Should the Federal Government Own Nevada ?

[nodoginnafight]

PROPERTY RIGHTS.

Yes the Federal government has them too.

Bundy is a deadbeat rentor.

That is the whole story.

He is ripping off the USA.

100% correct

He's been denied access because he hasn't paid his grazing fees in 20 years.

Nuff said.

Not correct.. EVERYONE has been denied access for reasons that the Govt doesn't want to defend. Bundy is only character left RESISTING that edict.. There is no more grazing allowed on those lands..

Bundy could be grazing his cattle there - if he paid his bills.

Welfare cowboy - maybe he'd be better off if he were a slave

 

[flacaltenn]

100% correct

He's been denied access because he hasn't paid his grazing fees in 20 years.

Nuff said.

Not correct.. EVERYONE has been denied access for reasons that the Govt doesn't want to defend. Bundy is only character left RESISTING that edict.. There is no more grazing allowed on those lands..

Bundy could be grazing his cattle there - if he paid his bills.

Welfare cowboy - maybe he'd be better off if he were a slave

NOPE -- Get your facts straight and maybe you'll understand that the story isn't about Bundy. No more grazing permits AVAILABLE. To ANYONE on those lands..

 

[flacaltenn]

Nevada Governor Calls Federal Cattle Roundup ?Intimidation? « CBS Las Vegas

Federal officials say 277 cows have been rounded up since Saturday from a 1,200-square-mile area that it has closed to the public for the operation about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

His dispute with the government dates to 1993, when land managers cited concern for the federally protected desert tortoise and capped Bundy’s herd at 150 animals on his 158,666-acre Bunkerville allotment of rangeland.

Bundy protested by withholding his monthly grazing fees and kept using the range. The BLM canceled his grazing permit in 1994. A federal court in 1998 ordered him to remove the animals, and federal authorities in 1999 officially closed the Bunkerville allotment to cattle.

Cliven Bundy Nevada Cattle Ranch Rebellion Against BLM - TIME

Twenty years ago, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM) decided to clear privately owned cattle off this patch of public land to protect the endangered Mojave Desert tortoise. Dozens of ranchers left. Cliven Bundy stayed.

Under those circumstances --- I wouldn't pay the back fees either. Not when there ARE NO MORE grazing permits available. The other 15 ranchers probably feel like fools for complying all those years -- just to have their livelihoods destroyed by arrogant and arbitrary actions of the BLM...

 

[ScreamingEagle]

PROPERTY RIGHTS.

Yes the Federal government has them too.

Bundy is a deadbeat rentor.

That is the whole story.

He is ripping off the USA.

He has been denied access to land neccessary to maintain his family's 150 year business. For reasons that are arrogant and unfathomable and indefensible. And the only reason the story about poor mgt of land in Nevada is about HIM --- is because the Govt doesn't want it to be about all those ugly things that they can't defend.. Like that map of THEIR land use in Southern Nevada and the euthanizing and cleansing of tortoises.

yep....arrogance and underhandedness on the part of politicians.....imagine that...

the land should not belong to the federal government because the Feds had no right to claim Nevada lands in return for Statehood....

this land claim was a bogus one-sided deal under the 'Statehood Act' back in 1864....when the politicians rushed Nevada into statehood for its votes in the 1864 election....but kept most of the land as territory....in other words an underhanded deal....federal overreach isn't just limited to modern times....

before that.....back in 1845 the question was already addressed in Pollard's Lessee v Hagan when Alabama became a state...it makes the contract with Nevada null and void...

The Pollard decision expressed a statement of constitutional law in dictum making it very clear that the Feds have no claim over the lands in Nevada. The Supreme Court states:

The United States never held any municipal sovereignty, jurisdiction, or right of soil in and to the territory of which Alabama, or any of the new States, were formed, except for temporary purposes, and to execute the trusts created by the acts of the Virginia and Georgia legislatures, and the deeds of cession executed by them to the United States, and the trust created by the treaty of the 30th April, 1803, with the French Republic ceding Louisiana.

So in other words, once a territory becomes a state, the Fed must surrender all claims to the land as if it were still just a possession or territory.

Sorry, but to all the left-wing commentators who call Bundy a tax-cheat and an outlaw, be careful of what you speak for the Supreme Court has made it clear in 1845 that the Constitution forbids the federal rangers to be out there to begin with for the Feds could not retain ownership of the territory and simultaneously grant state sovereignty. At the very minimum, it became state land – not federal.

Martin Armstrong Asks "Do The Feds Really Own The Land In Nevada?" | Zero Hedge

 

[nodoginnafight]

Not correct.. EVERYONE has been denied access for reasons that the Govt doesn't want to defend. Bundy is only character left RESISTING that edict.. There is no more grazing allowed on those lands..

Bundy could be grazing his cattle there - if he paid his bills.

Welfare cowboy - maybe he'd be better off if he were a slave

NOPE -- Get your facts straight and maybe you'll understand that the story isn't about Bundy. No more grazing permits AVAILABLE. To ANYONE on those lands..

I know the facts of the case - not just the ones trotted out by the militia bloggers. You need to broaden your sources. You are being fed a line of crap. Don't just swallow it without checking under the hood more carefully.

Bundy got his panties in a wad and stopped paying his fees.
He's lost five rounds in court

He's a freeloader.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Bundy could be grazing his cattle there - if he paid his bills.

Welfare cowboy - maybe he'd be better off if he were a slave

NOPE -- Get your facts straight and maybe you'll understand that the story isn't about Bundy. No more grazing permits AVAILABLE. To ANYONE on those lands..

I know the facts of the case - not just the ones trotted out by the militia bloggers. You need to broaden your sources. You are being fed a line of crap. Don't just swallow it without checking under the hood more carefully.

Bundy got his panties in a wad and stopped paying his fees.
He's lost five rounds in court

He's a freeloader.

how can he be a freeloader when he doesn't recognize the federal government ownership...?

a state freeloader perhaps.....? but where was he supposed to pay the state fees....? same place Dingy Harry did for all his projects on federal land....?

 

[flacaltenn]

Bundy could be grazing his cattle there - if he paid his bills.

Welfare cowboy - maybe he'd be better off if he were a slave

NOPE -- Get your facts straight and maybe you'll understand that the story isn't about Bundy. No more grazing permits AVAILABLE. To ANYONE on those lands..

I know the facts of the case - not just the ones trotted out by the militia bloggers. You need to broaden your sources. You are being fed a line of crap. Don't just swallow it without checking under the hood more carefully.

Bundy got his panties in a wad and stopped paying his fees.
He's lost five rounds in court

He's a freeloader.

You just lost because your mind is CLOSED.. And won't accept the facts.. And TIME magazine and the local Las Vegas CBS news --- are NOT "militia bloggers" -- ARE THEY?

 

[Camp]

Nevada Governor Calls Federal Cattle Roundup ?Intimidation? « CBS Las Vegas

Federal officials say 277 cows have been rounded up since Saturday from a 1,200-square-mile area that it has closed to the public for the operation about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

His dispute with the government dates to 1993, when land managers cited concern for the federally protected desert tortoise and capped Bundy’s herd at 150 animals on his 158,666-acre Bunkerville allotment of rangeland.

Bundy protested by withholding his monthly grazing fees and kept using the range. The BLM canceled his grazing permit in 1994. A federal court in 1998 ordered him to remove the animals, and federal authorities in 1999 officially closed the Bunkerville allotment to cattle.

Cliven Bundy Nevada Cattle Ranch Rebellion Against BLM - TIME

Twenty years ago, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM) decided to clear privately owned cattle off this patch of public land to protect the endangered Mojave Desert tortoise. Dozens of ranchers left. Cliven Bundy stayed.

Under those circumstances --- I wouldn't pay the back fees either. Not when there ARE NO MORE grazing permits available. The other 15 ranchers probably feel like fools for complying all those years -- just to have their livelihoods destroyed by arrogant and arbitrary actions of the BLM...

The other ranchers probably looked up the road and saw the casino's and gulf courses going up and being built up the road in Mesquite and all the surrounding land being developed for housing to take care of all the workers. They probably figured the area was turning into another Laughlin in the middle of a growing tourist destination and figured out it was time to make a change and some unexpected and opportune profits from their ranches. Bundy is the fool who is going to loose his families ranch because of his mismanagement and failure to pay his bills. Wonder how many militia members will come to his aid with cash to pay his lien.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Nevada Governor Calls Federal Cattle Roundup ?Intimidation? « CBS Las Vegas

Federal officials say 277 cows have been rounded up since Saturday from a 1,200-square-mile area that it has closed to the public for the operation about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

His dispute with the government dates to 1993, when land managers cited concern for the federally protected desert tortoise and capped Bundy’s herd at 150 animals on his 158,666-acre Bunkerville allotment of rangeland.

Bundy protested by withholding his monthly grazing fees and kept using the range. The BLM canceled his grazing permit in 1994. A federal court in 1998 ordered him to remove the animals, and federal authorities in 1999 officially closed the Bunkerville allotment to cattle.

Cliven Bundy Nevada Cattle Ranch Rebellion Against BLM - TIME

Twenty years ago, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM) decided to clear privately owned cattle off this patch of public land to protect the endangered Mojave Desert tortoise. Dozens of ranchers left. Cliven Bundy stayed.

Under those circumstances --- I wouldn't pay the back fees either. Not when there ARE NO MORE grazing permits available. The other 15 ranchers probably feel like fools for complying all those years -- just to have their livelihoods destroyed by arrogant and arbitrary actions of the BLM...

The other ranchers probably looked up the road and saw the casino's and gulf courses going up and being built up the road in Mesquite and all the surrounding land being developed for housing to take care of all the workers. They probably figured the area was turning into another Laughlin in the middle of a growing tourist destination and figured out it was time to make a change and some unexpected and opportune profits from their ranches. Bundy is the fool who is going to loose his families ranch because of his mismanagement and failure to pay his bills. Wonder how many militia members will come to his aid with cash to pay his lien.

explain why Bundy should lose (not "loose" you loser) his family ranch because Dingy Harry wanted to build some casinos....?

 

[flacaltenn]

Interesting that the State of Nevada has a similar standoff with the Feds LONG BEFORE Bundy became a protestor of Federal Authority..

http://www.law.umaryland.edu/marshall/crsreports/crsdocuments/RL34267_12032007.pdf

The Sagebrush Rebellion was a collection of efforts to force the federal
government to divest itself of federal lands. These efforts took the form of state and
local legislation, court challenges, federal administrative changes, and efforts at
federal legislation. The target was usually BLM lands, but sometimes included
national forests. These efforts failed for a number of reasons. A fundamental
obstacle was that Nevada, and other states, agreed as a condition of statehood to
disclaim forever “all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within
said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition
of the United States.”42 This language was part of the enabling act creating the states
and was incorporated into their constitutions; therefore the state laws asserting title
to those federal lands appeared to contravene their own constitutions.43 At any rate,
the state laws were not enforced.44 The rebellion was more effective as a political
movement than a legislative one.

State and Local Efforts.

In 1979, Nevada enacted a state law asserting state
title, and management and disposal authority over public (BLM) lands within
Nevada’s boundaries.46 Similar state laws asserting state authority over public lands
were passed in Arizona, Hawaii, Idaho, New Mexico, North Dakota, Utah, and
Wyoming.47 Other attempts to enact similar state laws were less successful.
These efforts took the form of state and
local legislation, court challenges, federal administrative changes, and efforts at
federal legislation. The target was usually BLM lands, but sometimes included
national forests. These efforts failed for a number of reasons. A fundamental
obstacle was that Nevada, and other states, agreed as a condition of statehood to
disclaim forever “all right and title to the unappropriated public lands lying within
said territory, and that the same shall be and remain at the sole and entire disposition
of the United States.”42 This language was part of the enabling act creating the states
and was incorporated into their constitutions; therefore the state laws asserting title
to those federal lands appeared to contravene their own constitutions.43 At any rate,
the state laws were not enforced.44 The rebellion was more effective as a political
movement than a legislative one.45

In 1978, the State of Nevada began its court challenge of the constitutionality
of the federal land retention policy in § 102(a) of FLPMA. Nevada argued that the
federal government could only lawfully hold public lands in a temporary trust
pending eventual disposal, and that retention of the lands violated the equal footing
doctrine. The federal District Court for the District of Nevada dismissed the case for
failure to identify a claim upon which relief could be granted.49 The court found that
any limitations on holding lands ceded by the original states did not apply to western
lands acquired after the Constitution went into effect, and that the equal footing
doctrine did not mean that the newer western states were entitled to the public lands.
The court noted that the equal footing doctrine applied only to political and
sovereignty rights, and not to economic or geographic equality, and that the Constitution
reserved to Congress the authority to decide which federal lands to sell or to
keep.


On the symbolic date of July 4, 1993, Nye County (NV) took action on federal
lands, using a bulldozer to open closed roads, based on the assertion that Nevada held
title to the lands. The United States filed suit seeking a declaratory judgment that it
owned and had authority to manage the disputed lands within Nye County and that
the county resolution regarding roads and right of way was invalid. The United
States prevailed in federal court.

 

[nodoginnafight]

NOPE -- Get your facts straight and maybe you'll understand that the story isn't about Bundy. No more grazing permits AVAILABLE. To ANYONE on those lands..

I know the facts of the case - not just the ones trotted out by the militia bloggers. You need to broaden your sources. You are being fed a line of crap. Don't just swallow it without checking under the hood more carefully.

Bundy got his panties in a wad and stopped paying his fees.
He's lost five rounds in court

He's a freeloader.

how can he be a freeloader when he doesn't recognize the federal government ownership...?

a state freeloader perhaps.....? but where was he supposed to pay the state fees....? same place Dingy Harry did for all his projects on federal land....?

What he does or does not recognize doesn't mean squat.

I can say I don't recognize my utility company, doesn't matter. If I don't pay my bill, they'll turn my electricity off. You can't stop paying your bills by claiming not to recognize the person you owe.

That's one of the most stupid arguments I've ever heard. (And considering the number of posts I've read on these boards, that's saying something.)

 

[ScreamingEagle]

I know the facts of the case - not just the ones trotted out by the militia bloggers. You need to broaden your sources. You are being fed a line of crap. Don't just swallow it without checking under the hood more carefully.

Bundy got his panties in a wad and stopped paying his fees.
He's lost five rounds in court

He's a freeloader.

how can he be a freeloader when he doesn't recognize the federal government ownership...?

a state freeloader perhaps.....? but where was he supposed to pay the state fees....? same place Dingy Harry did for all his projects on federal land....?

What he does or does not recognize doesn't mean squat.

I can say I don't recognize my utility company, doesn't matter. If I don't pay my bill, they'll turn my electricity off. You can't stop paying your bills by claiming not to recognize the person you owe.

That's one of the most stupid arguments I've ever heard. (And considering the number of posts I've read on these boards, that's saying something.)

you're an idiot....like most leftards.....kowtowing to Washington DC politicians which is exactly why the Feds are a growing power taking away our freedoms...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Not correct.. EVERYONE has been denied access for reasons that the Govt doesn't want to defend. Bundy is only character left RESISTING that edict.. There is no more grazing allowed on those lands..

Bundy could be grazing his cattle there - if he paid his bills.

Welfare cowboy - maybe he'd be better off if he were a slave

NOPE -- Get your facts straight and maybe you'll understand that the story isn't about Bundy. No more grazing permits AVAILABLE. To ANYONE on those lands..

And?

Bundy was part of the problem, and his involvement has been removed.

BLM manages the land FOR ALL OF US.

 

[nodoginnafight]

how can he be a freeloader when he doesn't recognize the federal government ownership...?

a state freeloader perhaps.....? but where was he supposed to pay the state fees....? same place Dingy Harry did for all his projects on federal land....?

What he does or does not recognize doesn't mean squat.

I can say I don't recognize my utility company, doesn't matter. If I don't pay my bill, they'll turn my electricity off. You can't stop paying your bills by claiming not to recognize the person you owe.

That's one of the most stupid arguments I've ever heard. (And considering the number of posts I've read on these boards, that's saying something.)

you're an idiot....like most leftards.....kowtowing to Washington DC politicians which is exactly why the Feds are a growing power taking away our freedoms...

LOL - that's all you got?

If he can't run his ranch without free cattle feed from the U.S. taxpayers - he deserves to go out of business.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"the Feds had no right to claim Nevada lands in return for Statehood...."

Since the Feds owned the land for all of us in the first place, Congress had every right to legislate land division as it did.

We are not going back to 1791.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You far right reactionaries have no weight or traction in this argument.

If Bundy still owes $$$ to the feds after this, his private property will be seized and auctioned.

It does not matter what you recognize or not.

 

[Camp]

Under those circumstances --- I wouldn't pay the back fees either. Not when there ARE NO MORE grazing permits available. The other 15 ranchers probably feel like fools for complying all those years -- just to have their livelihoods destroyed by arrogant and arbitrary actions of the BLM...

The other ranchers probably looked up the road and saw the casino's and gulf courses going up and being built up the road in Mesquite and all the surrounding land being developed for housing to take care of all the workers. They probably figured the area was turning into another Laughlin in the middle of a growing tourist destination and figured out it was time to make a change and some unexpected and opportune profits from their ranches. Bundy is the fool who is going to loose his families ranch because of his mismanagement and failure to pay his bills. Wonder how many militia members will come to his aid with cash to pay his lien.

explain why Bundy should lose (not "loose" you loser) his family ranch because Dingy Harry wanted to build some casinos....?

He will lose because he didn't adjust his business and/or know when to hold and when to fold (while surrounded by gambling casino's) or how to transform his real estate holdings.

 

[flacaltenn]

I know the facts of the case - not just the ones trotted out by the militia bloggers. You need to broaden your sources. You are being fed a line of crap. Don't just swallow it without checking under the hood more carefully.

Bundy got his panties in a wad and stopped paying his fees.
He's lost five rounds in court

He's a freeloader.

how can he be a freeloader when he doesn't recognize the federal government ownership...?

a state freeloader perhaps.....? but where was he supposed to pay the state fees....? same place Dingy Harry did for all his projects on federal land....?

What he does or does not recognize doesn't mean squat.

I can say I don't recognize my utility company, doesn't matter. If I don't pay my bill, they'll turn my electricity off. You can't stop paying your bills by claiming not to recognize the person you owe.

That's one of the most stupid arguments I've ever heard. (And considering the number of posts I've read on these boards, that's saying something.)

Post #130 Dog.. State of Nevada did not recognize Fed control of their lands in the late 70s. I suppose THEY don't matter either..

 

[nodoginnafight]

"the Feds had no right to claim Nevada lands in return for Statehood...."

Since the Feds owned the land for all of us in the first place, Congress had every right to legislate land division as it did.

We are not going back to 1791.

Nevada didn't want responsibility for policing or managing the land.

If they've changed their mind, fine. They need to amend their constitution and ask the people of the United States of America if we will give it back to them.

And say "pretty please."

 

[ScreamingEagle]

"the Feds had no right to claim Nevada lands in return for Statehood...."

Since the Feds owned the land for all of us in the first place, Congress had every right to legislate land division as it did.

We are not going back to 1791.

if you squint you might see the actual state of Nevada.....the light blue and white areas....

is this really 'statehood'....?