Zone1 Social Security Scam

[martybegan]

The government receives revenue from the infusion of the surplus back into the economy. It's a 'sow and reap' thing.

What surplus? The surplus is GONE, or soon to be gone.

 

[Woodznutz]

Until the government can't pay back what it owes without messing with the general budget or grossly increasing taxes.

THIS is why people call SS a Ponzi scheme, and they have a point, except while it has the functionality of one, it isn't one because it is perfectly legal in it' own case.

It's actually more of a pyramid scheme. Ponzi schemes rarely have surpluses to rest upon.

 

[dblack]

Until the government can't pay back what it owes without messing with the general budget or grossly increasing taxes.

THIS is why people call SS a Ponzi scheme, and they have a point, except while it has the functionality of one, it isn't one because it is perfectly legal in it' own case.

I agree. It's not a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes may be fraudulent, but they're voluntary. No one is forced to buy in.

 

[martybegan]

It's actually more of a pyramid scheme. Ponzi schemes rarely have surpluses to rest upon.

No, it's a Ponzi scheme structurally as it requires people paying in to pay off the people going out. The surplus is what made it structurally feasible but the surplus has been wasted on general fund non investment type bonds, when it could have been making money itself for decades.

 

[martybegan]

I agree. It's not a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes may be fraudulent, but they're voluntary. No one is forced to buy in.

It still has the structure of a Ponzi scheme, minus the long term surplus of course.

 

[Woodznutz]

What surplus? The surplus is GONE, or soon to be gone.

The surplus is spent on government programs, which puts the money directly into the general economy, where it is taxed over and over.

Whenever I have surplus money I invest it in safe instruments, never in the stock market. I prefer certainty. It's a 'tortoise and hare' thing (although I have already crossed the finish line).

 

[martybegan]

The surplus is spent on government programs, which puts the money directly into the general economy, where it is taxed over and over.

Whenever I have surplus money I invest it in safe instruments, never in the stock market. I prefer certainty. It's a 'tortoise and hare' thing (although I have already crossed the finish line).

So basically it goes into sinkholes, never to come back.

 

[Woodznutz]

No, it's a Ponzi scheme structurally as it requires people paying in to pay off the people going out. The surplus is what made it structurally feasible but the surplus has been wasted on general fund non investment type bonds, when it could have been making money itself for decades.

The surplus will be gone in a few years and it will be a simple 'put and take' system once again.

 

[Woodznutz]

So basically it goes into sinkholes, never to come back.

That's a whole 'nother conversation.

 

[martybegan]

The surplus will be gone in a few years and it will be a simple 'put and take' system once again.

Taking from the general fund, which was never intended.

 

[Woodznutz]

No, it's a Ponzi scheme structurally as it requires people paying in to pay off the people going out. The surplus is what made it structurally feasible but the surplus has been wasted on general fund non investment type bonds, when it could have been making money itself for decades.

Participants in a Ponzi scheme are generally unaware of it. Not so with a pyramid scheme.

 

[martybegan]

That's a whole 'nother conversation.

Well it's the same conversation, because SS has to go digging into those sinkholes now.

 

[martybegan]

Participants in a Ponzi scheme are generally unaware of it. Not so with a pyramid scheme.

That's different from the mechanics of the system. SS can't be a pyramid scheme because there is only one level in Social security.

 

[Woodznutz]

Taking from the general fund, which was never intended.

Nothing is set in stone.

 

[martybegan]

Nothing is set in stone.

Well that's why they should have modified the SS law to allow for investment back in the 60's. Too late to do it now without a massive input from the general fund to get things going.

 

[Woodznutz]

Well it's the same conversation, because SS has to go digging into those sinkholes now.

The other conversation is about why the need for SS in the first place, and why the continuing need for it.

 

[Woodznutz]

Well that's why they should have modified the SS law to allow for investment back in the 60's. Too late to do it now without a massive input from the general fund to get things going.

SS is always being modified, but not placed at risk. It's still a political hot potato. Payments to high income seniors should be reduced, instead they are increased. I don't need my SS payment and invest all of it.

 

[martybegan]

The other conversation is about why the need for SS in the first place, and why the continuing need for it.

For the first, you have to ask a bunch of dead people. For the 2nd, once money has been put in by millions of people, millions of people (including me, I've been paying in since my first part time job at 15 years old) expect to be paid out.

 

[DudleySmith]

Reduce payments to SS by 50 percent
while doubling or tripling payments to recipients.
How would that work?

It won't. Unless you want massive deflation. I don't mind that at all but most would whine no end, same as they do now.

 

[DudleySmith]

SS is always being modified, but not placed at risk. It's still a political hot potato. Payments to high income seniors should be reduced, instead they are increased. I don't need my SS payment and invest all of it.

Yes, a ceiling would be nice. I give most of mine away, and I pay a lot more into Medicare than I ever use every year, even though I've been paying premiums on that for decades, but some seem to think seniors are getting lots of free shit or something and others like to spread that bullshit. The HMO's and a lot of doctors think of Medicare and SS both as entitlement programs for them. Doctors used to be a middle class profession, not a new Lamborghini and 20 room house every year. You used to have had to be a major well known surgeon to make 6 digits. I see my primary care doc twice a year and have three cheap meds that ought to be free given what the pharms charge Medicare for them.