So who thinks insulting a veteran on these forums is poor form?

[Hossfly]

Please tell me which country jepoardized your freedom. There are many reasons why you go to war but to secure your freedom is not one of them.

Germany, Japan, the USSR. I said we have helped free many others, did you miss that? South Korea probably prefers not to be part of North Korea. The cold war killed communism to a large extent in Russia and the USSR broke up. Sorry if that bothers you, eh.

I already stated since WW2 so Japan & Germany are nullified. As for the USSR, they were never threatening your freedom. The cold war was 2 war mongering countries that spent way too much money beefing up their military might. Money that would have been better used elsewhere. Cold War didn't kill communism, the people of the communist bloc countries killed communism themselves. As for South & North Korea, there conflict was the product of two super-powers trying to control them each with their own puppet governments. Anytime the US interfers in the Koreas the two get further apart.

Someone has filled your pointy little head full of jabberwocky instead of history.

 

[Roadrunner]

You need to elaborate. What club are you talking about?

I would have thought that was obvious - a 'gimme'.

By that, I mean, are you a veteran of the US or an allied military, yourself?

Absolutely not. Never going to fight to help the rich get richer.

Pretty much what I thought.

The rest of us will view your remark: 'A veteran should not be considered above anyone else.' with all the seriousness and credibility it deserves.

Much more credibility than all that nonsense about fighting for freedom. I remember seeing that bumper sticker that read "My son is in Iraq so you can have your freedom" Somebody suggested that was propaganda. I stated no, it's an outright lie. In my books military personel get less respect than others. We can blame Bush or any other president for these invasions and wars but the real problem is those who sign up to blindly do their bidding.

Oh, there's no escaping the idea that the Iraq War was complete and total bullshit.

However, when you are in the Armed Forces, you don't get to pick and choose your wars; you go where your country needs you to go.

Hindsight is 20/20 - the casus belli for Iraq was already looking questionable at the time but things were far less clear in 2003 than they were a couple of years later, when that horseshit bumper sticker would have been printed.

And that uncertainty goes double for the personal confusion experienced by the young people of the times who were badly used by their civilian superiors.

Do not blame the young kids who went into harm's way, in connection with Iraq. Blame their civilian elected officials, who sent them there on false premises.

If you truly believe that the REAL problem is the people who sign-up to serve their country and to put themselves into harm's way, rather than the errant public officials who, from time to time, send them on missions or campaigns of questionable value or merit, then, you are not someone whom most of your countrymen would want to stand beside.

And, if you truly cannot correctly distinguish between dedication and service to country and countrymen, versus misuse by elected civilian government officials, then you are also not particularly perceptive, nor realistic - nor, for that matter, much of an American, as that appellation is commonly perceived and applied by most of your own countrymen.

As I said before - the rest of us will view your remark - 'A veteran should not be considered above anyone else' - with all the seriousness and credibility that it deserves.

Thank you for your feedback.

Don't blame the elected officials; blame the functionally illiterate voters of American Idol Nation.

Most people who vote cannot name the three branches of government, or their Constitutional function.

It is a major cop out to blame the politicians when the voters issue the license to steal.

 

[Roadrunner]

You guise get this all worked out yet?

You talkin' into a machine?

"guise?"

 

[Iceweasel]

I already stated since WW2 so Japan & Germany are nullified. As for the USSR, they were never threatening your freedom. The cold war was 2 war mongering countries that spent way too much money beefing up their military might. Money that would have been better used elsewhere. Cold War didn't kill communism, the people of the communist bloc countries killed communism themselves. As for South & North Korea, there conflict was the product of two super-powers trying to control them each with their own puppet governments. Anytime the US interfers in the Koreas the two get further apart.

Ask the South Koreans how they feel about US involvement. They aren't going to give a shit about your abstract world view. The USSR spent a very high percentage (like N. Korea) on weapons in the arms race. You discounting the effects has no bearing on history. You live in a bubble.

 

[Mad Scientist]

You guise get this all worked out yet?

You talkin' into a machine? "guise?"

Sorry, I meant to ask: "Youse guise gettin' dis all woiked out dere?".

 

[JWBooth]

You're partly right about the top brass. Obama, like Stalin and every good dictator, is purging the military of patriotic Generals and Admirals and high ranking officers. He's keeping his yes-men and coffee fetchers and defanging the military. But you can't attach any blame to the rank and file. All the veterans know what is happening but it won't happen long.

Obama is slightly less useful than a colic stricken infant.
As is the feather bedded pentagon.
Half of the O6s and above could be retired out right now and all it would do is improve efficiency. I don't give two shits how "patriotic" you claim that they are, mostly they are nothing more than lifelong leaches on the taxpayers of this country. Retirement ought to be cut in half as well, let them go and earn a paycheck just like everybody else who hasn't made it to 65.

 

[Iceweasel]

Half of the O6s and above could be retired out right now and all it would do is improve efficiency. I don't give two shits how "patriotic" you claim that they are, mostly they are nothing more than lifelong leaches on the taxpayers of this country. Retirement ought to be cut in half as well, let them go and earn a paycheck just like everybody else who hasn't made it to 65.

There's probably some truth to that. I knew more than a few guys that were probably unemployable in the private sector and joined for the benefits and security. That said, you can be put in harms way so it isn't like a typical government job (which could use a serious trimming too).

 

[Toro]

Please tell me which country jepoardized your freedom. There are many reasons why you go to war but to secure your freedom is not one of them.

Germany, Japan, the USSR. I said we have helped free many others, did you miss that? South Korea probably prefers not to be part of North Korea. The cold war killed communism to a large extent in Russia and the USSR broke up. Sorry if that bothers you, eh.

I already stated since WW2 so Japan & Germany are nullified. As for the USSR, they were never threatening your freedom. The cold war was 2 war mongering countries that spent way too much money beefing up their military might. Money that would have been better used elsewhere. Cold War didn't kill communism, the people of the communist bloc countries killed communism themselves. As for South & North Korea, there conflict was the product of two super-powers trying to control them each with their own puppet governments. Anytime the US interfers in the Koreas the two get further apart.

Gets farther apart from the brutal communist dictatorship in the north?

I bloody well hope so.

What a bunch of naive crap.

Thank God for America. The US won the Cold War in spite of appeaseniks like yourself.

 

[Rikurzhen]

You're partly right about the top brass. Obama, like Stalin and every good dictator, is purging the military of patriotic Generals and Admirals and high ranking officers. He's keeping his yes-men and coffee fetchers and defanging the military. But you can't attach any blame to the rank and file. All the veterans know what is happening but it won't happen long.

Obama is slightly less useful than a colic stricken infant.
As is the feather bedded pentagon.
Half of the O6s and above could be retired out right now and all it would do is improve efficiency. I don't give two shits how "patriotic" you claim that they are, mostly they are nothing more than lifelong leaches on the taxpayers of this country. Retirement ought to be cut in half as well, let them go and earn a paycheck just like everybody else who hasn't made it to 65.

Why O6s and above? Why not all officers?

Secondly, nix the retirement suggestion. It's unethical to change the terms of a contract after it's been in place for a time. The time to change the contract is before it's signed. You what to alter the retirement benefits, then do it during the recruiting phase so that recruits can make informed decisions. Don't promise them one then and then yank it away 20 years later.

 

[Dot Com]

You're partly right about the top brass. Obama, like Stalin and every good dictator, is purging the military of patriotic Generals and Admirals and high ranking officers. He's keeping his yes-men and coffee fetchers and defanging the military. But you can't attach any blame to the rank and file. All the veterans know what is happening but it won't happen long.

"all the veterans"? I don't remember nominating you as my spokesman.

OK You're dismissed.

WRONG!!! YOU'RE dismissed from being all vets self-appointed spokesman

Carry on.

 

[sealybobo]

Asclepias insisted a man that claims to be a vet is not and insults him. Who thinks this is poor form? How would you feel if someone claimed you were not a vet as you claim?

I think it is ok to insult them on USMB, not in real life. If they come here they are looking for honest replies so they must be able to take it. For example, I use to argue with Iraqi solders who thought that Iraqi oil was paying for the war or that we were over there to give Iraqi's freedom. They were lied to. They are just grunts on the front line. In fact us liberals following the war from all angles including getting feedback from 3rd parties like Europe and the rest of the world knew before the troops did that we had been lied into Iraq.

Yet here on USMB we have soldiers telling us we don't know what we are talking about because "we weren't there". Sorry boys, you don't know because you were there. You didn't have access to all the v, the radio.etc. I saw the movie Abu Grabe. I feel sorry for the soldiers. They got killed, blown up, brainwashed, ptsd. They were just following orders and they were lied to. 1 tour turned into 5.

I've also had soldiers tell me we went there for freedom or wmd's. So clearly they didn't know what the **** they were over there for. Just doing what they were told.

 

[sealybobo]

You're partly right about the top brass. Obama, like Stalin and every good dictator, is purging the military of patriotic Generals and Admirals and high ranking officers. He's keeping his yes-men and coffee fetchers and defanging the military. But you can't attach any blame to the rank and file. All the veterans know what is happening but it won't happen long.

Obama is slightly less useful than a colic stricken infant.
As is the feather bedded pentagon.
Half of the O6s and above could be retired out right now and all it would do is improve efficiency. I don't give two shits how "patriotic" you claim that they are, mostly they are nothing more than lifelong leaches on the taxpayers of this country. Retirement ought to be cut in half as well, let them go and earn a paycheck just like everybody else who hasn't made it to 65.

Why O6s and above? Why not all officers?

Secondly, nix the retirement suggestion. It's unethical to change the terms of a contract after it's been in place for a time. The time to change the contract is before it's signed. You what to alter the retirement benefits, then do it during the recruiting phase so that recruits can make informed decisions. Don't promise them one then and then yank it away 20 years later.

You guys were ok when they did it to City of Detroit workers and when they did it to GM and Chrysler workers.

What did they tell those pensioners? Sorry, we don't have the money. We're broke. So what will we tell the soldiers? Sorry, we don't have the money we promised you. We are broke.

If you want to fund their pensions, get rid of all the unfair tax breaks to the rich and corporations. Make them start paying their fair share again. Matter of fact, stop worrying about what's fair. What worked? Go back to doing that.

Don't just roll back the Bush tax cuts, roll back the Reagan ones too.

 

[Rikurzhen]

You're partly right about the top brass. Obama, like Stalin and every good dictator, is purging the military of patriotic Generals and Admirals and high ranking officers. He's keeping his yes-men and coffee fetchers and defanging the military. But you can't attach any blame to the rank and file. All the veterans know what is happening but it won't happen long.

Obama is slightly less useful than a colic stricken infant.
As is the feather bedded pentagon.
Half of the O6s and above could be retired out right now and all it would do is improve efficiency. I don't give two shits how "patriotic" you claim that they are, mostly they are nothing more than lifelong leaches on the taxpayers of this country. Retirement ought to be cut in half as well, let them go and earn a paycheck just like everybody else who hasn't made it to 65.

Why O6s and above? Why not all officers?

Secondly, nix the retirement suggestion. It's unethical to change the terms of a contract after it's been in place for a time. The time to change the contract is before it's signed. You what to alter the retirement benefits, then do it during the recruiting phase so that recruits can make informed decisions. Don't promise them one then and then yank it away 20 years later.

You guys were ok when they did it to City of Detroit workers and when they did it to GM and Chrysler workers.

What did they tell those pensioners? Sorry, we don't have the money. We're broke. So what will we tell the soldiers? Sorry, we don't have the money we promised you. We are broke.

If you want to fund their pensions, get rid of all the unfair tax breaks to the rich and corporations. Make them start paying their fair share again. Matter of fact, stop worrying about what's fair. What worked? Go back to doing that.

Don't just roll back the Bush tax cuts, roll back the Reagan ones too.

If the US goes bankrupt, then everything is on the table. GM and Chrysler are private corporations, so that's a bad example.

You magically introduced the notion of us being bankrupt but that's not the topic, I was responding to JWBooth's call to unilaterally change the pension terms because he doesn't like military pensions for his own reasons.

To you pension funding suggestion. Better to end welfare and food stamps. A pension is part of a contract, recruits agree to the terms and conditions of the contract, which include pay and other benefits and they keep up their end of the bargain. It's an unsupportable position to claim that they would all have entered into the contract if the pension benefit was removed. Food stamps, student loans, medicaid, etc are not contracts, they free give-aways. Cut them.

 

[sealybobo]

You're partly right about the top brass. Obama, like Stalin and every good dictator, is purging the military of patriotic Generals and Admirals and high ranking officers. He's keeping his yes-men and coffee fetchers and defanging the military. But you can't attach any blame to the rank and file. All the veterans know what is happening but it won't happen long.

Obama is slightly less useful than a colic stricken infant.
As is the feather bedded pentagon.
Half of the O6s and above could be retired out right now and all it would do is improve efficiency. I don't give two shits how "patriotic" you claim that they are, mostly they are nothing more than lifelong leaches on the taxpayers of this country. Retirement ought to be cut in half as well, let them go and earn a paycheck just like everybody else who hasn't made it to 65.

Why O6s and above? Why not all officers?

Secondly, nix the retirement suggestion. It's unethical to change the terms of a contract after it's been in place for a time. The time to change the contract is before it's signed. You what to alter the retirement benefits, then do it during the recruiting phase so that recruits can make informed decisions. Don't promise them one then and then yank it away 20 years later.

You guys were ok when they did it to City of Detroit workers and when they did it to GM and Chrysler workers.

What did they tell those pensioners? Sorry, we don't have the money. We're broke. So what will we tell the soldiers? Sorry, we don't have the money we promised you. We are broke.

If you want to fund their pensions, get rid of all the unfair tax breaks to the rich and corporations. Make them start paying their fair share again. Matter of fact, stop worrying about what's fair. What worked? Go back to doing that.

Don't just roll back the Bush tax cuts, roll back the Reagan ones too.

If the US goes bankrupt, then everything is on the table. GM and Chrysler are private corporations, so that's a bad example.

You magically introduced the notion of us being bankrupt but that's not the topic, I was responding to JWBooth's call to unilaterally change the pension terms because he doesn't like military pensions for his own reasons.

To you pension funding suggestion. Better to end welfare and food stamps. A pension is part of a contract, recruits agree to the terms and conditions of the contract, which include pay and other benefits and they keep up their end of the bargain. It's an unsupportable position to claim that they would all have entered into the contract if the pension benefit was removed. Food stamps, student loans, medicaid, etc are not contracts, they free give-aways. Cut them.

City of Detroit workers were promised a pension instead of a raise. They agreed, and now Rick Snyder fucked them because we don't have the money.

Those City of Detroit workers were government employees just like soldiers are. I say either you can't renig on either of them or you can renig on both. I'm not going to protect vets and **** everyone else.

Funny how you guys were ok with ******* City of Detroit workers out of their pensions but you don't want to do it to another group of Americans. Sorry. What's fair is fair.

 

[sealybobo]

But he had the money to give his buddies all 150% raises and his corporate friends huge tax breaks. If you want to not renig on pensions and benefits we promised the troops, either you are asking the rich to pay more in taxes or you are volunteering to pay more. Which is it?

 

[Rikurzhen]

But he had the money to give his buddies all 150% raises and his corporate friends huge tax breaks. If you want to not renig on pensions and benefits we promised the troops, either you are asking the rich to pay more in taxes or you are volunteering to pay more. Which is it?

I'm saying deport 20 million infiltrators. There have to be millions of kids associated with those infiltrators. Cost of public education is now north of $11,000 per year, in some locations even higher.

1,000,000 kids * $11,000 = $11 Billion per YEAR in tax savings.

Now slap on Medical care for those kids.

Who can even guess at how much their parents are stealing from us.

 

[sealybobo]

But he had the money to give his buddies all 150% raises and his corporate friends huge tax breaks. If you want to not renig on pensions and benefits we promised the troops, either you are asking the rich to pay more in taxes or you are volunteering to pay more. Which is it?

I'm saying deport 20 million infiltrators. There have to be millions of kids associated with those infiltrators. Cost of public education is now north of $11,000 per year, in some locations even higher.

1,000,000 kids * $11,000 = $11 Billion per YEAR in tax savings.

Now slap on Medical care for those kids.

Who can even guess at how much their parents are stealing from us.

Why not go after the employers that hire them? If the jobs went away those illegals would pack up and be gone by next month.

America has 2 signs on the border. A little one that reads stay out and a big one that reads HELP WANTED.

You can not deny Bush and the GOP had something to do with this:

"Between 1999 and 2003, work-site enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 in 1999 to four in 2003, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics.

"In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three."

- See more at: Thom Hartmann - News info from the 1 progressive radio show News. Opinion. Debate
What changed? The Presidency changed.

 

[sealybobo]

But he had the money to give his buddies all 150% raises and his corporate friends huge tax breaks. If you want to not renig on pensions and benefits we promised the troops, either you are asking the rich to pay more in taxes or you are volunteering to pay more. Which is it?

I'm saying deport 20 million infiltrators. There have to be millions of kids associated with those infiltrators. Cost of public education is now north of $11,000 per year, in some locations even higher.

1,000,000 kids * $11,000 = $11 Billion per YEAR in tax savings.

Now slap on Medical care for those kids.

Who can even guess at how much their parents are stealing from us.

If you deport them they'll just come back on visitor visas or cross the border. Too expensive to do it your way. Just go after the teasonist traitors who hire illegals.

This is just like the drug war. Stop going after the users and go after the drug dealers.

 

[Hossfly]

You're partly right about the top brass. Obama, like Stalin and every good dictator, is purging the military of patriotic Generals and Admirals and high ranking officers. He's keeping his yes-men and coffee fetchers and defanging the military. But you can't attach any blame to the rank and file. All the veterans know what is happening but it won't happen long.

"all the veterans"? I don't remember nominating you as my spokesman.

OK You're dismissed.

WRONG!!! YOU'RE dismissed from being all vets self-appointed spokesman

Carry on.

Since you don't know what is happening I will exclude Dot Com from any further comments.

 

[rdean]

Asclepias insisted a man that claims to be a vet is not and insults him. Who thinks this is poor form? How would you feel if someone claimed you were not a vet as you claim?

Republicans on the USMB have made that claim against me many times. They have also claimed I like children, and not in a good way. That I'm a communist. And lot's of other dirty smears. And all I do is post the truth.