Should Roger Maris be in the Baseball Hall of Fame ?

[rightwinger]

Roger Maris comes in 90th in at bats per homerun just ahead of Todd Hundley. There are dozens ahead of him on the list who are not in the HOF

Career Leaders &amp Records for AB per HR - Baseball-Reference.com

 

[protectionist]

Mattingly was a greater Yankee and not in the HOF.

Marris had a record season, other than that, his numbers were average

Maris is notd for home runs, as were other players (who ARE in the HOF) What you seem to be missing is that if Maris' numbers were average, than the HR numbers of Stan Musial, Carl Yastremski, Mel Ott, Reggie Jackson, Ernie Banks, Eddie Mathews, Eddie Murray, and Dave Winfield were even LESS than average, because theirs were less than Maris.

So are you saying they shouldn't be in the HOF ? If not, then you're contradicting yourself.

Those you named had outstanding careers. Maris did not. He had 60,61 and 62.
Looking at his stats, there are very few years he played a complete season. 120 games was a typical Maris year.
Maris is not even close to HOF

What a purely STUPID post. 100% refuted by the very post it quoted. This is too respectable a discussion to be lowered by such nonsense.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Maris doesn't own the single season HR record. Six times a players has hit more than sixty-one HRs in a season. Yes, the consensus is that the players' were all on steroids. BUT--MLB has not stricken the record or even put asterisks next to them.

Just sayin__

Single-Season Leaders &amp Records for Home Runs - Baseball-Reference.com

 

[protectionist]

Roger Maris comes in 90th in at bats per homerun just ahead of Todd Hundley. There are dozens ahead of him on the list who are not in the HOF

Career Leaders &amp Records for AB per HR - Baseball-Reference.com

I wouldn't call that a relevant list since it contains lot of guys (Like Evan Longoria) who are still active players, and some others who are retired (Jim Thome, Chipper Jones), but not long enough to be in the HOF.
If you narrowed the list down to retired players, maybe we could discuss it (noting that none of those guys ever hit 61 HRs in a season)

I got a feeling where this thread is heading is a debate over how many years (and/or at bats) a player should have, to be in the HOF. I'd say one game should qualify, if the guy did something sensational enough (like hit 4 HRs in one game, or pitch a perfect game in the World Series) They shouldn't necessarily be in the HOF for their career, but just for what they did briefly. I don't see why the HOF couldn't have a section in it, just for that.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

I stopped respecting HOFs a long time ago anyways. I don't care who is in them anymore.

 

[protectionist]

Maris doesn't own the single season HR record. Six times a players has hit more than sixty-one HRs in a season. Yes, the consensus is that the players' were all on steroids. BUT--MLB has not stricken the record or even put asterisks next to them.

Just sayin__

Single-Season Leaders &amp Records for Home Runs - Baseball-Reference.com

This isn't an issue. As many (if not most baseball) fans feel, it matters less what MLB officially says, than just what common sense says, and that is that PED players cannot have performance records. The only records a PED player can have is >>

1. What team(s) they played for.
2. The dates.
3. What position(s) in the field they played.

I talk to serious long-time baseball fans all the time. When the subject of Chris Davis possibly reaching 61 HRs last season came up, every one agreed if he did, he would be the new record holder. If any one suggested Bonds , Sosa , or McGwire has surpassed the 61 record, they would have been laughed out of the building.

 

[Meathead]

I stopped respecting HOFs a long time ago anyways. I don't care who is in them anymore.

I feel the same way about the Nobel Peace Prize, but I can't help but feel Maris deserves HoF much more than Obama deserves a Nobel, but there you go. If Maris had been black there would be no question, he would have probably gotten them both!

 

[rightwinger]

To make the HOF you need career numbers that meet gold standards (500 HR, 3000 hits, 300 wins) or else be a dominant player for an era. Sandy Koufax didn't have career numbers but was the dominant player of the early 60s

Maris had one monster year and two good years. Nice but not HOF

 

[protectionist]

To make the HOF you need career numbers that meet gold standards (500 HR, 3000 hits, 300 wins) or else be a dominant player for an era. Sandy Koufax didn't have career numbers but was the dominant player of the early 60s

Maris had one monster year and two good years. Nice but not HOF

You keep repeating the same thing that has already been thoroughly refuted in this thread. You're just stupid poster, and not worth my time. What the HOF says "you need" is stupid. You can't seem to catch on to that, even though I've already explained it. Dude, 12 years IS a career, and 275 HRs is very good. So is Maris' 42 triples (more than double what Mattingly had, despite far less at at bats)

Example 1 > Ron Santo was elected to the HOF 2 years ago. He only played 14 years. and had states inferior to Maris by % in HRs, runs scored, and slugging average. He also played in a stadium that was a shoebox, compared to the mammoth old Yankee Stadium, with much longer fences.

Example 2 - Joe Gordon is in the HOF. He played only 11 years with slightly more at bats than Maris. Averaged out, their numbers are very close on all the categories I mentioned before, except HR% where Maris is much better. Bottom line is Gordon is in the HOF, and he didn't hit 61 HRs, did he ? Also, Gordon did win one MVP award, however if you compare his stats that year (1942) they are dwarfed by Ted Williams' stats, leaving one to wonder how Gordon ever got that MVP.

Example 3 - Bruce Sutter - in HOF. Played 12 years. Same as Maris. Although he had a fine ERA, his won loss record is under .500. He lost more games than he won.

Example 4 - Kirby Puckett- elected to HOF first year of eligibility. Played 12 years, same as Maris. Percentagewise Maris tops him in 5 offensive categories (runs scored, triples, HRs, RBIs, and walks). Is equal in total bases and slugging %, with slight edge to Puckett in on base %.

Conclusion: from this and other stats already mentioned on other players. If Maris is not HOF material, neither are an awful lot of guys who are already there.

 

[rightwinger]

To make the HOF you need career numbers that meet gold standards (500 HR, 3000 hits, 300 wins) or else be a dominant player for an era. Sandy Koufax didn't have career numbers but was the dominant player of the early 60s

Maris had one monster year and two good years. Nice but not HOF

You keep repeating the same thing that has already been thoroughly refuted in this thread. You're just stupid poster, and not worth my time. What the HOF says "you need" is stupid. You can't seem to catch on to that, even though I've already explained it. Dude, 12 years IS a career, and 275 HRs is very good. So is Maris' 42 triples (more than double what Mattingly had, despite far less at at bats)

Self proclamed victories tend to be shallow don't you think?

You have refuted nothing and have yet to make a valid case that makes Maris even close to HOF. 275 lifetime HRs is not impressive. Neither is a .260 BA
The HOF has spoken on Maris for 15 years........he is not HOF material

 

[protectionist]

Just for the record - 1942 stats >>

Joe Gordon - 538 at bats, Ted Williams - 522 at bats

Batting avg - G -.322, W- .356

Runs scored G - 88, W- 141

Home runs G - 18, W - 36

RBIs G - 103 W - 137

Walks G - 79 W - 145

On base % G - .409 W - .499

Slugging % G - .491 W - .648

Strikeouts G - 95 W - 51

Total Bases G - 264 W - 338

 

[rightwinger]

To make the HOF you need career numbers that meet gold standards (500 HR, 3000 hits, 300 wins) or else be a dominant player for an era. Sandy Koufax didn't have career numbers but was the dominant player of the early 60s

Maris had one monster year and two good years. Nice but not HOF

You keep repeating the same thing that has already been thoroughly refuted in this thread. You're just stupid poster, and not worth my time. What the HOF says "you need" is stupid. You can't seem to catch on to that, even though I've already explained it. Dude, 12 years IS a career, and 275 HRs is very good. So is Maris' 42 triples (more than double what Mattingly had, despite far less at at bats)

Example 1 > Ron Santo was elected to the HOF 2 years ago. He only played 14 years. and had states inferior to Maris by % in HRs, runs scored, and slugging average. He also played in a stadium that was a shoebox, compared to the mammoth old Yankee Stadium, with much longer fences.

Example 2 - Joe Gordon is in the HOF. He played only 11 years with slightly more at bats than Maris. Averaged out, their numbers are very close on all the categories I mentioned before, except HR% where Maris is much better. Bottom line is Gordon is in the HOF, and he didn't hit 61 HRs, did he ? Also, Gordon did win one MVP award, however if you compare his stats that year (1942) they are dwarfed by Ted Williams' stats, leaving one to wonder how Gordon ever got that MVP.

Example 3 - Bruce Sutter - in HOF. Played 12 years. Same as Maris. Although he had a fine ERA, his won loss record is under .500. He lost more games than he won.

Example 4 - Kirby Puckett- elected to HOF first year of eligibility. Played 12 years, same as Maris. Percentagewise Maris tops him in 5 offensive categories (runs scored, triples, HRs, RBIs, and walks). Is equal in total bases and slugging %, with slight edge to Puckett in on base %.

Conclusion: from this and other stats already mentioned on other players. If Maris is not HOF material, neither are an awful lot of guys who are already there.

No argument from me

I wouldn't have put them in the HOF

 

[protectionist]

To make the HOF you need career numbers that meet gold standards (500 HR, 3000 hits, 300 wins) or else be a dominant player for an era. Sandy Koufax didn't have career numbers but was the dominant player of the early 60s

Maris had one monster year and two good years. Nice but not HOF

You keep repeating the same thing that has already been thoroughly refuted in this thread. You're just stupid poster, and not worth my time. What the HOF says "you need" is stupid. You can't seem to catch on to that, even though I've already explained it. Dude, 12 years IS a career, and 275 HRs is very good. So is Maris' 42 triples (more than double what Mattingly had, despite far less at at bats)

Self proclamed victories tend to be shallow don't you think?

You have refuted nothing and have yet to make a valid case that makes Maris even close to HOF. 275 lifetime HRs is not impressive. Neither is a .260 BA
The HOF has spoken on Maris for 15 years........he is not HOF material

1. You're talking about 275 HRs. I'm talking about 18.5 HR efficiency.

2. You're talking about .260 lifetime batting average. I mentioned the more important on base average, which Maris at .345 is pretty good (from Maris' tendency to draw lots of walks), as well as numerous other stats which compare equally to, or better than, a lengthy list of HOF residents. (refuted you)

3. Who cares what the stupid HOF says ? They (in New York state) were part of that anti-Maris bias in New York, that favored Mickey Mantle over Maris, and the stigma never went away. Similar to the sportswriters who voted Joe Gordon MVP over the far superior Ted Williams in 1942, just because they didn't like Williams. I was born in New York City in 1946. I grew up with the Mantle-Maris rivalry. I remember the press intrusions and influences. You may know what I'm talking about. On the other hand, you may be clueless to it all.
You're entitled to your opinion. OK. No law against being wrong.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Maris doesn't own the single season HR record. Six times a players has hit more than sixty-one HRs in a season. Yes, the consensus is that the players' were all on steroids. BUT--MLB has not stricken the record or even put asterisks next to them.

Just sayin__

Single-Season Leaders &amp Records for Home Runs - Baseball-Reference.com

This isn't an issue. As many (if not most baseball) fans feel, it matters less what MLB officially says, than just what common sense says, and that is that PED players cannot have performance records. The only records a PED player can have is >>

1. What team(s) they played for.
2. The dates.
3. What position(s) in the field they played.

I talk to serious long-time baseball fans all the time. When the subject of Chris Davis possibly reaching 61 HRs last season came up, every one agreed if he did, he would be the new record holder. If any one suggested Bonds , Sosa , or McGwire has surpassed the 61 record, they would have been laughed out of the building.

Well__ MLB has dignified the record holders by allowing them to keep the records. And if MLB is a laughing stock, then who cares who is in their HOF.

 

[rightwinger]

You keep repeating the same thing that has already been thoroughly refuted in this thread. You're just stupid poster, and not worth my time. What the HOF says "you need" is stupid. You can't seem to catch on to that, even though I've already explained it. Dude, 12 years IS a career, and 275 HRs is very good. So is Maris' 42 triples (more than double what Mattingly had, despite far less at at bats)

Self proclamed victories tend to be shallow don't you think?

You have refuted nothing and have yet to make a valid case that makes Maris even close to HOF. 275 lifetime HRs is not impressive. Neither is a .260 BA
The HOF has spoken on Maris for 15 years........he is not HOF material

1. You're talking about 275 HRs. I'm talking about 18.5 HR efficiency.

2. You're talking about .260 lifetime batting average. I mentioned the more important on base average, which Maris at .345 is pretty good (from Maris' tendency to draw lots of walks), as well as numerous other stats which compare equally to, or better than, a lengthy list of HOF residents. (refuted you)

3. Who cares what the stupid HOF says ? They (in New York state) were part of that anti-Maris bias in New York, that favored Mickey Mantle over Maris, and the stigma never went away. Similar to the sportswriters who voted Joe Gordon MVP over the far superior Ted Williams in 1942, just because they didn't like Williams. I was born in New York City in 1946. I grew up with the Mantle-Maris rivalry. I remember the press intrusions and influences. You may know what I'm talking about. On the other hand, you may be clueless to it all.
You're entitled to your opinion. OK. No law against being wrong.

18.5 AB per homeruns puts him 90th on the all time list. Not enough to put him in the Hall

Maris was injury prone and rarely played a full season in his career. See Cal Ripken

Veterans comittee is a joke where the guys buddies get to vote him in even though he was passed over in official voting. Veterans candidates should be rare

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Self proclamed victories tend to be shallow don't you think?

You have refuted nothing and have yet to make a valid case that makes Maris even close to HOF. 275 lifetime HRs is not impressive. Neither is a .260 BA
The HOF has spoken on Maris for 15 years........he is not HOF material

1. You're talking about 275 HRs. I'm talking about 18.5 HR efficiency.

2. You're talking about .260 lifetime batting average. I mentioned the more important on base average, which Maris at .345 is pretty good (from Maris' tendency to draw lots of walks), as well as numerous other stats which compare equally to, or better than, a lengthy list of HOF residents. (refuted you)

3. Who cares what the stupid HOF says ? They (in New York state) were part of that anti-Maris bias in New York, that favored Mickey Mantle over Maris, and the stigma never went away. Similar to the sportswriters who voted Joe Gordon MVP over the far superior Ted Williams in 1942, just because they didn't like Williams. I was born in New York City in 1946. I grew up with the Mantle-Maris rivalry. I remember the press intrusions and influences. You may know what I'm talking about. On the other hand, you may be clueless to it all.
You're entitled to your opinion. OK. No law against being wrong.

18.5 AB per homeruns puts him 90th on the all time list. Not enough to put him in the Hall

Maris was injury prone and rarely played a full season in his career. See Cal Ripken

Veterans comittee is a joke where the guys buddies get to vote him in even though he was passed over in official voting. Veterans candidates should be rare

There are worse players than Maris in the HOF. Furthermore, there is no official criteria for being in the HOF. A guy like Maris who did break a great 'record' that still stands is worthy of being in the HOF.

From a career numbers standpoint though; yea he's not even better than Garret Anderson who I'd love to see in the HOF haha.

 

[protectionist]

Maris doesn't own the single season HR record. Six times a players has hit more than sixty-one HRs in a season. Yes, the consensus is that the players' were all on steroids. BUT--MLB has not stricken the record or even put asterisks next to them.

Just sayin__

Single-Season Leaders &amp Records for Home Runs - Baseball-Reference.com

This isn't an issue. As many (if not most baseball) fans feel, it matters less what MLB officially says, than just what common sense says, and that is that PED players cannot have performance records. The only records a PED player can have is >>

1. What team(s) they played for.
2. The dates.
3. What position(s) in the field they played.

I talk to serious long-time baseball fans all the time. When the subject of Chris Davis possibly reaching 61 HRs last season came up, every one agreed if he did, he would be the new record holder. If any one suggested Bonds , Sosa , or McGwire has surpassed the 61 record, they would have been laughed out of the building.

Well__ MLB has dignified the record holders by allowing them to keep the records. And if MLB is a laughing stock, then who cares who is in their HOF.

They have diminished themselves, in a number of ways. They are destroying the integrity of the game. Hopefully, future managers of the HOF will have sense to correct the wrongs, and the biggest thing is to routinely test players for steroids.

 

[protectionist]

Self proclamed victories tend to be shallow don't you think?

You have refuted nothing and have yet to make a valid case that makes Maris even close to HOF. 275 lifetime HRs is not impressive. Neither is a .260 BA
The HOF has spoken on Maris for 15 years........he is not HOF material

1. You're talking about 275 HRs. I'm talking about 18.5 HR efficiency.

2. You're talking about .260 lifetime batting average. I mentioned the more important on base average, which Maris at .345 is pretty good (from Maris' tendency to draw lots of walks), as well as numerous other stats which compare equally to, or better than, a lengthy list of HOF residents. (refuted you)

3. Who cares what the stupid HOF says ? They (in New York state) were part of that anti-Maris bias in New York, that favored Mickey Mantle over Maris, and the stigma never went away. Similar to the sportswriters who voted Joe Gordon MVP over the far superior Ted Williams in 1942, just because they didn't like Williams. I was born in New York City in 1946. I grew up with the Mantle-Maris rivalry. I remember the press intrusions and influences. You may know what I'm talking about. On the other hand, you may be clueless to it all.
You're entitled to your opinion. OK. No law against being wrong.

18.5 AB per homeruns puts him 90th on the all time list. Not enough to put him in the Hall

NO, it does NOT put him 90th on an alltime list. Why do you come back and say things that have already been answered ? Have you been reading the posts ?

 

[protectionist]

1. You're talking about 275 HRs. I'm talking about 18.5 HR efficiency.

2. You're talking about .260 lifetime batting average. I mentioned the more important on base average, which Maris at .345 is pretty good (from Maris' tendency to draw lots of walks), as well as numerous other stats which compare equally to, or better than, a lengthy list of HOF residents. (refuted you)

3. Who cares what the stupid HOF says ? They (in New York state) were part of that anti-Maris bias in New York, that favored Mickey Mantle over Maris, and the stigma never went away. Similar to the sportswriters who voted Joe Gordon MVP over the far superior Ted Williams in 1942, just because they didn't like Williams. I was born in New York City in 1946. I grew up with the Mantle-Maris rivalry. I remember the press intrusions and influences. You may know what I'm talking about. On the other hand, you may be clueless to it all.
You're entitled to your opinion. OK. No law against being wrong.

18.5 AB per homeruns puts him 90th on the all time list. Not enough to put him in the Hall

Maris was injury prone and rarely played a full season in his career. See Cal Ripken

Veterans comittee is a joke where the guys buddies get to vote him in even though he was passed over in official voting. Veterans candidates should be rare

There are worse players than Maris in the HOF. Furthermore, there is no official criteria for being in the HOF. A guy like Maris who did break a great 'record' that still stands is worthy of being in the HOF.

From a career numbers standpoint though; yea he's not even better than Garret Anderson who I'd love to see in the HOF haha.

That's not as relevant as the point I already made that, over a career, Maris WAS BETTER THAN a list of guys who are in the Hall.

 

[rightwinger]

1. You're talking about 275 HRs. I'm talking about 18.5 HR efficiency.

2. You're talking about .260 lifetime batting average. I mentioned the more important on base average, which Maris at .345 is pretty good (from Maris' tendency to draw lots of walks), as well as numerous other stats which compare equally to, or better than, a lengthy list of HOF residents. (refuted you)

3. Who cares what the stupid HOF says ? They (in New York state) were part of that anti-Maris bias in New York, that favored Mickey Mantle over Maris, and the stigma never went away. Similar to the sportswriters who voted Joe Gordon MVP over the far superior Ted Williams in 1942, just because they didn't like Williams. I was born in New York City in 1946. I grew up with the Mantle-Maris rivalry. I remember the press intrusions and influences. You may know what I'm talking about. On the other hand, you may be clueless to it all.
You're entitled to your opinion. OK. No law against being wrong.

18.5 AB per homeruns puts him 90th on the all time list. Not enough to put him in the Hall

NO, it does NOT put him 90th on an alltime list. Why do you come back and say things that have already been answered ? Have you been reading the posts ?

90th is still 90th. Right up there with the great Todd Hundley

Career Leaders &amp Records for AB per HR - Baseball-Reference.com