Should we allow other countries to decide whether we go to war?

[PoliticalChic]

Even after they attacked him for his Christian pastor.

You'd better be sitting down when you read this: his 'Christian pastor' was Muslim.

Then, Obama chooses as his spiritual guide, the anti-American pastor-nee-Muslim, Jeremiah Wright.

“Long before Reverend Wright entered the national stage, Ryan Lizza of The New Republic, in the March 19, 2007 issue, dropped this little gem:

Wright was a former Muslim and black nationalist who had studied at Howard and Chicago, and Trinity’s guiding principles–what the church calls the “Black Value System”

The racist paranoia of AIDS being developed by white America to kill blacks and other inexcusable statements are from the same framework of the NOI and Farrakhan. In fact:

In 1984, Wright was one of the inner circle that traveled with Farrakhan to visit Libyan strongman Col. Muammar Khadafy.

…why did Wright’s church put the racist and anti-Semitic Farrakhan on the cover of its magazine Trumpet? Why did Trinity Church post:
a manifesto by Hamas that defended terrorism as legitimate resistance, refused to recognize the right of Israel to exist and compared the terror group’s official charter – which calls for the murder of Jews – to America’s Declaration of Independence[?]


The three points above show a consistent pattern of Wright parroting not only the language and but also the attitude of the Nation of Islam.

The Reverend Wright may no longer be a Muslim, but he clearly embraces Hamas, Minister Farrakhan and others because they dovetail with his established world view, as with other syncretic religions.

Reverend Wright’s hate speeches are a glimpse of someone who has blended Nation of Islam and Black Nationalist Liberation Theology into a subversive Christianity,…”
Jeremiah Wright Was a Muslim: Why That Matters



Now….if Wright is a Christian….as Obama claims to be, too….how to explain this:



“Muslim Brotherhood – Jeremiah Wright Declares that Yahweh is Allah



Jeremiah Wright declares that the God he worships is the same as Allah, the God of the Muslims.”

Muslim Brotherhood – Jeremiah Wright Declares that Yahweh is Allah

Jeremiah Wright declares that the God he worships is the same as Allah, the God of the Muslims. At the same time, Wright is preaching that the God of the “slaver” and “oppressor&#…

stop-obama-now.net

Scrubbed…..Wright claimed God is Allah.


Jr god….call him Mohammad or Jesus

Jeremiah Wright Was a Muslim: Why That Matters

Jeremiah Wright Was a Muslim: Why That Matters

www.freerepublic.com

Malcolm, once he broke with the Nation of Islam, and found that God, or Allah, really does have children that don’t look like you, would be appalled by our buying into a military option as a way to peace, as a way to finding common ground. The Rev. Jeremiah Wright Recalls Obama's Fall From Grace

“Muslim Brotherhood – Jeremiah Wright Declares that Yahweh is Allah​

Obama writes in his book, “Dreams from my Father”, that Wright dabbled in Black Nationalism and Islam in the 1960’s. Black Liberation Theology was inspired by the cult doctrine of the Nation of Islam. Obama was a Muslim as a child in Indonesia and has embraced his ethnic Muslim family in Kenya. “

Muslim Brotherhood – Jeremiah Wright Declares that Yahweh is Allah

Jeremiah Wright declares that the God he worships is the same as Allah, the God of the Muslims. At the same time, Wright is preaching that the God of the “slaver” and “oppressor&#…

stop-obama-now.net

Will you ever realize that everything you've been taught is a lie????

The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. Ronald Reagan.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

it was felt that the greatest threat to Pearl Harbor was from local saboteurs.

In War, You Can't Take Chances. We Have Nothing to Feel Guilty About.

The betrayal by Japanese-Americans in Hawaii was the reason Japanese-Americans in the Mainland were interned.

 

[Circe]

I think you need to read SEVERAL history books.

Yeah. . . . I have read SEVERAL history books and reluctantly, very reluctantly, have to give up the idea that Britain shanghaied us into either WWI or WWII. God knows they certainly tried! Churchill's own accounts of both wars --- that man worked HARD to talk us in. And was perfectly happy with letting the Lusitania be sunk if that would do it -------- it didn't, though. The Lusitania really had nothing to do with our entering the war (only 125 Americans were killed but many more other nationalities).

Nor did the threat to unleash unrestricted submarine warfare against American ships. At the beginning of 1917 Germany SAID they would do that, but they very, very carefully did not.

No, it was the Zimmerman telegram, and the British DID capture it (it was in a suitcase in Baghdad) and decode it ---- very good at decoding, the British. I've read two books on the Zimmerman telegram, where the German foreign minister did indeed tell Mexico Germany would help them recover the entire American Southwest if they would start a war to distract us, this being the crucial time, early spring 1917. It is clear from the sequence of events that Britain then "allowed" Wilson to announce the mess himself, get in front of it, or else. Or else the Brits would announce it, making the administration look like fools. So it hit the papers like a bomb, it was a 9/11-type upset, the whole country rose and next week we were in a declared war against Germany. The foreign minister (Zimmerman, obviously) apologized, but that didn't work.

Same deal with WWII. Britain tried, moved heaven and earth, to get us in: nothing worked till Pearl Harbor and a week later, Hitler being seized with a fit of madness, for no reason anyone understands, declared war on us. Well, lots and lots of countries declare war on us in the normal course of any month, but when a Hitler in full war cry does so, it matters, so there it was, war.


I totally agree we should not go to war for England or for Europe. Ever. But somehow we keep getting dragged in; we're just too big, too important. The enemies decide they'll have to fight us sooner or later, better sooner. They are always wrong, but so far, that's what they've done.

Next war we'll lose, presumably; we've been losing steadily since Korea, after all, and now the country is so divided civil war is more likely than foreign war, and we cannot possibly fight a foreign war.

It was a lot better when America was homogeneous. This diversity stuff is a war-loser as every empire learns.

 

[Circe]

In War, You Can't Take Chances. We Have Nothing to Feel Guilty About.

The betrayal by Japanese-Americans in Hawaii was the reason Japanese-Americans in the Mainland were interned.

No? I thought it was because they had so many spies and they all lived way too near the Pacific Fleet shipyards. I have always thought Japanese internment an excellent precaution and likely one of the reasons we won the war in the Pacific.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Just as an aside, the USA was not dragged into either war if you want accurate history. Both Wilson and Roosevelt wanted to engage, but politics would not allow such intervention. Wilson did it with a long political battle, Roosevelts problems were solved with Pearl Harbor.

Actually, Roosevelt was fighting a war with Germany nearly a year before Pearl Harbor. He was bound and determined to get the US into a declared war with Germany. He first twisted the international neutrality laws into pretzels to allow Cash and Carry, then violated them entirely to allow Lend-Lease and using the US Navy to escort British convoys in a combat zone.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Pavlov wrote that the Soviets feared a Japanese attack

Sour Kraut

Wrong. The military genius, Marshall Zhukov, soundly defeated the Japanese designs on Russia in September, 1939 at Khalkhin Gol in Mongolia. This made Japan attack the United States instead of trying to repeat their overwhelming victory over Russia in 1905.

That battle explodes the myth that Stalin was keeping troops back from fighting the German invasion in order to protect his rear from an attack by Japan. His strategy was to sucker the Germans in by pretending a collapse of his forces, then hit them with his most powerful force when the time was ripe.

 

[Circe]

Actually, Roosevelt was fighting a war with Germany nearly a year before Pearl Harbor. He was bound and determined to get the US into a declared war with Germany. He first twisted the international neutrality laws into pretzels to allow Cash and Carry, then violated them entirely to allow Lend-Lease and using the US Navy to escort British convoys in a combat zone.

Yes, well, lend-lease was certainly bold, very bold.

I suppose similar bold offers and loans and presents of weapons are being made to Ukraine now; makes me wonder, considering your point, whether we ARE trying to get into a war with Russia. They are only 140 million people; maybe we do need to smash them now before they make more trouble. I hadn't thought of it quite that way before, but there is a history.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Japan invaded french indochina and we cut off their natural resources. They bombed us. There were talks between us and japan after we cut off their resources but they failed. FDR was itching to go to war while the people weren't having it.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Absurd.

Your argument is the typically ignorant “Putin is Hitler” oh no! The domino effect oh no! We must fight NOW!

Putin has been in power nearly 20 years. He hasn’t expressed or acted like Hitler. Stop believing MIC propaganda designed to benefit the MIC.

The domino effect was proven false way back in the 1970s, with Vietnam. Please catch up.

Well, let's see, Putin has gone around assassinating his political opponents living in other countries, He has invaded Ukraine, then Georgia, then Ukraine again. Threatened to invade the Baltic states AND Finland. That looks pretty Hitler-like to me. He's certainly a threat to international peace with his thuggery.

 

[Circe]

Japan invaded french indochina and we cut off their natural resources. They bombed us. There were talks between us and japan after we cut off their resources but they failed. FDR was itching to go to war while the people weren't having it.

This whole blockade/sanctions thing early on is very interesting to me given current recourse to sanctions (non-military blockade, is the best definition I've seen for sanctions). Sanctions don't work, given the obvious history: the League of Nations depended on it but it never, never worked. Italy still invaded Ethiopia after severe sanctions, and Putin still invaded Ukraine. The League failed and was disbanded because NOTHING they did worked; of course the United Nations is in the same situation and I wish it would fail and go away, but apparently some people find it useful, who knows what goes on there.

They are trying sanctions again and it's plainly not working again. The record so far shows that sanctions lead to war, inevitably, because they don't work. I'm watching to see what happens this time.

In my opinion, sanctions are nothing but a way to justify war as a "just war." Oh, Thomas Aquinas, you have a lot to answer for.

 

[AZrailwhale]

You are uninformed.

Both Wilson and FDR provoked war.

Read up on Wilson’s many provocations against Germany, particularly the sinking of the Lusitania.

FDR did much the same, provoking Germany and Japan. Read up on his numerous economic and absurd demands against Japan, and his foreknowledge of the coming attack on Pearl Harbor. Allowing him to move out the carriers and his favorite battleship, just prior to the attack.

His moving the US pacific fleet to Pearl was a provocation, but also making it entirely defenseless from air attack. He dismissed the commander of the Pacific Fleet because he opposed the move. He also scapegoated the commanders at Pearl, after the attack. Though he refused to warn them the attack was coming. Nice guy.

Moving the fleet from San Diego to Pearl Harbor wasn't provocation, it was an attempt at intimidation. No one expected the IJN to strike Pearl, it didn't have the ability. Yamamoto had to commandeer almost every modern commercial tanker in the Japanese merchant fleet to enable the strike. Everyone from the code-breakers at Pearl to Naval and Army intelligence expected the IJN to strike at the Philippines. Attacking Pearl wasn't a logical move and violated all the IJN's pre-war planning. Kimmel and Short deserved to be sacked, neither took the threat seriously and the buck always stops at the commander.

 

[Circe]

Moving the fleet from San Diego to Pearl Harbor wasn't provocation, it was an attempt at intimidation. No one expected the IJN to strike Pearl, it didn't have the ability. Yamamoto had to commandeer almost every modern commercial tanker in the Japanese merchant fleet to enable the strike. Everyone from the code-breakers at Pearl to Naval and Army intelligence expected the IJN to strike at the Philippines. Attacking Pearl wasn't a logical move and violated all the IJN's pre-war planning. Kimmel and Short deserved to be sacked, neither took the threat seriously and the buck always stops at the commander.

The enemy always supposes they can scare us off. So far, that's always been a massive mistake.

One day maybe it will work, when we are sufficiently divided.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

No, it was the Zimmerman telegram, and the British DID capture it (it was in a suitcase in Baghdad) and decode it ---- very good at decoding, the British. I've read two books on the Zimmerman telegram, where the German foreign minister did indeed tell Mexico Germany would help them recover the entire American Southwest if they would start a war to distract us, it hit the papers like a bomb, it was a 9/11-type upset, the whole country rose and next week we were in a declared war against Germany.



It was a lot better when America was homogeneous. This diversity stuff is a war-loser as every empire learns.

Sieg, Se Puede!

Why didn't the Kaiser advise Mexico to invade us through illegal immigration and the asylum scam? That would have worked like a charm.

 

[AZrailwhale]

No? I thought it was because they had so many spies and they all lived way too near the Pacific Fleet shipyards. I have always thought Japanese internment an excellent precaution and likely one of the reasons we won the war in the Pacific.

There wasn't a single example of sabotage or even spying by Japanese Americans in Hawaii or elsewhere. The closest thing to that were the actions of a couple of Japanese nationals on Niihau Island who supported a marooned Japanese pilot in destroying his Zero and kidnapping a couple of Hawaiians in the days following the Pearl Harbor attack.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The enemy always supposes they can scare us off. So far, that's always been a massive mistake.

One day maybe it will work, when we are sufficiently divided.

I think that's spot on.

 

[Circe]

Sieg, Se Puede!

Why didn't the Kaiser advise Mexico to invade us through illegal immigration and the asylum scam? That would have worked like a charm.

Yeah, it IS working like a charm. . . . .

 

[AZrailwhale]

Japan invaded french indochina and we cut off their natural resources. They bombed us. There were talks between us and japan after we cut off their resources but they failed. FDR was itching to go to war while the people weren't having it.

FDR didn't want to fight Japan, he considered Japan a distraction from the real threat which was Germany. There was more popular support for a war with Japan than with Germany. Japan had been committing well-publicized atrocities in China since 1936 and was widely viewed as an expansionist power that wanted to destroy the American sphere of influence in the Pacific. That's why FDR was a proponent of the "Germany First" strategy instead of fighting Japan which had actually attacked us first.

 

[Circe]

There wasn't a single example of sabotage or even spying by Japanese Americans in Hawaii or elsewhere. The closest thing to that were the actions of a couple of Japanese nationals on Niihau Island who supported a marooned Japanese pilot in destroying his Zero and kidnapping a couple of Hawaiians in the days following the Pearl Harbor attack.

We just didn't catch the spying going on in California, I expect. I bet there was a lot of it.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Sieg, Se Puede!

Why didn't the Kaiser advise Mexico to invade us through illegal immigration and the asylum scam? That would have worked like a charm.

Not in those days. Remember WE invaded Mexico in 1916 to hunt down and kill Pancho Villa for his raid on Columbus, New Mexico and stayed there for eleven months. Illegal aliens would have been met with gunfire.

 

[AZrailwhale]

We just didn't catch the spying going on in California, I expect. I bet there was a lot of it.

As far as I know, there hasn't been a single example found and we had access to Japan's records after the war.