Socialism and the purpose of government

[JoeB131]

So, what do you think the purpose of government is? Do you agree with the socialists - that everything should be "run democratically"?

Why is that a particularly "socialist" view?

The purpose of government is to be an arbitrator. nothing more, nothing less, but it should have a bias towards protecting consumers and workers instead of businesses and capitalists. They'll be just fine, really.

Yes. That's what he's saying. Trumpsters aren't libertarians. They adore authoritarian government.

And yet, the Libertarians support him 100%. Just like the Evangelicals, who just ignore that stuff with Porn Stars.

 

[JoeB131]

That's the cynic's view, and I get where you're coming from. But what is the justification for it? What makes it a "necessary" evil? What should society empower government to do? Should "both society and the economy be run democratically"?

That would be nice.

Again, I kind of like that the government looks out for my rights as a worker and a consumer.

 

[dblack]

So, what do you think the purpose of government is? Do you agree with the socialists - that everything should be "run democratically"?

Why is that a particularly "socialist" view?

Beats me. Insecurity? Maybe they got picked on when they were kids.

And yet, the Libertarians support him 100%.

Well, that's just a flat-out lie:

Trump is the opposite of a Libertarian | Libertarian Party

www.dsausa.org

 

[dblack]

That's the cynic's view, and I get where you're coming from. But what is the justification for it? What makes it a "necessary" evil? What should society empower government to do? Should "both society and the economy be run democratically"?

That would be nice.

I have no doubt you like the idea. Is there anything you don't want government to dictate?

 

[bripat9643]

It's not a free choice, you dumb asshole.

Who is stopping you from leaving the country?

what force or power is keeping you from leaving?

I'm done discussing this. You're too dumb to understand a simple argument. I've torn your argument apart at least a dozen times, and all you do is keep restating it. Bye, moron.

run away and hide little man!

you say it is not your free choice to be here but you know that is bullshit, you just lack the balls to back up the words you type on an internet forum.

You claim you didn't say "America, love it or leave it," but we all saw that you said exactly that."

You're a thug who is immune to facts and logic. There's no point in discussing anything with you.

I said nobody is forcing you to stay, you say you are here not of your own free will...so I will ask again...who is forcing you to stay?

Fuck off, blowhard. I don't waste my time debating idiots who are unable to commit logic.

 

[ph3iron]

So you'd agree that workers should receive pay equal to the productive value of their work, not the market value of their job skills?

Yes, but the only fair way to establish the productive value of one's work is by what another person is willing to pay for said work.

Without a minimum wage, McDonalds could choose to pay its workers $0.20 per hour. But, if Wendy's and Burger King are paying $10 per hour, McDonalds is shit out of luck. MickeyD's has to pay $10 per hour or have no employees.

We call this the free market.

.

Glad you have an education.
Actually even with a PHD tried walking into a drug companies board room and demanding more?
I and the board have laughed at such rubes.
After a history of fixing drug prices we laugh at the free market.
I remember when my cable bill was $10 a month and promised it would stay there because of the free market.
The free market is a myth, money has and always will control

And just out of interest here's a bunch of socialist programs we are all sucking off.
Number one - THE MILITARY!!!
75 Ways Socialism Has Improved America

 

[ph3iron]

Who is stopping you from leaving the country?

what force or power is keeping you from leaving?

I'm done discussing this. You're too dumb to understand a simple argument. I've torn your argument apart at least a dozen times, and all you do is keep restating it. Bye, moron.

run away and hide little man!

you say it is not your free choice to be here but you know that is bullshit, you just lack the balls to back up the words you type on an internet forum.

You claim you didn't say "America, love it or leave it," but we all saw that you said exactly that."

You're a thug who is immune to facts and logic. There's no point in discussing anything with you.

I said nobody is forcing you to stay, you say you are here not of your own free will...so I will ask again...who is forcing you to stay?

Fuck off, blowhard. I don't waste my time debating idiots who are unable to commit logic.

Nice foul mouth.
Trumpie U?
Ever asked yourself why you have to spout bile??
Makes you feel more of a WV man??

 

[Richard-H]

Who is stopping you from leaving the country?

what force or power is keeping you from leaving?

I'm done discussing this. You're too dumb to understand a simple argument. I've torn your argument apart at least a dozen times, and all you do is keep restating it. Bye, moron.

run away and hide little man!

you say it is not your free choice to be here but you know that is bullshit, you just lack the balls to back up the words you type on an internet forum.

You claim you didn't say "America, love it or leave it," but we all saw that you said exactly that."

You're a thug who is immune to facts and logic. There's no point in discussing anything with you.

I said nobody is forcing you to stay, you say you are here not of your own free will...so I will ask again...who is forcing you to stay?

Fuck off, blowhard. I don't waste my time debating idiots who are unable to commit logic.

For a guy that declared that you "do not waste my time arguing...", you sure spent a lot of time arguing with him.

Then you imply that he's not logical?

That's really, really funny!

 

[JoeB131]

I have no doubt you like the idea. Is there anything you don't want government to dictate?

probably better than resolving disputes with a fist-fight...

Okay, here's the problem with you Libertarian Children.... you think of Government as this strange force of alien creatures.

The Government is us. Sadly, that's the worst thing you can say about it. Want better government, make better people. The thing is, we are less virtuous with each generation, hence the need for more government, not less.

Take the internet. All sort of new ways less scrupulous people have found to lie, cheat and steal, from the comfort of their own homes.

 

[Dale Smith]

I have no doubt you like the idea. Is there anything you don't want government to dictate?

probably better than resolving disputes with a fist-fight...

Okay, here's the problem with you Libertarian Children.... you think of Government as this strange force of alien creatures.

The Government is us. Sadly, that's the worst thing you can say about it. Want better government, make better people. The thing is, we are less virtuous with each generation, hence the need for more government, not less.

Take the internet. All sort of new ways less scrupulous people have found to lie, cheat and steal, from the comfort of their own homes.

 

[WheelieAddict]

The debate over whether we should have more, or less, socialism in US government is largely a debate over the purpose of government. Socialists "believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically". That might sound relatively innocuous. But it's a radical claim, one we should consider seriously before indulging a more socialistic government.

The libertarian roots of the United States contradict this belief. In the US, neither society, nor the economy, is run democratically. Each is run collaboratively, voluntarily, by the individuals who make up society. Government merely serves as a "referee". Socialists want government to be the "coach".

Which libertarian government should we aspire to?

 

[dblack]

I have no doubt you like the idea. Is there anything you don't want government to dictate?

probably better than resolving disputes with a fist-fight...

Okay, here's the problem with you Libertarian Children.... you think of Government as this strange force of alien creatures.

Really? Quote? Where have I ever said anything like that?

The Government is us. Sadly, that's the worst thing you can say about it. Want better government, make better people. The thing is, we are less virtuous with each generation, hence the need for more government, not less.

The government is some of us looking to bully some others of us. Majority support doesn't bless the bullying and somehow make it right.

 

[ralfy]

The government in this case exists to serve Wall Street.

 

[dblack]

The debate over whether we should have more, or less, socialism in US government is largely a debate over the purpose of government. Socialists "believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically". That might sound relatively innocuous. But it's a radical claim, one we should consider seriously before indulging a more socialistic government.

The libertarian roots of the United States contradict this belief. In the US, neither society, nor the economy, is run democratically. Each is run collaboratively, voluntarily, by the individuals who make up society. Government merely serves as a "referee". Socialists want government to be the "coach".

Which libertarian government should we aspire to?

It depends on what you think the purpose of government should be. If you think the purpose of government includes running society, or the economy, you don't want a libertarian government at all.

 

[WheelieAddict]

The debate over whether we should have more, or less, socialism in US government is largely a debate over the purpose of government. Socialists "believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically". That might sound relatively innocuous. But it's a radical claim, one we should consider seriously before indulging a more socialistic government.

The libertarian roots of the United States contradict this belief. In the US, neither society, nor the economy, is run democratically. Each is run collaboratively, voluntarily, by the individuals who make up society. Government merely serves as a "referee". Socialists want government to be the "coach".

Which libertarian government should we aspire to?

It depends on what you think the purpose of government should be. If you think the purpose of government includes running society, or the economy, you don't want a libertarian government at all.

What successful libertarian government is a good model of what you have in mind?

 

[dblack]

The debate over whether we should have more, or less, socialism in US government is largely a debate over the purpose of government. Socialists "believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically". That might sound relatively innocuous. But it's a radical claim, one we should consider seriously before indulging a more socialistic government.

The libertarian roots of the United States contradict this belief. In the US, neither society, nor the economy, is run democratically. Each is run collaboratively, voluntarily, by the individuals who make up society. Government merely serves as a "referee". Socialists want government to be the "coach".

Which libertarian government should we aspire to?

It depends on what you think the purpose of government should be. If you think the purpose of government includes running society, or the economy, you don't want a libertarian government at all.

What successful libertarian government is a good model of what you have in mind?

Not playing. Do you think the purpose of government is to "run" society?

 

[WheelieAddict]

The debate over whether we should have more, or less, socialism in US government is largely a debate over the purpose of government. Socialists "believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically". That might sound relatively innocuous. But it's a radical claim, one we should consider seriously before indulging a more socialistic government.

The libertarian roots of the United States contradict this belief. In the US, neither society, nor the economy, is run democratically. Each is run collaboratively, voluntarily, by the individuals who make up society. Government merely serves as a "referee". Socialists want government to be the "coach".

Which libertarian government should we aspire to?

It depends on what you think the purpose of government should be. If you think the purpose of government includes running society, or the economy, you don't want a libertarian government at all.

What successful libertarian government is a good model of what you have in mind?

Not playing. Do you think the purpose of government is to "run" society?

I'm not playing either. Is there a proven libertarian form of govt that is better than our current system of govt or is the just a hypothetical. Or do you believe in anarchy and whoever has the most might "runs society"?

 

[dblack]

The debate over whether we should have more, or less, socialism in US government is largely a debate over the purpose of government. Socialists "believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically". That might sound relatively innocuous. But it's a radical claim, one we should consider seriously before indulging a more socialistic government.

The libertarian roots of the United States contradict this belief. In the US, neither society, nor the economy, is run democratically. Each is run collaboratively, voluntarily, by the individuals who make up society. Government merely serves as a "referee". Socialists want government to be the "coach".

Which libertarian government should we aspire to?

It depends on what you think the purpose of government should be. If you think the purpose of government includes running society, or the economy, you don't want a libertarian government at all.

What successful libertarian government is a good model of what you have in mind?

Not playing. Do you think the purpose of government is to "run" society?

I'm not playing either. Is there a proven libertarian form of govt that is better than our current system of govt or is the just a hypothetical. Or do you believe in anarchy and whoever has the most might "runs society"?

This thread is about the purpose of government. There's been a persistent effort of late to sell socialism as "no big deal"- as something we're already doing anyway, so why not a little more? But it's really a lot more than that. The idea that government should "run" society, much less the economy, is a radical departure from traditional US government. Don't you think it's worth a discussion?

 

[Oddball]

So, what do you think the purpose of government is? Do you agree with the socialists - that everything should be "run democratically"?

Why is that a particularly "socialist" view?

The purpose of government is to be an arbitrator. nothing more, nothing less, but it should have a bias towards protecting consumers and workers instead of businesses and capitalists. They'll be just fine, really.

 

[JoeB131]

The government is some of us looking to bully some others of us. Majority support doesn't bless the bullying and somehow make it right.

Sure it does.

What worries me is when a minority screams too loud and prevents us from enacting common sense laws.... you know, like gun control.