Solar Power Destroys Miles and Miles of Desert

[elektra]

Its pretty simple, It will take a long time to cover the entire South West with Solar Panels, at least 40 years your side tells us, within the first 10 years of time will start replacing panels that are getting burnt out by the sun.

I wonder how much recycling that will take, 5 square miles at a time, of how many square miles of solar?

That would be the case if the net output of solar panels was close to zero , which is the case for biofuels made from corn.
Sinc 2010 panels generate more energy than the energy that is required to create them .
Solar panels finally produce more energy than it takes to make them study finds The Verge

Recycling is a much more important factor. As I understand it's a process still in its infancy.

It ain't a matter if a study states Solar makes the energy it needs to turn sand into solar panels or some rare earth metal, that means nothing.

If solar came just a tiny bit close to what a "study" claims, we would not have to build them forever and ever. Do you even know the types of energy required, for what duration, that Solar manufacture requires?

I bet it takes gas and temperatures of at least 1800 c.

 

[CultureCitizen]

It ain't a matter if a study states Solar makes the energy it needs to turn sand into solar panels or some rare earth metal, that means nothing.

Then your word counts more than any study ?
Or what kind of proof would you need ?
During its usefull life a solar panel will generate 16,000 kwh
The equivalent is 450 gallons of gasoline.
Do you really think a single panel requires 450 gallones of gasoline to be created ?
If so , with current oil/ energy prices, the panel would have to cost at least 600 USD.

 

[Billy_Bob]

WHAT'S AT STAKE
The Navajo Generating Station is the largest coal-fired power plant on the Colorado Plateau and one of the ten biggest polluters in the country.

It is just 12 miles from the Grand Canyon and responsible for frequently polluted air that makes vistas hazy and unhealthy at the park.

Haze obscures a view of the Grand Canyon.

I was there on one of the smoggy days at the Grand Canyon. That is an obscenity. One of the grandest and most beautiful areas on the planet, and the power companies choose to pollute it.

Coal, Old Crock, did you not shovel coke from Coal on top of that steal those Horse drawn Wagons brought to the Iron Smelter you grew up in?

Old Crock, clean you glasses, I can see 30 miles into the canyon, maybe more, at least 14 clear defined cuts in that there Colorado plateau. Great pic but it does not look like he used a polarized filter.

Old Crock doesn't know the difference between smoke and smog... IN his picture it was smoke from a fire. But they cant be held accountable for what they post, even if it is a fabrication.. they will say it is smog as the basic enviroweinne doesn't have a clue what the difference is.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Its pretty simple, It will take a long time to cover the entire South West with Solar Panels, at least 40 years your side tells us, within the first 10 years of time will start replacing panels that are getting burnt out by the sun.

I wonder how much recycling that will take, 5 square miles at a time, of how many square miles of solar?

That would be the case if the net output of solar panels was close to zero , which is the case for biofuels made from corn.
Sinc 2010 panels generate more energy than the energy that is required to create them .
Solar panels finally produce more energy than it takes to make them study finds The Verge

Recycling is a much more important factor. As I understand it's a process still in its infancy.

Bio-fuels... LOL that is what has caused major upheaval in the middle east lately.. The used all that food for fuel.. let the people starve for the green movement... Morons...

 

[elektra]

It ain't a matter if a study states Solar makes the energy it needs to turn sand into solar panels or some rare earth metal, that means nothing.

Then your word counts more than any study ?
Or what kind of proof would you need ?
During its usefull life a solar panel will generate 16,000 kwh
The equivalent is 450 gallons of gasoline.
Do you really think a single panel requires 450 gallones of gasoline to be created ?
If so , with current oil/ energy prices, the panel would have to cost at least 600 USD.

Yes, my word is better than a study.
What is the subsidized price? And a panel does cost at least 600$.

I thought you made the claim that Solar could provide the energy to make a Solar Panel, that I said is impossible and will always be impossible. You need Fossil Fuels to make any kind of Solar Panel.

Solar at best powers homes, never the Heavy Industry used to create a Solar Panel.

Somehow you think its efficient for every single house to have its own power plant?

 

[CultureCitizen]

It ain't a matter if a study states Solar makes the energy it needs to turn sand into solar panels or some rare earth metal, that means nothing.

Then your word counts more than any study ?
Or what kind of proof would you need ?
During its usefull life a solar panel will generate 16,000 kwh
The equivalent is 450 gallons of gasoline.
Do you really think a single panel requires 450 gallones of gasoline to be created ?
If so , with current oil/ energy prices, the panel would have to cost at least 600 USD.

Yes, my word is better than a study.
What is the subsidized price? And a panel does cost at least 600$.

I thought you made the claim that Solar could provide the energy to make a Solar Panel, that I said is impossible and will always be impossible. You need Fossil Fuels to make any kind of Solar Panel.

Solar at best powers homes, never the Heavy Industry used to create a Solar Panel.

Somehow you think its efficient for every single house to have its own power plant?

Jaja. Your word is better than any study ? Ok then you like to live in your own reallity.

No , a 300 watt panel costs less than $300 without subsidy
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/module-folder/Astronergy/CHSM6612P-300.html
Large Solar Panels
Yes, I think that for some sunny zones it is more efficient, because they avoid the transmission and distribution costs and losses.

 

[elektra]

It ain't a matter if a study states Solar makes the energy it needs to turn sand into solar panels or some rare earth metal, that means nothing.

Then your word counts more than any study ?
Or what kind of proof would you need ?
During its usefull life a solar panel will generate 16,000 kwh
The equivalent is 450 gallons of gasoline.
Do you really think a single panel requires 450 gallones of gasoline to be created ?
If so , with current oil/ energy prices, the panel would have to cost at least 600 USD.

Yes, my word is better than a study.
What is the subsidized price? And a panel does cost at least 600$.

I thought you made the claim that Solar could provide the energy to make a Solar Panel, that I said is impossible and will always be impossible. You need Fossil Fuels to make any kind of Solar Panel.

Solar at best powers homes, never the Heavy Industry used to create a Solar Panel.

Somehow you think its efficient for every single house to have its own power plant?

Jaja. Your word is better than any study ? Ok then you like to live in your own reallity.

No , a 300 watt panel costs less than $300 without subsidy
http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/module-folder/Astronergy/CHSM6612P-300.html
Large Solar Panels
Yes, I think that for some sunny zones it is more efficient, because they avoid the transmission and distribution costs and losses.

A 300 watt panel will not deliver 300 watts, at best 240 watts. I am going to reference every thing from your link. I think you did not read all the information on the panel you have chosen. In the info/FAQ it explains you will not get 300 watts from a panel, that is its laboratory tested best output that you quoted. Perfect conditions, meaning maximum sun at the perfect temperature.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/Information-SolarFolder/solar-panel-efficiency.html

A solar panel, which is rated at 17 volts will put out less than its rated power when used in a battery system. That’s because the working voltage will be between 12 and 15 volts. Because wattage (or power) is the product of volts multiplied by the amps, the module output will be reduced. For example, a 50-watt solar panel working at 13.0 volts will products 39.0 watts (13.0 volts x 3.0 amps = 39.0 watts). This is important to remember when sizing a PV system.

Next is the specs from the datasheet. NOCT is normal operating temperature, why is that stated? Simply because the Panel never operates at that normal temperature outside the testing laboratory. If we take into account the loss simply for hooking it up, as said above, the rated output of the panel, installed drops down to 160 watts, maybe less taking into account which temperature it will operate at any given location.

You can turn on one 100 watt lightbulb at a cost of well over 1300$, I imagine it would cost another 500$ to install, then of course it will have to be added to my homeowner insurance policy. I am thinking roof damage is a real concern.

http://pdf.wholesalesolar.com/module pdf folder/CHSM6612P-305_Specs.pdf

Rated output (Pmpp) at NOCT 209.5 Wp

So in stating the price, we only look at the panel? No inverter, no wire, no batteries.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/products.folder/systems-folder/OffGridPackages.html

Off-grid Solar Cabins / Starter Kits
Cabin Off-grid AC Kit 1 280 36 1890100 $1,290

.

You are challenging me, as to my knowledge, yet it is me that has to read the link you provide, I am assuming you did not read everything instead of ignoring the technical stuff. If you have not researched yourself and educated yourself on the simple basics of Solar what do you know of what I speak, when I state Solar can never pump water, or power the industry that is needed to sustain Solar.

 

[CultureCitizen]

A 300 watt panel will not deliver 300 watts, at best 240 watts. I am going to reference every thing from your link. I think you did not read all the information on the panel you have chosen. In the info/FAQ it explains you will not get 300 watts from a panel, that is its laboratory tested best output that you quoted. Perfect conditions, meaning maximum sun at the perfect temperature.

Well elektra , even if you consider all the factors you mention and divide the total energy output by 2 you still get the equivalent 275 gallons of gasoline. Even with current prices ($1.80 in Texas), you invest $300 and get the equivalent of $497 USD.

Granted, it is not as cheap as coal. You can get the same amount of energy from 4 tons of industrial coal at a price $38 per ton for a total of $165, which is about 4 times cheaper than the solar cell , considering all the inefficiencies of the solar cell.
Regardless, this are industrial prices, not the price at which the average person will be able to buy coal.

Solar for industry , not, not yet. For home usage, sure ,if you live in a sunny spot.

 

[elektra]

A 300 watt panel will not deliver 300 watts, at best 240 watts. I am going to reference every thing from your link. I think you did not read all the information on the panel you have chosen. In the info/FAQ it explains you will not get 300 watts from a panel, that is its laboratory tested best output that you quoted. Perfect conditions, meaning maximum sun at the perfect temperature.

Well elektra , even if you consider all the factors you mention and divide the total energy output by 2 you still get the equivalent 275 gallons of gasoline. Even with current prices ($1.80 in Texas), you invest $300 and get the equivalent of $497 USD.

Granted, it is not as cheap as coal. You can get the same amount of energy from 4 tons of industrial coal at a price $38 per ton for a total of $165, which is about 4 times cheaper than the solar cell , considering all the inefficiencies of the solar cell.
Regardless, this are industrial prices, not the price at which the average person will be able to buy coal.

Solar for industry , not, not yet. For home usage, sure ,if you live in a sunny spot.

Solar for a home is going to cost at least 20k, its not going to last much over 10 years, and will be obsolete as soon as you install. Further when you need to replace your roof or ever have a leak the cost to fix your roof will be incredible.

In southern California you would have to cut down millions of trees, and of course millions of homes were not designed for Solar. Further millions of homes do not even face the right direction.

If the government would quit destroying the cost of electricity with all its restrictive regulations and every other bureaucratic hurdle they allow electricity would be cheap.

And how about the water used to clean the panels? Or the risk of being on a roof while cleaning the panels? You do not simply rinse them off, we are in a devastating three year drought we are told, could go on a long time. Cleaning Solar panels is another burden on our heavily taxed water system.

 

[Yarddog]

California's desert is fast becoming a Solar Wasteland, what was once pristine desert habitat is being replaced with Industrial Scale Solar.

Thanks to Obama and the State Government of California.

California solar projects plan undergoing major overhaul - SFGate

With billions of dollars in federal stimulus money in hand, the Obama administration set out five years ago on a grand experiment in the California desert.

The goal: Open public lands to renewable-energy development to wean the nation from fossil fuels.

The results haven't been pretty, a fact the administration has tacitly acknowledged by devising a new plan, expected to be released this month, to find better places to put industrial-scale solar farms in the California desert.

The solar plants were rushed through the environmental approval process. Miles of unspoiled desert lands were scraped and bulldozed to make way for sprawling arrays of solar panels. Desert tortoises required mass relocation, and kit fox burrows were destroyed. Surprise troves of American Indian artifacts found in the Mojave Desert were moved to a San Diego warehouse, where they remain.


And once it was built, the largest solar plant of its kind in the world - the Ivanpah installation in the Mojave - began igniting birds and monarch butterflies that fly through intensely concentrated, reflected sunbeams aimed at 40-story "power towers," according to a confidential report by federal wildlife officials.

Much is at stake. Several projects are proposed near the three big national parks of the California desert: a 23-square-mile wind and solar farm in the Silurian Valley near Death Valley; a 3,000-acre solar project at Soda Mountain near the Mojave National Preserve that would straddle a bighorn sheep corridor; and another project by BrightSource at Palen, near Joshua Tree NationalPark, that would be a bigger version of Ivanpah and be located in a bird migratory path.

Other conflicts are playing out elsewhere in the desert.

Brian Brown, fourth-generation owner of the China Ranch date farm, is one of the few residents of the Silurian Valley, a remote area at the southern end of Death Valley National Park that is the site of the proposed 15,000-acre wind and solar farm by the Spanish firm Iberdrola Renewables. The area is all but surrounded by federally protected wilderness and home to historic pioneer trails.

The Silurian Valley is "all big, long vistas and gorgeous purple and blue mountains," Brown said, views he believes will be destroyed by creating "a big industrial zone."

And all of this is just the beginning. We are forced to buy an expensive product literally created by the government.

I do not want Obama's and California Energy policy driving up the cost of food, which is what expensive Solar does in a state dependent on Electricity to pump water.

Destruction of the Desert and forced to pay more for food, while the Republicans created the EPA, now they need to create another Agency to protect the Environment from the Government

One of my dear Uncles who is now passed away, owned a little silver claim out in the middle of the Mojave Desert, he bought it off some old prospector back in the 50's. It was nothing more than a cabin and a hole in the ground. He used to enjoy taking family members out there to go 'camping' , pulling a few rocks out of the ground and dreaming a little bit. He was a life long Democrat, but I remember how Pissed he was at Fienstien for passing some desert protection act, that said he could no longer drive a pickup truck down a dirt road.

Fuck these politicians, it really is all about the money isnt it? They have nothing in common with Americans. They are Washingtonians. sure know how to run our lives for us dont they? gonna protect us from ourselves. Oh wait, we elected them didnt we?

 

[Old Rocks]

Its pretty simple, It will take a long time to cover the entire South West with Solar Panels, at least 40 years your side tells us, within the first 10 years of time will start replacing panels that are getting burnt out by the sun.

I wonder how much recycling that will take, 5 square miles at a time, of how many square miles of solar?

That would be the case if the net output of solar panels was close to zero , which is the case for biofuels made from corn.
Sinc 2010 panels generate more energy than the energy that is required to create them .
Solar panels finally produce more energy than it takes to make them study finds The Verge

Recycling is a much more important factor. As I understand it's a process still in its infancy.

It ain't a matter if a study states Solar makes the energy it needs to turn sand into solar panels or some rare earth metal, that means nothing.

If solar came just a tiny bit close to what a "study" claims, we would not have to build them forever and ever. Do you even know the types of energy required, for what duration, that Solar manufacture requires?

I bet it takes gas and temperatures of at least 1800 c.

OK, asshole, just why don't you do some basic research and find out what it takes to build a solar panel, instead of just posting ignorant nonsense?

 

[elektra]

Its pretty simple, It will take a long time to cover the entire South West with Solar Panels, at least 40 years your side tells us, within the first 10 years of time will start replacing panels that are getting burnt out by the sun.

I wonder how much recycling that will take, 5 square miles at a time, of how many square miles of solar?

That would be the case if the net output of solar panels was close to zero , which is the case for biofuels made from corn.
Sinc 2010 panels generate more energy than the energy that is required to create them .
Solar panels finally produce more energy than it takes to make them study finds The Verge

Recycling is a much more important factor. As I understand it's a process still in its infancy.

It ain't a matter if a study states Solar makes the energy it needs to turn sand into solar panels or some rare earth metal, that means nothing.

If solar came just a tiny bit close to what a "study" claims, we would not have to build them forever and ever. Do you even know the types of energy required, for what duration, that Solar manufacture requires?

I bet it takes gas and temperatures of at least 1800 c.

OK, asshole, just why don't you do some basic research and find out what it takes to build a solar panel, instead of just posting ignorant nonsense?

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you did all the research Old Crock. You know so much you can just disagree as quick as you think. Its basic research, you are quick with "facts", tell us what it takes.

We can start with something simple, like the metal that Solar uses.

Then we can go on to the Aluminum, which uses gobs and gobs of electricity.

And then what it takes to melt sand.

Of course lets not forget Cadmium production.

Zinc production.

Or what about chemicals, which chemicals and what type of energy does that require.

Simple stuff, right. Except Old Crock and those who support Solar know so little, they do not have the answer.

 

[CultureCitizen]

In southern California you would have to cut down millions of trees, and of course millions of homes were not designed for Solar. Further millions of homes do not even face the right direction.

If the government would quit destroying the cost of electricity with all its restrictive regulations and every other bureaucratic hurdle they allow electricity would be cheap.

And how about the water used to clean the panels? Or the risk of being on a roof while cleaning the panels? You do not simply rinse them off, we are in a devastating three year drought we are told, could go on a long time. Cleaning Solar panels is another burden on our heavily taxed water system.

1.As I said , IF YOU LIVE IN A SUNNY SPOT. Yes, if you live in a basement it's a waste of resources.
2.No , the prices I gave you for coal are the cheapest price, and they don't even take into account the loss from the generation or transmission lines. The DIY solution works because there are no transmission losses.
3.The amount of water is negligible, that statement is as foolish as saying you can't clean your windows because there is a drought.

Solar Panel Cleaning It s Important

 

[elektra]

In southern California you would have to cut down millions of trees, and of course millions of homes were not designed for Solar. Further millions of homes do not even face the right direction.

If the government would quit destroying the cost of electricity with all its restrictive regulations and every other bureaucratic hurdle they allow electricity would be cheap.

And how about the water used to clean the panels? Or the risk of being on a roof while cleaning the panels? You do not simply rinse them off, we are in a devastating three year drought we are told, could go on a long time. Cleaning Solar panels is another burden on our heavily taxed water system.

1.As I said , IF YOU LIVE IN A SUNNY SPOT. Yes, if you live in a basement it's a waste of resources.
2.No , the prices I gave you for coal are the cheapest price, and they don't even take into account the loss from the generation or transmission lines. The DIY solution works because there are no transmission losses.
3.The amount of water is negligible, that statement is as foolish as saying you can't clean your windows because there is a drought.

Solar Panel Cleaning It s Important

Southern California's Coast is not sunny, you ever hear of the June Gloom, which is actually 3 months of Coastal Fog? If is a big word.

DIY? You are not going to feed into the grid?

The amount of water used, during a 3 year drought, by 30 million people, is not negligible.

That water comes from the city, that water is pumped, there is no DIY, with solar. Solar relies on water, it is foolish to state water use during a drought crisis is negligible.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Southern California's Coast is not sunny, you ever hear of the June Gloom, which is actually 3 months of Coastal Fog? If is a big word.

DIY? You are not going to feed into the grid?

The amount of water used, during a 3 year drought, by 30 million people, is not negligible.

That water comes from the city, that water is pumped, there is no DIY, with solar. Solar relies on water, it is foolish to state water use during a drought crisis is negligible.

Oh elektra , so pessimistic
1) Yes, DIY stands for do it yourself not for energy self sufficient.
2) Well , actually you can use a solar distiler. One square yard of surface can distile about a gallon which is the amount of water you'll need to keep the panel clean. So yes , it is negligible : you'll sepend like 1 galon per month because of leaks in the distiler.

 

[elektra]

Southern California's Coast is not sunny, you ever hear of the June Gloom, which is actually 3 months of Coastal Fog? If is a big word.

DIY? You are not going to feed into the grid?

The amount of water used, during a 3 year drought, by 30 million people, is not negligible.

That water comes from the city, that water is pumped, there is no DIY, with solar. Solar relies on water, it is foolish to state water use during a drought crisis is negligible.

Oh elektra , so pessimistic
1) Yes, DIY stands for do it yourself not for energy self sufficient.
2) Well , actually you can use a solar distiler. One square yard of surface can distile about a gallon which is the amount of water you'll need to keep the panel clean. So yes , it is negligible : you'll sepend like 1 galon per month because of leaks in the distiler.

Your idea of Solar, is the biggest scam in History. You got your idea rapped around something that won't provide for life, literally. You can fix up your house all you want with these expensive luxury, but in the end, they got built with Oil and made people Billionaires. It ain't you who is going to save a dollar, a dime, or a bucket of Oil.

Do it yourself, that ended with the buffalo.

 

[Judicial review]

Southern California's Coast is not sunny, you ever hear of the June Gloom, which is actually 3 months of Coastal Fog? If is a big word.

DIY? You are not going to feed into the grid?

The amount of water used, during a 3 year drought, by 30 million people, is not negligible.

That water comes from the city, that water is pumped, there is no DIY, with solar. Solar relies on water, it is foolish to state water use during a drought crisis is negligible.

Oh elektra , so pessimistic
1) Yes, DIY stands for do it yourself not for energy self sufficient.
2) Well , actually you can use a solar distiler. One square yard of surface can distile about a gallon which is the amount of water you'll need to keep the panel clean. So yes , it is negligible : you'll sepend like 1 galon per month because of leaks in the distiler.

Your idea of Solar, is the biggest scam in History. You got your idea rapped around something that won't provide for life, literally. You can fix up your house all you want with these expensive luxury, but in the end, they got built with Oil and made people Billionaires. It ain't you who is going to save a dollar, a dime, or a bucket of Oil.

Do it yourself, that ended with the buffalo.

Why are you so upsest with the desert? Do you like big poisonous spiders and scopions? Go build yourself a shack out there and travel 20 miles to get a drink. You have this thing about California and it's pissing me off. All of California is becoming desert. You know that, right? You'll get your wish and live on pure cracked dirt. Not to mention your dumbass state will go bankrupt eventually, so you will feel it, while many are smart and getting out. You think detroit is bad just wait. But hey it's your own town. Live with it. I've been to CA many times.

 

[elektra]

Southern California's Coast is not sunny, you ever hear of the June Gloom, which is actually 3 months of Coastal Fog? If is a big word.

DIY? You are not going to feed into the grid?

The amount of water used, during a 3 year drought, by 30 million people, is not negligible.

That water comes from the city, that water is pumped, there is no DIY, with solar. Solar relies on water, it is foolish to state water use during a drought crisis is negligible.

Oh elektra , so pessimistic
1) Yes, DIY stands for do it yourself not for energy self sufficient.
2) Well , actually you can use a solar distiler. One square yard of surface can distile about a gallon which is the amount of water you'll need to keep the panel clean. So yes , it is negligible : you'll sepend like 1 galon per month because of leaks in the distiler.

Your idea of Solar, is the biggest scam in History. You got your idea rapped around something that won't provide for life, literally. You can fix up your house all you want with these expensive luxury, but in the end, they got built with Oil and made people Billionaires. It ain't you who is going to save a dollar, a dime, or a bucket of Oil.

Do it yourself, that ended with the buffalo.

Why are you so upsest with the desert? Do you like big poisonous spiders and scopions? Go build yourself a shack out there and travel 20 miles to get a drink. You have this thing about California and it's pissing me off. All of California is becoming desert. You know that, right? You'll get your wish and live on pure cracked dirt. Not to mention your dumbass state will go bankrupt eventually, so you will feel it, while many are smart and getting out. You think detroit is bad just wait. But hey it's your own town. Live with it. I've been to CA many times.

Gee "Strawberry", you got you pink panty's in an uproar.

Yep, we will go bankrupt, and beings how California is too big to fail, guess what.

Most of the nations produce comes from california, what hurts us, kicks your ass, most Californians are Rich or on Welfare, and we know who pays for welfare, its not the state.

 

[Judicial review]

Southern California's Coast is not sunny, you ever hear of the June Gloom, which is actually 3 months of Coastal Fog? If is a big word.

DIY? You are not going to feed into the grid?

The amount of water used, during a 3 year drought, by 30 million people, is not negligible.

That water comes from the city, that water is pumped, there is no DIY, with solar. Solar relies on water, it is foolish to state water use during a drought crisis is negligible.

Oh elektra , so pessimistic
1) Yes, DIY stands for do it yourself not for energy self sufficient.
2) Well , actually you can use a solar distiler. One square yard of surface can distile about a gallon which is the amount of water you'll need to keep the panel clean. So yes , it is negligible : you'll sepend like 1 galon per month because of leaks in the distiler.

Your idea of Solar, is the biggest scam in History. You got your idea rapped around something that won't provide for life, literally. You can fix up your house all you want with these expensive luxury, but in the end, they got built with Oil and made people Billionaires. It ain't you who is going to save a dollar, a dime, or a bucket of Oil.

Do it yourself, that ended with the buffalo.

Why are you so upsest with the desert? Do you like big poisonous spiders and scopions? Go build yourself a shack out there and travel 20 miles to get a drink. You have this thing about California and it's pissing me off. All of California is becoming desert. You know that, right? You'll get your wish and live on pure cracked dirt. Not to mention your dumbass state will go bankrupt eventually, so you will feel it, while many are smart and getting out. You think detroit is bad just wait. But hey it's your own town. Live with it. I've been to CA many times.

Gee "Strawberry", you got you pink panty's in an uproar.

Yep, we will go bankrupt, and beings how California is too big to fail, guess what.

Most of the nations produce comes from california, what hurts us, kicks your ass, most Californians are Rich or on Welfare, and we know who pays for welfare, its not the state.

Be honest... Do you like whip cream or chocolate on your strawberries?

 

[elektra]

Southern California's Coast is not sunny, you ever hear of the June Gloom, which is actually 3 months of Coastal Fog? If is a big word.

DIY? You are not going to feed into the grid?

The amount of water used, during a 3 year drought, by 30 million people, is not negligible.

That water comes from the city, that water is pumped, there is no DIY, with solar. Solar relies on water, it is foolish to state water use during a drought crisis is negligible.

Oh elektra , so pessimistic
1) Yes, DIY stands for do it yourself not for energy self sufficient.
2) Well , actually you can use a solar distiler. One square yard of surface can distile about a gallon which is the amount of water you'll need to keep the panel clean. So yes , it is negligible : you'll sepend like 1 galon per month because of leaks in the distiler.

Your idea of Solar, is the biggest scam in History. You got your idea rapped around something that won't provide for life, literally. You can fix up your house all you want with these expensive luxury, but in the end, they got built with Oil and made people Billionaires. It ain't you who is going to save a dollar, a dime, or a bucket of Oil.

Do it yourself, that ended with the buffalo.

Why are you so upsest with the desert? Do you like big poisonous spiders and scopions? Go build yourself a shack out there and travel 20 miles to get a drink. You have this thing about California and it's pissing me off. All of California is becoming desert. You know that, right? You'll get your wish and live on pure cracked dirt. Not to mention your dumbass state will go bankrupt eventually, so you will feel it, while many are smart and getting out. You think detroit is bad just wait. But hey it's your own town. Live with it. I've been to CA many times.

Gee "Strawberry", you got you pink panty's in an uproar.

Yep, we will go bankrupt, and beings how California is too big to fail, guess what.

Most of the nations produce comes from california, what hurts us, kicks your ass, most Californians are Rich or on Welfare, and we know who pays for welfare, its not the state.

Be honest... Do you like whip cream or chocolate on your strawberries?

Strawberries are a low hanging fruit, not surprised, you suggesting whip cream.