Shoshana Johnson v Jessica Lynch

[lilcountriegal]

I actually am just hearing a story that I havent heard before.

Both Shoshana Johnson and Jessica Lynch were held captive in Iraq. Shoshana is now complaining that the (possible) reason she is not getting the same attention as Jessica Lynch is due to race.

(I posted this in General USA versus Iraq section because this is probably more of a race thing... move it if I guessed wrong Jim)

I thought it would be kind of interesting to see some of the different views on this.

(P.S... anyone interested, apparently tonight at 10 pm on MSNBC during Scarborough Country they'll be addressing this)

 

[jimnyc]

Undoubtedly the race card is being thrown into the mix. I can't say it's true or not at this point, but obviously a little proof would be nice. She would need to show that she received less benefits specifically because of her race.

Personally, I believe if her accusations are found to be baseless, she should lose her entire benefits for trying to smear the military.

I'm all for her fighting for benefits (if she deserves more, I'm not qualified to decide that), but bringing in the race card is wrong, not to mention a bit premature as I'm yet to see any kind of proof on this.

 

[janeeng]

Unfortanately, you know it's going to be about race - it always wind up that way. If you remember, other than Jessica's benefits, she had a whole new addition put on house, all the works. What did Shoshana get? she will claim that her ankle was shot and has a hard time getting around, etc. but Jessica's bones were shattered. I also beleive it was the town that did all this for her at their expense and donations.

Your right Jim, if she does deserve more, that's one thing, and should get it, but if about race, just kills me. Maybe Al Sharpton gave her a call!!! Sharpton to the rescue, always having to start some sort of trouble. It's just too bad that race continues to be a problem and that people just can't get a long and see what' right and what's wrong!! never going to happen though.

 

[Joan]

I don't see this the way you guys do this time. Personally, I think Jessica is playing this for all she can get. The people are actually making her out to be some kind of hero. The only true hero in this case was the muslim man who helped the military find her. Now she is raking in all kinds of money with a movie, a book, tv interviews etc. She is no more deserving of any military medal than the purple heart, which all of the wounded should receive. Yet when her true "hero" (the man who help troops rescue her) came to her hometown - she was too "busy" doing promotions for her book to even meet with him. She should have been there to kiss his feet in my opinion.

If you recall, there were 4 others (at least I think it was four) injured at the same time (Soshanna among them). Granted, they didn't have some kind of heroic rescue, but they all deserve to be treated equally. We haven't heard much about any of the others since the day they were rescued.

 

[jimnyc]

Joanie, I agree that the circumstances surrounding Jessica Lynch's adventure is skeptical.

But, I was commenting about Shoshana Johnson playing the race card. Let's assume for a minute that Lynch's entire story has been fabricated, how does that make this racial bias?

If anything, it's mistreatment of benefits, not a difference based on race. IF the truth has been stretched in Lynch's case, the extra benefits can be added incentive to keep her memory loss!

That extra incentive was not based on race, neither was the intitial decision to give Johnson a lower rate.

 

[Joan]

I don't think it's about not getting the same benefits, but about the monetary offers and publicity compared to what the others got (a free ride home period). I think I would probably feel the same way as her - and I'm not black, so how can that be playing the race card. I also feel perhaps the American public is guilty of giving the pretty little white girl more attention. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it's just how I feel. Not sure if it ever happened, but I remember back when Jessica was first rescued there was talk about awarding her a medal of honor - that I think would be one of them dumbest things to do! As I stated, all she did was have the misfortune to be captured by the enemy - no heroics involved!

 

[jimnyc]

But is she getting a raw deal BECAUSE she is black? I agree that on the face it appears she is getting less treatment than Lynch, but I highly doubt it's because she is black.

 

[janeeng]

How come the others, that are WHITE, that were rescued aren't crying??? like you said, they haven't been mentioned since their rescue, so how come they aren't standing beside Shoshana claiming the same thing????

 

[Joan]

Nope, I don't agree that it is because she is black - guess I just said what I had to regarding Jessica the money maker.

 

[janeeng]

She is the money maker, and that's wrong, but like I said, how come the other POW's are standing in line???? you haven't heard a thing from them, AT ALL!!!!

 

[Bry]

Without wanting to open a larger debate about race, I would like to suggest that IF Jessica were black, we probably wouldn't be talking about her right now. As for whether or not Shoshana has a valid LEGAL complaint, I tend to agree with the rest of you: no. Jessica seems to have been singled out largely for aesthetic reasons, and part of the aesthetic question is the color of her skin, though I can't help but note that they also chose a woman, and not a man, and that the woman that was chosen was a relatively attractive blond (by army standards, jejeje). Should Shoshana have spoken out about race? Probably not.

Honestly, when someone dreamed up this publicity stunt of Jessica's "rescue" I don't have enough information to evaluate to what extent aesthetics was taken into consideration, but the sequence of events as a whole has been pretty disgusting regardless of the race question. Someone was singled out for exceptional treatment, it is inevitable that we ask what factors contributed to that selection. It seems to me perfectly reasonable to think race may have played apart, though far from being conclusive.

 

[janeeng]

Agree with you there Bry!!!!!!!

 

[5stringJeff]

Well, I'm not really up on what happened to Shoshana Johnson. But I do know that the Army has a system for determining disability upon separation from active duty. Shoshana will get the disability compensation she deserves, as will Jessica.

As far as Jessica, though... her book is out, and it turns out she was raped. Are we surprised? I mean, rape is a horrible thing, but does anyone really expect that a female POW is not going to be raped? And as far as Jessica being a hero, I don't think that's very accurate. One of the LTs or sergeants took a wrong turn, and she paid the consequences. She went through some incredible hardships, to be sure, but I would not use the term "hero" to describe her.

 

[janeeng]

Thank you very much Jeff!!!!!! If she is what you call a HERO, then why weren't the rest of the POW's considered Hero's???? I just don't see how one singled out can get the title of a Hero and none of the rest. I happen to think all that have served are Hero's in my eyes, but this has just gone a little too far with her.

 

[Joan]

And today I'm hearing the Jessica is getting 80% disability, and Shoshanna is getting 30% - think I'd squawk a little too!

 

[lilcountriegal]

Without wanting to open a larger debate about race, I would like to suggest that IF Jessica were black, we probably wouldn't be talking about her right now.

I agree with most of Bry's post, however, I'd have to respectfully disagree (IMO) with that statement. I really dont see the race card in this, I think this is more a "media" thing. Picture if Lynch were black... the cameras happened to be ready and available to film this "daring rescue" which won America's heart. The story that came out shortly after saying that she continued to shoot even after being shot trying to "ward off the enemy" gives her the heroic symbol. Jessica has since admitted that she shot not one single bullet. The entire scenario just screams "americas heroic sweetheart" and that, I believe, is what all the hoopla is about. Jessicas "daring rescue" was filmed on tape.. Shoshawnas bunch (if memory serves me correctly) were simply "let go" and wandered back into America's hands by way of a dirt road.

Ive heard the 80% to 30% figures that Joan posted on. I'm not up to date on the factors which deemed Shoshawna only eligible for 30% so I cant comment on if she is getting the shit end of the stick or not. I believe to immediately imply racial reasons as the means for the difference in pay isnt going to win her any hearts. And personally, it makes me sick.

As far as Jessica being raped, I'm not sure what I think on that. I agree with Jeff that a female prisoner of war (and an attractive one) would most likely be raped by those holding her captive. I find it rather amusing that she didnt remember being raped until close to the time her book came out. Again, I havent read any stories on this in a few days, but the last I read said she didnt remember anything at all from being captive. I'm torn on the rape issue.

For those interested, on one of the regular channels (ABC maybe) tonight at 9 or 9:30, Diane Sawyer will be interviewing Jessica for the first time. I cant watch it because it's on opposite 24.

 

[Bry]

Thanks for the reply, lil. i guess my take is that none of the hype appears to have been coincidental. I don't think "the cameras happened to be ready and available to film this "daring rescue" which won America's heart," I think they were told to be ready because the administration wanted it filmed. The whole thing reeks of propaganda, and I'm not convinced that in choosing the subject for their propaganda coup, the administration didn't take into consideration the skin color.

As I said, I don't think Shoshana should have brought up race in this case, though like you, I don't really know what the 30% vs. 80% disability means. If it turns out that their injuries or whatever factor should be taken into consideration to determine benefits, are more or less equal, then Shoshana should feel perfectly free to bring up the issue of race. ( If not, then she should keep her trap shut and move on.) You will notice that she didn't "immediately imply racial reasons", but waited months after the events to say anything. And as poorly informed as you and I both seem to be, it is difficult if not impossible for either of us to evaluate the validity of Shoshana's claims.

As for the "rape" of Jessica, which was BTW termed a "sodomizing rape" (a suitably vague categorization which leaves lots of room for imagination...) Jessica has never to my knowledge said that she remembered any of it, and the book states that the rape was demonstrated by medical examination.

 

[lilcountriegal]

I don't think "the cameras happened to be ready and available to film this "daring rescue" which won America's heart," I think they were told to be ready because the administration wanted it filmed. The whole thing reeks of propaganda, and I'm not convinced that in choosing the subject for their propaganda coup, the administration didn't take into consideration the skin color.

I highly doubt it was coincidental the cameras were waiting and ready to film the "daring rescue" either. It 'does' reek of propaganda... I caught the end of the ABC interview last night and I believe someone even admitted that they needed to get a "good news story" out there. I dont necessarily find fault with that. From the day we gave Saddam the time limit to step down, my television channel stayed on MSNBC, CNN, and Fox 24/7. Stories of ambushes, Iraqi militants dressing up as civilians and opening fire, them strapping bombs to pregnant women, children and blowing them up, it was nice to hear a good story. I think they probably caught wind there was an American 'captive' somewhere close and, as they rallied the troops for the rescue, most likely rallied the cameras as well. I still dont see race... I see convenience. (in all honestly, I think they would have much RATHER filmed Shoshawna's groups being rescued as while they were being held captive, the Iraqis released video of the prisoners ~ Iraqis smiling over the other dead soldiers with gunshot wounds, etc. America was following the story of Shoshawnas group's capture much more closely because they actually had video feed as compared to Jessica Lynch being just another "name on a list" of American missing.)

By no means do I think Shoshawna deserves less benefits due to her skin color. I am not seeing black or white in this issue, I am seeing "American soldier" with both women. What irritates me most about this situation is the race card even being pulled.

As for the "rape" of Jessica, which was BTW termed a "sodomizing rape"

You wont see me posting in the Islam/Muslim section of this site because I admittedly know little about the faith. However, I do believe this is against their religion, correct? **When I say "this", I am referring to anal sex, not rape** (Just a question for my own benefit).

As far as the rape is concerned, after watching the story, I believe it probably did happen. I was mistaken in my earlier post where I stated it amusing that she didnt remember the rape until right before her book came out... apparently she still does not remember this incident at all (doctors confirmed it). I saw last night she had perianal trauma (could have been caused from the ambush and the accident?). I do believe she was raped; I think there is little chance that she was NOT raped (and if she was, I thank God she cant remember). This whole story just reeks of.... well, this whole story just reeks.

 

[Steelfoot]

Well Shit Fire! Listen up! Here's the bottom line.

Everybody knows the coloreds are always victims -- of oppression, marginalization, dehumanization, microaggression, macroaggression and dog-whistle RAAAAAAAY-SIZZUM.

How would you like spending your whole squalid existence as The Other, huh? HUH?

Know what we mean?

 

[Godboy]

Heres the difference...

One is a blonde hottie and the other looks like Forest Whitaker in lipstick.