Some voters 'purged' from voter rolls

[CrimsonWhite]

The problem with bureacracy.

ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- College senior Kyla Berry was looking forward to voting in her first presidential election, even carrying her voter registration card in her wallet.

But about two weeks ago, Berry got disturbing news from local election officials.

"This office has received notification from the state of Georgia indicating that you are not a citizen of the United States and therefore, not eligible to vote," a letter from the Fulton County Department of Registration and Elections said.

But Berry is a U.S. citizen, born in Boston, Massachusetts. She has a passport and a birth certificate to prove it.

Some voters 'purged' from voter rolls - CNN.com

 

[jreeves]

The problem with bureacracy.

Unfortunately that's not the only case....
www.dcexaminer.com >> Local News
Fairfax County elections officials are rejecting about 200 overseas ballots, many of them from members of the military, saying the voters failed to observe a minor technicality in filling out their absentee forms.
The decision to invalidate the ballots has angered local and federal Republican officials, who say the county is disenfranchising a group most deserving of the right to vote. The county’s registrar argues he has no choice but to obey a law he recognizes as flawed.

“I’m not the guy disenfranchising people,” said Fairfax County Registrar Rokey Suleman. “The commonwealth of Virginia is disenfranchising people.”Under the 2002 law, overseas voters sending in their absentee applications and ballots simultaneously must have a witness sign the form. That witness is required to provide an address.

But the federal government changed the form three years later to cut out the space for the address, officials said. Many voters who got a witness to sign their ballot left off the address, for which there was no clear space. That rendered their forms officially invalid, under a strict reading of the law. The State Board of Elections last week instructed county officials to adhere to the letter of the law.
But several Virginia localities, including Alexandria and the military-heavy Hampton Roads region, said Thursday they will ignore the glitch and count the overseas ballots.

The problem is especially sensitive because the turnout of armed forces voters in Virginia could help determine whether Sen. John McCain can win a swing state that’s critical to his presidential campaign.

Suleman brought the problem last month before the Fairfax County Electoral Board, which “saw no other recourse” and told him to work with the State Board of Elections to seek a change in the law, according to the Sept. 16 meeting’s minutes.

Fairfax County Supervisor Pat Herrity, a Republican, announced the ballot problems at a news conference Thursday.

“We need to be sure that we can count the ballots of the men and women overseas defending our right to vote,” he said.

Suleman took heat earlier this month for sending his staff, at the request of defense attorneys, to the county jail to sign up nonfelon inmates to vote, which was first reported in The Examiner. It was the first such visit to the jail in at least 30 years.

“Our fighting soldiers ought to get at least the consideration that the prisoners in the jail get,” said District 11 Rep. Tom Davis, a Republican, who said the disparate treatment of overseas voters violates federal law.
Suleman was active in Ohio Democratic politics at his previous job with the Trumbull County Board of Elections, and ran for office earlier this year before taking the job at Fairfax. The office he holds in Virginia is officially nonpartisan.
The ballots in Fairfax won’t officially be rejected until the election. Suleman said he’s checking records to see if some of the about 200 voters had sent in absentee applications separately, which would allow their votes to be counted.


So according to this election official inmates deserve a right to vote but not our troops that have served this nation.

 

[DiveCon]

The problem with bureacracy.

and thus the set up for the claim of "stolen election" "disenfranchised voters"

 

[Gunny]

and thus the set up for the claim of "stolen election" "disenfranchised voters"

The precedent has been set. Voter fraud is going to be the "whine du jour" following the election no matter what.

Seems to me the thing to do if you're all that concerned about being registered properly is to check and see that you are and correct any discrepancies/clear up any misinformation.

Whining about it AFTER the election is weak.

 

[strollingbones]

if you have a registeration problem...arent you allowed to vote on a "provisional" ballot?

A provisional ballot is used to record a vote when there is some question in regards to a given voter's eligibility. A provisional ballot would be cast when:

The voter refuses to show a photo ID (in regions that require one)
The voter's name does not appear on the electoral roll for the given precinct.
The voter's registration contains inaccurate or out-dated information such as the wrong address or a misspelled name.
The voter's ballot has already been recorded
Whether a provisional ballot is counted is contingent upon the verification of that voter's eligibility.

A guarantee that a voter could cast a provisional ballot if he or she believes that they are entitled to vote was one of the guarantees of the Help America Vote Act of 2002.

Provisional ballot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Silence]

This is why voting early is important too. IF there is a problem you can find out and fix it.

I do laugh at the idea that the Republicans are whining about voter suppression when it's usually THEIR party that carries it out.

I bet the world thinks we're a bunch of fucking idiots

strolling, the problem with a provisional ballot is that it's up the board of elections as to whether or not to count them.

 

[Gunny]

if you have a registeration problem...arent you allowed to vote on a "provisional" ballot?

A provisional ballot is used to record a vote when there is some question in regards to a given voter's eligibility. A provisional ballot would be cast when:

The voter refuses to show a photo ID (in regions that require one)
The voter's name does not appear on the electoral roll for the given precinct.
The voter's registration contains inaccurate or out-dated information such as the wrong address or a misspelled name.
The voter's ballot has already been recorded
Whether a provisional ballot is counted is contingent upon the verification of that voter's eligibility.

A guarantee that a voter could cast a provisional ballot if he or she believes that they are entitled to vote was one of the guarantees of the Help America Vote Act of 2002.

Provisional ballot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is if the individual states all use provisional ballots. I'm sorry, but I have little to no sympathy for improperly registered voters. They have 4 years between Presidential elections to do it right and it isn't like it's a college-level exam. Spell your name right. Get your address right. Provide proof of residency and birth.

It's just not all that hard.

 

[strollingbones]

The precedent has been set. Voter fraud is going to be the "whine du jour" following the election no matter what.

Seems to me the thing to do if you're all that concerned about being registered properly is to check and see that you are and correct any discrepancies/clear up any misinformation.

Whining about it AFTER the election is weak.

one of the major changes i have seen in my life....if the distrust of the elections and balloting. that is one issue the next president must address...restoring voter confidence in the system. it was much better when we all casted our votes then the next day united behind the man the country elected....without all this recount bullshit.

unfortunately many people do not understand the concept of voter registration drives and what it entails. you must turn in all filled out forms regardless of the names on them...i.e. mickey mouse...but you are to separate out all the b/s forms and turn them in separately. people forget that mccain spoke before acorn and told them what a good job they were doing..i would like to see the intergity of elections restored. i would go to some form of voting that gave the voters a receipt showing who their vote dcounted for. take out all questions right up front. but they you look like you are tracking the voter...hard call to make.

 

[strollingbones]

That is if the individual states all use provisional ballots. I'm sorry, but I have little to no sympathy for improperly registered voters. They have 4 years between Presidential elections to do it right and it isn't like it's a college-level exam. Spell your name right. Get your address right. Provide proof of residency and birth.

It's just not all that hard.

i have to agree with you....i have voted in every election i could since i was 18. i never have had any problems at the polls. they have made it too easy to register imho but still people complain....

 

[Silence]

That is if the individual states all use provisional ballots. I'm sorry, but I have little to no sympathy for improperly registered voters. They have 4 years between Presidential elections to do it right and it isn't like it's a college-level exam. Spell your name right. Get your address right. Provide proof of residency and birth.

It's just not all that hard.

but you do realize that many times it's actually not the voters' error but rather an error in the data entry by the person who imput their information into the system. One wrong number can throw the entire registration off.

It's human error. and IMO it's always better to err on the side of giving people their RIGHT to vote rather than taking it away from them.

Robert F. Kennedy gave the example that if he registered to vote as Robert Francis Kennedy Jr but his drivers licenese said Robert F. Kennedy instead he'd be flagged as ineligible to vote.

Are you saying that's legitimate Gunny?

 

[Gunny]

This is why voting early is important too. IF there is a problem you can find out and fix it.

I do laugh at the idea that the Republicans are whining about voter suppression when it's usually THEIR party that carries it out.

I bet the world thinks we're a bunch of fucking idiots

strolling, the problem with a provisional ballot is that it's up the board of elections as to whether or not to count them.

BS. Republicans don't carry out voter suppression anymore than Democrats do. Gore wants to count every nick and scratch as a vote for Gore in Dade and Broward counties; yet, try to get the court to throw out all the military write-in votes from overseas in Duval County because he KNEW who they'd be for.

Or how about those dual-registered Democrat voters in both NY and Miami?

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Silence]

BS. Republicans don't carry out voter suppression anymore than Democrats do. Gore wants to count every nick and scratch as a vote for Gore in Dade and Broward counties; yet, try to get the court to throw out all the military write-in votes from overseas in Duval County because he KNEW who they'd be for.

Or how about those dual-registered Democrat voters in both NY and Miami?

Pot calling the kettle black.

Usually you present a logical and reasoned response but IF you actually believe that Dems attempt voter suppression then you're not as sensible as I thought.

If memory serves those military votes should've been thrown out because they either had NO post mark or were post marked after the appropriate date. If you think it's appropriate to count a ballot with no post mark then you should have no problem with someone voting whose name was misspelled in the system.

as for how someone can be dual registered? ever heard of MOVING? wow, what a concept eh? now, get back to me if they vote in both states...

Show me as much documentation of Democratic voter suppression or hell even voter fraud where a person voted more than once as I could show you about the GOPs organized and carried out efforts to purge voters from the registers and I'll gladly concede the point.

It's a smoke screen for ANY rightie to scream about voter fraud. The evidence is overwhelming against the GOP gunny and denying it doesn't make it less true.

 

[DiamondDave]

but you do realize that many times it's actually not the voters' error but rather an error in the data entry by the person who imput their information into the system. One wrong number can throw the entire registration off.

It's human error. and IMO it's always better to err on the side of giving people their RIGHT to vote rather than taking it away from them.

Robert F. Kennedy gave the example that if he registered to vote as Robert Francis Kennedy Jr but his drivers licenese said Robert F. Kennedy instead he'd be flagged as ineligible to vote.

Are you saying that's legitimate Gunny?

Hmmm... when I registered, when my neighbors registered, etc.. they had you double check anything... and 1 neighbor had a discrepancy because of being recently married... and they showed her and instructed her exactly what she had to show and do...

Much of the "human error" you speak of is on the part of the person registering... and the lack of follow thru or concern of the person registering, only to have them bitch later

 

[USJD]

The US system of voting is very different than most countries in the fact that fifty states run fifty separate systems. Information is cross linked with such databases as Social Security, ICE, Motor Vehicle Bureaus, and the NCIC to just name a few. Bogus registrations is a big problem and only complicated by groups like ACORN (btw, I support Obama) when they submit thousands of duplicate registrations and the name(s) of the Dallas Cowboys Offensive Line.

I have been working for the Obama Campaign in Florida the last week and will be in Denver this week to look at what names are being purged and why. Technically, a name cannot be purged if a problem is found unless an address forwarding letter is sent to the address on the registration card and then it can only purged after two voting cycles. To combat fraud what most local election officials do is flag the name and if that person attempts to vote they are usually given a Provisional Ballot and when the votes are counted the vote is not counted until any issues related to the registration are resolved.

The databases that are used to cross check are created by individuals and keying errors happen and this is where 95% of the problems happen and they can usually be resolved quickly if a "good faith" effort was made by the voter to provide accurate information and the person conducting the verification process does their job.

The problem comes in that each state usually allows individual counties to update their voting rolls so each office works slightly differently with the Secretary of State being the "clearing house" for cross checking data provided to the counties. So effectively you have thousands of individual voting registration offices that operate under two sets of rules, one federal and one state, this can make things complicated. I will also say in Florida some of the county offices seem underfunded and many others are swamped. Orlando is still experiencing a boom of new residents; some say up to 1,000 new people every week and every county service in that area is unable to keep up.

Does this sound complicated? YES. I think in the end the US should do what a lot of countries do and that is to run a national election agency with branch offices scattered throughout the US. We centralize criminal, naturalization, and Social Security records nationally and when you look at how it is determined that people can or cannot vote it falls to usually some federal record with the exception being residency. You must be a citizen that is easily verified thru a birth certificate, a naturalization record, or a social security number. You cannot vote if you are convicted of a crime and that can be quickly verified thru the NCIC (National Criminal Information Center). Therefore, the Federal Government has all records needed to verify an individual’s voting eligibility. The problem with this concept is the "states rights" concept and the basic mistrust of the Federal Government. However, I think with all the different efforts made by individual states to supposedly make sure only those eligible to vote can vote there needs to be uniform national standards.

The Obama campaign and the DNC have deployed a very dedicated army of people that have been involved in assuring that valid registrations are processed and that all registered voters vote will be counted. This army contains lawyers like me and other non lawyers all of us volunteer and pay our own expenses. All of us received training in Federal Election laws and I have been trained in Florida and Colorado laws. I will say that the Florida Secretary of State's office was cooperative with our efforts and attempted to explain everything to us and did remove names that were flagged thus allowing these people to vote in this and future election cycles.

 

[Silence]

Hmmm... when I registered, when my neighbors registered, etc.. they had you double check anything... and 1 neighbor had a discrepancy because of being recently married... and they showed her and instructed her exactly what she had to show and do...

Much of the "human error" you speak of is on the part of the person registering... and the lack of follow thru or concern of the person registering, only to have them bitch later

yes, let's just completely discount the human error of those individuals who are entering in the information off the registration card! They NEVER make mistakes

 

[DiamondDave]

yes, let's just completely discount the human error of those individuals who are entering in the information off the registration card! They NEVER make mistakes

Mistakes will ALWAYS happen... but it is also YOUR responsibility to follow thru on things for you... you do not just assume... if something means enough to you, you will check to make sure all of your ducks are in a row