So the Oceans are rising are they?

[westwall]

You only say that because you're about as retarded and clueless as PoledBare is. Neither of you could find your ass if you sat on it.

I do find it amusing that you constantly resort to grade school insults in an effort to bolster your ego. Sad. I would hope that you would have grown up since you were last here but no, you're the same ignorant young boy you've allways been.

I find it very amusing that you continue to post the same old, thoroughly debunked denier cult myths and lies over and over again, long after anyone with even a minimal level of intelligence would have seen through the pathetically lame pseudo-science coming from the fossil fuel industry. Sad. I had hoped that you would have overcome the brainwashing you've received and would have started to look at the actual evidence by now but I guess that would have involved growing a brain and that's something you've never yet managed to do so unfortunately you remain the same ignorant, clueless, idiotic numbskull you've always been.

And BTW, I'm older than you are, punk.

I doubt it junior, I doubt it. Adults have a better command of the English language. You're just a typical internet Troll. And not a particularly interesting or amusing one. Just a run of the mill troll.

 

[RollingThunder]

I do find it amusing that you constantly resort to grade school insults in an effort to bolster your ego. Sad. I would hope that you would have grown up since you were last here but no, you're the same ignorant young boy you've allways been.

I find it very amusing that you continue to post the same old, thoroughly debunked denier cult myths and lies over and over again, long after anyone with even a minimal level of intelligence would have seen through the pathetically lame pseudo-science coming from the fossil fuel industry. Sad. I had hoped that you would have overcome the brainwashing you've received and would have started to look at the actual evidence by now but I guess that would have involved growing a brain and that's something you've never yet managed to do so unfortunately you remain the same ignorant, clueless, idiotic numbskull you've always been.

And BTW, I'm older than you are, punk.

I doubt it junior, I doubt it.

You "doubt" a lot of things that are demonstrably true but that is because you are an ignorant, clueless, scientifically illiterate moron.

Adults have a better command of the English language.

LOLOLOLOL....coming from you, that's really funny.

You're just a typical internet Troll. And not a particularly interesting or amusing one. Just a run of the mill troll.

You're just a typical denier cult troll, posting nutjob pseudo-science, misinformation, lies and fossil fuel industry propaganda. You have no idea what is going on, you just parrot the bunk that the rightwingnut media echo chamber pours into your head. Your utter stupidity does make you amusing at times though.

 

[westwall]

I find it very amusing that you continue to post the same old, thoroughly debunked denier cult myths and lies over and over again, long after anyone with even a minimal level of intelligence would have seen through the pathetically lame pseudo-science coming from the fossil fuel industry. Sad. I had hoped that you would have overcome the brainwashing you've received and would have started to look at the actual evidence by now but I guess that would have involved growing a brain and that's something you've never yet managed to do so unfortunately you remain the same ignorant, clueless, idiotic numbskull you've always been.

And BTW, I'm older than you are, punk.

I doubt it junior, I doubt it.

You "doubt" a lot of things that are demonstrably true but that is because you are an ignorant, clueless, scientifically illiterate moron.

Adults have a better command of the English language.

LOLOLOLOL....coming from you, that's really funny.

You're just a typical internet Troll. And not a particularly interesting or amusing one. Just a run of the mill troll.

You're just a typical denier cult troll, posting nutjob pseudo-science, misinformation, lies and fossil fuel industry propaganda. You have no idea what is going on, you just parrot the bunk that the rightwingnut media echo chamber pours into your head. Your utter stupidity does make you amusing at times though.

Sure junior sure Here's a dolly, don't play in the street.

 

[RollingThunder]

I doubt it junior, I doubt it.

You "doubt" a lot of things that are demonstrably true but that is because you are an ignorant, clueless, scientifically illiterate moron.

Adults have a better command of the English language.

LOLOLOLOL....coming from you, that's really funny.

You're just a typical internet Troll. And not a particularly interesting or amusing one. Just a run of the mill troll.

You're just a typical denier cult troll, posting nutjob pseudo-science, misinformation, lies and fossil fuel industry propaganda. You have no idea what is going on, you just parrot the bunk that the rightwingnut media echo chamber pours into your head. Your utter stupidity does make you amusing at times though.

Sure junior sure Here's a dolly, don't play in the street.

Hey, kid, thanks for demonstrating once again the lack of any intelligence in your replies. But then what can we expect from a high school dropout like you who's still living in his mom's basement.

 

[westwall]

You "doubt" a lot of things that are demonstrably true but that is because you are an ignorant, clueless, scientifically illiterate moron.



LOLOLOLOL....coming from you, that's really funny.



You're just a typical denier cult troll, posting nutjob pseudo-science, misinformation, lies and fossil fuel industry propaganda. You have no idea what is going on, you just parrot the bunk that the rightwingnut media echo chamber pours into your head. Your utter stupidity does make you amusing at times though.

Sure junior sure Here's a dolly, don't play in the street.

Hey, kid, thanks for demonstrating once again the lack of any intelligence in your replies. But then what can we expect from a high school dropout like you who's still living in his mom's basement.

Ahhh you wish sonny. I have a nice plot of land and a wonderful family and friends to share it with. On the other hand. People like you, who constantly insult people are most often underachievers and suffer from many personality disorders. I suggest you go see a psychologist for your condition. Hopefully they can help you so that you too can have a good life like mine!

 

[polarbear]

I doubt it junior, I doubt it.

You "doubt" a lot of things that are demonstrably true but that is because you are an ignorant, clueless, scientifically illiterate moron.



LOLOLOLOL....coming from you, that's really funny.

You're just a typical internet Troll. And not a particularly interesting or amusing one. Just a run of the mill troll.

You're just a typical denier cult troll, posting nutjob pseudo-science, misinformation, lies and fossil fuel industry propaganda. You have no idea what is going on, you just parrot the bunk that the rightwingnut media echo chamber pours into your head. Your utter stupidity does make you amusing at times though.

Sure junior sure Here's a dolly, don't play in the street.

I`m only guessing what the usual 2 morons are posting here. It`s amazing how much less crap appears on your screen just by putting this asshole and the other one "Old Rocks" on the ignore list...
It`s enough if some of it shows up in Your quotes, but 1/2 turn on the mouse wheel gets me by...instead of having to scroll entire screen pages.

Anyways here is something interesting, seems a lot of other people think these computer models are total crap, and the entire internet has been cluttered up with that bozo stuff, that It`s getting harder and harder to find REAL data...
...Too bad there is no such thing as an "ignore button" @ Google, but maybe some day there will be.

Till then we have to put up with what people write here, the likes of "OldRocks" and Thunder farts who have an "ignorant" button on their fore head, which was jammed into their brains at birth by a clumsy nurse...

I`ve seen on Westwall`s quote something this retard "Thunder whatever" wrote ...

Let`s look @ PS`s GIANT MISTAKES, like the Maldives..

I don`t know in which cave he lives or in which tree, but it`s been all over the world news..but it may well be that Nurse Ratched doesn`t let him watch what`s going on outside the retard asylum..
So here it is again...the Maldives are @ the last third of the CBC Documentary, BBC had it, every Eurovision Channel had it in every language spoken in the EU, it was even on Ria Novosty & on the Japanese News,...!!!

CBC - Global Warming Doomsday Called Off

And here is a whole bunch of people who`s retard circuit breaker shutting the oxygen flow off to the brain was`nt punched in at birth


Arctic Sea Ice

Satellites could provide more definite answers, but we are currently in a gap between ICESat and CryoSat-2. ESA and NASA are doing a fascinating job in the Arctic gathering data which will be used to calibrate the latter as we speak. In the meantime we fill the time by speculating, and a big part of that speculation is fueled by ice thickness models.
The best known models in Arctic sea ice amateur circles are PIPS 2.0 (Polar Ice Prediction System), PIOMAS (Pan-Arctic Ice-Ocean Modeling and Assimilation System) and TOPAZ (Towards an Operational Prediction system for the North Atlantic European coastal Zones). Although model output is not as good an approximation of reality as actual data - to put it mildly - it is still interesting to look at.

I`ve been far to long in the military to be putting things "mildly."...

The page goes on

A warm river runs through it
Never a dull moment, always something new to see and learn!

I'm eyeballing the Arctic sea ice graphs page several times a day and noticed something new the day before yesterday while eyeing the Arctic SST map from the National Centers for Environmental Prediction (NCEP), run by climate scientist and blogger Robert Grumbine (the sea ice and sea surface temperature groups, not NCEP itself):

It struck me that the river surface temperatures of some of the Russian rivers were anomalously high (as much as 8 degrees C in some places), which isn't that remarkable of course when you consider the air temperatures on that side of the world, which have been high for quite a while now:

The intruiging thing, when you think about it, is of course that the water of these warm Russian rivers eventually ends up in the seas on the Siberian Coast. Two of the rivers that light up red and crimson on the NCEP SST map, the Ob and the Yenisei, flow out into the Kara Sea. The third one, the Lena, empties into the Laptev Sea. What happens when that relatively warm, fresh water reaches the icy shores? Is there an effect on ice melt, now that the melting season has started?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Remark:

That`s almost the same thing in the Hudson Bay,...every time Manitoba Hydro has to dump the Nelson River Reservoirs, the ice recedes during that time....but is back ~ 24 hours later....So Yes, he caught on to it

This was the question that popped up in my head when I noticed some emerging red and orange in the Kara Sea on the DMI/COI SST anomaly map, right where the estuaries of the Ob and Yenisei are situated. There's a red and orange blob close to Severnaya Zemlya (which even had some pink in it yesterday), but I think that's some sort of artefact:

And I'm not the only one speculating here, as there was another blogger last summer who asked the same question in relation to the massive heatwave in Siberia. Googling around some more I found a few hints here and there on the effect of warm river water. Such as this sequence in a book called Exploring Polar frontiers: A - L., Volume 1 by William James Mills:

His plan was to acquire a sturdy Norwegian sealer and sail it along the Northeast Passage to the Lena Delta. There, Toll said, the best dogs in the world could be obtained. Also,the comparatively warm river water would enable him to find open water leading north of the New Siberian Islands, hopefully to "Sannikov Land".

I found a few scattered clues on a web page called Russian Nature:

In the Laptev Sea, heat flux through weaknesses and leads in summer months exceeds the estimated heat input by river runoff by a factor of 2.5 (Zakharov, 1966).

The Yenisey and the Ob bring warmer water into the western Kara and accelerate ice melt.

In summer, the removal of old ice, heat gain by dark polynya areas and relatively warm river runoff accelerate ice melt, and most of the Laptev becomes ice-free as far as 77°N by mid-September (Barnett, 1991).

Gareth Renowden of the Hot Topic blog - one of those bloggers who is keeping his eye firmly on what is happening up there - had a piece called Dragging the River almost three years ago that was about our beloved methane bomb, but indirectly touches on warm rivers as well:

Now the anthropogenic warming of the northeast Siberian area have lead to increased river discharge and higher temperature on both river water and other costal water which could contribute to an accelerated erosion of the permafrost layer.

But I hit the jackpot when I found a paper that deals specifically with the influence of river discharge on the thawing of sea ice, by Dean et al. 1994 [PDF]. The research focuses on the MacKenzie Delta, which is on the other side of the pond, and the data is almost 25 years old, but there's a lot of information pertaining to the subject of this blog post. From the conclusion:

Ice melts offshore from rivers earlier than it does along coasts with minimal river discharge. In the case of the Mackenzie River, fast ice is removed two weeks earlier than along surrounding coasts where river discharge is minimal. However, the ice removal process starts two months earlier.

The melting of sea ice by arctic rivers involves three processes: initial flooding, absorption of solar radiation and heat provided by warm water discharged by the river. Offshore from the Mackenzie River channels, the albedo of the water that overflows the fast ice is as much as 1/7 that of sea ice values, and hence the water absorbs significantly more energy than ice-covered surfaces even after melt-ponds develop. This absorbed energy initiates the melting process offshore of river channels. In our study, the albedo values of pack ice decreased as much as 113 between May and August. Approximately two weeks after the overflows develop, sea surface temperatures offshore from the delta begin to rise as the volume of “warm” water discharged by the river peaks and becomes the dominant source of energy that melts fast ice.

During my seach I also discovered that there has been an increasing trend in river discharge - touched upon in the aforementioned Hot Topic article - to the Arctic Ocean from both Eurasia (over 1936-2008) and North America (over 1970-2008), according to the Arctic Report Card for 2010, suggesting that both rivers and sea ice were responding to changes in large-scale hemispheric climate patterns (Shiklomanov and Lammers, 2009 :http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/4/4/045015/pdf/1748-9326_4_4_045015.pdf

I'm sure there has been more research into this (though most recent papers are pay-walled), with a focus on the added effect of Global Warming on the temperature of those 'warm' rivers. If anyone knows about this, please share quotes and links in the comments.

This is obviously one of the things that kicks off the melting season. I'm seeing it for the first time and will be giving some extra attention to the Siberian coast the coming weeks. Never a dull moment, always something new to see and learn!

As You can see from the mile long list of comments when You go to his page and the pages many of the commentators link to, the sewer rats have not yet infested the realms of rationally thinking people...

Actually it`s not all that bad here either.
We have only 2 of them here from the ~ 21000 or so registered users..


But let`s not even think about them and instead go back to these guys here

Flushing out the Fjord 2

This is a brief update to the first Flushing out the Fjord post.

It looks some more ice is being flushed out of the Illulisat fjord. Here's an animation of the past week:

Although it looks quite spectacular, this isn't as uncommon as I suspected it to be. I'm going to look some farther back when I've mustered enough courage to dive into the archives, but I did find an image dating from 2009 (coincidentally on the second day the MODIS satellite images could be viewed online, March 19th):

And not a single GW "computer Model" factors in these rivers....same thing in the Canadian Arctic, neither are the Nelson, or any of the other rivers that drain into the arctic..:

Rivers Flowing Into the Arctic Ocean


Mackenzie River (to head of Finlay River) 4 241 1 805 200 9 700
Peace River (to head of Finlay River) 1 923 302 500 not available
Smoky River 492 51 300 375
Finlay River 402 43 000 600
Parsnip River 231 20 300 370
Athabasca River 1 231 95 300 not available
Pembina River 547 12 900 not available
Liard River 1 115 277 100 not available
South Nahanni River 563 36 300 not available
Fort Nelson River (to head of Sikanni Chief River) 517 55 900 not available
Petitot River 404 23 200 not available
Hay River 702 48 200 not available
Peel River (to head of Ogilvie River) 684 73 600 not available
Arctic Red River 499 23 200 not available
Slave River (from mouth of Peace River to Great Slave Lake 415 616 400 not available
Fond du Lac River (from outlet of Wollaston Lake) 277 66 800
Back River (to outlet of Muskox Lake) 974 106 500 not available
Coppermine River 845 not available not available
Anderson River 692 not available not available
Horton River 618 not available not available


Rivers Flowing Into Hudson Bay, James Bay or Ungava Bay
Nelson River (to head of Bow River) 2 575 892 300 2 370
Nelson River (from outlet of Lake Winnipeg to mouth) 644 802 900 not available
South Saskatchewan River (to head of Bow River) 1 939 Can.: 334 100
US: 1 800
Total: 335 900 700
Saskatchewan (to head of Bow River) 1 392 Can.: 144 300
US: 1 800
Total: 146 100 280
Red Deer River [AB] 724 45 100 70
Bow River 587 26 200 not available
Oldman River 362 26 700 95
North Saskatchewan River 1 287 122 800 245
Battle River (to head of Pigeon Lake) 570 30 300 10
Red River (to head of Sheyenne River) 877 Can.: 138 600
US: 148 900
Total: 287 500 not available
Assiniboine River 1 070 Can.: 160 600
US: 21 400
Total: 182 000 45
Winnipeg River (to head of Firesteel River) 813 Can.: 106 500
US: 29 300
Total: 135 800 not available
English River 615 52 300 not available
Fairford River (to head of Red Deer River [MB, SK])
Churchill River (to head of Churchill Lake) 1 609 281 300 1 200
Beaver River (to outlet of Beaver Lake)
Thelon River 904 142 400 840
Dubawnt River 842 57 500 not available
Kazan River (to head of Ennadai Lake) 732 71 500 540
Moose River (to head of Mattagami River) 547 108 500 1 370
Abitibi River (to head of Lac Loïs) 547 29 500 not available
Mattagami River (to head of Lake Minissinakwa) 443 37 000 not available
Missinaibi River 426 23 500 not available

Just take 1, for ex. the Nelson= average of 2 370 cubic meters per second, just to the head of Bow river...

To put this into thermodynamic perspective...

The caloric content of 1 cubic meter of water = 1 000 000 calories per cubic meter
So in just a single second the Nelson alone dumps at ~ 10 deg Temp ~ 20 370 000 000 cal`s per second into the Hudson Bay...

Take air, at +10 deg Celsius warm enough to melt ice, Im sure even the morons know that..but this is what I`m sure they don`t know..
But You do, because You are a pilot, Youl`d know what the "gorund roll effect is" the turbulence which extends up to 500 feet above Gound level...above that You just have wind, but that`s air that did not contact the ground

We have to stay with metric and I`ll use 200 meters which is 600 feet...as You shall soon see we can easily afford to give away 100 feet...
because just what the Nelson River alone dumps into the Hudson Bay as far as heat energy is concerned would equate to a 4 kmh Wind, and a swath of over 42 kilometers wide of 10 deg C warm air...


Now add up all the rivers that drain in Canada into the arctic sea + all the Siberian rivers and then You get a rough handle on how idiotic these "GW computer climate models" really are...

All these rivers add up to way more effect than "record temperatures in the arctic" could possibly have...

Every scientist who knows how arctic ice "melts" has been saying the same thing in so many words all along...the bulk of the ice is not melted from the top by "war air" but is dissolved from underneath by the underlying water, and that the Ozone "layer" is just a mathematical value expressing Dobson Units, not how Ozone actually exists, or the fictive "Ozone Hole" in a Dobson Unit mathematical alogorthm"


In any of these moronic "GW Climate models" that has warm air "melting ice" from the top ice bergs would not roll over either... pigs could fly and the Ozone concentration units Dobson Units have an "Ozone Hole"


Of course after the 2 morons here read "what nobody reads" they might have realized, that they better go back and edit every post they made in this forum about their "Ozone Holes"


Reading the comments to a video of an ice berg rolling over you realize how many people are sooo stupid...and that`s the only thing GW computer models have assessed correctly, and in fact rely on it..:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dvwuUxDgKw]YouTube - Death of an Iceberg as it rolls and breaks up, Antarctica[/ame]

Amazing to watch... why do they topple? does the top become heavier than the bottom as the water eats away at the part touching the water? Or something different? I'd love to see nature at its finest

Yes, it`s amazing just how ******* stupid people can be,,...

The guy who posted that video actually was in the antarctic, although just as a wide eyed tourist...but he had to put the rest of the comments on his "ignore list disabling all comments...
I know why, believe You me...I`ve been in the arctic most of my professional life and 2 retards, both have never been outside their "Dorf" are trying to tell me what`s up there and what not

here is a more spectacular ice berg roll off the Greenland coast:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlqY9fcYNX4&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlqY9fcYNX4&feature=related[/ame]

By tyhe way I`ld not call anybody a moron or stupid who did not know how Dobson units are defined, because that isn`t exactly common knowledge and although people with a degree in Physics or Chemistry should know, there are a lot who don`t know that either...

But once You look it up and after that You still insist there is such a thing like an Ozone Hole in the REAL world, then I`l call this person a retard

The Dobson unit (DU) is a unit of measurement of atmospheric ozone columnar density, which would be a theoretical Ozone layer 10 MICRO-meters thick @ a standard temperature 0f ) deg Celsius & and @ pressure (760 Torr)
One Dobson Unit is 2.69×1016 ozone molecules per square centimeter, or 2.69×1020 per square meter or 0.0015 milli-moles of Ozone/ (1m^2)

This measurement has not been invented by "climatologists" they`d be way too retarded to carry out any kind of spectroscopy themselves, be that Infrared or UV spectroscopy...where the Dobson Unit originates from...it`s a vintage way of doing spectroscopy...and from a time when we did not have mono-chromators and photo multipliers, but used spectral band filters to make a "band pass hole" and primitive Wheatstone Resistor balancing to measure the drop of energy at the photo cells

And that`s not how Ozone exists in the REAL world..

The phrase "Ozone Hole" was coined by the fore runner of the IPCC and "Glow Ball science"....they call everything less than 220 DU`s an "OZONE HOLE WHICH WILL KILL YOU AND ME WITH UV RADIATION ===>SKIN CANCER"

And yes probably 999 999 out of a million people actually believe that the Ozone layer has a hole in it

Before Glow Ball "science", Michael Mann & the IPCC came along it used to be that only persons who contributed to the common good and raised the level of mankind`s knowledge were awarded the Nobel Prize...
Now the exact inverse principle is applied

And there is no more need to study science or buy Math-Physics- or Chemistry books since
We have the GORACLE:

 

[RollingThunder]

...................

And there's another meaningless, retarded 'blizzard of bullshit' from ol' PeanutBrain.

The poor delusional cretin actually believes that a "documentary" from the Conservative News Service represents a better source of accurate information about the state of Arctic ice than reports from the scientific agencies that monitor and study the Arctic. LOLOLOLOL....just shows how far out in rightwingnut la-la land ol' PeanutBrain really is.

 

[IanC]

...................

And there's another meaningless, retarded 'blizzard of bullshit' from ol' PeanutBrain.

The poor delusional cretin actually believes that a "documentary" from the Conservative News Service represents a better source of accurate information about the state of Arctic ice than reports from the scientific agencies that monitor and study the Arctic. LOLOLOLOL....just shows how far out in rightwingnut la-la land ol' PeanutBrain really is.

hahahaha. PolarBear is kryptonite to insulated academic spin because he only believes things that make sense to him. He may be arrogant and long winded but more importantly, he is competent. I'm not saying he is right all the time but he always bases his opinions on his personal knowledge and experience rather than just kowtowing to the bloviation of a Prof X. If you need to get something done, it is very helpful to have people like PolarBear in your community.

 

[RollingThunder]

...................

And there's another meaningless, retarded 'blizzard of bullshit' from ol' PeanutBrain.

The poor delusional cretin actually believes that a "documentary" from the Conservative News Service represents a better source of accurate information about the state of Arctic ice than reports from the scientific agencies that monitor and study the Arctic. LOLOLOLOL....just shows how far out in rightwingnut la-la land ol' PeanutBrain really is.

hahahaha. PolarBear is kryptonite to insulated academic spin because he only believes things that make sense to him. He may be arrogant and long winded but more importantly, he is competent. I'm not saying he is right all the time but he always bases his opinions on his personal knowledge and experience rather than just kowtowing to the bloviation of a Prof X. If you need to get something done, it is very helpful to have people like PolarBear in your community.

Nope, PeanutBrain is a joke to anyone with any intelligence or scientific education. A really, really bad joke. He isn't "competent" enough to shine the shoes of a real scientist. He posts long, ridiculous rants filled with stupid misinformation and idiotic pictures that are, I guess, "based on his opinions" all right. Unfortunately he is an idiot and his "opinions" aren't worth a cup of warm spit. No surprise that you would think he makes sense though, since you're about as as much of a clueless idiot as he is.

 

[polarbear]

...................

And there's another meaningless, retarded 'blizzard of bullshit' from ol' PeanutBrain.

The poor delusional cretin actually believes that a "documentary" from the Conservative News Service represents a better source of accurate information about the state of Arctic ice than reports from the scientific agencies that monitor and study the Arctic. LOLOLOLOL....just shows how far out in rightwingnut la-la land ol' PeanutBrain really is.

hahahaha. PolarBear is kryptonite to insulated academic spin because he only believes things that make sense to him. He may be arrogant and long winded but more importantly, he is competent. I'm not saying he is right all the time but he always bases his opinions on his personal knowledge and experience rather than just kowtowing to the bloviation of a Prof X. If you need to get something done, it is very helpful to have people like PolarBear in your community.

Hi IanC.
Your statement about me being arrogant sadly enough is true. Again that is one of the negative character traits I picked up over the years in the service..where You are being advised that "familiarity breeds contempt"
And that goes 2 ways. I do have a lot of contempt and intolerance to liars.
If someone, not knowing better just repeats a lie that is something entirely different from creating a lie with the intent to spread it. This is the point when the gloves come off !
And anyone who takes the trouble as You for example and reads up on the scientific principles involved with this particular subject does realize that these "policy making studies" violate not just about every law of Math-Physics & Chemistry but also every bit of the low standards we have today of what is morally right or wrong.
I did not label these "studies" as studies that have the sole intent to create policy rather than insight, GW "science" states that in the abstract for almost every "report" they file with the IPCC...
And then we have, as I can see in Your quote people who are dumb enough to realize what the meaning of "synthesizing data "...+ "policy making" adds up to labeling the CBC or the BBC of all things a "Conservative News Service" .....

You get the strangest reactions from con artists, liars and pretenders when they get confronted with their lies, or the con gets busted...and even more so when the myth they believed gets busted.
In some countries they still stone people that question how their prophet rode almost 1000 klicks in one night on a magic horse to Jerusalem...
Of course now I morally owe to list every other popular cultural here as well , else I`m an "anti" this or "anti that-", but I `m not here in this forum to polish a public image.

So I`ll just pick one more, the Glow Ball culture and the magic horses this "science" rides that can make out of a 1000 millimeter detection limit a 0.4 millimeter detection limit by "averaging"...or have "Ozone holes" hovering over our heads

I am fully aware that the truth can be very hurtful and I have no problem to admit that I rather enjoy applying this kind of torture on people who richly deserve it...

So if all these News Services in all these countries that aired this documentary are "Conservative News Services" that would by the same definition make a fringe element out of every thing else.
I doubt very much that a person who makes a retarded statement like that, knew the BBC or the CBC even existed....See... that`s exactly what happens if You fall into the "Ozone Hole"...now the horizon is as limited as it is for the frog in the well
People who fell for that will never get out of it again by digging themselves in even deeper...
So why not have a little fun with that..?

 

[Old Rocks]

Now BiPolar, believe me, you don't have to worry about polishing your image. That is beyond redemption. You and Kooky, a real pair to draw to.

 

[IanC]

intelligent people, especially in the insulated confines of academia, take great joy in thinking up crazy ideas and finding imaginative ways of supporting them. of course scientists are supposed to take Feynman's cargo cult advice to make sure they dont fool themselves (the easiest person to fool).

unfortunately the developement of technologies and the vagarities of climate change have coincidentally combined to bolster the case of AGW, especially in the 90's. Thermometers became common at the end of the Little Ice Age so temps pretty much had to go up. Satellites became common just as the last cooling period ended so temps pretty much had to go up. aerosols, volcanoes and an erratic sun gave lots of room to adjust things. decadal ocean currents arent as sexy to the media as blaming man's sin in the form of CO2 production. calm boring science is ignored but catastrophic predictions get press coverage and more funding. anyone who knows a lawyer or a university professor understands that facts are only a portion of the debate. we are in an era of the 'Emperor Has No Clothes' because a lot of climate scientists have been shading their findings in one direction for a long time. like any other type of bubble sooner or later we are going to have a market correction. the last decade's worth of ocean measurements would appear to be the prick that is coming soon.

 

[westwall]

And there's another meaningless, retarded 'blizzard of bullshit' from ol' PeanutBrain.

The poor delusional cretin actually believes that a "documentary" from the Conservative News Service represents a better source of accurate information about the state of Arctic ice than reports from the scientific agencies that monitor and study the Arctic. LOLOLOLOL....just shows how far out in rightwingnut la-la land ol' PeanutBrain really is.

hahahaha. PolarBear is kryptonite to insulated academic spin because he only believes things that make sense to him. He may be arrogant and long winded but more importantly, he is competent. I'm not saying he is right all the time but he always bases his opinions on his personal knowledge and experience rather than just kowtowing to the bloviation of a Prof X. If you need to get something done, it is very helpful to have people like PolarBear in your community.

Hi IanC.
Your statement about me being arrogant sadly enough is true. Again that is one of the negative character traits I picked up over the years in the service..where You are being advised that "familiarity breeds contempt"
And that goes 2 ways. I do have a lot of contempt and intolerance to liars.
If someone, not knowing better just repeats a lie that is something entirely different from creating a lie with the intent to spread it. This is the point when the gloves come off !
And anyone who takes the trouble as You for example and reads up on the scientific principles involved with this particular subject does realize that these "policy making studies" violate not just about every law of Math-Physics & Chemistry but also every bit of the low standards we have today of what is morally right or wrong.
I did not label these "studies" as studies that have the sole intent to create policy rather than insight, GW "science" states that in the abstract for almost every "report" they file with the IPCC...
And then we have, as I can see in Your quote people who are dumb enough to realize what the meaning of "synthesizing data "...+ "policy making" adds up to labeling the CBC or the BBC of all things a "Conservative News Service" .....

You get the strangest reactions from con artists, liars and pretenders when they get confronted with their lies, or the con gets busted...and even more so when the myth they believed gets busted.
In some countries they still stone people that question how their prophet rode almost 1000 klicks in one night on a magic horse to Jerusalem...
Of course now I morally owe to list every other popular cultural here as well , else I`m an "anti" this or "anti that-", but I `m not here in this forum to polish a public image.

So I`ll just pick one more, the Glow Ball culture and the magic horses this "science" rides that can make out of a 1000 millimeter detection limit a 0.4 millimeter detection limit by "averaging"...or have "Ozone holes" hovering over our heads

I am fully aware that the truth can be very hurtful and I have no problem to admit that I rather enjoy applying this kind of torture on people who richly deserve it...

So if all these News Services in all these countries that aired this documentary are "Conservative News Services" that would by the same definition make a fringe element out of every thing else.
I doubt very much that a person who makes a retarded statement like that, knew the BBC or the CBC even existed....See... that`s exactly what happens if You fall into the "Ozone Hole"...now the horizon is as limited as it is for the frog in the well
People who fell for that will never get out of it again by digging themselves in even deeper...
So why not have a little fun with that..?

The difference my friend is you've earned the right to be arrogant. It is a hard earned right but once accomplished you should enjoy it! I do! But only against those who truly deserve it!

 

[IanC]

hahahaha. PolarBear is kryptonite to insulated academic spin because he only believes things that make sense to him. He may be arrogant and long winded but more importantly, he is competent. I'm not saying he is right all the time but he always bases his opinions on his personal knowledge and experience rather than just kowtowing to the bloviation of a Prof X. If you need to get something done, it is very helpful to have people like PolarBear in your community.

Hi IanC.
Your statement about me being arrogant sadly enough is true. Again that is one of the negative character traits I picked up over the years in the service..where You are being advised that "familiarity breeds contempt"
And that goes 2 ways. I do have a lot of contempt and intolerance to liars.
If someone, not knowing better just repeats a lie that is something entirely different from creating a lie with the intent to spread it. This is the point when the gloves come off !
And anyone who takes the trouble as You for example and reads up on the scientific principles involved with this particular subject does realize that these "policy making studies" violate not just about every law of Math-Physics & Chemistry but also every bit of the low standards we have today of what is morally right or wrong.
I did not label these "studies" as studies that have the sole intent to create policy rather than insight, GW "science" states that in the abstract for almost every "report" they file with the IPCC...
And then we have, as I can see in Your quote people who are dumb enough to realize what the meaning of "synthesizing data "...+ "policy making" adds up to labeling the CBC or the BBC of all things a "Conservative News Service" .....

You get the strangest reactions from con artists, liars and pretenders when they get confronted with their lies, or the con gets busted...and even more so when the myth they believed gets busted.
In some countries they still stone people that question how their prophet rode almost 1000 klicks in one night on a magic horse to Jerusalem...
Of course now I morally owe to list every other popular cultural here as well , else I`m an "anti" this or "anti that-", but I `m not here in this forum to polish a public image.

So I`ll just pick one more, the Glow Ball culture and the magic horses this "science" rides that can make out of a 1000 millimeter detection limit a 0.4 millimeter detection limit by "averaging"...or have "Ozone holes" hovering over our heads

I am fully aware that the truth can be very hurtful and I have no problem to admit that I rather enjoy applying this kind of torture on people who richly deserve it...

So if all these News Services in all these countries that aired this documentary are "Conservative News Services" that would by the same definition make a fringe element out of every thing else.
I doubt very much that a person who makes a retarded statement like that, knew the BBC or the CBC even existed....See... that`s exactly what happens if You fall into the "Ozone Hole"...now the horizon is as limited as it is for the frog in the well
People who fell for that will never get out of it again by digging themselves in even deeper...
So why not have a little fun with that..?

The difference my friend is you've earned the right to be arrogant. It is a hard earned right but once accomplished you should enjoy it! I do! But only against those who truly deserve it!

exactly. it would be interesting to find out how many prancing progressives have pee'd a little bit in their drawers when he called them out on their BS in person.

 

[RollingThunder]

................

exactly. it would be interesting to find out how many prancing progressives have pee'd a little bit in their drawers when he called them out on their BS in person.

The only time anybody might ever have "pee'd a little bit in their drawers" over the nonsense and pointless drivel you three clowns post is when someone might have laughed a bit too hard.

 

[westwall]

exactly. it would be interesting to find out how many prancing progressives have pee'd a little bit in their drawers when he called them out on their BS in person.

The only time anybody might ever have "pee'd a little bit in their drawers" over the nonsense and pointless drivel you three clowns post is when someone might have laughed a bit too hard.

No, what's really funny is your pathetic attempts to make us leave by behaving like a beligerent twerp. Worked for you on the school ground when you were robbing the poor small kids of their lunch money but it doesn't work with adults sonny. BTW, stop editing my posts!

 

[RollingThunder]

exactly. it would be interesting to find out how many prancing progressives have pee'd a little bit in their drawers when he called them out on their BS in person.

The only time anybody might ever have "pee'd a little bit in their drawers" over the nonsense and pointless drivel you three clowns post is when someone might have laughed a bit too hard.

No, what's really funny is your pathetic attempts to make us leave by behaving like a beligerent twerp. Worked for you on the school ground when you were robbing the poor small kids of their lunch money but it doesn't work with adults sonny. BTW, stop editing my posts!

LOLOLOLOL....I guess this is your last resort when all of your nonsense gets refuted. Sobbing in terror and threating to leave 'cause someone is mean. Grow up junior. "If you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen."

And sea levels are still rising....

 

[IanC]

the tide gauge data from a recent journal paper show no acceleration.

one thing I think many people dont realize is that sea level change is not the same in every part of the world.

new and presumably better technology shows an increased rate during the last warming period but it is flattening out since the ocean temps have gone flat as well.

the cry of "ocean sea level rise is accelerating" that we all have heard proclaimed as fact in the media is not exactly as advertised.

 

[RollingThunder]

the tide gauge data from a recent journal paper show no acceleration.

one thing I think many people dont realize is that sea level change is not the same in every part of the world.

new and presumably better technology shows an increased rate during the last warming period but it is flattening out since the ocean temps have gone flat as well.

the cry of "ocean sea level rise is accelerating" that we all have heard proclaimed as fact in the media is not exactly as advertised.

The limitations (small set of tide gauges only around US coastline) of the tide gauge study cited in the OP have already been discussed.

Anyone who has looked into this issue knows that sea level changes vary geographically for a variety of reasons. One is that in some places the coastline, the land itself, is either rising or sinking slightly, independent of the sea levels. For example, Alaska is rising a bit as the weight of the ice is removed.

Look at just the left half of the graph and draw a straight line through the blue line, then do the same for the right hand half of the graph. Notice a difference between the angle of the two lines? That's the increase in sea level rise in the last half century.

Figure 1: Global corrected tidal station data (Church 2006 updated to 2009-dark blue, and Jevrejeva 2008- red)


Have "ocean temperatures gone flat"? Or did a strong El Nino bring colder temperatures to the surface last year?

NOAA: 2010 Tied For Warmest Year on Record
January 12, 2011

Global ocean surface temperatures for 2010 tied with 2005 as the third warmest on record, at 0.88 F (0.49 C) above the 20th century average. The range of confidence associated with the ocean surface temperature is +/- 0.11 F (+/- 0.06 C).

 

[skookerasbil]

the tide gauge data from a recent journal paper show no acceleration.

one thing I think many people dont realize is that sea level change is not the same in every part of the world.

new and presumably better technology shows an increased rate during the last warming period but it is flattening out since the ocean temps have gone flat as well.

the cry of "ocean sea level rise is accelerating" that we all have heard proclaimed as fact in the media is not exactly as advertised.

The limitations (small set of tide gauges only around US coastline) of the tide gauge study cited in the OP have already been discussed.

Anyone who has looked into this issue knows that sea level changes vary geographically for a variety of reasons. One is that in some places the coastline, the land itself, is either rising or sinking slightly, independent of the sea levels. For example, Alaska is rising a bit as the weight of the ice is removed.

Look at just the left half of the graph and draw a straight line through the blue line, then do the same for the right hand half of the graph. Notice a difference between the angle of the two lines? That's the increase in sea level rise in the last half century.

Figure 1: Global corrected tidal station data (Church 2006 updated to 2009-dark blue, and Jevrejeva 2008- red)


Have "ocean temperatures gone flat"? Or did a strong El Nino bring colder temperatures to the surface last year?

NOAA: 2010 Tied For Warmest Year on Record
January 12, 2011

Global ocean surface temperatures for 2010 tied with 2005 as the third warmest on record, at 0.88 F (0.49 C) above the 20th century average. The range of confidence associated with the ocean surface temperature is +/- 0.11 F (+/- 0.06 C).

and so what s0n??

The folks think the "man-made" part is total BS, so who cares? The k00ks get real proud posting up this stuff, but in the bigger picture, it doesnt add up to a hill of beans.

Senate Democrats Kill Ambitious Climate Legislation - Ecocentric - TIME.com

Kim Strassel: Cap and Trade Is Dead - WSJ.com

Cap-and-Trade Is Dead. Long Live Cap-and-Trade | Patrick J. Michaels | Cato Institute: Commentary