CDZ Should firearm training be free for the poor, or at least have a government program for free trainin

[BULLDOG]

Then forgive me.You are completely right to oppose the restriction of gun purchases strictly because someone failed to balance their checkbook. Now, if you can just give me a link to prove that's all it was, we can put this whole silly thing behind us. Until then, it's just a bunch of made up right wing crap about a made up lie.

I never said that all it was

but the legislation was bad because it was too vague and it should have been rescinded.

That's exactly what you said it was.

no I said it allowed people who weren't actually mentally ill to have their right taken away

I used the balancing of a checkbook as an example of that

Exactly. Nobody would have their ability to own guns removed over a balanced checkbook, and making that claim is a blatant lie. Like most right wing claims, that one is manufactured.

the wording of the legislation allowed just that which is why it needed to be rescinded you may trust the fucking government not to do what a vague law allows it to do but the rest of us aren't as naive

Again, you are going to have to show me the wording of the legislation to back that up. I know you have been repeatedly told that, but facts are required.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I never said that all it was

but the legislation was bad because it was too vague and it should have been rescinded.

That's exactly what you said it was.

no I said it allowed people who weren't actually mentally ill to have their right taken away

I used the balancing of a checkbook as an example of that

Exactly. Nobody would have their ability to own guns removed over a balanced checkbook, and making that claim is a blatant lie. Like most right wing claims, that one is manufactured.

the wording of the legislation allowed just that which is why it needed to be rescinded you may trust the fucking government not to do what a vague law allows it to do but the rest of us aren't as naive

Again, you are going to have to show me the wording of the legislation to back that up. I know you have been repeatedly told that, but facts are required.

, we are basing our report on the individual's inability to manage his or her affairs

Federal Register :: Implementation of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007


notice the intentional lack of detail in the term "manage affairs"

Vague laws are too easy to abuse

 

[BULLDOG]

That's exactly what you said it was.

no I said it allowed people who weren't actually mentally ill to have their right taken away

I used the balancing of a checkbook as an example of that

Exactly. Nobody would have their ability to own guns removed over a balanced checkbook, and making that claim is a blatant lie. Like most right wing claims, that one is manufactured.

the wording of the legislation allowed just that which is why it needed to be rescinded you may trust the fucking government not to do what a vague law allows it to do but the rest of us aren't as naive

Again, you are going to have to show me the wording of the legislation to back that up. I know you have been repeatedly told that, but facts are required.

, we are basing our report on the individual's inability to manage his or her affairs

Federal Register :: Implementation of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007


notice the intentional lack of detail in the term "manage affairs"

Vague laws are too easy to abuse

Nothing vague about it. From your link,

a finding that the individual's mental impairment meets or medically equals the requirements of section 12.00 of the Listing of Impairments (Listings) and receipt of benefits through a representative payee.

12.00-Mental Disorders-Adult

Nothing in that allows denial of guns for a screwed up checkbook. I know you are just repeating what you have been told, but you have been told a lie...........AGAIN

 

[Skull Pilot]

no I said it allowed people who weren't actually mentally ill to have their right taken away

I used the balancing of a checkbook as an example of that

Exactly. Nobody would have their ability to own guns removed over a balanced checkbook, and making that claim is a blatant lie. Like most right wing claims, that one is manufactured.

the wording of the legislation allowed just that which is why it needed to be rescinded you may trust the fucking government not to do what a vague law allows it to do but the rest of us aren't as naive

Again, you are going to have to show me the wording of the legislation to back that up. I know you have been repeatedly told that, but facts are required.

, we are basing our report on the individual's inability to manage his or her affairs

Federal Register :: Implementation of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007


notice the intentional lack of detail in the term "manage affairs"

Vague laws are too easy to abuse

Nothing vague about it. From your link,

a finding that the individual's mental impairment meets or medically equals the requirements of section 12.00 of the Listing of Impairments (Listings) and receipt of benefits through a representative payee.

12.00-Mental Disorders-Adult

Nothing in that allows denial of guns for a screwed up checkbook. I know you are just repeating what you have been told, but you have been told a lie...........AGAIN

they'll just call it a neurocognitive disorder

Like I said too much leeway for the government is a bad idea

but you're too naive to see that

 

[BULLDOG]

Exactly. Nobody would have their ability to own guns removed over a balanced checkbook, and making that claim is a blatant lie. Like most right wing claims, that one is manufactured.

the wording of the legislation allowed just that which is why it needed to be rescinded you may trust the fucking government not to do what a vague law allows it to do but the rest of us aren't as naive

Again, you are going to have to show me the wording of the legislation to back that up. I know you have been repeatedly told that, but facts are required.

, we are basing our report on the individual's inability to manage his or her affairs

Federal Register :: Implementation of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007


notice the intentional lack of detail in the term "manage affairs"

Vague laws are too easy to abuse

Nothing vague about it. From your link,

a finding that the individual's mental impairment meets or medically equals the requirements of section 12.00 of the Listing of Impairments (Listings) and receipt of benefits through a representative payee.

12.00-Mental Disorders-Adult

Nothing in that allows denial of guns for a screwed up checkbook. I know you are just repeating what you have been told, but you have been told a lie...........AGAIN

they'll just call it a neurocognitive disorder

Like I said too much leeway for the government is a bad idea

but you're too naive to see that

You got nothing.Your claims have been shot down, but you're too dumb to admit it.

 

[Skull Pilot]

the wording of the legislation allowed just that which is why it needed to be rescinded you may trust the fucking government not to do what a vague law allows it to do but the rest of us aren't as naive

Again, you are going to have to show me the wording of the legislation to back that up. I know you have been repeatedly told that, but facts are required.

, we are basing our report on the individual's inability to manage his or her affairs

Federal Register :: Implementation of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007


notice the intentional lack of detail in the term "manage affairs"

Vague laws are too easy to abuse

Nothing vague about it. From your link,

a finding that the individual's mental impairment meets or medically equals the requirements of section 12.00 of the Listing of Impairments (Listings) and receipt of benefits through a representative payee.

12.00-Mental Disorders-Adult

Nothing in that allows denial of guns for a screwed up checkbook. I know you are just repeating what you have been told, but you have been told a lie...........AGAIN

they'll just call it a neurocognitive disorder

Like I said too much leeway for the government is a bad idea

but you're too naive to see that

You got nothing.Your claims have been shot down, but you're too dumb to admit it.

read the description of neurocognitive disorder in the link and tell me there is not a lot of room in that description

you are naive to the point of mental retardation

 

[Cellblock2429]

This article brings up an interesting idea....since owning a gun is a Right, and any Poll Tax or Literacy Test on a Right is unConstitutional.....if those opposed to gun ownership are worried about guns....should the government offer free training programs for gun owners.....not as a mandate, but as a free courtesy to help those too poor to get the training on their own?

The laughable arguments against constitutional carry - Hot Air

We’re not talking about a privilege which is granted to you as some sort of gift by the government and can just as easily be taken away. It’s a fundamental right which was built into the Constitution and it can only be removed in extreme situations where you have proven that you are too dangerous and/or unstable to be trusted with the right.

--------

All the states should be making sure that education and training for gun safety are available to all their citizens for a reasonable price (if not for free).


But we should also remember that liberals continually try to treat firearms as if they are some mythical totem which is somehow different from every other potentially dangerous tool crafted by the hand of man.


Frankly, I don’t think you should be using a chainsaw in your back yard until you’ve had at least some level of training on how to employ one safely and effectively. But the responsibility for that falls on you. And if you wind up injuring yourself or others or causing property damage when you drop a tree on your neighbor’s house, you’re the one stuck paying the price.

/---- They taught gun saftey in High School up until 1963. The J FK assassination ended it over night.

 

[Cellblock2429]

I agree completely. There is a constitutional right to own a gun if you so choose, so the government should pay so that constitutionally granted right can be enjoyed as safely as possible. Of course, that means that the right to an abortion, which is also a constitutional right if the woman so chooses, should also be paid for by the government so that constitutionally granted right can be practiced as safely as possible too. This is fun. What other constitutional rights do you want the government to pay for? Mark this day down. We are finally in agreement.

There is a constitutional right to vote, should there be FREE voter ID's? I am all for training of weapons, just as long as those who purchase weapons are law abiding citizens, not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot blacks in a poor church. Or a movie theater in Colorado. Or kids in an elementary school. If you are nuts, and the leftwing is nuts, ban them from learning how to shoot, don't give them a voter ID and send them all to Cuba. The US would be great again. Liberals are miserable wretches.

We have a Second Amendment. Better aqueducts, better roads, and more well regulated militia, is the answer to any State's security problems.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

I make a motion under the common law, to request the Judiciary "enroll" gun lovers who present themselves in any superior Court, with Only an inferior argument, to be enrolled in our State militia to become more well regulated.

Great idea. We should have an accurate database of all those patriotic gun owning militia members.

/---- Can we set up a database of women who abort their babies? That's a great idea too.

 

[Picaro]

This article brings up an interesting idea....since owning a gun is a Right, and any Poll Tax or Literacy Test on a Right is unConstitutional.....if those opposed to gun ownership are worried about guns....should the government offer free training programs for gun owners.....not as a mandate, but as a free courtesy to help those too poor to get the training on their own?

The laughable arguments against constitutional carry - Hot Air

We’re not talking about a privilege which is granted to you as some sort of gift by the government and can just as easily be taken away. It’s a fundamental right which was built into the Constitution and it can only be removed in extreme situations where you have proven that you are too dangerous and/or unstable to be trusted with the right.

--------

All the states should be making sure that education and training for gun safety are available to all their citizens for a reasonable price (if not for free).


But we should also remember that liberals continually try to treat firearms as if they are some mythical totem which is somehow different from every other potentially dangerous tool crafted by the hand of man.


Frankly, I don’t think you should be using a chainsaw in your back yard until you’ve had at least some level of training on how to employ one safely and effectively. But the responsibility for that falls on you. And if you wind up injuring yourself or others or causing property damage when you drop a tree on your neighbor’s house, you’re the one stuck paying the price.

/---- They taught gun saftey in High School up until 1963. The J FK assassination ended it over night.

That sounds about right. My father and uncles were all military so my brothers and I got very good training very young, and I don't recall any Jr. high or high school courses in it, outside of the ROTC classes.

 

[Divine Wind]

I agree completely. There is a constitutional right to own a gun if you so choose, so the government should pay so that constitutionally granted right can be enjoyed as safely as possible. Of course, that means that the right to an abortion, which is also a constitutional right if the woman so chooses, should also be paid for by the government so that constitutionally granted right can be practiced as safely as possible too. This is fun. What other constitutional rights do you want the government to pay for? Mark this day down. We are finally in agreement.

There is a constitutional right to vote, should there be FREE voter ID's? I am all for training of weapons, just as long as those who purchase weapons are law abiding citizens, not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot blacks in a poor church. Or a movie theater in Colorado. Or kids in an elementary school. If you are nuts, and the leftwing is nuts, ban them from learning how to shoot, don't give them a voter ID and send them all to Cuba. The US would be great again. Liberals are miserable wretches.

We have a Second Amendment. Better aqueducts, better roads, and more well regulated militia, is the answer to any State's security problems.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

I make a motion under the common law, to request the Judiciary "enroll" gun lovers who present themselves in any superior Court, with Only an inferior argument, to be enrolled in our State militia to become more well regulated.

Great idea. We should have an accurate database of all those patriotic gun owning militia members.

/---- Can we set up a database of women who abort their babies? That's a great idea too.

I doubt he'd go for that, but the idea is on par with registering all gun owners in a database and publishing it in a newspaper.

FWIW, many people here know I support a woman's right to choose up to the 24th week.

 

[Divine Wind]

This article brings up an interesting idea....since owning a gun is a Right, and any Poll Tax or Literacy Test on a Right is unConstitutional.....if those opposed to gun ownership are worried about guns....should the government offer free training programs for gun owners.....not as a mandate, but as a free courtesy to help those too poor to get the training on their own?

The laughable arguments against constitutional carry - Hot Air

We’re not talking about a privilege which is granted to you as some sort of gift by the government and can just as easily be taken away. It’s a fundamental right which was built into the Constitution and it can only be removed in extreme situations where you have proven that you are too dangerous and/or unstable to be trusted with the right.

--------

All the states should be making sure that education and training for gun safety are available to all their citizens for a reasonable price (if not for free).


But we should also remember that liberals continually try to treat firearms as if they are some mythical totem which is somehow different from every other potentially dangerous tool crafted by the hand of man.


Frankly, I don’t think you should be using a chainsaw in your back yard until you’ve had at least some level of training on how to employ one safely and effectively. But the responsibility for that falls on you. And if you wind up injuring yourself or others or causing property damage when you drop a tree on your neighbor’s house, you’re the one stuck paying the price.

/---- They taught gun saftey in High School up until 1963. The J FK assassination ended it over night.

That sounds about right. My father and uncles were all military so my brothers and I got very good training very young, and I don't recall any Jr. high or high school courses in it, outside of the ROTC classes.

I don't know about prior to JFK, but the Democrats did impose a lot of gun restrictions after the assassination. I was in JROTC in the early 1970s and competitively shot on the rifle team.

 

[jasonnfree]

Bullshit. Go to youtube and type in "Obama to take guns" there are literally hundreds of videos of RWNJs making that claim at least as far back as his first election. It's a gun nut staple.

....he did, he is doing it with judges......he appointed the lower court federal judges who are making guns illegal...the 4th Circuit court of appeals just declared that the 2nd Amendment doesn't protect military weapons......in direct contradiction of rulings from the Supreme Court...and it did this with obama appointed judges....

He knew that he needed democrats in congress to pass obamacare, and he didn't want to jeopordize losing votes over gun control votes....the way bill clinton did during his Presidency....so he took the back door route, and the harder one to fight....he packed the federal bench with anti gun judges....that is why you have so many anti gun rulings at the appeals court level, despite rulings from the Supreme Court that say they can't do what they are doing....Heller, Macdonald, Miller, Caetano.......and they still do it....because he didn't appoint judges, he appointed left wing activists......

How many of your guns did he take?

The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals, which just defied the U.S. Supreme Court by saying that military weapons are not protected by the 2nd Amendment.....which includes just about every gun owned by Americans.......of the 17 judges on the Circuit.....7 were put there by obama.....and 5 by clinton.....12 out of 17 anti gun judges......

Call me when you hear the knock at your door. Until then, it's just your fearful imagination.

Apparently, some still believe President Obama is coming for our guns.

Well, actually, it would only be their guns. Since I voted for him (twice), he'd let me keep mine AND let me buy affordable health insurance to boot.


Sent from my iPad using USMessageBoard.com

Oh, so you have a gun/guns, but want to deny others their 2nd Amendment rights. Got it.

 

[jasonnfree]

Funny, the very people who advocate for abortions - basically a violent act, want to deny certain others their rights to gun ownership based on the possibility that they might, just might, be violent with their guns.

 

[BULLDOG]

Again, you are going to have to show me the wording of the legislation to back that up. I know you have been repeatedly told that, but facts are required.

, we are basing our report on the individual's inability to manage his or her affairs

Federal Register :: Implementation of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007


notice the intentional lack of detail in the term "manage affairs"

Vague laws are too easy to abuse

Nothing vague about it. From your link,

a finding that the individual's mental impairment meets or medically equals the requirements of section 12.00 of the Listing of Impairments (Listings) and receipt of benefits through a representative payee.

12.00-Mental Disorders-Adult

Nothing in that allows denial of guns for a screwed up checkbook. I know you are just repeating what you have been told, but you have been told a lie...........AGAIN

they'll just call it a neurocognitive disorder

Like I said too much leeway for the government is a bad idea

but you're too naive to see that

You got nothing.Your claims have been shot down, but you're too dumb to admit it.

read the description of neurocognitive disorder in the link and tell me there is not a lot of room in that description

you are naive to the point of mental retardation

You're just getting silly now.

 

[danielpalos]

I agree completely. There is a constitutional right to own a gun if you so choose, so the government should pay so that constitutionally granted right can be enjoyed as safely as possible. Of course, that means that the right to an abortion, which is also a constitutional right if the woman so chooses, should also be paid for by the government so that constitutionally granted right can be practiced as safely as possible too. This is fun. What other constitutional rights do you want the government to pay for? Mark this day down. We are finally in agreement.

There is a constitutional right to vote, should there be FREE voter ID's? I am all for training of weapons, just as long as those who purchase weapons are law abiding citizens, not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot blacks in a poor church. Or a movie theater in Colorado. Or kids in an elementary school. If you are nuts, and the leftwing is nuts, ban them from learning how to shoot, don't give them a voter ID and send them all to Cuba. The US would be great again. Liberals are miserable wretches.

We have a Second Amendment. Better aqueducts, better roads, and more well regulated militia, is the answer to any State's security problems.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

I make a motion under the common law, to request the Judiciary "enroll" gun lovers who present themselves in any superior Court, with Only an inferior argument, to be enrolled in our State militia to become more well regulated.

Great idea. We should have an accurate database of all those patriotic gun owning militia members.

/---- Can we set up a database of women who abort their babies? That's a great idea too.

How about a database of rightwingers who oppose both, an ounce of prevention and a pound of cure, so they can moralize and whine about taxes.

 

[Divine Wind]

Funny, the very people who advocate for abortions - basically a violent act, want to deny certain others their rights to gun ownership based on the possibility that they might, just might, be violent with their guns.

When dealing with political partisans, one should wear hip waders to walk through the high level of hypocritical bullshit.

 

[Divine Wind]

I agree completely. There is a constitutional right to own a gun if you so choose, so the government should pay so that constitutionally granted right can be enjoyed as safely as possible. Of course, that means that the right to an abortion, which is also a constitutional right if the woman so chooses, should also be paid for by the government so that constitutionally granted right can be practiced as safely as possible too. This is fun. What other constitutional rights do you want the government to pay for? Mark this day down. We are finally in agreement.

There is a constitutional right to vote, should there be FREE voter ID's? I am all for training of weapons, just as long as those who purchase weapons are law abiding citizens, not some flaming liberal who wants to go shoot blacks in a poor church. Or a movie theater in Colorado. Or kids in an elementary school. If you are nuts, and the leftwing is nuts, ban them from learning how to shoot, don't give them a voter ID and send them all to Cuba. The US would be great again. Liberals are miserable wretches.

We have a Second Amendment. Better aqueducts, better roads, and more well regulated militia, is the answer to any State's security problems.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

I make a motion under the common law, to request the Judiciary "enroll" gun lovers who present themselves in any superior Court, with Only an inferior argument, to be enrolled in our State militia to become more well regulated.

Great idea. We should have an accurate database of all those patriotic gun owning militia members.

/---- Can we set up a database of women who abort their babies? That's a great idea too.

How about a database of rightwingers who oppose both, an ounce of prevention and a pound of cure, so they can moralize and whine about taxes.

We shouldn't allow the government to be formulating databases on honest, law abiding American citizens, especially for political reasons.

 

[Picaro]

Exactly. Nobody would have their ability to own guns removed over a balanced checkbook, and making that claim is a blatant lie. Like most right wing claims, that one is manufactured.

the wording of the legislation allowed just that which is why it needed to be rescinded you may trust the fucking government not to do what a vague law allows it to do but the rest of us aren't as naive

Again, you are going to have to show me the wording of the legislation to back that up. I know you have been repeatedly told that, but facts are required.

, we are basing our report on the individual's inability to manage his or her affairs

Federal Register :: Implementation of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007


notice the intentional lack of detail in the term "manage affairs"

Vague laws are too easy to abuse

Nothing vague about it. From your link,

a finding that the individual's mental impairment meets or medically equals the requirements of section 12.00 of the Listing of Impairments (Listings) and receipt of benefits through a representative payee.

12.00-Mental Disorders-Adult

Nothing in that allows denial of guns for a screwed up checkbook. I know you are just repeating what you have been told, but you have been told a lie...........AGAIN

they'll just call it a neurocognitive disorder

Like I said too much leeway for the government is a bad idea

but you're too naive to see that

the mental health 'professions' have less credibility than the MSM does, thanks to their weakness and pandering to political correctness and caving in to the mau-mauing for decades now, refusing to call mentally ill freaks mentally ill freaks just to avoid 'controversy', even though many of them know better.

 

[GreenHank17]

Funny, the very people who advocate for abortions - basically a violent act, want to deny certain others their rights to gun ownership based on the possibility that they might, just might, be violent with their guns.

Which "very people" are you referring to? I have not met those people yet. I have never met anyone that wants to deny someone the right to a gun "based on the possibility that they might, just might, be violent with their guns". Usually, people make some good points about criminal record or psychological issue history.

 

[Skull Pilot]

, we are basing our report on the individual's inability to manage his or her affairs

Federal Register :: Implementation of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007


notice the intentional lack of detail in the term "manage affairs"

Vague laws are too easy to abuse

Nothing vague about it. From your link,

a finding that the individual's mental impairment meets or medically equals the requirements of section 12.00 of the Listing of Impairments (Listings) and receipt of benefits through a representative payee.

12.00-Mental Disorders-Adult

Nothing in that allows denial of guns for a screwed up checkbook. I know you are just repeating what you have been told, but you have been told a lie...........AGAIN

they'll just call it a neurocognitive disorder

Like I said too much leeway for the government is a bad idea

but you're too naive to see that

You got nothing.Your claims have been shot down, but you're too dumb to admit it.

read the description of neurocognitive disorder in the link and tell me there is not a lot of room in that description

you are naive to the point of mental retardation

You're just getting silly now.

You're silly to trust the government