Should the Social Security and Medicare Age be Raised

[Lesh]

The money would be deducted from paychecks and automatically deposited into a person's retirement accounts. Early withdrawals are severely penalized in these types of accounts.

But people will still do it...and take huge hits.

 

[Lesh]

If you even learned a little about investing you'd have ;earned that annuities are a fools game.

My point exactly.

But lots of folks still get talked into doing that

 

[Blues Man]

But people will still do it...and take huge hits.

A little education will show them that it's not in their favor to do that.

If that isn;t enough then all that has to be done is to simply not allow any withdrawals until a specified age.

People will still be free to open another investment account if they want to be stupid

 

[Lisa558]

Ahhhh...yea...

I've watched people screw up often over the years. For instance I know a lot of people that panicked when the market collapsed in 08 and again in 2020 and sold when the market dived...only to lock in their losses.

I've seen others buy annuities they got talked into that failed rather spectacularly.

Yeah, they panicked and sold.

But what Blue Man is talking about is a forced retirement contribution into a fund that can’t be sold. You have no access to that money whatsoever, until retirement.

And as far as Americans being too stupid to figure out basic investing:

1) if welfare recipients too dumb or lazy to get a job can figure out how to use an iPhone, then Americans smart or motivated enough to work for a living can figure out the basics

2) to make it simple, the employer brings in a rep from the investment company who gives the employees a simple chart, showing the asset mix between bonds and stocks, based on age, and from that the employee directs the appropriate percentage into stock funds and bond funds. Admittedly, it’s a “dumbed down” summary of investing, but they would still be better off than with the SS system we have now. (More sophisticated investors can take the risk tolerance into account and adjust accordingly, but in the meantime, the beginners have a chart to guide them.)

 

[Blues Man]

My point exactly.

But lots of folks still get talked into doing that

A little education goes a long way.

But then again most annuities do what they say they will even if it's a losing game for the investor.

We know SS is a losing game but you still want it. What does that say about your propensity for being duped?

 

[Lesh]

A little education will show them that it's not in their favor to do that.

Madoff "educated" a lot of investors

People will still be free to open another investment account if they want to be stupid

Exactly and they'll crash and burn...then what?

 

[Blues Man]

Yeah, they panicked and sold.

But what Blue Man is talking about is a forced retirement contribution into a fund that can’t be sold. You have no access to that money whatsoever, until retirement.

And as far as Americans being too stupid to figure out basic investing:

1) if welfare recipients too dumb or lazy to get a job can figure out how to use an iPhone, then AmErica said smart or motivated enough to work for a living can figure out the basics

2) to make it simple, the employer brings in a rep from the investment company who gives the employees a simple chart, showing the asset mix between bonds and stocks, based on age, and from that the employee directs the appropriate percentage into stock funds and bond funds. Admittedly, it’s a “dumbed down” summary of investing, but they would still be better off than with the SS system we have now. (More sophisticated investors can take the risk tolerance into account and adjust accordingly, but in the meantime, the beginners have a chart to guide them.)

Better yet start teaching about investment in Jr High School and make it a mandatory requirement that High School students need at least 3 years of finance and investment classes to graduate

 

[Lesh]

But what Blue Man is talking about is a forced retirement contribution into a fund that can’t be sold. You have no access to that money whatsoever, until retirement.

So the government (who you claim can't be trusted) is going to control your investment.

Great

 

[Blues Man]

Madoff "educated" a lot of investors

Exactly and they'll crash and burn...then what?

Then they'll still have the 12.4% of their income saved in an untouchable retirement portfolio.

And Madoff is just another of your piss poor examples.

MAdoff duped people for large amounts of CASH to fund his Ponzi scheme

That will be impossible with a private SS portfolio

 

[Lesh]

We know SS is a losing game but you still want it.

That "losing game" will provide me $3K a month for the rest of my life. Another $1200 for my wife.

 

[Blues Man]

So the government (who you claim can't be trusted) is going to control your investment.

Great

Wrong.

YOU control it you just can't cash it in until you reach a specific age.

Social Security is the government controlling your investment and look how great a job they're doing NOT

 

[Blues Man]

That "losing game" will provide me $3K a month for the rest of my life. Another $1200 for my wife.

A pittance compared to what that 12.4% of you lifetime income could have produced.

You could have more than twice that to live on AND left your kids a few million at least

 

[Lesh]

MAdoff duped people for large amounts of CASH to fund his Ponzi scheme

The same could have been done with many small "contributions". He went for the big dollars because those people HAD the big dollars

That will be impossible with a private SS portfolio

Nonsense

 

[Blues Man]

The same could have been done with many small "contributions". He went for the big dollars because those people HAD the big dollars

Nonsense

Not if they are deducted from a paycheck and deposited into an account that cannot be accessed for withdrawals .

Lamebrain.

 

[Blues Man]

The same could have been done with many small "contributions". He went for the big dollars because those people HAD the big dollars

Nonsense

What part about not allowing withdrawals until a specified age do you not understand ?

 

[Lisa558]

So the government (who you claim can't be trusted) is going to control your investment.

Great

Duh. NO…..your investment goes into the private investment companies stock or bond funds.

 

[Lisa558]

A pittance compared to what that 12.4% of you lifetime income could have produced.

You could have more than twice that to live on AND left your kids a few million at least

Yup. It’s basically the choice my dad was given from his private employer 30+ years ago: either a guaranteed annuity for life (like SS) or he could take back his entire $300,000+ contribution made over a 30-year career with them and invest it himself.

He chose the latter and ended up a hell of a lot better off - especially toward the latter years. That investment yielded so much that he and my mom went on elaborate month-long vacations to Europe and elsewhere, five-star hotels all the way, and eventually, funding for a very nice Assisted Living place.

(RIP, Dad.)

 

[FA_Q2]

Because controlling your retirement money gives Congress lots of power. And they've been able to convince the rubes that it's necessary.

LOL - sure man. Cause they just don't let fools in government. That's not allowed. Never, ever happens.

However, we can only remove government from retirement totally IF you make people 100 percent liable for failure if and when it occurs. You cant have one side without the other and you know good as well DBlack that is not going to happen.

So, if we are not going to get government out of ensuring you are able to live out your last days with some monetary guarantees, you must have some program that ensures those monetary gains are able to be realized in the best manner possible.

You can be an ideologue and demand the purity of no government involvement here but that flatly ensures nothing gets done whatsoever. As the saying goes, never let perfect be the enemy of the good (or at least something better in this case).

As long as the government is going to be responsible for ensuring you have the basics at the end of your life, and make no mistake about it that is going to be the case, then a program to ensure proper saving is necessary.

 

[FA_Q2]

What part about not allowing withdrawals until a specified age do you not understand ?

I don't know why you are bothering. Lesh has been repeating the same exact lies and defeated counter points for 60 pages. They are simply not interested in an honest discussion on the topic.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Give it back! Or you a commie!

You don't make any sense.

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You want people forced to pay into SS and think they won't want to collect their own money?



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