, I have yet to meet a single Jew that believed "establishing Israel was a mistake", even the most liberal crazy Jews don't believe that. Some of them are actually even more Zionists than right wingers. They are just delusional in their approach to the Palestinian / Israeli conflict.

Now you've just met one. I also have several friends and family members who believe the same thing, and I wouldn't call any one of us "zionists."

Oh sure. Any true Jew would not call themselves an "anti Zionist." That is ridiculous. Zionism is embedded as part of the Jewish faith. When a Jew marries part of the oath he swears is to never forget Jerusalem (Zion), when he/she prays it is towards Jerusalem, when he/she is buried it is towards Jerusalem, when the Messiah comes it will be in Zion, etc. And so on.

And I'm Superman. It's easy to be whoever you want to be on internet. LOL

 

[sealadaigh]

When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”

Source: Seymour Martin Lipset, “The Socialism of Fools—The Left, the Jews and Israel,” Encounter, (December 1969), p. 24.

i ask myself...

were the reverend doctor martin luther king alive today, would he be aligned in thought with ariel sharon, bibi netanyahu, rabbi ovadiah yosef or with people like jimmy carter, nelson mandela, alice walker desmond tutu, mairead corrigan.

i lot of people who supported israel in the 60s and 70s because it was sold well...but people began to stop watching "exodus" and realised that something was wrong.

hell, even the irish supported israel, myself included, due to those doughty little jews overthrowing a the great colonial power, england, but we woke up and realised that substituting one oppressive colonial power for another was not our way of doing things.

you are aware (apparently seymor martin lipset apparently isn't) that many black americans resent the jews for attempting to co-opt their struggle.

Keep asking yourself.

American Jews were some of Dr. Kings biggest supporters, and best friends, and in the forefront of the civil rights movement. Dr. King made those comments AFTER the 1967 Six Day War when Israel responded to Arab aggression and was victorious, managing to capture the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem. Dr. King was able to see that the core reason of Arab aggression towards Israel was greed, intolerance and of course anti Semetism, and then made those comments.

Dr. King never said or did anything because "it was cool". I think THAT would be a concept that many black Americans would resent if not insulted, depicting Dr. King in this demeaning manner as a shallow person who followed "pop culture".

You can twist and turn it however you want, Dr. King's opinions regarding Israel would not be any different today than it was back then, as he was a true friend of Israel. He said what he said, now live with it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvr2Cxuh2Wk]Martin Luther King Jr: "Israel... is one of the great outpost of democracy in the world" - YouTube[/ame]

all i see is a dishonest jew tarnishing the memory of a great man by suggessting that his support of something in 1968 equates to something he would believe today in an entirely different situation.

i never even suggested he would say something because it was cool.,

 

[Lipush]

What about the Jews who believe (and say) that it was a mistake to establish Israel in 1948, but we have to accept its existence now?

You mean those 20 Naturea Karta nutjobs who think Israel should be destroyed and are regular guests at Iran's Holocaust denial conventions? They aren't even considered Jews nor do they represent the opinions of about 15 million Jews worldwide. I can tell you in my entire life, I have yet to meet a single Jew that believed "establishing Israel was a mistake", even the most liberal crazy Jews don't believe that. Some of them are actually even more Zionists than right wingers. They are just delusional in their approach to the Palestinian / Israeli conflict.

Now you've just met one. I also have several friends and family members who believe the same thing, and I wouldn't call any one of us "zionists."

One day you'll need Israel and then you'll get your mistake.

 

[Roudy]

i ask myself...

were the reverend doctor martin luther king alive today, would he be aligned in thought with ariel sharon, bibi netanyahu, rabbi ovadiah yosef or with people like jimmy carter, nelson mandela, alice walker desmond tutu, mairead corrigan.

i lot of people who supported israel in the 60s and 70s because it was sold well...but people began to stop watching "exodus" and realised that something was wrong.

hell, even the irish supported israel, myself included, due to those doughty little jews overthrowing a the great colonial power, england, but we woke up and realised that substituting one oppressive colonial power for another was not our way of doing things.

you are aware (apparently seymor martin lipset apparently isn't) that many black americans resent the jews for attempting to co-opt their struggle.

Keep asking yourself.

American Jews were some of Dr. Kings biggest supporters, and best friends, and in the forefront of the civil rights movement. Dr. King made those comments AFTER the 1967 Six Day War when Israel responded to Arab aggression and was victorious, managing to capture the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem. Dr. King was able to see that the core reason of Arab aggression towards Israel was greed, intolerance and of course anti Semetism, and then made those comments.

Dr. King never said or did anything because "it was cool". I think THAT would be a concept that many black Americans would resent if not insulted, depicting Dr. King in this demeaning manner as a shallow person who followed "pop culture".

You can twist and turn it however you want, Dr. King's opinions regarding Israel would not be any different today than it was back then, as he was a true friend of Israel. He said what he said, now live with it.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvr2Cxuh2Wk]Martin Luther King Jr: "Israel... is one of the great outpost of democracy in the world" - YouTube[/ame]

all i see is a dishonest jew tarnishing the memory of a great man by suggessting that his support of something in 1968 equates to something he would believe today in an entirely different situation.

i never even suggested he would say something because it was cool.,

And all I see is a Jew hater trying to tarnish the memory of a great man. You may have not directly said it but you alluded to it, as though it was the thing "to do". Here's what you said:

i lot of people who supported israel in the 60s and 70s because it was sold well...but people began to stop watching "exodus" and realised that something was wrong.

So let me get this right, you think that Dr. King was a shallow person like you, who would have stopped supporting Israel, after "Exodus" stopped showing? Ha ha ha. Funny stuff.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdYRrWAB9E]Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. - A Supporter of Israel - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MHunterB]

WP - so, where do you davven? Askenazi, Sephardi, Mizrachi -???

 

[sealadaigh]

Keep asking yourself.

American Jews were some of Dr. Kings biggest supporters, and best friends, and in the forefront of the civil rights movement. Dr. King made those comments AFTER the 1967 Six Day War when Israel responded to Arab aggression and was victorious, managing to capture the West Bank, Gaza, and Jerusalem. Dr. King was able to see that the core reason of Arab aggression towards Israel was greed, intolerance and of course anti Semetism, and then made those comments.

Dr. King never said or did anything because "it was cool". I think THAT would be a concept that many black Americans would resent if not insulted, depicting Dr. King in this demeaning manner as a shallow person who followed "pop culture".

You can twist and turn it however you want, Dr. King's opinions regarding Israel would not be any different today than it was back then, as he was a true friend of Israel. He said what he said, now live with it.

Martin Luther King Jr: "Israel... is one of the great outpost of democracy in the world" - YouTube

all i see is a dishonest jew tarnishing the memory of a great man by suggessting that his support of something in 1968 equates to something he would believe today in an entirely different situation.

i never even suggested he would say something because it was cool.,

And all I see is a Jew hater trying to tarnish the memory of a great man. You may have not directly said it but you alluded to it, as though it was the thing "to do". Here's what you said:

i lot of people who supported israel in the 60s and 70s because it was sold well...but people began to stop watching "exodus" and realised that something was wrong.

So let me get this right, you think that Dr. King was a shallow person like you, who would have stopped supporting Israel, after "Exodus" stopped showing? Ha ha ha. Funny stuff.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdYRrWAB9E]Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. - A Supporter of Israel - YouTube[/ame]

if you want to know what i am saying, ask me...instead of trying to put words in my mouth.

what i am saying is that it is dishonest of you and lipset to tarnish the memory of everything this man stood for to suggest that the attitudes he expressed in 1968 towards israel would be the same he would express today.

the exodus comment was uncaalled for. it was basically a very brief and succinct summation of the emotions of the '60s and '70s and the complicated and tumultuous time. when did you come to america anyway?

 

[Roudy]

all i see is a dishonest jew tarnishing the memory of a great man by suggessting that his support of something in 1968 equates to something he would believe today in an entirely different situation.

i never even suggested he would say something because it was cool.,

And all I see is a Jew hater trying to tarnish the memory of a great man. You may have not directly said it but you alluded to it, as though it was the thing "to do". Here's what you said:

i lot of people who supported israel in the 60s and 70s because it was sold well...but people began to stop watching "exodus" and realised that something was wrong.

So let me get this right, you think that Dr. King was a shallow person like you, who would have stopped supporting Israel, after "Exodus" stopped showing? Ha ha ha. Funny stuff.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdYRrWAB9E]Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. - A Supporter of Israel - YouTube[/ame]

if you want to know what i am saying, ask me...instead of trying to put words in my mouth.

what i am saying is that it is dishonest of you and lipset to tarnish the memory of everything this man stood for to suggest that the attitudes he expressed in 1968 towards israel would be the same he would express today.

the exodus comment was uncaalled for. it was basically a very brief and succinct summation of the emotions of the '60s and '70s and the complicated and tumultuous time. when did you come to america anyway?

Maybe you should stop putting words in Dr. Kings mouth and tarnish HIS memory. He said Israel is a democracy, and that anti Zionism is anti Semetism. It would be logical for him to continue this belief than to align himself with intolerant terrorist violent Islamists. That shoe just won't fit.

 

[Wonky Pundit]

You mean those 20 Naturea Karta nutjobs who think Israel should be destroyed and are regular guests at Iran's Holocaust denial conventions? They aren't even considered Jews nor do they represent the opinions of about 15 million Jews worldwide. I can tell you in my entire life, I have yet to meet a single Jew that believed "establishing Israel was a mistake", even the most liberal crazy Jews don't believe that. Some of them are actually even more Zionists than right wingers. They are just delusional in their approach to the Palestinian / Israeli conflict.

Now you've just met one. I also have several friends and family members who believe the same thing, and I wouldn't call any one of us "zionists."

Oh sure. Any true Jew would not call themselves an "anti Zionist." That is ridiculous. Zionism is embedded as part of the Jewish faith. When a Jew marries part of the oath he swears is to never forget Jerusalem (Zion), when he/she prays it is towards Jerusalem, when he/she is buried it is towards Jerusalem, when the Messiah comes it will be in Zion, etc. And so on.

And I'm Superman. It's easy to be whoever you want to be on internet. LOL

Why the hell would I bother to lie about something like that?

Apart from which, I don't call myself either an anti-zionist or a zionist. I'm Jewish by ancestry only, and I no longer practice Judaism. (I've got nothing against it, but the rituals just don't mean much to me personally.) If you want to think that means I'm not a "true Jew," whatever that is, that's your business. I'm not ashamed of my background or my choices.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

"Judaism" is a religion, and a culture.

"Zionism" is a political opinion.

They are separate. Trying to combine the two makes your argument a logical fallacy.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

Now you've just met one. I also have several friends and family members who believe the same thing, and I wouldn't call any one of us "zionists."

Oh sure. Any true Jew would not call themselves an "anti Zionist." That is ridiculous. Zionism is embedded as part of the Jewish faith. When a Jew marries part of the oath he swears is to never forget Jerusalem (Zion), when he/she prays it is towards Jerusalem, when he/she is buried it is towards Jerusalem, when the Messiah comes it will be in Zion, etc. And so on.

And I'm Superman. It's easy to be whoever you want to be on internet. LOL

Why the hell would I bother to lie about something like that?

Apart from which, I don't call myself either an anti-zionist or a zionist. I'm Jewish by ancestry only, and I no longer practice Judaism. (I've got nothing against it, but the rituals just don't mean much to me personally.) If you want to think that means I'm not a "true Jew," whatever that is, that's your business. I'm not ashamed of my background or my choices.

Everyone has the right to make those sorts of choices for themselves... until someone takes that right away.

Its less than 75 years since people took away from Jews like you the choice NOT to be a Jew.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

"Judaism" is a religion, and a culture.

"Zionism" is a political opinion.

They are separate. Trying to combine the two makes your argument a logical fallacy.

More than 90% of those who are Jewish by religion or culture believe that Israel should exist as a Jewish State. Therefore, the vast majority of Jews are Zionists.

Trying to separate the two is an empirical fallacy.