Solutions to Israel/Palestine

[Artevelde]

Sayit -

While I don't agree with Tinmore that Israel is destroying itself, he is undeniably right that Israel's last two disastrous incursions into Israel have been divisive at home and ruinous internationally.

I presume you are referring to Israeli operations in Gaza and Lebanon.

I disagree with you. They were necessary and achioeved their aims.

 

[Artevelde]

Perhaps you are not seeing what I am seeing.

What is it that you are seeing that shows Israel destroying itself?

You have to look at the trends. Ten years ago or so:

Naturei Karta would hold a rally and three people would show up. Now they speak to hundreds.

There was no BDS.

There was no IAM.

There was no ISM

There were no flotillas.

There were no convoys or envoys to Gaza.

There were no rallies for Palestine.

There were no Jewish organizations against Israel.

Edward Said was the only voice for Palestine. Then came Hannan Ashrawi, Ali Abunima, Ghada Karmi, Ramzy Baroud, Noura Erakat, Mustafa barghouti, Laila El Haddad, Huwaida Arraf, Rafeef ziadah, Suheir Hammad, and more.

The world seems to be moving away from Israel and toward Palestine.

Keep dreaming your racist dream. Meanwhile reality leaves you behind on the garbagedump of history.

 

[Saigon]

Sayit -

While I don't agree with Tinmore that Israel is destroying itself, he is undeniably right that Israel's last two disastrous incursions into Israel have been divisive at home and ruinous internationally.

I presume you are referring to Israeli operations in Gaza and Lebanon.

I disagree with you. They were necessary and achioeved their aims.

Sorry, my error - I meant Israel's incursions into Lebanon, as in Operation Peace for Galilee.

Any operation which military commanders suggest might take 3 weeks and which then involve military involvement for 18 years is not a success.

 

[Sunni Man]

Sayit -

While I don't agree with Tinmore that Israel is destroying itself, he is undeniably right that Israel's last two disastrous incursions into Israel have been divisive at home and ruinous internationally.

I presume you are referring to Israeli operations in Gaza and Lebanon.

I disagree with you. They were necessary and achioeved their aims.

IDF got it's butt kicked when they entered Lebanon on the ground this last time.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Sayit -

While I don't agree with Tinmore that Israel is destroying itself, he is undeniably right that Israel's last two disastrous incursions into Israel have been divisive at home and ruinous internationally.

I presume you are referring to Israeli operations in Gaza and Lebanon.

I disagree with you. They were necessary and achioeved their aims.

Sorry, my error - I meant Israel's incursions into Lebanon, as in Operation Peace for Galilee.

Any operation which military commanders suggest might take 3 weeks and which then involve military involvement for 18 years is not a success.

Yet when Israel occupies Palestine for over 60 years, Israel claims it won.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You have it down pat and no-one can dispute your knowledge. One question tho: What is Palestines stance on same sex marriage?

About the same as Mitt Romney's?

It's up to Palestinians what policies they vote for...it's not for us to say what we like and what we don't.

Yet when the US installs an illegal government in the West Bank you think it is OK.

 

[Lipush]

Sayit -

While I don't agree with Tinmore that Israel is destroying itself, he is undeniably right that Israel's last two disastrous incursions into Israel have been divisive at home and ruinous internationally.

I presume you are referring to Israeli operations in Gaza and Lebanon.

I disagree with you. They were necessary and achioeved their aims.

In Gaza maybe. Lenanon, absolutely not.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Sayit -

While I don't agree with Tinmore that Israel is destroying itself, he is undeniably right that Israel's last two disastrous incursions into Israel have been divisive at home and ruinous internationally.

I presume you are referring to Israeli operations in Gaza and Lebanon.

I disagree with you. They were necessary and achioeved their aims.

In both attacks the vast majority of people killed were civilians. The vast majority of infrastructure destroyed was civilian. Israel violated international law on a large scale while the world watched.

People are beginning to see the true face of Israel and they don't like it.

 

[Lipush]

Sayit -

While I don't agree with Tinmore that Israel is destroying itself, he is undeniably right that Israel's last two disastrous incursions into Israel have been divisive at home and ruinous internationally.

I presume you are referring to Israeli operations in Gaza and Lebanon.

I disagree with you. They were necessary and achioeved their aims.

In both attacks the vast majority of people killed were civilians. The vast majority of infrastructure destroyed was civilian. Israel violated international law on a large scale while the world watched.

People are beginning to see the true face of Israel and they don't like it.

The attack on Gaza came as a response to Hamas committing onforgivable war crimes against unarmed population in Israel. Even the Egyptians warned Hamas before, and scoled them afterwards.

The attack in 2009 was in order to teach Hamas that attacking civilans is not something Israel will suck up for much longer.

They attacked southerners, they had it comming.

The death of women and children was wrong, but the rest, of Hamas, Jihad and other Jew-killers was more then justified.

Our blood is not cheap. They shoot rockets? let them pay the price of this stupidity.

 

[docmauser1]

In both attacks the vast majority of people killed were civilians. The vast majority of infrastructure destroyed was civilian. Israel violated international law on a large scale while the world watched. People are beginning to see the true face of Israel and they don't like it.

Please, we're beeing serious here!

 

[docmauser1]

It's up to Palestinians what policies they vote for...it's not for us to say what we like and what we don't.

Cool, so, if Israel votes for booting palistanians, it's allright.

 

[Saigon]

Sayit -

While I don't agree with Tinmore that Israel is destroying itself, he is undeniably right that Israel's last two disastrous incursions into Israel have been divisive at home and ruinous internationally.

I presume you are referring to Israeli operations in Gaza and Lebanon.

I disagree with you. They were necessary and achioeved their aims.

In Gaza maybe. Lenanon, absolutely not.

I totally agree about Lebanon....and I hope Israel has learned something about sending in land troops as a result.

Gaza I struggle to see as a success...I think action was justified, but too many innocent civilians were killed and buildings destroyed for my taste.

 

[docmauser1]

I totally agree about Lebanon....and I hope Israel has learned something about sending in land troops as a result.

Ah, that is why Nasrallah is still in hiding!

Gaza I struggle to see as a success...I think action was justified, but too many innocent civilians were killed and buildings destroyed for my taste.

They should get rid of the bomb magnets, of course. Long live octol!

 

[Lipush]

I presume you are referring to Israeli operations in Gaza and Lebanon.

I disagree with you. They were necessary and achioeved their aims.

In Gaza maybe. Lenanon, absolutely not.

I totally agree about Lebanon....and I hope Israel has learned something about sending in land troops as a result.

Gaza I struggle to see as a success...I think action was justified, but too many innocent civilians were killed and buildings destroyed for my taste.

Success in Gaza would have been under one of the two.

1. hurting Hamas in a way that will shock the terrorist organization to its core

2. Freeding Gilad Shalit from captivity without releasing any terrorists from jail.

The second was not accomplished, but the first sure did. Hamas never saw it coming, and suffered great loses.

The Cast Lead operation was much more successful because we have learned from past mistakes (2006) and knew what our main goal was and how we plan to make it happen.

After Cast Lead, we have long days of quiet (compared to previous to the operation when the south suffered rockets non stop).

It would have been alot better, though, if the IDF would have succeded doing so without harming civilians. But sadly, civilians were hurt there, as well.

 

[P F Tinmore]

In Gaza maybe. Lenanon, absolutely not.

I totally agree about Lebanon....and I hope Israel has learned something about sending in land troops as a result.

Gaza I struggle to see as a success...I think action was justified, but too many innocent civilians were killed and buildings destroyed for my taste.

Success in Gaza would have been under one of the two.

1. hurting Hamas in a way that will shock the terrorist organization to its core

2. Freeding Gilad Shalit from captivity without releasing any terrorists from jail.

The second was not accomplished, but the first sure did. Hamas never saw it coming, and suffered great loses.

The Cast Lead operation was much more successful because we have learned from past mistakes (2006) and knew what our main goal was and how we plan to make it happen.

After Cast Lead, we have long days of quiet (compared to previous to the operation when the south suffered rockets non stop).

It would have been alot better, though, if the IDF would have succeded doing so without harming civilians. But sadly, civilians were hurt there, as well.

It is true that Israel flopped consistently in freeing Shalit without paying the price.

The truce before cast lead was holding up quite well even though Israel reneged constantly. Another truce was offered to Israel days before cast lead but Israel refused it.

That said, Israel killed about 1400 Palestinians and only a few hundred were militants. Israel destroyed massive amounts of infrastructure and almost all of it was civilian.

Israel barely made a dent in the militant's capabilities. They can still fire all the rockets they want but it is not in their strategic interest to do so. Just like they stopped suicide bombing years ago because it was not in their strategic interest to do so.

Israel has never been serious about a truce. That is why you people get rockets. You should push Israel for a truce.

 

[Lipush]

I totally agree about Lebanon....and I hope Israel has learned something about sending in land troops as a result.

Gaza I struggle to see as a success...I think action was justified, but too many innocent civilians were killed and buildings destroyed for my taste.

Success in Gaza would have been under one of the two.

1. hurting Hamas in a way that will shock the terrorist organization to its core

2. Freeding Gilad Shalit from captivity without releasing any terrorists from jail.

The second was not accomplished, but the first sure did. Hamas never saw it coming, and suffered great loses.

The Cast Lead operation was much more successful because we have learned from past mistakes (2006) and knew what our main goal was and how we plan to make it happen.

After Cast Lead, we have long days of quiet (compared to previous to the operation when the south suffered rockets non stop).

It would have been alot better, though, if the IDF would have succeded doing so without harming civilians. But sadly, civilians were hurt there, as well.

It is true that Israel flopped consistently in freeing Shalit without paying the price.

The truce before cast lead was holding up quite well even though Israel reneged constantly. Another truce was offered to Israel days before cast lead but Israel refused it.

That said, Israel killed about 1400 Palestinians and only a few hundred were militants. Israel destroyed massive amounts of infrastructure and almost all of it was civilian.

Israel barely made a dent in the militant's capabilities. They can still fire all the rockets they want but it is not in their strategic interest to do so. Just like they stopped suicide bombing years ago because it was not in their strategic interest to do so.

Israel has never been serious about a truce. That is why you people get rockets. You should push Israel for a truce.

Somebody pulled a funny on you.

Palestinian claims was that in cast lead 1434 people died, most of them "civilians". however, again the truth failed to reach and Israel never pushed for it to reach out, the "source" of this claim was only Palestinian, which lied to its teeth about the numbers.

They have said that at least 900 civilians died, out of them 120 women and nearly 300 children. They have stated a "child" is anyone under 18. a 17 year old will be considered a child in that source. But there were plently 17 year old boys who were armed and by any unbiased standart, an armed 17 year old is a militiant target, no matter how you look at it.

An SERIOUS invertigation proved that in cast lead 68%-70% of the Gaza causualties were NOT civilian casualties.

Take a look

http://www.ict.org.il/Portals/0/Articles/ICT_Cast_Lead_Casualties-A_Closer_Look.pdf

 

[Lipush]

I totally agree about Lebanon....and I hope Israel has learned something about sending in land troops as a result.

Gaza I struggle to see as a success...I think action was justified, but too many innocent civilians were killed and buildings destroyed for my taste.

Success in Gaza would have been under one of the two.

1. hurting Hamas in a way that will shock the terrorist organization to its core

2. Freeding Gilad Shalit from captivity without releasing any terrorists from jail.

The second was not accomplished, but the first sure did. Hamas never saw it coming, and suffered great loses.

The Cast Lead operation was much more successful because we have learned from past mistakes (2006) and knew what our main goal was and how we plan to make it happen.

After Cast Lead, we have long days of quiet (compared to previous to the operation when the south suffered rockets non stop).

It would have been alot better, though, if the IDF would have succeded doing so without harming civilians. But sadly, civilians were hurt there, as well.

It is true that Israel flopped consistently in freeing Shalit without paying the price.

The truce before cast lead was holding up quite well even though Israel reneged constantly. Another truce was offered to Israel days before cast lead but Israel refused it.

That said, Israel killed about 1400 Palestinians and only a few hundred were militants. Israel destroyed massive amounts of infrastructure and almost all of it was civilian.

Israel barely made a dent in the militant's capabilities. They can still fire all the rockets they want but it is not in their strategic interest to do so. Just like they stopped suicide bombing years ago because it was not in their strategic interest to do so.

Israel has never been serious about a truce. That is why you people get rockets. You should push Israel for a truce.

"It's not their statistic interest to shoot rockets"

Different prespective I happen to hold here, from where I stand.

I will stick to mine, if you don't mind

 

[P F Tinmore]

Success in Gaza would have been under one of the two.

1. hurting Hamas in a way that will shock the terrorist organization to its core

2. Freeding Gilad Shalit from captivity without releasing any terrorists from jail.

The second was not accomplished, but the first sure did. Hamas never saw it coming, and suffered great loses.

The Cast Lead operation was much more successful because we have learned from past mistakes (2006) and knew what our main goal was and how we plan to make it happen.

After Cast Lead, we have long days of quiet (compared to previous to the operation when the south suffered rockets non stop).

It would have been alot better, though, if the IDF would have succeded doing so without harming civilians. But sadly, civilians were hurt there, as well.

It is true that Israel flopped consistently in freeing Shalit without paying the price.

The truce before cast lead was holding up quite well even though Israel reneged constantly. Another truce was offered to Israel days before cast lead but Israel refused it.

That said, Israel killed about 1400 Palestinians and only a few hundred were militants. Israel destroyed massive amounts of infrastructure and almost all of it was civilian.

Israel barely made a dent in the militant's capabilities. They can still fire all the rockets they want but it is not in their strategic interest to do so. Just like they stopped suicide bombing years ago because it was not in their strategic interest to do so.

Israel has never been serious about a truce. That is why you people get rockets. You should push Israel for a truce.

Somebody pulled a funny on you.

Palestinian claims was that in cast lead 1434 people died, most of them "civilians". however, again the truth failed to reach and Israel never pushed for it to reach out, the "source" of this claim was only Palestinian, which lied to its teeth about the numbers.

They have said that at least 900 civilians died, out of them 120 women and nearly 300 children. They have stated a "child" is anyone under 18. a 17 year old will be considered a child in that source. But there were plently 17 year old boys who were armed and by any unbiased standart, an armed 17 year old is a militiant target, no matter how you look at it.

An SERIOUS invertigation proved that in cast lead 68%-70% of the Gaza causualties were NOT civilian casualties.

Take a look

http://www.ict.org.il/Portals/0/Articles/ICT_Cast_Lead_Casualties-A_Closer_Look.pdf

ict.org.il

.il

Do you ever get information anywhere else?

Seriously.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Success in Gaza would have been under one of the two.

1. hurting Hamas in a way that will shock the terrorist organization to its core

2. Freeding Gilad Shalit from captivity without releasing any terrorists from jail.

The second was not accomplished, but the first sure did. Hamas never saw it coming, and suffered great loses.

The Cast Lead operation was much more successful because we have learned from past mistakes (2006) and knew what our main goal was and how we plan to make it happen.

After Cast Lead, we have long days of quiet (compared to previous to the operation when the south suffered rockets non stop).

It would have been alot better, though, if the IDF would have succeded doing so without harming civilians. But sadly, civilians were hurt there, as well.

It is true that Israel flopped consistently in freeing Shalit without paying the price.

The truce before cast lead was holding up quite well even though Israel reneged constantly. Another truce was offered to Israel days before cast lead but Israel refused it.

That said, Israel killed about 1400 Palestinians and only a few hundred were militants. Israel destroyed massive amounts of infrastructure and almost all of it was civilian.

Israel barely made a dent in the militant's capabilities. They can still fire all the rockets they want but it is not in their strategic interest to do so. Just like they stopped suicide bombing years ago because it was not in their strategic interest to do so.

Israel has never been serious about a truce. That is why you people get rockets. You should push Israel for a truce.

"It's not their statistic interest to shoot rockets"

Different prespective I happen to hold here, from where I stand.

I will stick to mine, if you don't mind

What do you know of the different Palestinian strategies?

 

[SAYIT]

It is true that Israel flopped consistently in freeing Shalit without paying the price.

The truce before cast lead was holding up quite well even though Israel reneged constantly. Another truce was offered to Israel days before cast lead but Israel refused it.

That said, Israel killed about 1400 Palestinians and only a few hundred were militants. Israel destroyed massive amounts of infrastructure and almost all of it was civilian.

Israel barely made a dent in the militant's capabilities. They can still fire all the rockets they want but it is not in their strategic interest to do so. Just like they stopped suicide bombing years ago because it was not in their strategic interest to do so.

Israel has never been serious about a truce. That is why you people get rockets. You should push Israel for a truce.

Somebody pulled a funny on you.

Palestinian claims was that in cast lead 1434 people died, most of them "civilians". however, again the truth failed to reach and Israel never pushed for it to reach out, the "source" of this claim was only Palestinian, which lied to its teeth about the numbers.

They have said that at least 900 civilians died, out of them 120 women and nearly 300 children. They have stated a "child" is anyone under 18. a 17 year old will be considered a child in that source. But there were plently 17 year old boys who were armed and by any unbiased standart, an armed 17 year old is a militiant target, no matter how you look at it.

An SERIOUS invertigation proved that in cast lead 68%-70% of the Gaza causualties were NOT civilian casualties.

Take a look

http://www.ict.org.il/Portals/0/Articles/ICT_Cast_Lead_Casualties-A_Closer_Look.pdf

ict.org.il

.il

Do you ever get information anywhere else?

Seriously.

Absolutely comical coming from one who gets all his "knowledge" from PIC, PressTV, and al Jazeera. Quite the hypocrite, eh?