Should The Rich Be Required To Pay Higher Taxes In the US?

[Little-Acorn]

Should The Rich Be Required To Pay Higher Taxes In the US?

In general govt can do, what you can do.
Taking more from the people who earn more, is simple theft.
Whether it's govt doing it or you doing it.

Yeah, it's amazing what one month of Trump can do.

I've made this point many times over the years.

No one has ever refuted it yet.

 

[pwjohn]

Due to the enormous corruption and cronyism in our federal government, many wealthy use their expensive lawyers to get out of paying taxes. The current tax code is 70k pages...time for a change.

Let's go to a simple flat tax. That would eliminate the political class' efforts to enrich their donors/owners.

There's more than a million dirtbags out there posing as tax attorneys and accountants that will crap all over your best efforts to effect change in the way you describe. And in the process, make the tax code even more complex

flat tax ends that problem right?

Youre a deeply stupid man. Refer to my comment that you quoted for the reason why.

 

[Yarddog]

I think the rich should ABSOLUTELY pay more because the majority of them are selfish and don't care about anybody but themselves! Trust me, if you are a millionaire, it is NOT going to hurt you if you just pay a little more in taxes. I believe that if you are a good and righteous person, you would want to help the poor or people that are less fortunate. It's as simple as that! People need to stop being so selfish.

Taxation was never intended to be a punishment. A good number of them use their wealth to help others I'm sure, in ways the government cant, or wont. The federal government is not a charity, their programs to help people are much more full of fraud and wasteful than when people donate privately on their own

 

[hadit]

So if it's legal, why the incessant whining over it?

Well it's that part where he lived a life of champagne wishs & caviar dreams that chaps my ass. That makes what trumps doing a scam.

Scams are illegal. What Trump did was not. Even you SHOULD be able to see the difference.

My dad was a self employed businessman and when he suffered substantial losses that reduced his taxable income to zero or even near zero, our lifestyle took a big hit as well. In other words we felt it. That's the real world. By the way, how does your wife like that new trumps ass cologne you're wearing

My dog's farts are smarter than that lame attempt at an insult. Please pay the receptionist on your way out and try again next week.

Yes scams are illegal and trump should be sitting in prison right now for the scams he pulled

Show where he his write-off was illegal. Failing that, give it up.

You started with the lame insults. Not me. And I'm sorry you have to suffer through your dog farts. Not

Really? Cite the insult. Failing that, give it up.

You're wasting my time. Oh and be sure and splash on your new trumps ass cologne liberally. Probably brings back fond memories for your wife

And you gave up so quickly, too.

 

[hadit]

No. You said it, I'm asking you.

I don't have the delegated authority; we need to ask Congress. Want to help draft a letter?

So you don't have any evidence. Got it. You can stop saying that now.

You don't have any evidence to the contrary; You can stop that now, as well.

I don't have to. I didn't make the assertion.

yes, You are implying he has Standing due to having paid personal Income taxes.

Go back and read the whole thing. You might be able to figure it out.

 

[sartre play]

Just there fair share by gross income. minus reasonable deductions, not loop holes.

 

[hadit]

Just there fair share by gross income. minus reasonable deductions, not loop holes.

1. "Fair share" has to be defined. Right now, it just means "MORE".
2. "Reasonable deductions" has to be defined.
3. What is a "loop hole" that is not a "reasonable deduction"?

 

[sakinago]

Should The Rich Be Required To Pay Higher Taxes In the US?

I think the rich should ABSOLUTELY pay more

Just how much more would you have rich people pay? Wealthy people already pay over half the total personal federal income taxes collected.

Get off the GD fed income taxes bs RW propaganda, dupe. Count ALL taxes and the top 4 quintiles pay the same percentage.

No. The top 4 quintiles do not pay the same percentage.

What is very similar among taxpayers in the top quintile is the effective rate at which their income is taxed in aggregate, that is, across federal, state and local jurisdictions to which their income is subject to taxation. That's no surprise; they're all in the same quintile.

Be that as it may, that is not what you wrote. This is what you wrote:

• "Count ALL taxes and the top 4 quintiles pay the same percentage."

Now look at the chart below. If you are of a mind to talk about quintiles, you'll notice that the top quintile has been subdivided into four groups. Do you know what a quintile is? I don't think you do. What I know is that there isn't a credible source that's going to show that in the past lustrum the members of each quintile of taxpayers pay total taxes at the same effective or marginal tax rates.

There are some taxes whereof everyone does pay the same tax rate. Those taxes are what make the rates depicted in the last chart above be as close as they are.

Your second table proves my point lol. That's basically a flat tax system,patently unfair, with the top 1% ending up with all the new wealth, and the non rich and the country going to hell...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiituWciqLSAhUh04MKHb2dCGYQFggtMAY&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g&sig2=Cj36bto8rX1hz7hzHI5FtQ

At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

As you can see, the poorer you are, the more state and local taxes bite into your income. As you get richer, those taxes recede, and you're mainly getting hit be federal taxes. So that's another lesson: When you omit state and local taxes from your analysis, you're omitting the taxes that hit lower-income taxpayers hardest.

So a flat tax, of say only 13%, starting after the first 50,000$...hurts the poor how? And if it somehow helps the rich in the end too (as long as they have made their money an honest way providing a service or product people choose to buy), is that somehow a bad thing? Are these rich lesser citizens? Or should they be treated as equals?

"We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights"

It doesn't say created to be equal, but created equal. I think the left has a hard time with this concept. Where I'm getting at, is this was something that was intended to be a what's good for the goose, is good for the gaggle situation, with untouchable ground rules in place.

 

[danielpalos]

Should The Rich Be Required To Pay Higher Taxes In the US?

I think the rich should ABSOLUTELY pay more

Just how much more would you have rich people pay? Wealthy people already pay over half the total personal federal income taxes collected.

Get off the GD fed income taxes bs RW propaganda, dupe. Count ALL taxes and the top 4 quintiles pay the same percentage.

No. The top 4 quintiles do not pay the same percentage.

What is very similar among taxpayers in the top quintile is the effective rate at which their income is taxed in aggregate, that is, across federal, state and local jurisdictions to which their income is subject to taxation. That's no surprise; they're all in the same quintile.

Be that as it may, that is not what you wrote. This is what you wrote:

• "Count ALL taxes and the top 4 quintiles pay the same percentage."

Now look at the chart below. If you are of a mind to talk about quintiles, you'll notice that the top quintile has been subdivided into four groups. Do you know what a quintile is? I don't think you do. What I know is that there isn't a credible source that's going to show that in the past lustrum the members of each quintile of taxpayers pay total taxes at the same effective or marginal tax rates.

There are some taxes whereof everyone does pay the same tax rate. Those taxes are what make the rates depicted in the last chart above be as close as they are.

Your second table proves my point lol. That's basically a flat tax system,patently unfair, with the top 1% ending up with all the new wealth, and the non rich and the country going to hell...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiituWciqLSAhUh04MKHb2dCGYQFggtMAY&url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/&usg=AFQjCNE_8LZl_VB-o4FAbNsJrxLxLCPy8g&sig2=Cj36bto8rX1hz7hzHI5FtQ

At the heart of the debate over "the 47 percent" is an awful abuse of tax data.

This entire conversation is the result of a (largely successful) effort to redefine the debate over taxes from "how much in taxes do you pay" to "how much in federal income taxes do you pay?" This is good framing if you want to cut taxes on the rich. It's bad framing if you want to have even a basic understanding of who pays how much in taxes.

There's a reason some would prefer that more limited conversation. For most Americans, payroll and state and local taxes make up the majority of their tax bill. The federal income tax, by contrast, is our most progressive tax -- it's the tax we've designed to place the heaviest burden on the rich while bypassing the poor. And we've done that, again, because the working class is already paying a fairly high tax bill through payroll and state and local taxes.

But most people don't know very much about the tax code. And the federal income tax is still our most famous tax. So when they hear that half of Americans aren't paying federal income taxes, they're outraged -- even if they're among the folks who have a net negative tax burden! After all, they know they're paying taxes, and there's no reason for normal human beings to assume that the taxes getting taken out of their paycheck every week and some of the taxes they pay at the end of the year aren't classified as "federal income taxes."

Confining the discussion to the federal income tax plays another role, too: It makes the tax code look much more progressive than it actually is.

Take someone who makes $4 million dollars a year and someone who makes $40,000 a year. The person making $4 million dollars, assuming he's not doing some Romney-esque planning, is paying a 35 percent tax on most of that money. The person making $40,000 is probably paying no income tax at all. So that makes the system look really unfair to the rich guy.

That's the basic analysis of the 47 percent line. And it's a basic analysis that serves a purpose: It makes further tax cuts for the rich sound more reasonable.

But what if we did the same thing for the payroll tax? Remember, the payroll tax only applies to first $110,100 or so, our rich friends is only paying payroll taxes on 2.7 percent of his income. The guy making $40,000? He's paying payroll taxes on every dollar of his income. Now who's not getting a fair shake?

Which is why, if you want to understand who's paying what in taxes, you don't want to just look at federal income taxes, or federal payroll taxes, or state sales taxes -- you want to look at total taxes. And, luckily, the tax analysis group Citizens for Tax Justice keeps those numbers. So here is total taxes -- which includes corporate taxes, income taxes, payroll taxes, state sales taxes, and more -- paid by different income groups and broken into federal and state and local burdens:

As you can see, the poorer you are, the more state and local taxes bite into your income. As you get richer, those taxes recede, and you're mainly getting hit be federal taxes. So that's another lesson: When you omit state and local taxes from your analysis, you're omitting the taxes that hit lower-income taxpayers hardest.

So a flat tax, of say only 13%, starting after the first 50,000$...hurts the poor how? And if it somehow helps the rich in the end too (as long as they have made their money an honest way providing a service or product people choose to buy), is that somehow a bad thing? Are these rich lesser citizens? Or should they be treated as equals?

"We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights"

It doesn't say created to be equal, but created equal. I think the left has a hard time with this concept. Where I'm getting at, is this was something that was intended to be a what's good for the goose, is good for the gaggle situation, with untouchable ground rules in place.

is the right wing going to stop complaining that the poor pay no taxes?

 

[JoeNormal]

I think the rich should ABSOLUTELY pay more because the majority of them are selfish and don't care about anybody but themselves! Trust me, if you are a millionaire, it is NOT going to hurt you if you just pay a little more in taxes. I believe that if you are a good and righteous person, you would want to help the poor or people that are less fortunate. It's as simple as that! People need to stop being so selfish.

The top 10% of wage earners in this country already pay over 70% of the collected income taxes in this country. If that's not enough, then how much more should they pay? 75%? 80%? 95%?

About 45% of our population pays no income tax at all. Maybe it's about time those on the bottom start paying their fare share for a change. And remember, the US is the most generous people in the entire world. We give more of our money to the so-called poor than anybody, and it's not those Wal-Mart people that are giving, it's those greedy millionaires you speak of.

How many times are you going to trot out this incredibly stupid statistic? All it shows is that wealth disparity is currently horrendous.

 

[JoeNormal]

I think the rich should ABSOLUTELY pay more because the majority of them are selfish and don't care about anybody but themselves! Trust me, if you are a millionaire, it is NOT going to hurt you if you just pay a little more in taxes. I believe that if you are a good and righteous person, you would want to help the poor or people that are less fortunate. It's as simple as that! People need to stop being so selfish.

The top 10% of wage earners in this country already pay over 70% of the collected income taxes in this country. If that's not enough, then how much more should they pay? 75%? 80%? 95%?

About 45% of our population pays no income tax at all. Maybe it's about time those on the bottom start paying their fare share for a change. And remember, the US is the most generous people in the entire world. We give more of our money to the so-called poor than anybody, and it's not those Wal-Mart people that are giving, it's those greedy millionaires you speak of.

but but but but... What about local taxes? Those poor bastards in cook county Illinois voted for democrats and now have to pay a 10.25% sales tax...

Meanwhile I left that place, vote for republicans in South Carolina and only have to pay a 6% sales tax

Sometimes you get what you pay for.

 

[danielpalos]

I think the rich should ABSOLUTELY pay more because the majority of them are selfish and don't care about anybody but themselves! Trust me, if you are a millionaire, it is NOT going to hurt you if you just pay a little more in taxes. I believe that if you are a good and righteous person, you would want to help the poor or people that are less fortunate. It's as simple as that! People need to stop being so selfish.

The top 10% of wage earners in this country already pay over 70% of the collected income taxes in this country. If that's not enough, then how much more should they pay? 75%? 80%? 95%?

About 45% of our population pays no income tax at all. Maybe it's about time those on the bottom start paying their fare share for a change. And remember, the US is the most generous people in the entire world. We give more of our money to the so-called poor than anybody, and it's not those Wal-Mart people that are giving, it's those greedy millionaires you speak of.

but but but but... What about local taxes? Those poor bastards in cook county Illinois voted for democrats and now have to pay a 10.25% sales tax...

Meanwhile I left that place, vote for republicans in South Carolina and only have to pay a 6% sales tax

Sometimes you get what you pay for.

Can it be immoral to simply and merely, tax the wealthiest into Heaven by solving simple poverty in our Republic?

 

[JoeNormal]

I think the rich should ABSOLUTELY pay more because the majority of them are selfish and don't care about anybody but themselves! Trust me, if you are a millionaire, it is NOT going to hurt you if you just pay a little more in taxes. I believe that if you are a good and righteous person, you would want to help the poor or people that are less fortunate. It's as simple as that! People need to stop being so selfish.

The top 10% of wage earners in this country already pay over 70% of the collected income taxes in this country. If that's not enough, then how much more should they pay? 75%? 80%? 95%?

About 45% of our population pays no income tax at all. Maybe it's about time those on the bottom start paying their fare share for a change. And remember, the US is the most generous people in the entire world. We give more of our money to the so-called poor than anybody, and it's not those Wal-Mart people that are giving, it's those greedy millionaires you speak of.

but but but but... What about local taxes? Those poor bastards in cook county Illinois voted for democrats and now have to pay a 10.25% sales tax...

Meanwhile I left that place, vote for republicans in South Carolina and only have to pay a 6% sales tax

Sometimes you get what you pay for.

Can it be immoral to simply and merely, tax the wealthiest into Heaven by solving simple poverty in our Republic?

Not in my mind.

 

[2aguy]

No....everyone should pay the same percent..between 10-15% of any income.......

 

[2aguy]

I think the rich should ABSOLUTELY pay more because the majority of them are selfish and don't care about anybody but themselves! Trust me, if you are a millionaire, it is NOT going to hurt you if you just pay a little more in taxes. I believe that if you are a good and righteous person, you would want to help the poor or people that are less fortunate. It's as simple as that! People need to stop being so selfish.

The top 10% of wage earners in this country already pay over 70% of the collected income taxes in this country. If that's not enough, then how much more should they pay? 75%? 80%? 95%?

About 45% of our population pays no income tax at all. Maybe it's about time those on the bottom start paying their fare share for a change. And remember, the US is the most generous people in the entire world. We give more of our money to the so-called poor than anybody, and it's not those Wal-Mart people that are giving, it's those greedy millionaires you speak of.

but but but but... What about local taxes? Those poor bastards in cook county Illinois voted for democrats and now have to pay a 10.25% sales tax...

Meanwhile I left that place, vote for republicans in South Carolina and only have to pay a 6% sales tax

Sometimes you get what you pay for.

Can it be immoral to simply and merely, tax the wealthiest into Heaven by solving simple poverty in our Republic?

Taxing the rich won't solve poverty....graduating from high school, not getting a criminal record, not having kids before you are married, ...those 3 things will keep you out of poverty........and you don't have to steal from the rich to do any of them....

 

[danielpalos]

No....everyone should pay the same percent..between 10-15% of any income.......

Why? Equality is a social concept not a capital concept.

Under Capitalism, you get what you pay for.

The best things in life are "free" only under socialism.

 

[danielpalos]

I think the rich should ABSOLUTELY pay more because the majority of them are selfish and don't care about anybody but themselves! Trust me, if you are a millionaire, it is NOT going to hurt you if you just pay a little more in taxes. I believe that if you are a good and righteous person, you would want to help the poor or people that are less fortunate. It's as simple as that! People need to stop being so selfish.

The top 10% of wage earners in this country already pay over 70% of the collected income taxes in this country. If that's not enough, then how much more should they pay? 75%? 80%? 95%?

About 45% of our population pays no income tax at all. Maybe it's about time those on the bottom start paying their fare share for a change. And remember, the US is the most generous people in the entire world. We give more of our money to the so-called poor than anybody, and it's not those Wal-Mart people that are giving, it's those greedy millionaires you speak of.

but but but but... What about local taxes? Those poor bastards in cook county Illinois voted for democrats and now have to pay a 10.25% sales tax...

Meanwhile I left that place, vote for republicans in South Carolina and only have to pay a 6% sales tax

Sometimes you get what you pay for.

Can it be immoral to simply and merely, tax the wealthiest into Heaven by solving simple poverty in our Republic?

Taxing the rich won't solve poverty....graduating from high school, not getting a criminal record, not having kids before you are married, ...those 3 things will keep you out of poverty........and you don't have to steal from the rich to do any of them....

We know better now. Being undercapitalized is a leading cause of small business failure.

Only the right wing, never gets it.

 

[2aguy]

No....everyone should pay the same percent..between 10-15% of any income.......

Why? Equality is a social concept not a capital concept.

Under Capitalism, you get what you pay for.

The best things in life are "free" only under socialism.

No...the best things in life only exist for the rich under socialism...everyone else gets the worst......

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The poor pay no taxes as it is.

 

[Billo_Really]

We need to tax the holy shit out of the rich. They've been getting away with too much for too long. This is bullshit treating the rich so nice, letting them have tax cuts and seeing poor right folk doing their bidding for them. Well, fuck that! Force the rich to pay what the rest of us are paying.