Should Japan be allowed nuclear weapons?

[martybegan]

Yes, the Japanese empire were fascist....which is why they aligned themselves with Nazis....

Fascists have a habit of doing that.....like today's fascists...


Still doesn't change the fact that the Nazi sympathizers in the US at that time identified with Germans more than the Japanese...


But keep pretending racism wasn't a thing back then...

What Nazi sympathizers?

I just said the Japanese were AS RACIST AS US back then, you doddering twit-twat.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

We would have to end the war with the Soviets are far east as possible.

Nope, we wouldn't have.....

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

What Nazi sympathizers?

I just said the Japanese were AS RACIST AS US back then, you doddering twit-twat.

So now you are going to play stupid huh

American Nazism and Madison Square Garden | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

Before World War II, the German-American Bund was one of the most successful pro-Nazi organizations in the United States. On February 20, 1939, American Nazis gathered at Madison Square Garden for a mass rally for “true Americanism.”

www.nationalww2museum.org

Now you are going to pretend there was a whole Fascist movement in the US, all the way to the point they were planning to overthrow government, all in their allegiance to Nazis in Germany?



Are you going to pretend we weren't pulled into WW2 kicking and screaming because of how many anti-semitic Nazi sympathizers were in this country? They damn sure wasn't doing it because of their love for the Japanese...

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

So you would have been perfectly ok with nuking Vietnam, because after all..why not?


Anything to spare American lives.....Since invading that country was just something we couldn't resist....matter of fact, we can just use that as a justification to nuke all of the other countries we invaded.


It's just odd that all of these countries that would get nuked will usually be places like a Vietnam, Iraq, you know, those others...

And you wonder why other countries seek to have nuclear weapons.....

LOL! Uh no. History much? You have to judge things in the context of their times.
We shouldn't have even been fighting in Vietnam..or at least, we should have been giving aid to Ho and gaining a foothold in Asia.

You're leaping to whole bunch of assumptions..if I may--Japan was not the first planned target..Germany was. Had Germany not surrendered..it was planned to smoke Hitler and most of Berlin with him.

As for the highlighted portion of your post--you have made an errant assumption based on nothing at all, just saying.
Also, no...those primitive nations would be the last places to target with nukes..as killing a fly with a sledgehammer is seldom of profit. Which, after all, is the main reason our country finds itself at war with developing nations to begin with.

As to why other nations wish nuclear weapons..well, they want to be part of the big boys club, don't we all? I don't wonder at all..in fact, I'd totally expect it.

The logic of 1945 does not carry over to 2022. I pray it never does.

 

[martybegan]

Nope, we wouldn't have.....

Yes, we would have. The government spent billions on the bombs, and to not use them to end the war early would have been a crime on EITHER front.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

LOL! Uh no. History much? You have to judge things in the context of their times.
We shouldn't have even been fighting in Vietnam..or at least, we should have been giving aid to Ho and gaining a foothold in Asia.

You're leaping to whole bunch of assumptions..if I may--Japan was not the first planned target..Germany was. Had Germany not surrendered..it was planned to smoke Hitler and most of Berlin with him.

As for the highlighted portion of your post--you have made an errant assumption based on nothing at all, just saying.
Also, no...those primitive nations would be the last places to target with nukes..as killing a fly with a sledgehammer is seldom of profit. Which, after all, is the main reason our country finds itself at war with developing nations to begin with.

As to why other nations wish nuclear weapons..well, they want to be part of the big boys club, don't we all? I don't wonder at all..in fact, I'd totally expect it.

The logic of 1945 does not carry over to 2022. I pray it never does.

And in the context of the time, it was Eisenhower's own top military guy who said dropping the bomb had no MATERIAL BENEFIT to their war effort...is he lying?

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Yes, we would have. The government spent billions on the bombs, and to not use them to end the war early would have been a crime on EITHER front.

I look forward to your support of Russia nuking Ukraine - because after all, it would be a crime not to.....anything to end the war early.

 

[martybegan]

So now you are going to play stupid huh

American Nazism and Madison Square Garden | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

Before World War II, the German-American Bund was one of the most successful pro-Nazi organizations in the United States. On February 20, 1939, American Nazis gathered at Madison Square Garden for a mass rally for “true Americanism.”

www.nationalww2museum.org

Now you are going to pretend there was a whole Fascist movement in the US, all the way to the point they were planning to overthrow government, all in their allegiance to Nazis in Germany?



Are you going to pretend we weren't pulled into WW2 kicking and screaming because of how many anti-semitic Nazi sympathizers were in this country? They damn sure wasn't doing it because of their love for the Japanese...

It was a fringe movement that quickly died out the second we entered WWII.

They had as much of a chance of overthrowing the government as the J6 people did, i.e. ZERO.

America before the Cold War was generally isolationist, happy with the few colonies we had, and didn't want to get drawn into a European war. That being said the vast majority preferred the Allies to the Axis.

 

[martybegan]

I look forward to your support of Russia nuking Ukraine - because after all, it would be a crime not to.....anything to end the war early.

Different time, different situation.

At the time nukes were small, and never used before. They were considered just really big bombs. The actual effects weren't known UNTIL they were used.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

It was a fringe movement that quickly died out the second we entered WWII.

They had as much of a chance of overthrowing the government as the J6 people did, i.e. ZERO.

America before the Cold War was generally isolationist, happy with the few colonies we had, and didn't want to get drawn into a European war. That being said the vast majority preferred the Allies to the Axis.

It wasn't fringe......it was very very prominent....
Folks called the Nazis in Germany a fringe movement, until they weren't
Why do you folks always seek to minimize shit like that??

 

[martybegan]

And in the context of the time, it was Eisenhower's own top military guy who said dropping the bomb had no MATERIAL BENEFIT to their war effort...is he lying?

One guy.

Which guy are we talking about?

 

[martybegan]

It wasn't fringe......it was very very prominent....
Folks called the Nazis in Germany a fringe movement, until they weren't
Why do you folks always seek to minimize shit like that??

It was fringe.

Why do you idiots always blow it out of proportion?

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

We wouldn't have nuked Germany; even if those nukes were available.

Simply not true.

Were there any plans to nuke Germany in WWII?

Answer (1 of 13): Certainly, there were plans. The question is how serious they were. First, there was never any serious question about using the bomb. It was widely expected that any use of the Atomic Bomb would rapidly end World War II, which had already killed 50 million people. Ending the wa...

www.quora.com

As the link says..no way to know. A lot of things could have gone one way or the other. Roosevelt's policy of 'Germany First' might have held sway..or...being that he died and Truman became President..maybe not.
Dresden was discussed as a target..but it was destroyed in the firebombing. The policy was to pick a 'virgin city' one that had not yet taken serious war damage. Japan had more of those, as Europe was pretty much ravaged.
Anyway, with the German surrender the point became moot.

I'm sensing a racial tone to your argument?

 

[Batcat]

They appear to be building up their military strength. Not for reasons of a new Imperialism, but as a defense against China, North Korea, and Russia. Should they be allowed to have nuclear weapons in their military arsenal as a deterrent?

Japan relying on the United States for protection from China, Russia and North Korea is like me depending on the police to save me from home invaders.

I prefer to have a my own 12 gauge double barreled coach gun for home defense rather than wait for the law to show up.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Different time, different situation.

At the time nukes were small, and never used before. They were considered just really big bombs. The actual effects weren't known UNTIL they were used.

So, Russia should just use smaller nukes then...cool

One guy.

Which guy are we talking about?

"Seven of the United States’ eight five-star Army and Navy officers in 1945 agreed with the Navy’s vitriolic assessment. Generals Dwight Eisenhower, Douglas MacArthur and Henry “Hap” Arnold and Admirals William Leahy, Chester Nimitz, Ernest King, and William Halsey are on record stating that the atomic bombs were either militarily unnecessary, morally reprehensible, or both.


No one was more impassioned in his condemnation than Leahy, Truman’s chief of staff. He wrote in his memoir “that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan."

Opinion: U.S. leaders knew we didn't have to drop atomic bombs on Japan to win the war. We did it anyway

We've been taught that the U.S. had to drop atomic bombs on Japan to end World War II. Historical evidence shows Japan would have surrendered anyway.

www.latimes.com

They were probably a bunch of communist anti-american libs tho....

But hey, for what the Japanese did to the people in China, they sorta deserved to get nuked.....but it wasn't needed to end the war....it was needed to send a message to the rest of the world that we are the new super power now.....

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

And in the context of the time, it was Eisenhower's own top military guy who said dropping the bomb had no MATERIAL BENEFIT to their war effort...is he lying?

Define 'material benefit'?
Certainly, dropping the bomb saved American lives..if you assume the other option was to invade Japan.
At the time..that was the only other option. We can argue otherwise from our 70+ year perspective--but everything I've read says that those were the only two viable choices.

 

[Batcat]

They appear to be building up their military strength. Not for reasons of a new Imperialism, but as a defense against China, North Korea, and Russia. Should they be allowed to have nuclear weapons in their military arsenal as a deterrent?

Japan relying on the United States for protection from China, Russia and North Korea is like me depending on the police to save me from home invaders.

I prefer to have a my own 12 gauge double barreled coach gun and a couple revolvers for home defense rather than wait for the law to show up.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

So, Russia should just use smaller nukes then...cool




"Seven of the United States’ eight five-star Army and Navy officers in 1945 agreed with the Navy’s vitriolic assessment. Generals Dwight Eisenhower, Douglas MacArthur and Henry “Hap” Arnold and Admirals William Leahy, Chester Nimitz, Ernest King, and William Halsey are on record stating that the atomic bombs were either militarily unnecessary, morally reprehensible, or both.


No one was more impassioned in his condemnation than Leahy, Truman’s chief of staff. He wrote in his memoir “that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan."

Opinion: U.S. leaders knew we didn't have to drop atomic bombs on Japan to win the war. We did it anyway

We've been taught that the U.S. had to drop atomic bombs on Japan to end World War II. Historical evidence shows Japan would have surrendered anyway.

www.latimes.com

They were probably a bunch of communist anti-american libs tho....

But hey, for what the Japanese did to the people in China, they sorta deserved to get nuked.....but it wasn't needed to end the war....it was needed to send a message to the rest of the world that we are the new super power now.....

Hindsight being 20/20.

And politics between the Army and the Navy also being what they were, 1945.

Again, the context of the times.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Simply not true.

Were there any plans to nuke Germany in WWII?

Answer (1 of 13): Certainly, there were plans. The question is how serious they were. First, there was never any serious question about using the bomb. It was widely expected that any use of the Atomic Bomb would rapidly end World War II, which had already killed 50 million people. Ending the wa...

www.quora.com

As the link says..no way to know. A lot of things could have gone one way or the other. Roosevelt's policy of 'Germany First' might have held sway..or...being that he died and Truman became President..maybe not.
Dresden was discussed as a target..but it was destroyed in the firebombing. The policy was to pick a 'virgin city' one that had not yet taken serious war damage. Japan had more of those, as Europe was pretty much ravaged.
Anyway, with the German surrender the point became moot.

I'm sensing a racial tone to your argument?

Germany wouldn't have been nuked.....in fact, no European country will ever have to worry about being nuked or invaded by us...ever.....



And we seen that when a country was invaded there (Ukraine), we have more than our share of sympathizers in this country who cheerlead for the other country doing the invading....


BUT I GUARANTEE YOU that a middle Eastern or Asian country couldn't invade a European country under the guise of "Fighting Nazis" and those same people praising putin for fighting Nazis, will praise that country too

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Hindsight being 20/20.

And politics between the Army and the Navy also being what they were, 1945.

Again, the context of the times.

Sounds like a bunch of deflection and excuses to me