Soft Heads In Senate Gun Control Hearing

[M14 Shooter]

92% of americans want background checks. (91% of gun owners)
you saying "the left" makes up 92% of the American population?

States already have background checks which is sufficient. There is no need for the federal govt to know what guns I have.

Well yes and no. Many states do not report people that are seriously mentally ill...

That's because there's no law that disqualifies the "seriously mentally ill" from the purchase of a firearm.

 

[M14 Shooter]

A gun buyer registration is an idea I floated near the beginning of this topic, and have floated several times on this forum.

Basically, you register gun buyers and not guns. Just like you go through a vetting process to register to vote, you would go through a vetting process to register as a potential gun buyer. Just as voter registration prevent felons and non-citizens from voting, so would a gun buyer registration prevent felons and non-citizens and crazy people from buying a When you go to vote, the lady at the voting precinct makes sure your name is on the approved voters list. If you go to buy a gun, the seller would make sure your name is on the approved gun buyer's list.

How does this differ from having a list of people who are ineligible to buy a gun, and checking that list when they try? You know - like what we have now?

Because it provides approval for people that wish to buy a firearm.

Ah yes... the state must approve the exercise of our rights.

You DO admit that if this conversation were about any the exercise of any other right, you'd be squealing like a stuck pig - right?

 

[OriginalShroom]

If they are ineligable to purchase a firearm because of their lack of mental powers, are they ineligable to vote for the same reason?

 

[idb]

How does this differ from having a list of people who are ineligible to buy a gun, and checking that list when they try? You know - like what we have now?

Because it provides approval for people that wish to buy a firearm.

Ah yes... the state must approve the exercise of our rights.

You DO admit that if this conversation were about any the exercise of any other right, you'd be squealing like a stuck pig - right?

I simply don't see what the big issue is here.
On the one hand a minor inconvenience to responsible gun owners and on the other hand a tool to help keep lethal weapons out of the hands of undesirables.
Where's the problem?
Why isn't that a good thing?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Because it provides approval for people that wish to buy a firearm.

Ah yes... the state must approve the exercise of our rights.

You DO admit that if this conversation were about any the exercise of any other right, you'd be squealing like a stuck pig - right?

I simply don't see what the big issue is here.

Of requriing permission from the state to exercise your rights?
Of -course- you don't.

 

[Flopper]

States already have background checks which is sufficient. There is no need for the federal govt to know what guns I have.

Well yes and no. Many states do not report people that are seriously mentally ill...

That's because there's no law that disqualifies the "seriously mentally ill" from the purchase of a firearm.

Federal law makes it illegal to sell or give a firearm to anyone who "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution." This is not the problem. Many states don't report the names of people who've been legally labeled dangerously mentally thus they will be able to pass background checks. Also only licensed gun dealers are required to do a background check. As I understand the proposed legislation, it will address both of these shortcomings.

However, to make the system really work, you would have to have gun registration just like we do with motor vehicles. Individual or dealers would be required to do a background check and report sales and purchases. If you don't have some method of tracking of sales, individuals will purchase guns for people who can not pass a background. Registration and the reporting of sales and purchases makes this much more difficult.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Well yes and no. Many states do not report people that are seriously mentally ill...

That's because there's no law that disqualifies the "seriously mentally ill" from the purchase of a firearm.

Federal law makes it illegal to sell or give a firearm to anyone who "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution."

This differs from "seriously mentally ill".
I rest my case. Thank you.

However, to make the system really work, you would have to have gun registration just like we do with motor vehicles.

You don't need to registe r acar that you keep in your garage and drive on private property.

 

[Flopper]

That's because there's no law that disqualifies the "seriously mentally ill" from the purchase of a firearm.

Federal law makes it illegal to sell or give a firearm to anyone who "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution."

This differs from "seriously mentally ill".
I rest my case. Thank you.

However, to make the system really work, you would have to have gun registration just like we do with motor vehicles.

You don't need to registe r acar that you keep in your garage and drive on private property.

Unlike a car in your garage, a gun in your home can kill and maim others.

 

[Dubya]

That's because there's no law that disqualifies the "seriously mentally ill" from the purchase of a firearm.

Federal law makes it illegal to sell or give a firearm to anyone who "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution."

This differs from "seriously mentally ill".
I rest my case. Thank you.

However, to make the system really work, you would have to have gun registration just like we do with motor vehicles.

You don't need to registe r acar that you keep in your garage and drive on private property.

Can you keep a bullet on your property once you pull the trigger?

 

[idb]

Ah yes... the state must approve the exercise of our rights.

You DO admit that if this conversation were about any the exercise of any other right, you'd be squealing like a stuck pig - right?

I simply don't see what the big issue is here.

Of requriing permission from the state to exercise your rights?
Of -course- you don't.

So, you agree that every person should be allowed to own a gun regardless of mental state or intended use ("I'm gunna buy a gun and kill me a judge")?

 

[M14 Shooter]

Federal law makes it illegal to sell or give a firearm to anyone who "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution."

This differs from "seriously mentally ill".
I rest my case. Thank you.

However, to make the system really work, you would have to have gun registration just like we do with motor vehicles.

You don't need to registe r acar that you keep in your garage and drive on private property.

Unlike a car in your garage, a gun in your home can kill and maim others.

Cars can't kill/maim others?
Hoiw is it then that cars kill more people than guns?

You said "Just like we do for cars".
I see you want to take that back.
Not a surprise.

 

[M14 Shooter]

I simply don't see what the big issue is here.

Of requriing permission from the state to exercise your rights?
Of -course- you don't.

So, you agree that every person should be allowed to own a gun regardless of mental state or intended use

Non-sequitur, strawman.
Please DO feel free to try again,

 

[Flopper]

This differs from "seriously mentally ill".
I rest my case. Thank you.

You don't need to registe r acar that you keep in your garage and drive on private property.

Unlike a car in your garage, a gun in your home can kill and maim others.

Cars can't kill/maim others?
Hoiw is it then that cars kill more people than guns?

You said "Just like we do for cars".
I see you want to take that back.
Not a surprise.

I said cars in the garage can't kill, however guns in the home can.
Cars unlike firearms are not designed to kill, yet we still license both car and the driver.

 

[whitehall]

You almost gotta laugh. While the senate was holding hearings related to firearms the freaking president was busy pardoning half a dozen junkies and a guy who was convicted of a gun related crime.

 

[OriginalShroom]

Because it provides approval for people that wish to buy a firearm.

Ah yes... the state must approve the exercise of our rights.

You DO admit that if this conversation were about any the exercise of any other right, you'd be squealing like a stuck pig - right?

I simply don't see what the big issue is here.
On the one hand a minor inconvenience to responsible gun owners and on the other hand a tool to help keep lethal weapons out of the hands of undesirables.
Where's the problem?
Why isn't that a good thing?

Do you see a problem with requiring a person to present a photo ID to cast a ballot to prevent voter fraud?

Do you see a problem with requiring a woman to wait three days to have an abortion?

Do you see a problem with requiring a Speaker from having to have the Government fact check their speech so that no one gets their feelings hurt or to ensure that they don't inflame the crowd?

Do you see a problem the Government limiting crowd sizes, say to seven people so that riots don't get started?

Do you see a problem with the Government having to approve religious texts so that no one is offended?

Do you see a problem with having to get Government permission to exercise any of your other rights?

 

[PaulS1950]

We license cars and drivers because driving is a privilege that can be revoked - the ownership of guns are a right - like right to free speach, the right to practice the religion of your choice, the right to be secure in your person and information, The right to be free from self incrimination.

There is a big difference between a right and a privilege. The constitution guarantees the protection of our rights.

 

[PaulS1950]

Do you see a problem with requiring a person to present a photo ID to cast a ballot to prevent voter fraud?

Do you see a problem with requiring a woman to wait three days to have an abortion?

Do you see a problem with requiring a Speaker from having to have the Government fact check their speech so that no one gets their feelings hurt or to ensure that they don't inflame the crowd?

Do you see a problem the Government limiting crowd sizes, say to seven people so that riots don't get started?

Do you see a problem with the Government having to approve religious texts so that no one is offended?

Do you see a problem with having to get Government permission to exercise any of your other rights?

Since you have to be a citizen to vote - an ID is the only way to know if a person is a citizen.

A three day wait for an abortion provides the time to back out if they change their mind - abortion is not a right.

The government doesn't "fact check" their own speeches and they have no business checking mine.

The government has no right to limit the size of peacable assemblies - do you remember all the marches on DC?

The government cannot "approve" or "dis-approve" religious texts. If they did the Old Testament would have been banned for advocating violence.

The government cannot "give their permission" or "withhold permission" in the practice of our rights. They have only the power to protect and preserve those rights - in spite of the way they have abused those rights.

 

[OriginalShroom]

Do you see a problem with requiring a person to present a photo ID to cast a ballot to prevent voter fraud?


Do you see a problem with requiring a woman to wait three days to have an abortion?

Do you see a problem with requiring a Speaker from having to have the Government fact check their speech so that no one gets their feelings hurt or to ensure that they don't inflame the crowd?

Do you see a problem the Government limiting crowd sizes, say to seven people so that riots don't get started?

Do you see a problem with the Government having to approve religious texts so that no one is offended?

Do you see a problem with having to get Government permission to exercise any of your other rights?

Since you have to be a citizen to vote - an ID is the only way to know if a person is a citizen.

I agree

A three day wait for an abortion provides the time to back out if they change their mind - abortion is not a right.

It is indeed a "right" according to the courts.

The government doesn't "fact check" their own speeches and they have no business checking mine.

I agree


The government has no right to limit the size of peacable assemblies - do you remember all the marches on DC?

I agree and the Government has no right to limit the number of rounds my gun magazine can hold. But they are.

The government cannot "approve" or "dis-approve" religious texts. If they did the Old Testament would have been banned for advocating violence.

Ok


The government cannot "give their permission" or "withhold permission" in the practice of our rights. They have only the power to protect and preserve those rights - in spite of the way they have abused those rights.

The point I was making to the person I had quoted, was that the Government does not have the right to claim to be ensuring someone else's safety at the cost of my rights as enumerated and protected by the Constitution.

 

[OKTexas]

Federal law makes it illegal to sell or give a firearm to anyone who "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution."

This differs from "seriously mentally ill".
I rest my case. Thank you.

However, to make the system really work, you would have to have gun registration just like we do with motor vehicles.

You don't need to registe r acar that you keep in your garage and drive on private property.

Can you keep a bullet on your property once you pull the trigger?

I do it all the time.

 

[OKTexas]

Unlike a car in your garage, a gun in your home can kill and maim others.

Cars can't kill/maim others?
Hoiw is it then that cars kill more people than guns?

You said "Just like we do for cars".
I see you want to take that back.
Not a surprise.

I said cars in the garage can't kill, however guns in the home can.
Cars unlike firearms are not designed to kill, yet we still license both car and the driver.

That's supposed to help pay for the roads, the state doesn't provide me a place to shoot. But they do charge for hunting and fishing licenses.