shooting pollution particles into the upper atmosphere .....

[Coloradomtnman]

...shooting pollution particles into the upper atmosphere...

Why are you right-wingers so up in arms about this? Its not that dangerous! I do it all the time, right after I eat Mexican food, or Indian food, or chili, or spicy foods, or a lot of cheese...and I don't think anyone's ever died. They've come close or wanted to, but they didn't. Funny, though, it always seems to heat up the atmosphere, not cool it...

 

[KittenKoder]

Here's a fact that is routinely ignored, yes I intend to draw attention to it:

Not one of the environmental protection ideas enacted in the last 20 years has done a damned thing and the fact that there is no change in this trend is proof of it.

There ... deny that.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Here's a fact that is routinely ignored, yes I intend to draw attention to it:

Not one of the environmental protection ideas enacted in the last 20 years has done a damned thing and the fact that there is no change in this trend is proof of it.

There ... deny that.

Okay, I won't. And you know the reason why they haven't worked? Because they aren't enforced effectively, the amount of pollutants and the number of polluters is constantly growing, and because the biggest polluters have lined the pockets of politicians and scooted around regulations just as they have for the last 150 years. So you're right.

If you're wrong about accelerated global warming (man-made or not), then in 50 years when your grandchildren and their children grow up in a wasteland, having never seen a cheetah or condor or tiger or gorilla or elephant except in books or on tv, and they can only go camping before the annual quota fills, and can only hunt once a decade, and pay $20 for a gallon of water, and have never seen snow, you can feel really good about how little you did to stop or slow global warming. And then they're children won't even have those luxuries and comforts, and will fantasize about the past while eating manufactured food. Not to mention the strife caused by increased wars and conflicts over resources. But if I'm wrong, at least we would've reduced pollution and lived on a greener world...

Which gamble would you like to take?

 

[sealybobo]

Here's a fact that is routinely ignored, yes I intend to draw attention to it:

Not one of the environmental protection ideas enacted in the last 20 years has done a damned thing and the fact that there is no change in this trend is proof of it.

There ... deny that.

The EPA banned a poisonist chemical Tom Delay was using back when he worked for Redwood Chemical.

This work was the source for his nickname "the Exterminator".

The United States Environmental Protection Agency's ban on a certain pesticide that was used in extermination work led DeLay to oppose government regulation of businesses, a belief that he has carried with him throughout his political career.[3]

 

[KittenKoder]

Here's a fact that is routinely ignored, yes I intend to draw attention to it:

Not one of the environmental protection ideas enacted in the last 20 years has done a damned thing and the fact that there is no change in this trend is proof of it.

There ... deny that.

Okay, I won't. And you know the reason why they haven't worked? Because they aren't enforced effectively, the amount of pollutants and the number of polluters is constantly growing, and because the biggest polluters have lined the pockets of politicians and scooted around regulations just as they have for the last 150 years. So you're right.

If you're wrong about accelerated global warming (man-made or not), then in 50 years when your grandchildren and their children grow up in a wasteland, having never seen a cheetah or condor or tiger or gorilla or elephant except in books or on tv, and they can only go camping before the annual quota fills, and can only hunt once a decade, and pay $20 for a gallon of water, and have never seen snow, you can feel really good about how little you did to stop or slow global warming. And then they're children won't even have those luxuries and comforts, and will fantasize about the past while eating manufactured food. Not to mention the strife caused by increased wars and conflicts over resources. But if I'm wrong, at least we would've reduced pollution and lived on a greener world...

Which gamble would you like to take?

Really? That isn't really proof of anything, many cities have had these laws in place for some time, Seattle for at least 10 years of forced "conformity" in many areas (recycling being the biggest). While there are some that are good just because they protect human lives directly, most are just based on this junk science used. Recycling has not only done nothing to help but has actually made our environment here worse in some respects. Other cities that have had similar laws have had the same results. A great example is the smog in California ... not a dent, it's actually worse now than before they started restrictions. If these worked then there should be some dent in the local areas they are enforced. Yes, they are enforced, here in Seattle they can fine you up to $500 if they find recyclables (which change every couple of months) in the trash.

 

[Skull Pilot]

hey lets just break a bunch of mirrors and send the pieces into orbit

Too late. They already thought of it.

I also heard another solution. They get these huge tubes and put them on the ocean floor. The gas down that deep has what we need. I don't remember if its carbon monoxide or what, but the tubes allow the gas to make it to the surface. Once it reaches the surface, it has a greenhouse effect and it cleans up smog.

Who knows Skull? All we know is if we leave it up to you right wingers, nothing will ever get done.

I'm not a right winger asshole. I am a pragmatist not a pie in the sky moron. Sure let's just fill the atmosphere with particulate matter that will reflect sunlight and scatter radio and TV signals and interfere with our satellite network. yeah fucking brilliant.

 

[neurosport]

there is a better solution but unfortunately not politically feasible

we could simply send Al Gore into outer space ...

 

[KittenKoder]

there is a better solution but unfortunately not politically feasible

we could simply send Al Gore into outer space ...

I am all for it, would even sacrifice part of my paycheck to fund it ... any other takers?

 

[k2skier]

We displace the carbon molecule at an alarming rate then try to play mother nature by some turkey shoot idea? We are not thinking clearly.

I don't think you understand how much we in the USA pollute. We make up somewhere near 25% of the pollution, yet we are not 25% of the world's population.

So imagine when China & India and Mexico and Africa start pollutiong as much as we do.

We are fucked!

Global Warming deniers are a joke at this point. But I hope they continue to be so stupid, because here they are again arguing with scientists. Not gonna win elections being this radical.

The debate has moved way past your assumptions. Talking to you is like arguing with someone that the world isn't round.

Uuummm, I'm one of the biggest supporters of humans (yes, mainly wasteful Americans)fucking up the planet, and yes humans are making climate forcings real (IE global warming). I just don't think we should be playing mother nature by messing with more phony ideas, just plant more tree's and help make the oceans healthier.

I think you seriously misunderstood me, or your being sarcastic. tTe planet IS warming, and humans do have a part in it, how much is the only debate IMO.

 

[k2skier]

KK, Why do you hate nature and the environment so much?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Really? That isn't really proof of anything, many cities have had these laws in place for some time, Seattle for at least 10 years of forced "conformity" in many areas (recycling being the biggest). While there are some that are good just because they protect human lives directly, most are just based on this junk science used. Recycling has not only done nothing to help but has actually made our environment here worse in some respects. Other cities that have had similar laws have had the same results. A great example is the smog in California ... not a dent, it's actually worse now than before they started restrictions. If these worked then there should be some dent in the local areas they are enforced. Yes, they are enforced, here in Seattle they can fine you up to $500 if they find recyclables (which change every couple of months) in the trash.

Sure, I didn't provide proof that many polluters scoot around regulations (though the Climax mine outside of Leadville, Colorado has maintained a skeleton crew to stay open despite mining operations being dicontinued in the late '80s because maintaining a skeleton crew is cheaper than the clean up required by regulations set by the EPA - which just is a political tool more than an effective organization anyway), but you can't deny the logic of my statement about potentialities of not acting to stop or slow global warming.

Either way, you and I are no experts in the fields of climatology, glaciology, biology, or probably any other -ology. I'd rather, in this matter with so very much at stake, play it safe and live on a cleaner planet, then live as though climate change isn't happening and then decades from now find out that I was wrong. What kind of legacy would that leave about us for our descendents? What kind of world would we be leaving them?

And just ask yourself: what possible motives do scientists have to claim that global warming is happening? Wealth? Fame? Really, because most of them are professors or research scientists, and even when they write a book about their research they don't make much money nor do they become very famous. Can you name a scientist that would fit that example, cause I can name thousands that don't.

And what possible motives do oil companies, Saudi and other Arab businessmen, Republican and corrupt politicians, among many others whose livelihoods and wealth are connected with the fossil fuel industry have to deny it? Stay wealthy. Stay in business. From my perspective their interests are enough to rationalize the possible permanent harm they are doing to our planet and each of us and our descendents. It wouldn't be the first time that an industry has denied any part or responsibility in the harm its caused just so it can continue to generate wealth.

 

[Old Rocks]

Here's a fact that is routinely ignored, yes I intend to draw attention to it:

Not one of the environmental protection ideas enacted in the last 20 years has done a damned thing and the fact that there is no change in this trend is proof of it.

There ... deny that.

The Willamette River is far cleaner now than it was in the '60s. The Ozone Hole is beginning to contract. Rivers don't catch fire in Chicago anymore. And you are fast approaching the credibility lever of Elvis.

 

[Old Rocks]

hey lets just break a bunch of mirrors and send the pieces into orbit

Too late. They already thought of it.

I also heard another solution. They get these huge tubes and put them on the ocean floor. The gas down that deep has what we need. I don't remember if its carbon monoxide or what, but the tubes allow the gas to make it to the surface. Once it reaches the surface, it has a greenhouse effect and it cleans up smog.

Who knows Skull? All we know is if we leave it up to you right wingers, nothing will ever get done.

I'm not a right winger asshole. I am a pragmatist not a pie in the sky moron. Sure let's just fill the atmosphere with particulate matter that will reflect sunlight and scatter radio and TV signals and interfere with our satellite network. yeah fucking brilliant.

Every bit as brilliant as continueing to add to the GHGs in the atmosphere.

 

[krotchdog]

old rock is a scurrilous lying crock of shit (this is not a flame, its old rocks words with old rocks name placed in front)

old crock knowingly posted false information in environment under climate change

how can I address old crocks post here, I will have to spend hours looking for the answer like before and than I find out old rock willingly and knowingly posted a false report, not only did old man post the false report but old man had a rebutal ready in case he got found out

this kind of stuff makes me sick, further look at the vile old man says about others, and than we are suppose to take his word and if we dont we get old crokes vile mouth


http://www.usmessageboard.com/environment/73527-climate-change-the-simple-argument.html


old rock is a scurrilous lying crock of shit (this is not a flame, its old rocks words with old rocks name placed in front)

 

[code1211]

hey lets just break a bunch of mirrors and send the pieces into orbit

Too late. They already thought of it.

I also heard another solution. They get these huge tubes and put them on the ocean floor. The gas down that deep has what we need. I don't remember if its carbon monoxide or what, but the tubes allow the gas to make it to the surface. Once it reaches the surface, it has a greenhouse effect and it cleans up smog.

Who knows Skull? All we know is if we leave it up to you right wingers, nothing will ever get done.

...............

Not so fast there, Bucko... Under Bush, a President who is still attacked by the Obama campaign about a half year after the campaign should have ended, we unleashed the ethanol fiasco. This, with only a single move, raised the cost of food world wide, reduced the gas mileage of all vehicles that use it, drained money from the Treasury for gas that was being sent to Venezuela to Europe and increased agricultural subsidies to those who were making more money on the newly inflated costs per bushel on goods that ended up in everything from Pepsi to disposable cutlery.

Right wingers can be and are just as stupid, short sighted, ill informed and knee jerk reactionary as left wingers. You simply can't underestimate the lack of intelligence needed to hold power in either party.

 

[code1211]

And just ask yourself: what possible motives do scientists have to claim that global warming is happening? Wealth? Fame? Really, because most of them are professors or research scientists, and even when they write a book about their research they don't make much money nor do they become very famous. Can you name a scientist that would fit that example, cause I can name thousands that don't.

And what possible motives do oil companies, Saudi and other Arab businessmen, Republican and corrupt politicians, among many others whose livelihoods and wealth are connected with the fossil fuel industry have to deny it? Stay wealthy. Stay in business. From my perspective their interests are enough to rationalize the possible permanent harm they are doing to our planet and each of us and our descendents. It wouldn't be the first time that an industry has denied any part or responsibility in the harm its caused just so it can continue to generate wealth.[/QUOTE]

...............

A scientist who has profited from Anthropogenic Global warming Hysteria? James Hansen. What other scientist will profit from a panic over Global Warming? Any scientist in any field that can concievably tie his particular area of research to the hot topic of the day, which is today, AGW.

Do Oil Companies need to fight against the propaganda of Global Warming? No. They sell oil which is used in everything we use on a daily basis and they sell fossil fuels which take us everywhere we go, grow everything we eat, transport everything we buy and provide us with heat, light and energy in our homes and businesses.

Without Fossil Fuels, our civilization is ended. Big oil companies don't need to convince us to use it. Their only problem is figuring out how to get more of it to satisfy the demand.

 

[code1211]

Here's a fact that is routinely ignored, yes I intend to draw attention to it:

Not one of the environmental protection ideas enacted in the last 20 years has done a damned thing and the fact that there is no change in this trend is proof of it.

There ... deny that.

The Willamette River is far cleaner now than it was in the '60s. The Ozone Hole is beginning to contract. Rivers don't catch fire in Chicago anymore. And you are fast approaching the credibility lever of Elvis.

...........

I think that river was in Cleveland. Your point, though, is well taken. America's environment is more clean today than it has been probably since the start of the 20th Century. To hear the cries of the Environmentalists, though, you'd think that we are continually going downhill despite the efforts expended in the past.

At some point, rational people who don't study the issue much must ask the question posed above. If we've done all of this to combat the problem and the problem persists, are we doing effective things? The rhetoric of the enviro crowd should reflect the progress as well as the possible upcoming problems to avoid this kind of response.

Too many of them are simply crying "wolf!" because it is stylish to do so.

 

[Old Rocks]

old rock is a scurrilous lying crock of shit (this is not a flame, its old rocks words with old rocks name placed in front)

old crock knowingly posted false information in environment under climate change

how can I address old crocks post here, I will have to spend hours looking for the answer like before and than I find out old rock willingly and knowingly posted a false report, not only did old man post the false report but old man had a rebutal ready in case he got found out

this kind of stuff makes me sick, further look at the vile old man says about others, and than we are suppose to take his word and if we dont we get old crokes vile mouth


http://www.usmessageboard.com/environment/73527-climate-change-the-simple-argument.html


old rock is a scurrilous lying crock of shit (this is not a flame, its old rocks words with old rocks name placed in front)

My, my, having a regular little hissy, are we? Can't stand to end up on the losing end of an arguement, and much too lazy to do real research.