frazzledgear
Senior Member
- Mar 17, 2008
- 1,479
- 544
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If passed as is in both houses of Congress, the Senate "stimulus bill" will affect every single person in the country because of the hidden provisions buried deep in the bill. This bill really isn't about stimulating the economy because scores of economists have repeatedly said this bill will not do that because government cannot spend the country out of a recession. Never has, never will. It was about something else all along. I'm sure Obama was hoping to get it passed before anyone read that far into the bill -and see it imposed on all Americans without their approval or even their knowledge. Until too late.
Among several major changes, it would require that healthcare be rationed for seniors. In other words -it would require that doctors base their decision to treat someone - on their age. And stop basing that decision on their ability to cure the condition or improve an individual's quality of life. Defenders of this insist that people benefit when they are younger but the elderly must sacrifice. Oh gee, is that a new "American" value Jefferson was just too stupid to realize when he wrote "all men are created equal"? Or the imposition of a communist one in a system that operates on the basis that SOME lives are actually "more equal" than others? The bill affects every part of healthcare -from the education and training of doctors and nurses to how much hospitals get paid -to requiring doctors to follow what the federal government has deemed to be "proper treatment" of the medical condition and thereby require that doctors substitute the government's judgment for their own -from who should no longer expect their doctor to treat their illness at all. Even when doing so would provide a cure or improve their quality of life.
I hope no liberal questions why I think liberalism is a mental illness -because everyone else can instantly see the contradictory positions liberals hold at the very same time -but just seem to skip right over the head of a liberal. Liberals insist that a law preventing someone from killing their unwanted child represents government being "in their bedroom" -as if its about government regulating a person's private sex life somehow (when in fact the sex is already over) and isn't about another human life. But at the same time insist that government should be in EVERY room of EVERYONE'S house instead? By turning over ALL healthcare decisions to a faceless, impersonal government bureaucracy instead of making these decisions yourself with the advice of your doctor? Are they pretending, lying, deluding themselves - or do liberals really believe THAT isn't a far greater government intrusion of a MASSIVE, unprecedented scale than a single law that merely bans killing someone's unwanted child? ROFL Are you kidding me?
Hiding and burying these kinds of major changes and resulting upheaval in our healthcare system in a "stimulus bill" was INTENTIONAL. Tom Daschle, who had to step aside from becoming our next Secretary of Health and Human Services after his tax evasion was discovered - wrote just last year that the next President "should act quickly before critics mount an opposition" and that "if it means attaching a healthcare plan to the federal budget, so be it." This is EXACTLY the kind of stunt Daschle was referring to -and Obama took his advice. Democrats HATE our democratic republic because it means Americans have the ability to reject THEIR agenda and THEIR "greater wisdom" about what they insist everyone really "needs". So they think themselves quite justified in trying to bypass the ability of Americans to even participate or have their voices heard whenever possible. Even when it means trying to DUPE all Americans in this way. One more "value" Democrats have that I don't share.
The healthcare industry is the largest employer in the nation, represents 17% of the country's GDP. But Democrats act as if it is a cost problem -instead of a growth industry. Insist it is impossible to provide assistance to the small minority who have trouble getting healthcare insurance at any given time (which are NOT the same people at any given time, but a temporary condition rarely lasting longer than a few months for all but a tiny percent) -unless government limits the growth and innovation of this industry and interferes with EVERYONE'S healthcare, becomes the only insurer which means government gets to set all the rules - and usurps the right of individuals to even make their healthcare decisions at all and claim it as government's "right" instead. Anyone think it would be a good idea if government limited the growth and innovation of other industries too -say in microprocessing, electronics or alternative fuels? But a terrific idea if we do it here, right? Federal government CANNOT provide healthcare in a better and more cost effective manner than the private sector -because federal government is not set up and cannot EVER be set up to keep the bottom line as a priority and still do its PROPER job. Taking over a private industry is NOT the proper function of government.
The only thing we will get in exchange for government taking over the healthcare industry -is worse, even shoddy service that costs a hell of a lot more. Only have to look at countries with universal healthcare to know that -not one nation has gotten an improved healthcare system or a healthier society. Just the opposite. Like Britain has done to their own citizens. Their mortality rates for all sorts of diseases that are very low here and were once lower there -are sharply rising. For things like stroke, breast cancer, respiratory illnesses. And in exchange, it costs Brits three times for their healthcare what it used to while increasing their wait for a doctor's appointment from an average of 6 weeks to anywhere between 18 and 24 months. Which only means that a medical condition that was easily treated if caught early -won't even be seen by a doctor until a person is in much more serious condition -even terminal by that time. What a bargain they got, huh?
Anyone who thinks Americans have the RIGHT to an open and public debate in Congress for ANY measure intended to make major changes in our healthcare system -so they may be as fully informed as possible about what specific changes are being considered, in addition to allowing them the time to express their own opinion to their elected representative -should contact their Senator and Representative right now about NOT allowing this bill to stand with these deliberately hidden inclusions that Obama was hoping to sneak by all Americans.
You liberals go ahead and tell us all again how liberals are the ones actually carrying forward the values and ideals of founders like Jefferson again, ok? You deluded whackos. NO founder would have said trying to SNEAK such massive measures past the American people without any debate, without their knowledge, much less without their input and consent through their own elected representative -was EVER a good thing, much less the proper job of any elected representative. That sort of stunt is a liberal value only -but not one ever held by our founders.
Remember the founders were the same people who thought the fact England was imposing taxes on Americans without their input and consent -was worth violent revolution.
Among several major changes, it would require that healthcare be rationed for seniors. In other words -it would require that doctors base their decision to treat someone - on their age. And stop basing that decision on their ability to cure the condition or improve an individual's quality of life. Defenders of this insist that people benefit when they are younger but the elderly must sacrifice. Oh gee, is that a new "American" value Jefferson was just too stupid to realize when he wrote "all men are created equal"? Or the imposition of a communist one in a system that operates on the basis that SOME lives are actually "more equal" than others? The bill affects every part of healthcare -from the education and training of doctors and nurses to how much hospitals get paid -to requiring doctors to follow what the federal government has deemed to be "proper treatment" of the medical condition and thereby require that doctors substitute the government's judgment for their own -from who should no longer expect their doctor to treat their illness at all. Even when doing so would provide a cure or improve their quality of life.
I hope no liberal questions why I think liberalism is a mental illness -because everyone else can instantly see the contradictory positions liberals hold at the very same time -but just seem to skip right over the head of a liberal. Liberals insist that a law preventing someone from killing their unwanted child represents government being "in their bedroom" -as if its about government regulating a person's private sex life somehow (when in fact the sex is already over) and isn't about another human life. But at the same time insist that government should be in EVERY room of EVERYONE'S house instead? By turning over ALL healthcare decisions to a faceless, impersonal government bureaucracy instead of making these decisions yourself with the advice of your doctor? Are they pretending, lying, deluding themselves - or do liberals really believe THAT isn't a far greater government intrusion of a MASSIVE, unprecedented scale than a single law that merely bans killing someone's unwanted child? ROFL Are you kidding me?
Hiding and burying these kinds of major changes and resulting upheaval in our healthcare system in a "stimulus bill" was INTENTIONAL. Tom Daschle, who had to step aside from becoming our next Secretary of Health and Human Services after his tax evasion was discovered - wrote just last year that the next President "should act quickly before critics mount an opposition" and that "if it means attaching a healthcare plan to the federal budget, so be it." This is EXACTLY the kind of stunt Daschle was referring to -and Obama took his advice. Democrats HATE our democratic republic because it means Americans have the ability to reject THEIR agenda and THEIR "greater wisdom" about what they insist everyone really "needs". So they think themselves quite justified in trying to bypass the ability of Americans to even participate or have their voices heard whenever possible. Even when it means trying to DUPE all Americans in this way. One more "value" Democrats have that I don't share.
The healthcare industry is the largest employer in the nation, represents 17% of the country's GDP. But Democrats act as if it is a cost problem -instead of a growth industry. Insist it is impossible to provide assistance to the small minority who have trouble getting healthcare insurance at any given time (which are NOT the same people at any given time, but a temporary condition rarely lasting longer than a few months for all but a tiny percent) -unless government limits the growth and innovation of this industry and interferes with EVERYONE'S healthcare, becomes the only insurer which means government gets to set all the rules - and usurps the right of individuals to even make their healthcare decisions at all and claim it as government's "right" instead. Anyone think it would be a good idea if government limited the growth and innovation of other industries too -say in microprocessing, electronics or alternative fuels? But a terrific idea if we do it here, right? Federal government CANNOT provide healthcare in a better and more cost effective manner than the private sector -because federal government is not set up and cannot EVER be set up to keep the bottom line as a priority and still do its PROPER job. Taking over a private industry is NOT the proper function of government.
The only thing we will get in exchange for government taking over the healthcare industry -is worse, even shoddy service that costs a hell of a lot more. Only have to look at countries with universal healthcare to know that -not one nation has gotten an improved healthcare system or a healthier society. Just the opposite. Like Britain has done to their own citizens. Their mortality rates for all sorts of diseases that are very low here and were once lower there -are sharply rising. For things like stroke, breast cancer, respiratory illnesses. And in exchange, it costs Brits three times for their healthcare what it used to while increasing their wait for a doctor's appointment from an average of 6 weeks to anywhere between 18 and 24 months. Which only means that a medical condition that was easily treated if caught early -won't even be seen by a doctor until a person is in much more serious condition -even terminal by that time. What a bargain they got, huh?
Anyone who thinks Americans have the RIGHT to an open and public debate in Congress for ANY measure intended to make major changes in our healthcare system -so they may be as fully informed as possible about what specific changes are being considered, in addition to allowing them the time to express their own opinion to their elected representative -should contact their Senator and Representative right now about NOT allowing this bill to stand with these deliberately hidden inclusions that Obama was hoping to sneak by all Americans.
You liberals go ahead and tell us all again how liberals are the ones actually carrying forward the values and ideals of founders like Jefferson again, ok? You deluded whackos. NO founder would have said trying to SNEAK such massive measures past the American people without any debate, without their knowledge, much less without their input and consent through their own elected representative -was EVER a good thing, much less the proper job of any elected representative. That sort of stunt is a liberal value only -but not one ever held by our founders.
Remember the founders were the same people who thought the fact England was imposing taxes on Americans without their input and consent -was worth violent revolution.
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