Solar Power: Electric Companies want you to pay even more!

[Spoonman]

the other point you miss is the clean energy they buy back from you is a lot lower then they resell it for

You have a link for this claim?
I remember hearing that they're mandated to overpay for this "green" energy.

The current cost per kwh I pay through my power company is 10.2175 cents if i use electricity they generate. what they pay me for excess produced it 3.1255 cents per kwh. they don't pay through the nose for clean energy.

Well then -- you are paying for grid infrastructure right there aren'tcha?

There is no free lunch.. And there is no "free energy".. Unless you want to go off the grid.

no, because I produce more then I utilize. I haven't had a utility bill in 3 years. I was stating the rate the currently charge.

 

[Spoonman]

they should only bill you for your net usage if you have solar. They should not have to buy it from you. Only bill you for what you use from them.

Now, if you want to give up the solar tax credits then maybe selling it to them makes sense---ready to do that?

The solar tax credit is federal. there is a separate state one in some states. SREC's vary by state who gets them

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, the increasing number and popularity of the EV's is creating a lot of impetus for the development of cheaper and higher capacity batteries. Already have lab created batteries that have more than four times the capacity of the present lithium ion batteries. And supposedly they will be cheaper to manufacture. Will have to wait and see on that.

However, should that be the case, then going completely off the grid with solar will be feasable, and the utility people whining about the present solar installations will find themselves facing some real competition and more and more people disconnect.

 

[Redfish]

they should only bill you for your net usage if you have solar. They should not have to buy it from you. Only bill you for what you use from them.

Now, if you want to give up the solar tax credits then maybe selling it to them makes sense---ready to do that?

The solar tax credit is federal. there is a separate state one in some states. SREC's vary by state who gets them

Yes, I know that. In this state you can get a total of 80% of your solar investment back as tax credits.

My question was are you willing to forgo the tax credits in order to sell your power to the grid? can't have it both ways.

 

[Redfish]

Well, the increasing number and popularity of the EV's is creating a lot of impetus for the development of cheaper and higher capacity batteries. Already have lab created batteries that have more than four times the capacity of the present lithium ion batteries. And supposedly they will be cheaper to manufacture. Will have to wait and see on that.

However, should that be the case, then going completely off the grid with solar will be feasable, and the utility people whining about the present solar installations will find themselves facing some real competition and more and more people disconnect.

kind of hard to drive around during the day while your batteries are being recharged by your solar panels.

please let me know how the first night flight on a solar powered plane works out.

 

[ba1614]

My inlaws in Ontario Canada are paying 23.8 cents a KW/Hr because of their wind and solar programs lol ya baby that's gonna be prosperous for everyone lol.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

A guaranteed return of 10%? That's thievery, folks.

 

[editec]

they should only bill you for your net usage if you have solar. They should not have to buy it from you. Only bill you for what you use from them.

Now, if you want to give up the solar tax credits then maybe selling it to them makes sense---ready to do that?

The solar tax credit is federal. there is a separate state one in some states. SREC's vary by state who gets them

Yes, I know that. In this state you can get a total of 80% of your solar investment back as tax credits.

My question was are you willing to forgo the tax credits in order to sell your power to the grid? can't have it both ways.

Why can't you have it both ways?

What does getting tax credits (from the Federal government) have to do with getting paid (by private power companies) for electricity you produce?


The Government does not own the electric company.

Explain why you cannot have both (you can incidently here in Maine)

 

[flacaltenn]

The current cost per kwh I pay through my power company is 10.2175 cents if i use electricity they generate. what they pay me for excess produced it 3.1255 cents per kwh. they don't pay through the nose for clean energy.

Well then -- you are paying for grid infrastructure right there aren'tcha?

There is no free lunch.. And there is no "free energy".. Unless you want to go off the grid.

no, because I produce more then I utilize. I haven't had a utility bill in 3 years. I was stating the rate the currently charge.

You just said you PAY over 10.2cents at night and they only pay YOU 3.125 during the day.

How is THAT not being asked to kick in for the utilities expenses?

I'm also doubting that at that cost differential, you can generate yourself out of an electric bill EVERY month..

At that cost diff -- your daytime EXCESS would have to be 3 times what you use all night !!!! You go to bed at 8PM???

 

[Spoonman]

Well then -- you are paying for grid infrastructure right there aren'tcha?

There is no free lunch.. And there is no "free energy".. Unless you want to go off the grid.

no, because I produce more then I utilize. I haven't had a utility bill in 3 years. I was stating the rate the currently charge.

You just said you PAY over 10.2cents at night and they only pay YOU 3.125 during the day.

How is THAT not being asked to kick in for the utilities expenses?

I'm also doubting that at that cost differential, you can generate yourself out of an electric bill EVERY month..

wrong, i did not say that. I never said that is what I pay at night. go back and reread what i said. and you don't understand how a reverse meter works. what I make spins my meter in essence in reverse. if i make more during the day than i ise all day, i get billed nothing. you accumulate the excess you make until you elect to have them pay you for the excess, I also said right now I have over 15,000 kwh in my favor. So if the sun didn't shine for the next 2 years, i still wouldn't have a bill.

 

[flacaltenn]

no, because I produce more then I utilize. I haven't had a utility bill in 3 years. I was stating the rate the currently charge.

You just said you PAY over 10.2cents at night and they only pay YOU 3.125 during the day.

How is THAT not being asked to kick in for the utilities expenses?

I'm also doubting that at that cost differential, you can generate yourself out of an electric bill EVERY month..

wrong, i did not say that. I never said that is what I pay at night. go back and reread what i said. and you don't understand how a reverse meter works. what I make spins my meter in essence in reverse. if i make more during the day than i ise all day, i get billed nothing. you accumulate the excess you make until you elect to have them pay you for the excess, I also said right now I have over 15,000 kwh in my favor. So if the sun didn't shine for the next 2 years, i still wouldn't have a bill.

I understand completely how a grid-tied system works. What is the significance of the differential rates you quoted then? Are you saying that Kwhr you provide during the day are credited the SAME RATE as what you use?

I know the net spin is backwards. But the utility has a record of both what you provide in excess during the day --- AND ---- what you consume at night. Are the rates the same?

 

[Spoonman]

You just said you PAY over 10.2cents at night and they only pay YOU 3.125 during the day.

How is THAT not being asked to kick in for the utilities expenses?

I'm also doubting that at that cost differential, you can generate yourself out of an electric bill EVERY month..

wrong, i did not say that. I never said that is what I pay at night. go back and reread what i said. and you don't understand how a reverse meter works. what I make spins my meter in essence in reverse. if i make more during the day than i ise all day, i get billed nothing. you accumulate the excess you make until you elect to have them pay you for the excess, I also said right now I have over 15,000 kwh in my favor. So if the sun didn't shine for the next 2 years, i still wouldn't have a bill.

I understand completely how a grid-tied system works. What is the significance of the differential rates you quoted then? Are you saying that Kwhr you provide during the day are credited the SAME RATE as what you use?

I know the net spin is backwards. But the utility has a record of both what you provide in excess during the day --- AND ---- what you consume at night. Are the rates the same?

the significance is toddsterpatriot asked what the difference was between what the power company billed and what the power company paid when they bought your energy.

look at it this way. day 1, my meter starts out at 0. I make 50 kwh during the day. but I only consume 20. the rest goes out my meter and I have a 30 kwh credit. that night i use another 25. that leave me with a net balance of 5 kwh. I have no bill but a 5 kwh credit. they do not bill me until my meter gets back to zero and I start going into the positve. Right now, I have over 15,000 khw in my favor. i have to use all of that up befor I would get billed at their going rate. if i elect to, i can sell that 15,000 kwh back to them at their lower purchase rate. my meter then goes back to zero and the cycle starts over. or I could sell 10,000 kwh back and maintain a 5,000 kwh credit and start building over again with a safety net.

 

[flacaltenn]

wrong, i did not say that. I never said that is what I pay at night. go back and reread what i said. and you don't understand how a reverse meter works. what I make spins my meter in essence in reverse. if i make more during the day than i ise all day, i get billed nothing. you accumulate the excess you make until you elect to have them pay you for the excess, I also said right now I have over 15,000 kwh in my favor. So if the sun didn't shine for the next 2 years, i still wouldn't have a bill.

I understand completely how a grid-tied system works. What is the significance of the differential rates you quoted then? Are you saying that Kwhr you provide during the day are credited the SAME RATE as what you use?

I know the net spin is backwards. But the utility has a record of both what you provide in excess during the day --- AND ---- what you consume at night. Are the rates the same?

the significance is toddsterpatriot asked what the difference was between what the power company billed and what the power company paid when they bought your energy.

look at it this way. day 1, my meter starts out at 0. I make 50 kwh during the day. but I only consume 20. the rest goes out my meter and I have a 30 kwh credit. that night i use another 25. that leave me with a net balance of 5 kwh. I have no bill but a 5 kwh credit. they do not bill me until my meter gets back to zero and I start going into the positve. Right now, I have over 15,000 khw in my favor. i have to use all of that up befor I would get billed at their going rate. if i elect to, i can sell that 15,000 kwh back to them at their lower purchase rate. my meter then goes back to zero and the cycle starts over. or I could sell 10,000 kwh back and maintain a 5,000 kwh credit and start building over again with a safety net.

But you do understand that if that Billing Rate diff really does exist --- in the days of Smart Meter technology --- the power company COULD elect to ENFORCE that payment differential any time they wanted to.. Because modern meters are smart enough to know MORE than just the Net spin on your meter.. They KNOW when you are generating and when you are consuming..

The day could come when that rate schedule ruins your electrical generation biz...

 

[Redfish]

The solar tax credit is federal. there is a separate state one in some states. SREC's vary by state who gets them

Yes, I know that. In this state you can get a total of 80% of your solar investment back as tax credits.

My question was are you willing to forgo the tax credits in order to sell your power to the grid? can't have it both ways.

Why can't you have it both ways?

What does getting tax credits (from the Federal government) have to do with getting paid (by private power companies) for electricity you produce?


The Government does not own the electric company.

Explain why you cannot have both (you can incidently here in Maine)

Does the govt give tax credits to electric companies when the install solar panel farms? just asking

 

[Spoonman]

I understand completely how a grid-tied system works. What is the significance of the differential rates you quoted then? Are you saying that Kwhr you provide during the day are credited the SAME RATE as what you use?

I know the net spin is backwards. But the utility has a record of both what you provide in excess during the day --- AND ---- what you consume at night. Are the rates the same?

the significance is toddsterpatriot asked what the difference was between what the power company billed and what the power company paid when they bought your energy.

look at it this way. day 1, my meter starts out at 0. I make 50 kwh during the day. but I only consume 20. the rest goes out my meter and I have a 30 kwh credit. that night i use another 25. that leave me with a net balance of 5 kwh. I have no bill but a 5 kwh credit. they do not bill me until my meter gets back to zero and I start going into the positve. Right now, I have over 15,000 khw in my favor. i have to use all of that up befor I would get billed at their going rate. if i elect to, i can sell that 15,000 kwh back to them at their lower purchase rate. my meter then goes back to zero and the cycle starts over. or I could sell 10,000 kwh back and maintain a 5,000 kwh credit and start building over again with a safety net.

But you do understand that if that Billing Rate diff really does exist --- in the days of Smart Meter technology --- the power company COULD elect to ENFORCE that payment differential any time they wanted to.. Because modern meters are smart enough to know MORE than just the Net spin on your meter.. They KNOW when you are generating and when you are consuming..

The day could come when that rate schedule ruins your electrical generation biz...

yes, i have the modern meter. it shows what i produced, vs what i made. Power companies start to do that and people will drop off the grid. that is the last thing they want. then they have a lose/lose situation

 

[Redfish]

the significance is toddsterpatriot asked what the difference was between what the power company billed and what the power company paid when they bought your energy.

look at it this way. day 1, my meter starts out at 0. I make 50 kwh during the day. but I only consume 20. the rest goes out my meter and I have a 30 kwh credit. that night i use another 25. that leave me with a net balance of 5 kwh. I have no bill but a 5 kwh credit. they do not bill me until my meter gets back to zero and I start going into the positve. Right now, I have over 15,000 khw in my favor. i have to use all of that up befor I would get billed at their going rate. if i elect to, i can sell that 15,000 kwh back to them at their lower purchase rate. my meter then goes back to zero and the cycle starts over. or I could sell 10,000 kwh back and maintain a 5,000 kwh credit and start building over again with a safety net.

But you do understand that if that Billing Rate diff really does exist --- in the days of Smart Meter technology --- the power company COULD elect to ENFORCE that payment differential any time they wanted to.. Because modern meters are smart enough to know MORE than just the Net spin on your meter.. They KNOW when you are generating and when you are consuming..

The day could come when that rate schedule ruins your electrical generation biz...

yes, i have the modern meter. it shows what i produced, vs what i made. Power companies start to do that and people will drop off the grid. that is the last thing they want. then they have a lose/lose situation

If the govt is going to subsidize solar power why not do it in a big way and subsidize the power companies when they go solar? Seems like that would be more efficient than subsidizing millions of home solar units.

then the power companies could put their solar generated power into the grid and reduce their overall KWH rate.

 

[Spoonman]

But you do understand that if that Billing Rate diff really does exist --- in the days of Smart Meter technology --- the power company COULD elect to ENFORCE that payment differential any time they wanted to.. Because modern meters are smart enough to know MORE than just the Net spin on your meter.. They KNOW when you are generating and when you are consuming..

The day could come when that rate schedule ruins your electrical generation biz...

yes, i have the modern meter. it shows what i produced, vs what i made. Power companies start to do that and people will drop off the grid. that is the last thing they want. then they have a lose/lose situation

If the govt is going to subsidize solar power why not do it in a big way and subsidize the power companies when they go solar? Seems like that would be more efficient than subsidizing millions of home solar units.

then the power companies could put their solar generated power into the grid and reduce their overall KWH rate.

some power companies are going more and more solar. what people fail to realize is even if your system did not cover 100% of your demand, what ever it does produce still reduces your total bill

 

[Redfish]

yes, i have the modern meter. it shows what i produced, vs what i made. Power companies start to do that and people will drop off the grid. that is the last thing they want. then they have a lose/lose situation

If the govt is going to subsidize solar power why not do it in a big way and subsidize the power companies when they go solar? Seems like that would be more efficient than subsidizing millions of home solar units.

then the power companies could put their solar generated power into the grid and reduce their overall KWH rate.

some power companies are going more and more solar. what people fail to realize is even if your system did not cover 100% of your demand, what ever it does produce still reduces your total bill

of course it does, the question is whether the investment is worth the return. If your solar system has a 10 year life and it takes 12 for you to break even---------not a good deal. without the govt subsidies, no one would install solar panels.

 

[Spoonman]

If the govt is going to subsidize solar power why not do it in a big way and subsidize the power companies when they go solar? Seems like that would be more efficient than subsidizing millions of home solar units.

then the power companies could put their solar generated power into the grid and reduce their overall KWH rate.

some power companies are going more and more solar. what people fail to realize is even if your system did not cover 100% of your demand, what ever it does produce still reduces your total bill

of course it does, the question is whether the investment is worth the return. If your solar system has a 10 year life and it takes 12 for you to break even---------not a good deal. without the govt subsidies, no one would install solar panels.

my system paid itself off in 3 years. Subsidies, SREC credits and power generated. the system is estimated to have a 25 year life.

 

[flacaltenn]

the significance is toddsterpatriot asked what the difference was between what the power company billed and what the power company paid when they bought your energy.

look at it this way. day 1, my meter starts out at 0. I make 50 kwh during the day. but I only consume 20. the rest goes out my meter and I have a 30 kwh credit. that night i use another 25. that leave me with a net balance of 5 kwh. I have no bill but a 5 kwh credit. they do not bill me until my meter gets back to zero and I start going into the positve. Right now, I have over 15,000 khw in my favor. i have to use all of that up befor I would get billed at their going rate. if i elect to, i can sell that 15,000 kwh back to them at their lower purchase rate. my meter then goes back to zero and the cycle starts over. or I could sell 10,000 kwh back and maintain a 5,000 kwh credit and start building over again with a safety net.

But you do understand that if that Billing Rate diff really does exist --- in the days of Smart Meter technology --- the power company COULD elect to ENFORCE that payment differential any time they wanted to.. Because modern meters are smart enough to know MORE than just the Net spin on your meter.. They KNOW when you are generating and when you are consuming..

The day could come when that rate schedule ruins your electrical generation biz...

yes, i have the modern meter. it shows what i produced, vs what i made. Power companies start to do that and people will drop off the grid. that is the last thing they want. then they have a lose/lose situation

the only reason they don't do that today --- is that they are sucking up the "subsidized" rate for producing solar. THey get the subsidy -- you get the wholesale price..

It's costing them right now to carry your generation because they have to contract with a RELIABLE supplier of PRIMARY power to cover for you on rainy/cloudy/snowy days. Those primary generators STILL have to pay labor and maintenance -- even if the grid operators throttle them back..