Simple Point Missing in the Union threads

[ConservaDerrps]

seriously?

Yes. Seriously. Here, I have an idea, this will help me decide whether to continue to debate you at all.

Do you believe in evolution? Not intelligent design, not the "theory" of it. Do you believe evolution exists? Just answer that, and I'll be able to tell if I really give a **** what your signature says.

Just because something is simple, doesn't mean it's not right.

Sky is blue. Simple. True.

 

[Oddball]

seriously?

Yes. Seriously. Here, I have an idea, this will help me decide whether to continue to debate you at all.

Do you believe in evolution? Not intelligent design, not the "theory" of it. Do you believe evolution exists? Just answer that, and I'll be able to tell if I really give a **** what your signature says.

Just because something is simple, doesn't mean it's not right.

Sky is blue. Simple. True.

No doubt....You're as simple as they come and couldn't be more wrong if you were paid to be.

 

[Darkwind]

seriously?

Yes. Seriously. Here, I have an idea, this will help me decide whether to continue to debate you at all.

Do you believe in evolution? Not intelligent design, not the "theory" of it. Do you believe evolution exists? Just answer that, and I'll be able to tell if I really give a **** what your signature says.

Just because something is simple, doesn't mean it's not right.

Sky is blue. Simple. True.

Changing the subject? Not good form as it opens up the weakness in your ability to debate and think critically.

Try this. The sky IS blue. Do you even know why?

Try this: Google

 

[Charles_Main]

Why We Need Unions

If you've ever asked for a raise at work, you should understand the concept of leverage: to the extent that your employer needs you, you have it, and you're able to get something (increased wages) for it; to the extent that your employer considers you replaceable, you lack it, and therefore have no way to improve your own position. In the retail and service industries, employees lack leverage almost by definition. Anyone who makes trouble can simply be tossed out and replaced. Unions give those employees leverage. That leverage is a means to a fair wage. Not an outrageous, outsized wage; a fair wage. Any union that bankrupts the parent company is a failure, because all the union members end up unemployed. It is in the interest of unions to achieve the best possible conditions for workers that still allow the company to flourish. A union does not throw off the balance of power in the workplace—lack of a union does.

Large corporations are machines designed to make money for shareholders. They do it well. To expect them to do anything but minimize wages and maximize profit is to misunderstand their nature. The most basic sense of decency and respect for human rights dictates that there must be some mechanism by which the workers—the humans—can assert their interests. Otherwise they will be crushed by the machine. It's all very plain to see.

A farmer who had a quarrelsome family called his sons and told them to lay a bunch of sticks before him.

Then, after laying the sticks parallel to one another and binding them, he challenged his sons, one after one, to pick up the bundle and break it.

They all tried, but in vain.

Then, untying the bundle, he gave them the sticks to break one by one. This they did with the greatest ease.

Then said the father, "Thus, my sons, as long as you remain united, you are a match for anything, but differ and separate, and you are undone."

Take two posts and make one a bundle of sticks and the other one stick. Which do you think will be strongest?

Stop Buying into the Democrat Talking Point that anyone that is not with them, Wants to Abolish All unions.

Simply not the Truth. Most of us Fully support Unions in the Private Sector. Where the people negotiating with Are Profit Motivated Companies, and not the Easily bought Appointees of Union Friendly Politicians.

We Owe A lot to Unions, and should never seek to see them Gone. However, Even FDR himself understood that The Public Sector was a Different Story.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

If you advocate for government to help people, you are beyond a heartless, soulless creep....Your a sadist with a mean streak in you.

Oh, the "Government is evil and ***** everything up so why try?" motto of modern Conservatism.

I'm down with people caring for themselves, by working to further their own lot in life. This leads to things like a better life, a job that pays for the necessity in life and maybe a little more. I'm down with people who want more, being willing to work that full time job, and go to school full time and improve their skills and ability, which leads to better jobs, and maybe a wife and children, and money to invest for retirement and college for their kids.

Trying to lump everyone on assistance programs into one group is stupid. There are a million reasons people need government help. And I just hope and pray that one day you're in the position to need it, and one of your NeoCon friends is there to remind you to just "tough it out" a little bit more.

I am not down with worthless excuses for people who want to whine, and ***** and complain, "Oh woe is Me, My dad beat me, My mom is a crack whore, and so I just don't try and give up on school and looking to make My life better./QUOTE]

Right. Because why try to comfort those who need it.

Again, you're the creep. You're the sadist. You're the asshole. You get that right? That when people say, "Quit whining! Life isn't fair! Get over it!" you're being an asshole. You should just own it; most Conservatives do. Why are you trying to position yourself as the compassionate ones? You're clearly not.

You want compassion? Then help them to better themselves, not give them enslavement to a heartless government.

Life requires participation.

I agree. Standing on the sidelines and watching people lose their homes, health and lives because they can't afford health care, for instance, is not participating.

If you don't want to participate or try, why should I give a **** about you, if you don't give a **** about yourself.

Typical conservative. You don't want government to help anyone...until you need help.

 

[Oddball]

I agree. Standing on the sidelines and watching people lose their homes, health and lives because they can't afford health care, for instance, is not participating.

Wanting gubmint to stay in its box isn't "standing on the sidelines", dipschitt.

What, are you about 14 years old?

 

[ConservaDerrps]

seriously?

Yes. Seriously. Here, I have an idea, this will help me decide whether to continue to debate you at all.

Do you believe in evolution? Not intelligent design, not the "theory" of it. Do you believe evolution exists? Just answer that, and I'll be able to tell if I really give a **** what your signature says.

Just because something is simple, doesn't mean it's not right.

Sky is blue. Simple. True.

Changing the subject? Not good form as it opens up the weakness in your ability to debate and think critically.

Try this. The sky IS blue. Do you even know why?

Try this: Google

Hey, idiot, I wasn't looking to get into the reasons why it appears blue to us. I too had chemistry and biology classes in High School and I paid attention. I was using it as a metaphor, but you already knew that.

Seriously, I'm not interested in debate with anyone that in this century doesn't accept evolution as fact. It speaks to me of a major shortcoming of their intellectual prowess. So if you don't believe in it, I don't believe in debating with you.

I know, what an elitist I am.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

I agree. Standing on the sidelines and watching people lose their homes, health and lives because they can't afford health care, for instance, is not participating.

Wanting gubmint to stay in its box isn't "standing on the sidelines", dipschitt.

What, are you about 14 years old?

Anyone who actually uses the word "gubmint" in a political discussion should be automatically sent to the kids table. Forever.

 

[Charles_Main]

seriously?

Yes. Seriously. Here, I have an idea, this will help me decide whether to continue to debate you at all.

Do you believe in evolution? Not intelligent design, not the "theory" of it. Do you believe evolution exists? Just answer that, and I'll be able to tell if I really give a **** what your signature says.

Just because something is simple, doesn't mean it's not right.

Sky is blue. Simple. True.

Me Personally, I am a Science Guy, I believe in Evolution. However I have always thought it was silly that we debate Evolution vs Intelligent Design. The Fact is, the Bible not withstanding (which was of course wrote by Men) it is entirely Plausible that the 2 Could Co Exist. Some sort of Intelligent Being could have set it all in Motion. Who knows.

Don't get me wrong, I think those on the Right who actually believe the world was created in 6 Days, and is only 4000 years old. Are right out of their Minds, But I have always thought that the Bible could simply just be wrong, but not the General Idea of a God who started it all.

After all even Though science is pretty firm on the Big Bang and Evolution and everything after the Big Bang. They still have a real Hard time explaining WTF caused it to begin with. What was before it. etc. Leaving room for them to some day find out a God, or a Bunch of aliens did it.

lol

 

[Charles_Main]

I agree. Standing on the sidelines and watching people lose their homes, health and lives because they can't afford health care, for instance, is not participating.

Wanting gubmint to stay in its box isn't "standing on the sidelines", dipschitt.

What, are you about 14 years old?

Anyone who actually uses the word "gubmint" in a political discussion should be automatically sent to the kids table. Forever.

Attacking someone for the Way they Abbreviate, and Change words for Effect on an Internet Forum seems kinda Petty.

lol

 

[Darkwind]

If you advocate for government to help people, you are beyond a heartless, soulless creep....Your a sadist with a mean streak in you.

Oh, the "Government is evil and ***** everything up so why try?" motto of modern Conservatism.

I'm down with people caring for themselves, by working to further their own lot in life. This leads to things like a better life, a job that pays for the necessity in life and maybe a little more. I'm down with people who want more, being willing to work that full time job, and go to school full time and improve their skills and ability, which leads to better jobs, and maybe a wife and children, and money to invest for retirement and college for their kids.

Trying to lump everyone on assistance programs into one group is stupid. There are a million reasons people need government help. And I just hope and pray that one day you're in the position to need it, and one of your NeoCon friends is there to remind you to just "tough it out" a little bit more.

I am not down with worthless excuses for people who want to whine, and ***** and complain, "Oh woe is Me, My dad beat me, My mom is a crack whore, and so I just don't try and give up on school and looking to make My life better./QUOTE]

Right. Because why try to comfort those who need it.

Again, you're the creep. You're the sadist. You're the asshole. You get that right? That when people say, "Quit whining! Life isn't fair! Get over it!" you're being an asshole. You should just own it; most Conservatives do. Why are you trying to position yourself as the compassionate ones? You're clearly not.





I agree. Standing on the sidelines and watching people lose their homes, health and lives because they can't afford health care, for instance, is not participating.

If you don't want to participate or try, why should I give a **** about you, if you don't give a **** about yourself.

Typical conservative. You don't want government to help anyone...until you need help.

Government is a necessary evil, but requires restriction to enumerated powers and nothing more. The credo of every American should be, free from government. At least, the thinking ones.

There are millions of people on assistance. And you see nothing wrong with that? NOTHING AT ALL? There are people who will DIE if they do not get government assistance. Just how beholden are to a government that holds you enslaved for your very life, if they do not intervene? How can anyone not look at that without horror? My God, how heartless and cruel is it to totally subjugate someone for their very existence? Yet you want to call Me an asshole, a sadist. When you learn right from the very beginning in life that life is not fair, and that no one owes you anything, you tend to be very motivated to survive. That is what it takes to live in this world. Motivation to survive. Hell, it is how you get rich..

Now, lets take one last look at how fucked in the head you are.....People standing on the sidelines, houses gone, bills so high they cannot possibly pay for them all, and you want government to take MY hard earned taxes and give it to them.....those who fucked up on their own.....those who made their own choices and lost......and you claim I'm standing on the sidelines?

I own My home.. I have bills I can afford....and I had all that long before 08.

I've never needed government to help me live, or make me happy, or provide for me.

I participate.

So, get it right. Your the en-slaver, the sadist, the ******* overseer with the whip, forcing fewer and fewer people to pay for more and more of the services that government does not have the authority to provide.

I just wonder what you will tell yourself when government collapses and cannot provide for those people you think need caring for.. There are going to be a lot of deaths in this country.....because of visions like yours.

 

[Oddball]

Wanting gubmint to stay in its box isn't "standing on the sidelines", dipschitt.

What, are you about 14 years old?

Anyone who actually uses the word "gubmint" in a political discussion should be automatically sent to the kids table. Forever.

Attacking someone for the Way they Abbreviate, and Change words for Effect on an Internet Forum seems kinda Petty.

lol

Even more so when used as a cheap excuse to gloss over his glaring flaws in "reasoning", for lack of a better term.

 

[Darkwind]

Yes. Seriously. Here, I have an idea, this will help me decide whether to continue to debate you at all.

Do you believe in evolution? Not intelligent design, not the "theory" of it. Do you believe evolution exists? Just answer that, and I'll be able to tell if I really give a **** what your signature says.

Just because something is simple, doesn't mean it's not right.

Sky is blue. Simple. True.

Changing the subject? Not good form as it opens up the weakness in your ability to debate and think critically.

Try this. The sky IS blue. Do you even know why?

Try this: Google

Hey, idiot, I wasn't looking to get into the reasons why it appears blue to us. I too had chemistry and biology classes in High School and I paid attention. I was using it as a metaphor, but you already knew that.

Seriously, I'm not interested in debate with anyone that in this century doesn't accept evolution as fact. It speaks to me of a major shortcoming of their intellectual prowess. So if you don't believe in it, I don't believe in debating with you.

I know, what an elitist I am.

Wow, it has nothing to do with biology or chemistry. LMAO.......

Perhaps you should use metaphors that you understand then.

So far, I've not been impressed by your alleged 'intellectual prowess'......I never said I didn't believe in it.....but I doubt you've thought it through enough to fully understand the implications of it, or even why we are able to study it.

Since you seem to want to enslave people to government, toe the government education line and cannot seem to even keep up with your metaphors, I don't believe in debating you will accomplish much. It has managed to kill some time I needed to kill and thanks for the entertainment.

 

[Darkwind]

seriously?

Yes. Seriously. Here, I have an idea, this will help me decide whether to continue to debate you at all.

Do you believe in evolution? Not intelligent design, not the "theory" of it. Do you believe evolution exists? Just answer that, and I'll be able to tell if I really give a **** what your signature says.

Just because something is simple, doesn't mean it's not right.

Sky is blue. Simple. True.

Me Personally, I am a Science Guy, I believe in Evolution. However I have always thought it was silly that we debate Evolution vs Intelligent Design. The Fact is, the Bible not withstanding (which was of course wrote by Men) it is entirely Plausible that the 2 Could Co Exist. Some sort of Intelligent Being could have set it all in Motion. Who knows.

Don't get me wrong, I think those on the Right who actually believe the world was created in 6 Days, and is only 4000 years old. Are right out of their Minds, But I have always thought that the Bible could simply just be wrong, but not the General Idea of a God who started it all.

After all even Though science is pretty firm on the Big Bang and Evolution and everything after the Big Bang. They still have a real Hard time explaining WTF caused it to begin with. What was before it. etc. Leaving room for them to some day find out a God, or a Bunch of aliens did it.

lol

I'm a believer in the first mover theory as expounded on by Aristotle, but more importantly, any deity that could create everything, would of necessity, have to create a framework for that existence. And that framework is observable, measurable, and can be thought upon.

But that is a whole different argument completely and off topic for this thread.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Changing the subject? Not good form as it opens up the weakness in your ability to debate and think critically.

Try this. The sky IS blue. Do you even know why?

Try this: Google

Hey, idiot, I wasn't looking to get into the reasons why it appears blue to us. I too had chemistry and biology classes in High School and I paid attention. I was using it as a metaphor, but you already knew that.

Seriously, I'm not interested in debate with anyone that in this century doesn't accept evolution as fact. It speaks to me of a major shortcoming of their intellectual prowess. So if you don't believe in it, I don't believe in debating with you.

I know, what an elitist I am.

Wow, it has nothing to do with biology or chemistry. LMAO.......

Perhaps you should use metaphors that you understand then.

So far, I've not been impressed by your alleged 'intellectual prowess'......I never said I didn't believe in it.....but I doubt you've thought it through enough to fully understand the implications of it, or even why we are able to study it.

Since you seem to want to enslave people to government, toe the government education line and cannot seem to even keep up with your metaphors, I don't believe in debating you will accomplish much. It has managed to kill some time I needed to kill and thanks for the entertainment.

Yes. You're right. I want to enslave people to the government. And you want to enslave them to Corporate America...or just condemn them to die. Because that's better than taking assistance, right?

Christ.

And please, enlighten me, why does the sky appear blue, exactly?

I already explained to why I care if you believe in evolution. It speaks to whether you can accept universal fact or not.

 

[JoeB131]

Public/Private Unions = Apples & Oranges. I'm ok with you wanting to give a sizeable portion of your paycheck to corrupt Union Bosses and Big Brother. That's your call. Just don't force others to. I'm a bit flexible when it comes to Private Sector Unions. But Public Unions should be abolished. Their time has now passed.

A couple of points here.

A public sector union exists for exactly the same reason private ones do- to make sure they are getting paid fairly and not abused by their employer.

You must not be old enough to remember what happened before Public Sector unions. Where government professionals who had jobs for years were booted out of their jobs and replaced by the idiot cousins of alderman when elections changed parties in charge.

TFB...Who says being a bureaucrat should be a cushy lifetime job?

No one. Nor should it be at the whims of political bosses. I lived in Chicago Pre-Shakman decree where their party work was more important than their real jobs.

I think an employer should be able to fire you with cause. But he should also be able to make his case. I've seen a person fired because she was a lesbian, I was fired once from a job because I ran up too many medical bills (even though I paid for the top-flight insurance).

In a perfect world where perfect people were managers, we wouldn't need unions. Absolutely. We don't live in that world. Unions are an imperfect solution to an imperfect problem.

 

[Darkwind]

Hey, idiot, I wasn't looking to get into the reasons why it appears blue to us. I too had chemistry and biology classes in High School and I paid attention. I was using it as a metaphor, but you already knew that.

Seriously, I'm not interested in debate with anyone that in this century doesn't accept evolution as fact. It speaks to me of a major shortcoming of their intellectual prowess. So if you don't believe in it, I don't believe in debating with you.

I know, what an elitist I am.

Wow, it has nothing to do with biology or chemistry. LMAO.......

Perhaps you should use metaphors that you understand then.

So far, I've not been impressed by your alleged 'intellectual prowess'......I never said I didn't believe in it.....but I doubt you've thought it through enough to fully understand the implications of it, or even why we are able to study it.

Since you seem to want to enslave people to government, toe the government education line and cannot seem to even keep up with your metaphors, I don't believe in debating you will accomplish much. It has managed to kill some time I needed to kill and thanks for the entertainment.

Yes. You're right. I want to enslave people to the government. And you want to enslave them to Corporate America...or just condemn them to die. Because that's better than taking assistance, right?

Christ.

And please, enlighten me, why does the sky appear blue, exactly?

I already explained to why I care if you believe in evolution. It speaks to whether you can accept universal fact or not.

Universal fact? Bwwwahahahhhahahahaaaa...

BTW....No one is enslaved to corporate America. That is the kind of poorly thought out response I've come to expect from the left.

Do you even know what a company is? I'll give you a hint. It has no evil designs against people. It provides a need to society. It has no power over anyone.

Government has real power. They have guns and people willing to force you to follow their dictates. Companies do not. Government has the authority to take your freedom from you and lock you away. Companies do not.

Companies do not force people to be dependent upon them Government does.

I can go on, but I think I probably lost you when I said something you don't agree with. Its the sure sign of a liberal. It closes their minds and turns them into hate machines. Have a nice life.

 

[rdean]

Only 10% of all American workers even belong to a union.

Republicans believe in "prosperity through lower wages". Oh, and they think education is for "snobs".

 

[Darkwind]

Only 10% of all American workers even belong to a union.

Republicans believe in "prosperity through lower wages". Oh, and they think education is for "snobs".

No, that is what you think they think. Republicans think no such thing. Your mind is twisted and warped by your continuing hatred of all things out of agreement with you.

 

[thereisnospoon]

If you advocate for government to help people, you are beyond a heartless, soulless creep....Your a sadist with a mean streak in you.

Oh, the "Government is evil and ***** everything up so why try?" motto of modern Conservatism.

Trying to lump everyone on assistance programs into one group is stupid. There are a million reasons people need government help. And I just hope and pray that one day you're in the position to need it, and one of your NeoCon friends is there to remind you to just "tough it out" a little bit more.

I am not down with worthless excuses for people who want to whine, and ***** and complain, "Oh woe is Me, My dad beat me, My mom is a crack whore, and so I just don't try and give up on school and looking to make My life better./QUOTE]

Right. Because why try to comfort those who need it.

Again, you're the creep. You're the sadist. You're the asshole. You get that right? That when people say, "Quit whining! Life isn't fair! Get over it!" you're being an asshole. You should just own it; most Conservatives do. Why are you trying to position yourself as the compassionate ones? You're clearly not.





I agree. Standing on the sidelines and watching people lose their homes, health and lives because they can't afford health care, for instance, is not participating.

Typical conservative. You don't want government to help anyone...until you need help.

Government is a necessary evil, but requires restriction to enumerated powers and nothing more. The credo of every American should be, free from government. At least, the thinking ones.

There are millions of people on assistance. And you see nothing wrong with that? NOTHING AT ALL? There are people who will DIE if they do not get government assistance. Just how beholden are to a government that holds you enslaved for your very life, if they do not intervene? How can anyone not look at that without horror? My God, how heartless and cruel is it to totally subjugate someone for their very existence? Yet you want to call Me an asshole, a sadist. When you learn right from the very beginning in life that life is not fair, and that no one owes you anything, you tend to be very motivated to survive. That is what it takes to live in this world. Motivation to survive. Hell, it is how you get rich..

Now, lets take one last look at how fucked in the head you are.....People standing on the sidelines, houses gone, bills so high they cannot possibly pay for them all, and you want government to take MY hard earned taxes and give it to them.....those who fucked up on their own.....those who made their own choices and lost......and you claim I'm standing on the sidelines?

I own My home.. I have bills I can afford....and I had all that long before 08.

I've never needed government to help me live, or make me happy, or provide for me.

I participate.

So, get it right. Your the en-slaver, the sadist, the ******* overseer with the whip, forcing fewer and fewer people to pay for more and more of the services that government does not have the authority to provide.

I just wonder what you will tell yourself when government collapses and cannot provide for those people you think need caring for.. There are going to be a lot of deaths in this country.....because of visions like yours.

In response to your last sentence. Precisely what is going on in the Euro-Zone.
The governments of Greece, Portugal and Spain are in the deepest depths of Hell all because of socialism, mandatory government pensions, low retirement age, subsidizing of of business so that workers no matter how useless are retained by the employer....
It's all crashing.