Speculate about why DeSantis shipped migrants from Texas to Martha's Vineyard when he has so many in florida.

[USAF 2023]

About million a year will be eventfully returned to their home country. Most of these people are now seeking asylum and our laws require they have their day in court which takes a long time and if they have a lawyer a long, long time.

They are just being let through. If all they have to do is say they fear persecution anymore can do it. Please tell us why Biden is dropping of Illegals all over the Country in the dead of night, What about the Gotaways and the drugs pouring into this Country?

 

[Flopper]

I guess you're right, since I seem to be the only one interested in the fact that DeSantis flew refugees from Texas to the Sanctuary island instead of refugees from Florida. Well, one Democrat on here mentioned it, but they couldn't get their sister libs to comment on it any more than I can get my fellow non-libs to.

Leadership, yes. Governance, no.

You can't really do any meaningful governance as a state leader when the opposing party president and congress are making a mockery of the whole idea of our American republic and the media is cheering them on for it. All you can do in a situation like that is publicity stunts that forces the media to cover what is really going on.

That's what leadership looks like until Trump-DeSantis defeats whatever two sacrificial lambs run against them in 2024. Then we can have leadership and governance.

What Democrats do you think could beat that ticket?

I would guess DeSantis had a talk with About about this.

 

[Flopper]

They are just being let through. If all they have to do is say they fear persecution anymore can do it. Please tell us why Biden is dropping of Illegals all over the Country in the dead of night, What about the Gotaways and the drugs pouring into this Country?

It is more than that. Yes, they have to say they fear persecution from their government. However, they will eventually have to convince a judge that the persecution actually exist. Prior to their day in court they write a complete explanation in English as to why they are seeking asylum then answer questions in court. The government does not provide any translation services. That is the responsibility of the asylum seeker. Since most of these people can barely speech English, they will certainly lose unless they can afford an immigration lawyer/translator. It's another example of American justice in action, if you don't have the money to hire the services you need, the chances are very good you will lose. As a consolation prize, they get a free ride home compliments of Uncle Sam.

 

[USAF 2023]

It is more than that. Yes, they have to say they fear persecution from their government. However, they will eventually have to convince a judge that the persecution actually exist. Prior to their day in court they write a complete explanation in English as to why they are seeking asylum then answer questions in court. The government does not provide any translation services. That is the responsibility of the asylum seeker. Since most of these people can barely speech English, they will certainly lose unless they can afford an immigration lawyer/translator. It's another example of American justice in action, if you don't have the money to hire the services you need, the chances are very good you will lose. As a consolation prize, they get a free ride home compliments of Uncle Sam.

Quote from Joe Biden;
I would, in fact make sure that there is a immediate surge to the border.
The truth is, we are being overwhelmed by hundreds a day and that doesn’t include the Gotaways with the Fentanyl crisis to boot

 

[USAF 2023]

The people of Martha’s Vineyard were not appalled at the migrants

They were appalled at how DeSantis treated them

Is THAT the reason they got rid of them ASAP? Didn’t think you were THAT Stupid; I was wrong.

 

[Leo123]

I have no way of knowing why DeSantis did that. Of course the Democrats on here will jump on that issue. Give us your best guess or Theory of why he did that.

Humorous answers encouraged.

To stick it to the Democrats and Obama and to prove 'sanctuary cities' are a Democrat lie.

 

[Flopper]

Quote from Joe Biden;
I would, in fact make sure that there is a immediate surge to the border.
The truth is, we are being overwhelmed by hundreds a day and that doesn’t include the Gotaways with the Fentanyl crisis to boot

That is from 3rd Democrat debate and it is taken out of context. Biden was referring only to those seeking asylum. He said, "All those people who are seeking asylum, they deserve to be heard." Without going through Congress to change laws, the Trump administration drastically reduced the processing of asylum seekers violating the due process clause of the constitution as well as immigration laws. However as we all know, Trump has no respect for our laws or the constitution. Laws have never been a problem for Trump. He just violates them and leaves it to his legal team. That may be coming to an end very soon.

Read the full transcript of ABC News' 3rd Democratic debate

Read the full transcript of the third 2020 Democratic Debate airing on Thursday night, Sept. 12, 2019, on ABC News.

abcnews.go.com

 

[USAF 2023]

That is from 3rd Democrat debate and it is taken out of context. Biden was referring only to those seeking asylum. He said, "All those people who are seeking asylum, they deserve to be heard." Without going through Congress to change laws, the Trump administration drastically reduced the processing of asylum seekers violating the due process clause of the constitution as well as immigration laws. However as we all know, Trump has no respect for our laws or the constitution. Laws have never been a problem for Trump. He just violates them and leaves it to his legal team. That may be coming to an end very soon.

Read the full transcript of ABC News' 3rd Democratic debate

Read the full transcript of the third 2020 Democratic Debate airing on Thursday night, Sept. 12, 2019, on ABC News.

abcnews.go.com

Sorry, but that was a direct Quote. We are being Bombarded by Hundreds a day . Don’t even start with the illegal Drugs. Why is he dumping them in the middle of the night? Why does he claim the border is closed? He was no respect for the Constitution

 

[Seymour Flops]

That is from 3rd Democrat debate and it is taken out of context. Biden was referring only to those seeking asylum. He said, "All those people who are seeking asylum, they deserve to be heard."

Which means all of the illegals crossing the border on foot. Why would they not say that they are "seeking asylum" as they were taught by their Coyote handlers?

You really think when the border patrol catches them they say, "I'm just hoping for a job, I'm not oppressed in my country or nuthin."

What percent do you think say that?

 

[Flopper]

Which means all of the illegals crossing the border on foot. Why would they not say that they are "seeking asylum" as they were taught by their Coyote handlers?

You really think when the border patrol catches them they say, "I'm just hoping for a job, I'm not oppressed in my country or nuthin."

What percent do you think say that?

One of major reasons people cross the border is be with family or friends, or get a job. The asylum process can take a year or longer. And that time will likely not be where you want it to be. And if you are granted asylum, you may not be able live where want to live at least not initially. So for someone who just wants to be with their girl friend or get a job it may be that appealing.

In 2021, there were 300,000 claims for asylum. This is out of about 1.2 million apprehensions. Before you can file a claim, you must have a positive fear assessment. An agent at the border will ask the person about a half dozens questions to access their fear. The questions vary depending on the claim. Usually questions are asked in English and the replies are expected to be in English or at lease enough English that the agent understands the reply. About a hundred thousand are eliminated by the fear assessment. This means about 1/3 or 1/4 of the illegals coming here are seeking asylum.

Ten years ago almost all illegal immigrants were climbing fences, crossing the Rio Grand or being brought in by a Coyote. Today about 1/3 or 1/4 of them cross the line, sit on a suitcase waiting for a border agent to pick them up so they can claim asylum.

If we change the law so that asylum can not be claimed at the border we would eliminate a lot of illegal crossings. And if we made some changes to green card allocations we could eliminate even more. The solution to the illegal immigration problem does not lie in building higher wall and hiring more agents. By just changing the laws we can eliminate a lot of the problem.

 

[Seymour Flops]

One of major reasons people cross the border is be with family or friends, or get a job. The asylum process can take a year or longer. And that time will likely not be where you want it to be. And if you are granted asylum, you may not be able live where want to live at least not initially. So for someone who just wants to be with their girl friend or get a job it may be that appealing.

Until they get caught. Sure, a lot of them would rather just get past the border guards and be on their way to la novia. Of course many more of them do exactly that than get caught.

In 2021, there were 300,000 claims for asylum. This is out of about 1.2 million apprehensions. Before you can file a claim, you must have a positive fear assessment. An agent at the border will ask the person about a half dozens questions to access their fear. The questions vary depending on the claim. Usually questions are asked in English and the replies are expected to be in English or at lease enough English that the agent understands the reply. About a hundred thousand are eliminated by the fear assessment. This means about 1/3 or 1/4 of the illegals coming here are seeking asylum.

No.

No, it doesn't mean that 1/3 or 1/4 of illegals coming here are seeking asylum. It means that 1/3 or 1/4* of those who get caught decide to say that they are seeking asylum. That's even assuming your figures are right without seeing the source.

But it makes no sense. If getting caught and claiming asylum means you have a 2/3 chance of being questioned and released, how are you worse off than if you snuck over and did not get caught at all? How are you better off to not claim asylum? Do that many of them really not know they can do that?

We know that the ones who really need asylum already asked for it in a country between theirs and the U.S.

Ten years ago almost all illegal immigrants were climbing fences, crossing the Rio Grand or being brought in by a Coyote. Today about 1/3 or 1/4 of them cross the line, sit on a suitcase waiting for a border agent to pick them up so they can claim asylum.

If we change the law so that asylum can not be claimed at the border we would eliminate a lot of illegal crossings. And if we made some changes to green card allocations we could eliminate even more. The solution to the illegal immigration problem does not lie in building higher wall and hiring more agents. By just changing the laws we can eliminate a lot of the problem.

The part in red is very true. But the part in blue is a false conclusion from the part in red. It isn't an either/or that Karine Jean-Pierre claims it is. We can secure the border and also fix our immigration laws. But for sure, no one who puts America first will be willing to negotiate those changes as millions pour over the border at the invitation of the Biden administration. Secure the border, then we can talk rationally about permanent residence for those already here and an increase in legal immigration.

Right now, we can't afford to take in any more legal immigrants, because the illegal ones are overwhelming our services.

Just out of curiosity, Flopper, are you participating in any of the threads about the DeSantis fight of fifty asylum seekers to Martha's Vineyard?

* It's not 1/3 "or" 1/4, if your figures are correct. 300,000 is exactly 1/4 of 1.2 million. Why do you say "1/3 or 1/4?" Am I missing something?

 

[Flopper]

Until they get caught. Sure, a lot of them would rather just get past the border guards and be on their way to la novia. Of course many more of them do exactly that than get caught.

No.

No, it doesn't mean that 1/3 or 1/4 of illegals coming here are seeking asylum. It means that 1/3 or 1/4* of those who get caught decide to say that they are seeking asylum. That's even assuming your figures are right without seeing the source.

But it makes no sense. If getting caught and claiming asylum means you have a 2/3 chance of being questioned and released, how are you worse off than if you snuck over and did not get caught at all? How are you better off to not claim asylum? Do that many of them really not know they can do that?

We know that the ones who really need asylum already asked for it in a country between theirs and the U.S.

The part in red is very true. But the part in blue is a false conclusion from the part in red. It isn't an either/or that Karine Jean-Pierre claims it is. We can secure the border and also fix our immigration laws. But for sure, no one who puts America first will be willing to negotiate those changes as millions pour over the border at the invitation of the Biden administration. Secure the border, then we can talk rationally about permanent residence for those already here and an increase in legal immigration.

Right now, we can't afford to take in any more legal immigrants, because the illegal ones are overwhelming our services.

Just out of curiosity, Flopper, are you participating in any of the threads about the DeSantis fight of fifty asylum seekers to Martha's Vineyard?

* It's not 1/3 "or" 1/4, if your figures are correct. 300,000 is exactly 1/4 of 1.2 million. Why do you say "1/3 or 1/4?" Am I missing something?

I said 1/3 or 1/4 because I'm not sure what the correct total is being reported.

I posted something in the Martha Vineyard thread but it didn't interest me much.

I think we can take in more immigrants. They add more to economy than they take. They use 28% less welfare and subsides than native born Americans. However, I was not suggesting we take in more immigrants but rather provide additional green cards for Central American countries. We issue 74 green cards a year for Guatemala, Honduras, and San Salvador combined who have a combined population of about 35 million. Mexico get's 14,000 and they have a population of 128 million. Instead of 74 we should be issuing about 4,000. I think if we did most illegal immigration form these countries would disappear.

At one time 85% of illegal immigrants came from Mexico. Today, it's about 45%. What changed was we increased the number of green cards. So today in Mexico the line is about a 2 year wait to get a green card. In the Central American Countries,(Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador), the wait is so long there is no line. This is why there are so many illegal immigrants from these countries and so many asylum seekers. It is almost impossible to get into the US legally to work.

I also think we should require that asylum applications be filed with the local embassy or consulate and determination for asylum made there. Their claim can be better evaluated there than here. It's stupid to require these people to travel to the US and enter the US illegally in order to request asylum. The US has to support them for up to a year while they wait for a decision. And if asylum is not granted we have to fly them home, provided we can find them.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I said 1/3 or 1/4 because I'm not sure what the correct total is being reported.

That's what happens when you post something you feel like you remember seeing somewhere, instead of linking to your facts.

I posted something in the Martha Vineyard thread but it didn't interest me much.

I'll bet.

I know I needled you, Floppe,r about your math and your sources. But you are among the more intelligent Democrats here, most of whom could not perform math over single digits and wouldn't even know what I meant by "source." I have noticed that the more intelligent Dems are avoiding that topic all together, knowing how bad it looks for their side.

I think we can take in more immigrants. They add more to economy than they take.

If that's true (and again no source), then why would any Blue Sanctuary state be offended at having them flown or bussed in?

They use 28% less welfare and subsides than native born Americans.

They should use zero welfare and subsidies. Why invite economic basket cases? And of course as so often, you cite figures about "immigrants," when the topic is illegal aliens.

However, I was not suggesting we take in more immigrants but rather provide additional green cards for Central American countries. We issue 74 green cards a year for Guatemala, Honduras, and San Salvador combined who have a combined population of about 35 million. Mexico get's 14,000 and they have a population of 128 million. Instead of 74 we should be issuing about 4,000. I think if we did most illegal immigration form these countries would disappear.

We can talk about that after we secure the border. It's a joke until we do.

At one time 85% of illegal immigrants came from Mexico. Today, it's about 45%. What changed was we increased the number of green cards. So today in Mexico the line is about a 2 year wait to get a green card. In the Central American Countries,(Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador), the wait is so long there is no line. This is why there are so many illegal immigrants from these countries and so many asylum seekers. It is almost impossible to get into the US legally to work.

Because our systems are so strained by border jumpers.

I also think we should require that asylum applications be filed with the local embassy or consulate and determination for asylum made there. Their claim can be better evaluated there than here. It's stupid to require these people to travel to the US and enter the US illegally in order to request asylum. The US has to support them for up to a year while they wait for a decision. And if asylum is not granted we have to fly them home, provided we can find them.

It is not only stupid to require people to travel to the US and enter the US illegally, it is incredibly stupid to allow them.

But your last paragraph brings up another point. In a country so oppressive that the people want to flee and it is so dangerous for them that the U.S. has a moral obligation to take them in, can people really just walk into an American embassy or consulate without being targeted by that oppressive regime?

 

[Coyote]

He’s a racist and a bigot but the Rich Liberal Left on Martha’s Vineyard aren’t? Like most Racist Bigots on the Left, it’s “ NOT IN MY BACKYARD “ thinking the “ rules” apply to everyone except them

Is that why they raised over $175,000 in a short time, provided supplies, clothing, shelter and food and medical care?

 

[USAF 2023]

Is that why they raised over $175,000 in a short time, provided supplies, clothing, shelter and food and medical care?

Still got rid of them ASAP, didn’t they? Please tell us why the “ border states “ are expected to absorb and care for all these immigrants?
MAYBE that’s what these states should do; raise money, provide supplies, clothing, shelter, medical care then SHIP THEM OFF.

 

[Flopper]

That's what happens when you post something you feel like you remember seeing somewhere, instead of linking to your facts.

I'll bet.

I know I needled you, Floppe,r about your math and your sources. But you are among the more intelligent Democrats here, most of whom could not perform math over single digits and wouldn't even know what I meant by "source." I have noticed that the more intelligent Dems are avoiding that topic all together, knowing how bad it looks for their side.

If that's true (and again no source), then why would any Blue Sanctuary state be offended at having them flown or bussed in?

They should use zero welfare and subsidies. Why invite economic basket cases? And of course as so often, you cite figures about "immigrants," when the topic is illegal aliens.

We can talk about that after we secure the border. It's a joke until we do.

Because our systems are so strained by border jumpers.

It is not only stupid to require people to travel to the US and enter the US illegally, it is incredibly stupid to allow them.

But your last paragraph brings up another point. In a country so oppressive that the people want to flee and it is so dangerous for them that the U.S. has a moral obligation to take them in, can people really just walk into an American embassy or consulate without being targeted by that oppressive regime?

The most important factor in limiting illegal immigration is reduction in the number of people coming to the boarder. In about 2002 (I’m reading from a graph) we had 1.6 million border encounters which is approximately what we have now. We were spending less than 5 billion/yr trying control illegal immigration and we had less than 5,000 customs and enforcement officers. Today we we are spending 54 billion, have 58,000 customs and enforcement officers, we have far more fences, walls, air patrols, electronic surveillance, and we have just as much illegal immigration at the border.

What I guess I’m proposing is a different approach to controlling illegal immigration because what we are doing now does not work very well. Throwing more money and people at the problem is not the answer. We need to stop the people from coming to the border.

One way is to require that application for asylum be done at embassies or consulates and yes this can be done securely. People that feel insure can travel relatively short distance to apply in neighboring countries or other parts of their own country. In the vast number of applications processed, the fear factor is local police and gangs, not the federal government.

People wanting to come to the US are willing wait a few years for a green card. That has been proven to work in Mexico but they will not wait ten or 20 years or more.

I believe by reducing the wait times for green cards and not requiring application for asylum at the border we could Significantly reduce illegal immigration.

The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer

Executive Summary Unlawful immigration and amnesty for current unlawful immigrants can pose large fiscal costs for U.S. taxpayers. Government provides four types of benefits and services that are relevant to this issue:

www.heritage.org

What’s happening at the U.S.-Mexico border in 7 charts | Pew Research Center

The U.S. Border Patrol reported more than 1.6 million encounters with migrants along the U.S.-Mexico border in the 2021 fiscal year.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Coyote]

Still got rid of them ASAP, didn’t they?

MV is a vacation island for the wealthy. What infrastructure does have to help migrants? Public transportation? Resources? Affordable housing? How about the means to get back to Texas for their court hearings? Maybe you ought as DeSantis why he got rid of them so quickly...like before they were even his state (if they even intended to go there)? That’s a fair question right?

Please tell us why the “ border states “ are expected to absorb and care for all these immigrants?

If you had read my other posts I wouldn’t need to repeat myself. I think the burden should be shared more equitably but, when it is, you guys have a meltdown and falsely accuse Biden of midnight flights secretly moving migrants

MAYBE that’s what these states should do; raise money, provide supplies, clothing, shelter, medical care then SHIP THEM OFF.

You mean as opposed to just shipping them off and dumping them?

 

[USAF 2023]

MV is a vacation island for the wealthy. What infrastructure does have to help migrants? Public transportation? Resources? Affordable housing? How about the means to get back to Texas for their court hearings? Maybe you ought as DeSantis why he got rid of them so quickly...like before they were even his state (if they even intended to go there)? That’s a fair question right?


Please tell us why Florida Taxpayers should foot the bill for Free Housing, Education, etc. etc. Biden dumped a whole lot of them in Florida in addition to several other states . That’s a fair question, right?

If you had read my other posts I wouldn’t need to repeat myself. I think the burden should be shared more equitably but, when it is, you guys have a meltdown and falsely accuse Biden of midnight flights secretly moving migrants

Maybe you should get out more. I’m from the NY area and know for fact they”re being flown in the dead of nite into Long Island and Westchestet
You mean as opposed to just shipping them off and dumping them?

Like Biden does? Shouldn’t be here in the first place. Please tell us why the Mayor of Chicago and NY are having meltdowns over what DeSantis is doing? Forgot..,, No Resources, Infrastructures, etc. Just consider the Southern Border a dumpling ground that they have to deal with. How very “ Democratic” of you

 

[USAF 2023]

Like Biden does? Shouldn’t be here in the first place. Please tell us why the Mayor of Chicago and NY are having meltdowns over what DeSantis is doing? Forgot..,, No Resources, Infrastructures, etc. Just consider the Southern Border a dumpling ground that they have to deal with. How very “ Democratic” of you

In the upper post in case you missed it, Click to expand.

 

[Coyote]

Like Biden does?

He doesn’t.

Shouldn’t be here in the first place. Please tell us why the Mayor of Chicago and NY are having meltdowns over what DeSantis is doing? Forgot..,, No Resources, Infrastructures, etc. Just consider the Southern Border a dumpling ground that they have to deal with. How very “ Democratic” of you

Maybe because they are being dumped. On the tarmac. No heads up so preparations can be made and agencies can organize resources? You, the sorts of things mature people do as opposed to political stunts using people’s lives. Tell me, are migrants subhuman in your world?