Should Churches be forced to accomodate for homosexual weddings?

[Gadawg73]

Well Gaydawg - you're finally right about something - Congratulations !

- Government forcing churches to marry gays is a myth - Now if you could kindly get your head out of your ass and face the music on the subject you ran away from with your tail betweenst your legs .

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/361541-gays-have-won-so-what-s-next-14.html#post9361289 <<< What are you Afraid of ?

I am a heterosexual flannel shirt wearing, former football playin, huntin, fishin, tobacco chewin, southern drawl talkin white male 59 almost 60 with 3 grown college educated kids and 2 grand kids.

I have never run away from anything at 6'5" and 280 lbs. Chasing QBs and cracking heads of fugitives was my hobby for 10 years. Got a full ride for 5 and paid big $$$ the other 5.

Am not scared of the gay boogeyman like milk weak sissies are.
Govern yourself accordingly.

Bullying people around might work on the football field, but it's not gonna work out so well in the courts I think.

Who said anything about bullying anyone?

 

[Gadawg73]

Well Gaydawg - you're finally right about something - Congratulations !

- Government forcing churches to marry gays is a myth - Now if you could kindly get your head out of your ass and face the music on the subject you ran away from with your tail betweenst your legs .

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/361541-gays-have-won-so-what-s-next-14.html#post9361289 <<< What are you Afraid of ?

I am a heterosexual flannel shirt wearing, former football playin, huntin, fishin, tobacco chewin, southern drawl talkin white male 59 almost 60 with 3 grown college educated kids and 2 grand kids.

I have never run away from anything at 6'5" and 280 lbs. Chasing QBs and cracking heads of fugitives was my hobby for 10 years. Got a full ride for 5 and paid big $$$ the other 5.

Am not scared of the gay boogeyman like milk weak sissies are.
Govern yourself accordingly.

So if people object to gay marriage they are "weak sissies"? Weird. You do sound desperate.

Sounds like you're scared actually of the 86% who voted here that they don't believe gay marriage should be forced upon people. Speaking of fear and sissies...

Not what I said.
How is gay marriage forced on you?
Who is forcing you to marry a gay person?
If you do not like it fine with me, not a problem.
Don't marry a gay person and it never affects you.
Gay marriage affects you IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER.
How does interracial marriage affect you?
How does 2 midgets marrying affect you?

 

[Gadawg73]

Well Gaydawg - you're finally right about something - Congratulations !

- Government forcing churches to marry gays is a myth - Now if you could kindly get your head out of your ass and face the music on the subject you ran away from with your tail betweenst your legs .

http://www.usmessageboard.com/current-events/361541-gays-have-won-so-what-s-next-14.html#post9361289 <<< What are you Afraid of ?

I am a heterosexual flannel shirt wearing, former football playin, huntin, fishin, tobacco chewin, southern drawl talkin white male 59 almost 60 with 3 grown college educated kids and 2 grand kids.

I have never run away from anything at 6'5" and 280 lbs. Chasing QBs and cracking heads of fugitives was my hobby for 10 years. Got a full ride for 5 and paid big $$$ the other 5.

Am not scared of the gay boogeyman like milk weak sissies are.
Govern yourself accordingly.

I know you're on our side, but....

I've known quite a few homos that fit that description, even with kids.

No offense to anyone but I am not gay as I was not born that way.

 

[RKMBrown]

I am a heterosexual flannel shirt wearing, former football playin, huntin, fishin, tobacco chewin, southern drawl talkin white male 59 almost 60 with 3 grown college educated kids and 2 grand kids.

I have never run away from anything at 6'5" and 280 lbs. Chasing QBs and cracking heads of fugitives was my hobby for 10 years. Got a full ride for 5 and paid big $$$ the other 5.

Am not scared of the gay boogeyman like milk weak sissies are.
Govern yourself accordingly.

Bullying people around might work on the football field, but it's not gonna work out so well in the courts I think.

Who said anything about bullying anyone?

What kind of football did you play? Flag?

Cracking heads of fugitives didn't involve bullying the fugitives?

 

[Gadawg73]

I am a heterosexual flannel shirt wearing, former football playin, huntin, fishin, tobacco chewin, southern drawl talkin white male 59 almost 60 with 3 grown college educated kids and 2 grand kids.

I have never run away from anything at 6'5" and 280 lbs. Chasing QBs and cracking heads of fugitives was my hobby for 10 years. Got a full ride for 5 and paid big $$$ the other 5.

Am not scared of the gay boogeyman like milk weak sissies are.
Govern yourself accordingly.

Bullying people around might work on the football field, but it's not gonna work out so well in the courts I think.

True, the courts are the bullies

How has any court specifically bullied you on the gay marriage issue?

This ought to be rich.

 

[Gadawg73]

Bullying people around might work on the football field, but it's not gonna work out so well in the courts I think.

Who said anything about bullying anyone?

What kind of football did you play? Flag?

Cracking heads of fugitives didn't involve bullying the fugitives?

Sure, right, a full ride for flag football, that is the ticket.

"bullying fugitives" what is that?

 

[hazlnut]

The First Amendment forbids public law from forcing anything on religious institutions, just as it forbids religious institutions from imposing their will on the public.

So churches should have the right to discriminate against homosexuals?

How about against racial minorities as well?

Have the right?


Do you understand how our "rights" work? They protect the individual citizen from the Government.


Churches are not public accommodations that engage in interstate commerce -- thus not prohibited from excluding races.


I'm sure there are quite a few churches in the Red little shitholes that slam the door on minorities.

 

[RKMBrown]

Who said anything about bullying anyone?

What kind of football did you play? Flag?

Cracking heads of fugitives didn't involve bullying the fugitives?

Sure, right, a full ride for flag football, that is the ticket.

"bullying fugitives" what is that?

bul·lied bul·ly·ing
transitive verb
1: to treat abusively
2: to affect by means of force or coercion

Websters.


Tell me you did not get your way on the football field and/or "crack heads of fugitives" by asking your opponents to please do as you please. Tell me you did not use force or coercion.

 

[RKMBrown]

Bullying people around might work on the football field, but it's not gonna work out so well in the courts I think.

True, the courts are the bullies

How has any court specifically bullied you on the gay marriage issue?

This ought to be rich.

Never heard the phrase bully pulpit? The courts, like it or not, hold great sway over how our liberties are regulated.

I'm gonna guess you're leaning on the libtard definition of bullying that relates to beating up kids in school for their lunch money, or just because the kids are strange. That's just one use of the term. If you use words in context, you don't have to assume someone is using the words out of context.

 

[kaz]

Bullying people around might work on the football field, but it's not gonna work out so well in the courts I think.

True, the courts are the bullies

How has any court specifically bullied you on the gay marriage issue?

This ought to be rich.

Any violation of the Constitution harms all citizens, that particular judicial legislation directly harms me is irrelevant, it harms be because it further establishes that the courts can decree anything they want based on nothing but their own politics. Yeah, that harms me, you and everyone else, including the people it directly "helps." Their next fiat could be anything.

 

[emilynghiem]

Still don't care. You don't get it do you? I don't care what you think the law of the land is. I don't care what the constitution says, if it violates the Bible.

I'm a Christian. As a Christian, the Bible is the highest authority in my life. Higher than you... higher than the law.... higher than the Constitution, the President, or the Supreme Court.

Now as long as all those things do not contradict the Bible.... we're good.

But the moment they contradict the Bible... you lose. I'm going with the Bible. And that sir, is all there is to it.

Now this is the problem I have with Christians. When they claim their bigotry and homophobic beliefs on the bible. I'm sorry but not one christian follows the bible as a moral guide on any kind of authority. Yes, they pick and choose certain snippets to hide their racist or bigoted or homophobic issues and claim the bible for their moral compass. Yet they chose to ignore other parts of the bible such as slavery and killing someone who works on the sabbath to name a few. You're all cowards to take refuge in certain passages in the bible while completely ignoring and dismissing others. At least stand up to your own decisions and quit hiding under the skirt of the bible.

Also the bible contradicts itself many times over so you better start over or bow out and admit that you're homophobic. What else scares you?

[MENTION=16831]Tuatara[/MENTION]
1. Since Christianity and the Bible call followers to forgive, all the conflicts can be avoided by forgiving which is consistent with the teachings.
I agree the #1 problem with Christianity is when Christians cannot forgive, which contradicts the whole message and process of salvation.
However, this cannot be fixed by not forgiving them, which adds to the unforgiveness; the only way to break that cycle is by forgiveness or it goes in a loop.
So yes it is a mess, but that mess can be fixed. By choosing to forgive and trusting the only sure way to teach forgiveness is by offering it.
2. I have more trouble with political leaders not following the Constitution.
If you are going to throw out the Bible because it cannot be followed consistently,
are you going to throw out the Constitution also?
3. Note: throwing out both and starting over, still leaves all the people behind causing our own problems in the first place.
If we don't forgive conflicts, we project them onto each other and repeat the same cycles.
Regardless if we use religion or politics to do it.

All people are equally to blame, not just Christians not following the Bible
or politicians not following the Constitution. We are all responsible for correcting problems, using whatever laws or languages help us with that democratic process of conflict resolution. Thank you.

 

[emilynghiem]

Bullying people around might work on the football field, but it's not gonna work out so well in the courts I think.

True, the courts are the bullies

How has any court specifically bullied you on the gay marriage issue?

This ought to be rich.

I agree with KAZ that courts harm the public and integrity of the Constitution/govt
with rulings that are flawed.

In particular I find the ruling on ACA as a tax to be flawed,
as the ACA imposes the right to health care through govt as a nationalized belief
that excludes and discriminates by creed against those who believe in free market health care as a natural right, and requires a Constitutional Amendment to authorize govt.

I believe courts are not authorized to takes sides on marriage laws that involve religious or political beliefs, such as "the right to marriage" or "marriage as between one man and one woman only".

If marriage laws being contested are not equally protecting beliefs, or the ACA is written to force regulations mandates and fines instead of reserving free choice for people of all beliefs, those laws should be revised and not pushed to the courts to rule yes or no.

If I were a judge in court and two parties came to me with this kind of religiously based conflict, I would order them to mediate and rewrite the contracts where they can both sign their names to it. Not fight over two different versions of the contract, and then expect me to order one party or the other to sign their names to the version they disagree with.

Sorry, to me that is violating consent, the spirit of the laws, and the Constitution.
I believe in equal protection of the laws, and supporting unobstructed justice and due process to establish agreement on laws that all parties respect and consent to.

otherwise we have a zoo of politics making decisions based on who paid the bigger bully to lobby, legislate or lawyer for them. that isn't equal for all people, so that's why we don't have Equal Justice under Law as inscribed on the Supreme Court.

Equal consent to the laws makes all parties equal regardless of belief, party, standing or status. if you buy and sell people's interest and consent, you have lawlessness and people making money off the process to make it even more biased and unfair. NO THANKS!

 

[emilynghiem]

How do you keep marriage "out of government altogether" when there are children, divorces, tax law, child support, division of property, on and on and on?
Marriage was arranged for centuries, youth were told who to marry and that was the norm.

Works a lot better if we allow folks to marry who they fall in love with as long as it is 2 consenting adults.

You stick to "civil contracts and custody/estate agreements" with the parties involved.
There is no need to make any big deal about gender of the parents in a church marriage.

Frankly I would love to be able to have a ceremonial marriage
SEPARATE
and not be automatically rooked into or imposed upon
assuming business and ownership agreements with property etc.

People write out prenuptial and partnership contracts all the time.
Marriage ceremonies and sacraments in churches can remain private.
I think that would solve the problem.

 

[emilynghiem]

Get government out of the business of "Marriage".

It's too late for that not, way too late.

[MENTION=47594]PaintMyHouse[/MENTION]
if lobbyists can push to change the age old definition of marriage
where it isn't between one man and one woman
YES why not change the whole system and take it completely out of govt

If it's not too late to change the definition of marriage
it's not too late to change the tradition of marriage through govt either.

It would be more consistent with "separating church and state"
if you are going to argue that traditional marriage violates religious beliefs
so does imposing gay marriage, so keep all that private
and rewrite laws to be "neutral contracts" so religious issues are bypassed altogether.

 

[emilynghiem]

[MENTION=29100]bripat9643[/MENTION] [MENTION=14617]Cecilie1200[/MENTION] [MENTION=39447]Jarlaxle[/MENTION]

I do not hate Christians...but like Jesus, I hate hypocrisy!

Oh, spare me. You're such a kneejerk anti-religious bigot, they'd use you on recruiting posters, if they had any. You're a walking cliche.

It's impossible to be a liberal if you truly hate hypocrisy.

But to forgive hypocrisy on all sides in all forms,
takes full inclusion of diversity, which liberals are supposed to aspire to.

Liberals who practice political discrimination and exclusion
are just as difficult to deal with as
Christians who can't forgive or
Constitutionalist who don't respect the consent or dissent of others with equal protection

It is impossible to be a perfect human being, no matter what system we commit to.
The most we can do is help point out each other's flaws for the purpose of correction, and try to support each other in succeeding, instead of competing to make each other wrong or fail. We can either all fail, or all succeed. What is going to help us more?

 

[emilynghiem]

Not what I said.
How is gay marriage forced on you?
Who is forcing you to marry a gay person?
If you do not like it fine with me, not a problem.
Don't marry a gay person and it never affects you.
Gay marriage affects you IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER.
How does interracial marriage affect you?
How does 2 midgets marrying affect you?

1. That's fine if it's done privately through whatever church/group or community someone belongs to

2. but if people do not believe in state/govt laws endorsing "gay marriage" or 'same sex' marriage, or if people DO believe in marriage equality/right to marriage
Those are religious or political beliefs and cannot be imposed on people of conflicting beliefs without violating constitutional equal protections against discrimination by creed.

3. these beliefs are so deeply engrained people do not even BELIEVE these are beliefs.
They believe they are just true. That's how deeply people BELIEVE in this rights/laws.

[MENTION=18558]Gadawg73[/MENTION]
it doesn't even matter the content or subject of the beliefs/laws if you look at the construct:
if people have conflicting beliefs
they have the right to consent to how laws are written and enforced through the state,
or else agree to separate these from the state and keep them in private so there is no conflict

but the minute you go through the state and it involves the public, then all other beliefs must be accommodated for equally. so if you can't all agree, it cannot be made public law

if you agree to compromise, that's fine, too, but I don't see either side letting up.
that's because there are inherent religiously held beliefs that cannot change.
a sure sign that this issue belongs to the people to decide and out of state hands.
the state can endorse an agreed contract between people, but cannot impose on beliefs.

 

[GISMYS]

God must not and will not be mocked!...Heed his judgments with fear(respect), and to remember God said in Gen.6:5-God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. God destroy the first world time period, and because man cannot naturally see God with his eyes, he has no fear, and believes he is his own self god, yet one day to every man all things will be made clear by God. His judgment will open all eyes to know that he is God and a true God of his word! Also some people are deceived by Satan to look at nature as a lawful guide for homosexuality. Just because same sex acts are done by animals(mammals) of different kinds is no rightful reason ,that mankind should behave and do as animals do. Animals don't go to "Hell and Fire",after they die, but perverted mankind does according to the judgement of God's word. God didn't speak his word against the animals,God spoke unto mankind, and that they must not commit the acts of homosexuality. Animals aren't made in the "image of God", but man is. Therefore, man is required to give account of the things he has done. Eccl.12:13-Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.14. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

 

[emilynghiem]

[MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION] it is still unconstitutional to uphold any law that violates other laws.
People voted on Affirmative Action, but it was later overturned as unconstitutional.
Laws on slaves as property were later changed.

GISMYS when laws are passed by majority rule that you don't agree with, if they violate your religious beliefs, you have the right to defend your beliefs by the First and Fourteenth Amendments. Normally you go through court and sue to strike down the contested law as unconstitutional on religious grounds.

here, to save time money and public resources on lawsuits,
why not acknowledge IN ADVANCE BEFORE passing laws that religious beliefs are involved?

why write a biased law, force it through by majority rule, and then fight it in court? if we can agree there is religious conflict to begin with, why not rewrite the law before passing it. why not resolve the conflicts up front, instead of wasting taxpayer money fighting?

See CODE OF ETHICS FOR GOVT SERVICE
about seeking to employ the most economic means of accomplishing tasks:

"Any person in government service should...
IV. Seek to find and employ more efficient and economical ways of getting tasks accomplished." Public Law 96-303, 1980 -- ethics-commission.net

But all it takes is one Atheist to sue in court, and a Cross has to come down.

That's usually because it's in a place where it doesn't belong. I have no problem with all faiths sharing the public square, as long as all of them can, not just the majority faith as in the past.

" majority " RULES IN THE USA =ITS CALLED VOTING!!!

[MENTION=47594]PaintMyHouse[/MENTION] My point was many Atheists will NOT sue even if it IS in a place it doesn't belong and they could win because it is a violation. Many Atheists whose beliefs could be argued as violated, same as the ones who go to court and win, COULD win but do not pursue it.

My point is you CAN choose to forgive violations of religious freedom, but cannot be forced to forgive by govt.

So here, even if the solution is for those who don't believe in gay marriage to FORGIVE the fact it contradicts their beliefs, this CANNOT be forced by govt. You cannot impose some law that requires someone to forgive impositions on their faith.

 

[GISMYS]

When Jesus was crusified, His death paid the price for all the sins of the world, and His Resurection is what makes Christianity the ONLY True religion in the WORLD!!!
Mohammad, or allah, or budah, or any other religous "guru"
could not even save themselves, let alone the rest of the world!
They are ALL still dead and buried....Jesus is the ONLY way we can get to Heaven (Acts 4: 12)
And for those of you that think homosexuals are "born" that way, that is a lie straight from the pit of hell! Anyone that spreads lies like that is Truly the Hateful one, and NOT a friend ...And I do not hate you or anyone else, so don't call me a homophobe!!! I love you enough to tell you the TRUTH !!!, NOT all the LIES that everyone rlse is spewing about homosexuality.......You were NOT born "gay" and it is NOT an "alternative lifestyle" to be a homosexual.....It is a perversion...That is why the Homosexual Lobby is pushing so hard, they are trying to make the rest of society think their "lifestyle" is on equal footing as normal Heterosexuality..

 

[emilynghiem]

[MENTION=42952]GISMYS[/MENTION] I found some good points here Thanks:

God must not and will not be mocked!...Heed his judgments with fear(respect), and to remember God said in Gen.6:5-God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. God destroy the first world time period, and because man cannot naturally see God with his eyes, he has no fear, and believes he is his own self god, yet one day to every man all things will be made clear by God. His judgment will open all eyes to know that he is God and a true God of his word! Also some people are deceived by Satan to look at nature as a lawful guide for homosexuality. Just because same sex acts are done by animals(mammals) of different kinds is no rightful reason ,that mankind should behave and do as animals do. Animals don't go to "Hell and Fire",after they die, but perverted mankind does according to the judgement of God's word. God didn't speak his word against the animals,God spoke unto mankind, and that they must not commit the acts of homosexuality. Animals aren't made in the "image of God", but man is. Therefore, man is required to give account of the things he has done. Eccl.12:13-Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.14. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

In general, animals fight for seniority and territory in the pecking order.
But man is supposed to rise above our animal "pack mentality,"
and only call God as our Father and receive each other as equal children of the one God, not have tribal warfare over who's earthly father or leader makes them better than another group's.

We are supposed to be made equal, perfect and whole in Christ Jesus,
submitting one to another as equal children of God,
forgiving and correcting one another as equals. All tribes are to be joined as one in harmony
with God's truth through Christ Jesus, not divided as Jew from Gentile, or churched from secular.
Christ Jesus as lord or authority of all laws fulfills both the church laws as Salvation through Grace
and the state laws as Justice and Peace.

Christ Jesus fulfills the secular laws as Restorative Justice to
establish "equal justice under law" or "equal protections of the law"

We must seek this together, in unity and agreement, and
not fight for control of the process like animals in a pack.
thank you GISMYS please pray that this wisdom is received by all who benefit.