Should the Federal Government Own Nevada ?

[NYcarbineer]

The federal grazing fee that Bundy refuses to pay is $1.35 per month per cow.

The market rate on private lands in Nevada is $16.80.

Bundy refused to pay for something he was getting at a 90+% discount, at the expense of the taxpayers.

Op-ed: Cliven Bundy is a food-stamp cowboy | The Salt Lake Tribune

And the drug growers in the national forests pay nothing at all. They are allowed to stay without interference by the same BLM now pursuing Bundy. That's selective prosecution. Maybe it is anti white racism.

That is neither true nor relevant if it was true.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The federal grazing fee that Bundy refuses to pay is $1.35 per month per cow.

The market rate on private lands in Nevada is $16.80.

Bundy refused to pay for something he was getting at a 90+% discount, at the expense of the taxpayers.

Op-ed: Cliven Bundy is a food-stamp cowboy | The Salt Lake Tribune

And the drug growers in the national forests pay nothing at all. They are allowed to stay without interference by the same BLM now pursuing Bundy. That's selective prosecution. Maybe it is anti white racism.

Guilty Plea in Case with 7,302 Marijuana Plants Seized from Sequoia National Forest
(Case No. 1:13CR172 AWI)
Sergio Reyna Huerta, 36, of Michoacán, Mexico, pleaded guilty to conspiring to manufacture, distribute, and possess with intent to distribute marijuana grown in the Gibboney Canyon area of the Sequoia National Forest in Kern County. The area is also within the federally designated Domeland Wilderness area. According to court documents, U.S. Forest Service agents seized 7,302 marijuana plants from the site and found 5,000 marijuana plant stalks consistent with a prior harvest in 2012. During the execution of a federal search warrant at the site, agents found Reyna sleeping in a tent. In pleading guilty, Reyna agreed to pay $2,675 in restitution to the U.S. Forest Service for damage caused by the cultivation operation. Trash and fertilizer bags were scattered about the area and the ground was terraced after native vegetation, including oak trees, was cut down to make room for the marijuana plants. Trash was also found in the waterway of Gibboney Creek.

Reyna is scheduled for sentencing on January 21, 2014. He faces a mandatory prison term of five years and a maximum prison term of 40 years, along with a fine of $5 million. The actual sentence, however, will be determined at the discretion of the court after consideration of any applicable statutory factors and the Federal Sentencing Guidelines, which take into account a number of variables. Reyna is also subject to deportation to Mexico upon completion of his prison term.

This case was investigated by the U.S. Forest Service, DEA, California Department of Fish and Wildlife, and Kern County Sheriff’s Office.

USDOJ: US Attorney's Office - EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

 

[NYcarbineer]

his issue is the limit placed on the number of cattle he could graze

Wrong. He didn't pay for the cattle he was grazing. No wonder you people are so mental over this. Most of you apparently have no clue as to the most simple facts of the case.

of course he didnt pay for cattle grazed his herd size was illegal according

to BLM which had limited his permit to 150 head which would have drove him out of business

like it did for 51 other ranchers in the area

To the extent that any of what you said might be true, the Federal Government has no obligation whatsoever to provide grazing privileges, on demand and in any amount demanded.

If Bundy can't stay in business without the taxpayer subsidized 90% discount on market value of grazing rights,

then maybe he needs a new business model.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If Bundy can't make money raising cattle without a government handout,

maybe he should try growing cotton.

 

[flacaltenn]

BLM works for We the People

Not Racist Cliven Bundy

BLM land use and mgt practices are an evil joke.. Especially in Nevada. The govt has a long track record of misusing that land and has no conscience about Desert Tortoises or threatened species or the lives and welfare of the the folks in all those small communities that get yanked around by the balls..

And racist Cliven Bundys is only interested in what is best for our country

Got it

Story aint really ever about Bundy. Its about ludricrous land mgt practices that are creating ghost towns and devasting lives. Its about the map I posted and the fact that theres no rrom for a 1000 head of cattle, but plenty of room for bombing ranges sharing land with wildlife preserves. And using turtles as a poor excuse, while you are planning to kill hundreds entrusted to your care.. Did I mention the 1000 atom bomb explosions the the folks and turtles in Bunkerville could hear and feel?

 

[flacaltenn]

Wrong. He didn't pay for the cattle he was grazing. No wonder you people are so mental over this. Most of you apparently have no clue as to the most simple facts of the case.

of course he didnt pay for cattle grazed his herd size was illegal according

to BLM which had limited his permit to 150 head which would have drove him out of business

like it did for 51 other ranchers in the area

We keep hearing about these rancher neighbors that have been driven out of business. What does that mean? Did they loose their property? Why didn't the local or state cattlemen's association stand with Bundy? Every time I search for news reports on the topic of ranchers being driven out of business I get links to Glenn Beck crap that has absolutely no links to any kind of actual source. So what is the source of this claim about Bundy's neighboring ranchers being driven out of business?

There are no more grazing permits around Bunkerville. The ranges have been closed. Only important thing about Bundy is he doesnt feel as stupid as the 15 other ranchers who followed the BLM regs. That land is also now largely closed to the 6 Mill recreational visitorsa year. Essentially the Feds Have killed off all commerce and a few towns. And the BLM needed a diversion to the story and made it about the only guy who stood up to their arrogance.

 

[jon_berzerk]

The federal grazing fee that Bundy refuses to pay is $1.35 per month per cow.

The market rate on private lands in Nevada is $16.80.

Bundy refused to pay for something he was getting at a 90+% discount, at the expense of the taxpayers.

Op-ed: Cliven Bundy is a food-stamp cowboy | The Salt Lake Tribune

And the drug growers in the national forests pay nothing at all. They are allowed to stay without interference by the same BLM now pursuing Bundy. That's selective prosecution. Maybe it is anti white racism.

That is neither true nor relevant if it was true.

The market rate on private lands in Nevada is $16.80.

of course it is as it should be

in a typical private lease a livestock rancher buys complete control of and exclusive access

to a self sufficient production unit such as a complete ranch or a fenced watered pasture


Public range land is virtually unfurnished non exclusive

and requires ranchers to provide their own water fencing and roads

 

[jon_berzerk]

The federal grazing fee that Bundy refuses to pay is $1.35 per month per cow.

The market rate on private lands in Nevada is $16.80.

Bundy refused to pay for something he was getting at a 90+% discount, at the expense of the taxpayers.

Op-ed: Cliven Bundy is a food-stamp cowboy | The Salt Lake Tribune

And the drug growers in the national forests pay nothing at all. They are allowed to stay without interference by the same BLM now pursuing Bundy. That's selective prosecution. Maybe it is anti white racism.

it is a complete fabrication out of whole cloth

to say bundy got a "discount"

the "value" of un improved public land is much lower

then that of improved private land

 

[Camp]

of course he didnt pay for cattle grazed his herd size was illegal according

to BLM which had limited his permit to 150 head which would have drove him out of business

like it did for 51 other ranchers in the area

We keep hearing about these rancher neighbors that have been driven out of business. What does that mean? Did they loose their property? Why didn't the local or state cattlemen's association stand with Bundy? Every time I search for news reports on the topic of ranchers being driven out of business I get links to Glenn Beck crap that has absolutely no links to any kind of actual source. So what is the source of this claim about Bundy's neighboring ranchers being driven out of business?

There are no more grazing permits around Bunkerville. The ranges have been closed. Only important thing about Bundy is he doesnt feel as stupid as the 15 other ranchers who followed the BLM regs. That land is also now largely closed to the 6 Mill recreational visitorsa year. Essentially the Feds Have killed off all commerce and a few towns. And the BLM needed a diversion to the story and made it about the only guy who stood up to their arrogance.

OK, so you don't have the link I requested but you have some other claims that you have decided to provide, but no links to those claims either. I don't even need a link. A clue as to what to use for search purposes would do. I find it hard to believe that such an important factor in this story, the claim of rancher neighbors of Bundy being driven out of business, would not be easy to confirm or even reported in a reliable news source.
Your claim of the land being "largely closed to the 6 Mill recreational visitors a year." seems to be just another example of how Bundy supporters are willing to use absolutely ridiculous and fraudulent made up nonsense to mislead the public about the facts related to this story. Makes any of your comments on this subject highly suspicious and in the "not credible" category.

 

[Stephanie]

I think Nevada should be turned into a giant solar thermal collector. 110 thousand square miles of parabolic troughs powering the entire nation.

Clive Bundy could ride herd on welfare negroes to keep the mirrors polished.

wow, you got it in bad for that man...good grief

 

[NYcarbineer]

And the drug growers in the national forests pay nothing at all. They are allowed to stay without interference by the same BLM now pursuing Bundy. That's selective prosecution. Maybe it is anti white racism.

That is neither true nor relevant if it was true.

The market rate on private lands in Nevada is $16.80.

of course it is as it should be

in a typical private lease a livestock rancher buys complete control of and exclusive access

to a self sufficient production unit such as a complete ranch or a fenced watered pasture


Public range land is virtually unfurnished non exclusive

and requires ranchers to provide their own water fencing and roads

Maintenance and improvement of the grazing lands is paid for out of the grazing fees.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Nevada Cattlemen's Association strongly and unequivocally stands AGAINST Bundy,

despite their own numerous objections to the federal government's management of federal grazing lands:

Nevada cattlemen comment on Bundy/BLM conflict

"...in accordance with the rule of law, we must use the system set forth in our Constitution to change those laws and regulations. Nevada Cattlemen's Association does not condone actions that are outside the law in which citizens take the law into their own hands."

 

[Seawytch]

The federal grazing fee that Bundy refuses to pay is $1.35 per month per cow.

The market rate on private lands in Nevada is $16.80.

Bundy refused to pay for something he was getting at a 90+% discount, at the expense of the taxpayers.

Op-ed: Cliven Bundy is a food-stamp cowboy | The Salt Lake Tribune

Seriously, if Bundy got what he thinks he wants out of this, wouldn't he end up paying more for the grass his moocher cows are grazing? He says he doesn't "recognize" the Federal Government and wants to deal with his local county government...

Most states charge more for their grazing fees than the feds do.

 

[Seawytch]

The Nevada Cattlemen's Association strongly and unequivocally stands AGAINST Bundy,

despite their own numerous objections to the federal government's management of federal grazing lands:

Nevada cattlemen comment on Bundy/BLM conflict

"...in accordance with the rule of law, we must use the system set forth in our Constitution to change those laws and regulations. Nevada Cattlemen's Association does not condone actions that are outside the law in which citizens take the law into their own hands."

Gosh, you mean they believe in doing things lawfully? Imagine that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Nevada Cattlemen's Association strongly and unequivocally stands AGAINST Bundy,

despite their own numerous objections to the federal government's management of federal grazing lands:

Nevada cattlemen comment on Bundy/BLM conflict

"...in accordance with the rule of law, we must use the system set forth in our Constitution to change those laws and regulations. Nevada Cattlemen's Association does not condone actions that are outside the law in which citizens take the law into their own hands."

Gosh, you mean they believe in doing things lawfully? Imagine that.

Bundy is screwing them as much as he's screwing anyone else.

 

[jon_berzerk]

That is neither true nor relevant if it was true.

The market rate on private lands in Nevada is $16.80.

of course it is as it should be

in a typical private lease a livestock rancher buys complete control of and exclusive access

to a self sufficient production unit such as a complete ranch or a fenced watered pasture


Public range land is virtually unfurnished non exclusive

and requires ranchers to provide their own water fencing and roads

Maintenance and improvement of the grazing lands is paid for out of the grazing fees.

bullshit

any fencing laying water and any roads to the cattle is paid for by the rancher

plus the rancher has non exclusive rights to the land (other cattle and creature use it)

this is why it costs less

 

[NYcarbineer]

The market rate on private lands in Nevada is $16.80.

of course it is as it should be

in a typical private lease a livestock rancher buys complete control of and exclusive access

to a self sufficient production unit such as a complete ranch or a fenced watered pasture


Public range land is virtually unfurnished non exclusive

and requires ranchers to provide their own water fencing and roads

Maintenance and improvement of the grazing lands is paid for out of the grazing fees.

bullshit

any fencing laying water and any roads to the cattle is paid for by the rancher

plus the rancher has non exclusive rights to the land (other cattle and creature use it)

this is why it costs less

Roads built on federal grazing lands are built by the ranchers in addition to their grazing fees?

 

[1776]

States get duped by the Feds that allowing the Feds to own millions of acres of "wasteland" is in their best interests until scum back in DC see a way to make money for themselves, Hairy Reid being the main culprit.

Reid earmarks roads, bridges, etc to "wasteland" then makes that land commercial land that he helps sell to his friends through his family's law firm/lobbying enterprise....illegal activities. He lines his own pockets and his supporters make a killing too.

Meanwhile some private land owners that have land that could affect those deals end up losing their land from public domain seizures or worse EPA/BLM seizures with bogus cases. But scumbag liberals living in a one bedroom apartment in a city don't give a shit.

 

[flacaltenn]

You think you are making some kind of point because our land managers decided that since land was being over developed in some areas, misused in other areas, under stress in other areas, it would be wise to get ahead of the situation. While realistically concluding that segments of our real estate holding needed to be preserved due to population growth and continued development, our management authority is wisely using all the tools available to set aside and preserve as much property as possible, by whatever means available, including the use of the endangered species act. It is the wise and financially responsible thing to do.
Your comments about cow dung being a good source of food for the tortoise is beyond ridiculous. Just because they eat it doesn't mean it is healthy for them or would even matter if it was. Nor does your dopey idea take into consideration the damages done by cattle trampling and causing destruction to the ecology that has a negative effect on other forms of wildlife that ultimately effect the well being of the desert tortoise.

You never addressed WHY the Feds pulled the funding for the premier tortoise rehab center in that region. They TOOK responsibility for rehab of those "threatened" tortoises, and NOW they will just kill the ones that actually need help.. Because they can't come up a couple MILLION bucks? Seriously??? They are sitting on $TRILLs of land in Nevada and cant' afford a tortoise rehab center???


But the larger failure -- you can EASILY see on a map.. The general MISMANAGEMENT of tortoise ranges for over 50 years. An ATOMIC BOMB testing range, A major military bombing range sharing the same boundaries with a "desert wildlife preserve" should be clues. But stories you probably HAVEN'T heard about land mismanagement at the BLM for this region are even stranger. Like allowing the import of NON-NATIVE bush-eating beetles to control non-native brush. The SAME BRUSH that is the preferred nesting material for a type of Swallow that is threatened on the Virgin River habitat..

Got to make the RANCHERS the issue.. And not SPEAK of the tortoises or the the GOVERNMENT abuse thereof -- unless you have the media help you to make a bunch a ranchers the BAD GUYS who are solely responsible for habitat decline.. Go look at the map of Govt military complexes in Southern Nevada and tell me how neccessary it really was to shut down ranching activity in the Gold Butte/BunkerVille allotments..

 

[flacaltenn]

We keep hearing about these rancher neighbors that have been driven out of business. What does that mean? Did they loose their property? Why didn't the local or state cattlemen's association stand with Bundy? Every time I search for news reports on the topic of ranchers being driven out of business I get links to Glenn Beck crap that has absolutely no links to any kind of actual source. So what is the source of this claim about Bundy's neighboring ranchers being driven out of business?

There are no more grazing permits around Bunkerville. The ranges have been closed. Only important thing about Bundy is he doesnt feel as stupid as the 15 other ranchers who followed the BLM regs. That land is also now largely closed to the 6 Mill recreational visitorsa year. Essentially the Feds Have killed off all commerce and a few towns. And the BLM needed a diversion to the story and made it about the only guy who stood up to their arrogance.

OK, so you don't have the link I requested but you have some other claims that you have decided to provide, but no links to those claims either. I don't even need a link. A clue as to what to use for search purposes would do. I find it hard to believe that such an important factor in this story, the claim of rancher neighbors of Bundy being driven out of business, would not be easy to confirm or even reported in a reliable news source.
Your claim of the land being "largely closed to the 6 Mill recreational visitors a year." seems to be just another example of how Bundy supporters are willing to use absolutely ridiculous and fraudulent made up nonsense to mislead the public about the facts related to this story. Makes any of your comments on this subject highly suspicious and in the "not credible" category.

I cannot be responsible for you total lack of background on the piss poor mgt practices of the BLM in Nevada, but I will help you on any SPECIFIC items that you don't know.

The claims I have made in this thread are:

1) The Government blew away vast amounts of Desert tortoises in the 1000 Atom Bomb tests on a range just the other side of Las Vegas for 40 years.. Those that MIGHT have survived are now dancing between bombing runs on the OTHER MAJOR govt controlled holding on the East of side Las Vegas.

2) The only major VIABLE tortoise rehab facility is closing due to lack of COMMITMENT AND INTEREST on the part of the Federal Govt. They are in the process of euthanizing HUNDREDS of tortoises in their care. A rehab facility is SUPPOSED to rehab animals, not close down and euthanize the patients.

3) The history of land mgt practices from the BLM sucks WAAAAY worse than the processes of the Forestry service. In fact, even the Forestry Service turns up it's nose at the mismanagement over at BLM.

4) There are no more grazing permits AT ALL in the Gold Butte/Bunkerville area. ALL ranching is now off limits. And Bundy is just the patsy because he's the only one left to protest the eviction.

5) Other access for land use there are severely curtailed because the BLM NEEDS that area as an "offset" to compensate for allowing of massive solar installations elsewhere in the desert tortoise range. Places like IvanPah Solar were developed by spending $Mills to relocate and REMOVE tortoises from a 10 mile radius around this massive solar farm. The addition of ROADS, pipelines, traffic, and fencing had a TREMENDOUS impact on this species in that area. More are planned, the ranchers took it in the butt for these developers.

6) No more ranching, and reduced recreational access to these areas puts a severe strain on the economy and employment in the surrounding towns.

The ARROGANCE of these actions is indefensible. That's why Bundy is made to be the story, instead of the mismanagement and lack of sensitivity to DIVERSITY in land use for the 83% of Nevada that the Feds own.. To a leftist -- SERFDOM is great and noble. That's probably why you don't have a issue with the REAL STORY..............