So which side do you come down on?

[Mr.Fitnah]

Here is <em>Fitna</em> - Jihad Watch

CNN) -- Controversial Dutch lawmaker Geert Wilders appeared in court Wednesday on charges of inciting discrimination and hatred that relate in part to his much-criticized film about Islam.

Wednesday's session at the Court of Amsterdam was a pre-trial hearing and a full trial was due to begin later this year. A court spokesman said the hearing was expected to last one day but could stretch into Thursday.

Wilders, who heads the Dutch Party for Freedom, said he has done nothing wrong. "I will fight," he promised in a statement Tuesday on the party's Web site.
Prosecutors initially decided not to pursue the case, saying in June 2008 that Wilders' statements were not liable to punishment, the Public Prosecutions Service said. They said that even though Wilders' comments were "defamatory and hurtful to a great number of Muslims," they fell within the limits of free speech.
Filmmaker Geert Wilders faces hatred charges - CNN.com

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

"Far-right MP Geert Wilders on trial for discrimination against Muslims," by David Charter for the Times Online, January 20:

Geert Wilders, the far-right MP who likens the Koran to Hitler's Mein Kampf, goes on trial today in a politically charged test of the limits of tolerance and free speech in the Netherlands.
Mr Wilders, 46, leader of the Freedom Party, is charged with incitement and discrimination against Muslims over his outspoken comments attacking Islam and for his film, Fitna, which juxtaposed images of 9/11 and beheadings with verses of the Koran. He has called the Koran "a fascist book" and described Islamic culture as retarded.
Mr Wilders, who has made no secret of his ambition to become Prime Minister, has called his indictment a political trial but the Amsterdam Court of Appeal decided that it was in the public interest to prosecute him because his comments have been "so insulting to Muslims".
"I am being prosecuted for my political convictions," Mr Wilders said this week.
Geert Wilders: "If a politician is not allowed to criticize an ideology anymore this means that we are lost, and it will lead to the end of our freedom" - Jihad Watch

 

[Baruch Menachem]

From what I read, all of it is in marginal taste but only the most thin skinned could get upset about it. What the Muslims say about the rest of us is 1000 times worse.

Here, it would be protected speech even on the wost PC campus.

 

[Kalam]

Let him say what he wants. The notion that a single peroxide-crazed moron can impede the inevitable spread of Islam is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Is objecting to Islamic supremacy of genocidal practices hate speech?

 

[L.K.Eder]

lol guy wants free speech for himself, but wants to outlaw the koran.

 

[Kalam]

Is objecting to Islamic supremacy of genocidal practices hate speech?

Objecting to Islam is futile.

 

[Mr Natural]

I didn't even have to read the OP to cast my vote.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

lol guy wants free speech for himself, but wants to outlaw the koran.

The quran does call for genocide, there are limits to free speech already in place.

 

[Kalam]

lol guy wants free speech for himself, but wants to outlaw the koran.

The quran does call for genocide, there are limits to free speech already in place.

You're confusing the Qur'an with your own religious scripture.

 

[uptownlivin90]

I come down on the "I'll mind my damn business and you mind yours and we'll all get along" side.

 

[Avatar4321]

i dont like any of those options. I am always in favor of free speech though.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

lol guy wants free speech for himself, but wants to outlaw the koran.

The quran does call for genocide, there are limits to free speech already in place.

You're confusing the Qur'an with your own religious scripture.

Verse 2:193
Yusuf Ali:
And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
Zohurul Hoque:
And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostilities except against the unjust.
T. J. Irving:
Fight them until there is no more subversion and [all] religion belongs to God. If they stop, let there be no [more] hostility except toward wrongdoers.
T.U. Hilali-M. Khan:
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
M. Pickthall:
And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
M.H. Shakir:
And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

2.193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

YouTube - Geert Wilders spreekt de rechtbank toe

Mister Speaker, judges of the court,
I would like to make use of my right to speak for a few minutes.

Freedom is the most precious of all our attainments and the most vulnerable. People have devoted their lives to it and given their lives for it. Our freedom in this country is the outcome of centuries. It is the consequence of a history that knows no equal and has brought us to where we are now.

I believe with all my heart and soul that the freedom in the Netherlands is threatened. That what our heritage is, what generations could only dream about, that this freedom is no longer a given, no longer self-evident.

I devote my life to the defence of our freedom. I know what the risks are and I pay a price for it every day. I do not complain about it; it is my own decision. I see that as my duty and it is why I am standing here.

I know that the words I use are sometimes harsh, but they are never rash. It is not my intention to spare the ideology of conquest and destruction, but I am not any more out to offend people. I have nothing against Muslims. I have a problem with Islam and the Islamization of our country because Islam is at odds with freedom.

Future generations will wonder to themselves how we in 2010, in this place, in this room, earned our most precious attainment. Whether there is freedom in this debate for both parties and thus also for the critics of Islam, or that only one side of the discussion may be heard in the Netherlands? Whether freedom of speech in the Netherlands applies to everyone or only to a few? The answer to this is at once the answer to the question whether freedom still has a home in this country.

Freedom was never the property of a small group, but was always the heritage of us all. We are all blessed by it.

Lady Justice wears a blindfold, but she has splendid hearing. I hope that she hears the following sentences, loud and clear:

It is not only a right, but also the duty of free people to speak against every ideology that threatens freedom. Thomas Jefferson, the third President of the United States was right: The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

I hope that the freedom of speech shall triumph in this trial.

In conclusion, Mister Speaker, judges of the court.

This trial is obviously about the freedom of speech. But this trial is also about the process of establishing the truth. Are the statements that I have made and the comparisons that I have taken, as cited in the summons, true? If something is true then can it still be punishable? This is why I urge you to not only submit to my request to hear witnesses and experts on the subject of freedom of speech. But I ask you explicitly to honour my request to hear witnesses and experts on the subject of Islam. I refer not only to Mister Jansen and Mister Admiraal, but also to the witness/experts from Israel, the United States, and the United Kingdom. Without these witnesses, I cannot defend myself properly and, in my opinion, this would not be an fair trial.

 

[Kalam]

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers. - 2:193

The sacred month for the sacred month, and retaliation in sacred things. Whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and keep your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. - 2:194​

Yawn.

Ever hear of a place called Midian?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers. - 2:193

The sacred month for the sacred month, and retaliation in sacred things. Whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and keep your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty. - 2:194​

Yawn.

Ever hear of a place called Midian?

Yawn.
Verse 2:193
Yusuf Ali:
And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.
Zohurul Hoque:
And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostilities except against the unjust.
T. J. Irving:
Fight them until there is no more subversion and [all] religion belongs to God. If they stop, let there be no [more] hostility except toward wrongdoers.
T.U. Hilali-M. Khan:
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)
M. Pickthall:
And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.
M.H. Shakir:
And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

2.193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

 

[Kalam]

Are you so hopelessly stupid that you don't remember posting that same passage minutes ago?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Yeah that must be it.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

This poll sucks.

 

[Kalam]

Yeah that must be it.

Acknowledging that you have a problem is a good thing. Baby steps.