Shanghai’s Unbelievable Pollution Problem Started The Week Badly, Ended Worse

[ScienceRocks]

This is how America would look like without regulations and the epa.

Think hard before you oppose them.

Even as a republican I believed in regulation and the epa! This was the line I wouldn't let the republicans cross and they attempted it. Well, I am now a democrat.

 

[Old Rocks]

The People's Republic of China is the pinnacle of a state where government controls absolutely everything.

If government control is the key to a clean environment then why are Communist countries such environmental nightmares?

Now what are you trying to say here? That all government is communist? Really?

 

[IsaacNewton]

Shanghai’s Unbelievable Pollution Problem Started The Week Badly, Ended Worse

For the seventh day this month, Shanghai officials have warned children and the elderly to stay inside in a city where 24 hours exposed to the off-the-charts pollution would have hazardous consequences to one’s health. Hundreds of flights and sporting events have been cancelled, while face masks and air purifiers sold out in stores. All week, the pollution level hovered at “heavily” and “severely” polluted, according to Shanghai’s Air Quality Index, at up to 31 times the recommended levels.

Bloomberg on Twitter

PHOTOS: Shanghai's Unbelievable Pollution Problem Started The Week Badly, Ended Worse | ThinkProgress

Coal, oil and low regulations are killing china.

You'd think someone in these heavy polluted places would open 'oxygen bars'. Come in and breath! Shades of Soylent Green taking place all over the world. And one has to take note, even a dog doesn't crap in it's own yard.

 

[Old Rocks]

Here in Oregon we have had a couple of GOP Governors that were very good for the environment, one that was steller, Governor Tom McCall. In those days, I was an Independent. Today, because of the extreme right wing and anti-science policies of the GOP I am a Democrat.

 

[fncceo]

The People's Republic of China is the pinnacle of a state where government controls absolutely everything.

If government control is the key to a clean environment then why are Communist countries such environmental nightmares?

Now what are you trying to say here? That all government is communist? Really?

Is that really how you read that? Really?

 

[peach174]

No one on the right is saying no regulations.
They are saying get rid of the ridiculous ones.

Here are a few
8 ridiculous EPA rules polluting your life | Rare

Speaking of ridiculous- that link takes you to this:
A clean-up plan lingering from Barack Obama’s EPA could make a contaminated Texas river even worse

Not 8 EPA rules.

Too bad you did not see the original link of it in 2013 when it was posted.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Shanghai’s Unbelievable Pollution Problem Started The Week Badly, Ended Worse

For the seventh day this month, Shanghai officials have warned children and the elderly to stay inside in a city where 24 hours exposed to the off-the-charts pollution would have hazardous consequences to one’s health. Hundreds of flights and sporting events have been cancelled, while face masks and air purifiers sold out in stores. All week, the pollution level hovered at “heavily” and “severely” polluted, according to Shanghai’s Air Quality Index, at up to 31 times the recommended levels.

Bloomberg on Twitter

PHOTOS: Shanghai's Unbelievable Pollution Problem Started The Week Badly, Ended Worse | ThinkProgress

Coal, oil and low regulations are killing china.

And the reality is, in the last few days, Shanghai has been one of the cleaner cities in China.

But people only look to Shanghai and Beijing.

Shanghai right now is 80 on the PM2.5 scale. Above 50 is considered bad.

Lanzhou is at 961, a place outside is at 999 (they don't go above 999 ever, the pollution just stops getting higher, apparently).

Shanghai Air Pollution: Real-time PM2.5 Air Quality Index (AQI)

Lanzhou Air Pollution: Real-time PM2.5 Air Quality Index (AQI)

 

[skookerasbil]

Shanghai’s Unbelievable Pollution Problem Started The Week Badly, Ended Worse

For the seventh day this month, Shanghai officials have warned children and the elderly to stay inside in a city where 24 hours exposed to the off-the-charts pollution would have hazardous consequences to one’s health. Hundreds of flights and sporting events have been cancelled, while face masks and air purifiers sold out in stores. All week, the pollution level hovered at “heavily” and “severely” polluted, according to Shanghai’s Air Quality Index, at up to 31 times the recommended levels.

Bloomberg on Twitter

PHOTOS: Shanghai's Unbelievable Pollution Problem Started The Week Badly, Ended Worse | ThinkProgress

Coal, oil and low regulations are killing china.

And the reality is, in the last few days, Shanghai has been one of the cleaner cities in China.

But people only look to Shanghai and Beijing.

Shanghai right now is 80 on the PM2.5 scale. Above 50 is considered bad.

Lanzhou is at 961, a place outside is at 999 (they don't go above 999 ever, the pollution just stops getting higher, apparently).

Shanghai Air Pollution: Real-time PM2.5 Air Quality Index (AQI)

Lanzhou Air Pollution: Real-time PM2.5 Air Quality Index (AQI)

irrelevant post................

In 30 years, China's coal production will increase by 50%. lol......and the AGW k00ks want us to cut CO2 here in the US!! Another prime example of progressives not being able to connect the dots. Like, "Hmmm........maybe if I cut my gorgan off, I'll be able to ball better!!"

http://www.climatecentral.org/blogs/chinas-growing-coal-use-is-worlds-growing-problem-16999

 

[Correll]

This is how America would look like without regulations and the epa.

Think hard before you oppose them.

This is the Logical Fallacy of the False Dilemma.


False Dilemma


"When only two choices are presented yet more exist, or a spectrum of possible choices exists between two extremes. False dilemmas are usually characterized by “either this or that” language, but can also be characterized by omissions of choices. "




We need fewer regulations and will still have a fine environment.


China needs more and will still have a shitty environment for a long time.


The two situations are very different.

 

[Correll]

1.Agriculture built civilization
2. agriculture is needed to feed this world
3. We don't need fossil fuels to power our homes. There is other means like nuclear, hydro, solar and wind

Lefties have been fighting nuclear for generations.

 

[Old Rocks]

This is how America would look like without regulations and the epa.

Think hard before you oppose them.

This is the Logical Fallacy of the False Dilemma.


False Dilemma


"When only two choices are presented yet more exist, or a spectrum of possible choices exists between two extremes. False dilemmas are usually characterized by “either this or that” language, but can also be characterized by omissions of choices. "




We need fewer regulations and will still have a fine environment.


China needs more and will still have a shitty environment for a long time.


The two situations are very different.

The situation will be the same if assholes like you get your way.

 

[Old Rocks]

1.Agriculture built civilization
2. agriculture is needed to feed this world
3. We don't need fossil fuels to power our homes. There is other means like nuclear, hydro, solar and wind

Lefties have been fighting nuclear for generations.

We don't need nuclear now. Too costly, too fraught with problems. Solar and wind can supply all our needs for as far out into the future as we can see.

 

[Correll]

This is how America would look like without regulations and the epa.

Think hard before you oppose them.

This is the Logical Fallacy of the False Dilemma.


False Dilemma


"When only two choices are presented yet more exist, or a spectrum of possible choices exists between two extremes. False dilemmas are usually characterized by “either this or that” language, but can also be characterized by omissions of choices. "




We need fewer regulations and will still have a fine environment.


China needs more and will still have a shitty environment for a long time.


The two situations are very different.

The situation will be the same if assholes like you get your way.

And there we have the Logical Fallacy of False Dilemma AGAIN.


I called the other lefty on his/your false choice above.


That you can just make it again, shows that you have no shame.

 

[Correll]

1.Agriculture built civilization
2. agriculture is needed to feed this world
3. We don't need fossil fuels to power our homes. There is other means like nuclear, hydro, solar and wind

Lefties have been fighting nuclear for generations.

We don't need nuclear now. Too costly, too fraught with problems. Solar and wind can supply all our needs for as far out into the future as we can see.

LOL!!! Thanks for proving my point.


Solar and wind are not ready.

 

[Old Rocks]

But solar, wind, and other clean energy? They’re expanding. Last year, they attracted a record $329 billion in investment—nearly six times the total in 2004, according to a report this month by Bloomberg New Energy Finance or BNEF. Wind and solar also installed a record amount of power capacity.

The clean energy revolution is not entirely immune to cheap oil, which has lowered prices at the pump. In the United States, where gas prices are now below $2 a gallon in many places, sales of SUVs rose last year while those for electric vehicles fell after several years of growth. Yet globally, sales of EVs continue to increase.

“We’re not saying there’s no impact, but we’re not seeing a significant impact yet,” says Angus McCrone, BNEF’s chief editor. “There’s a lot of momentum behind clean energy.”
Why Solar and Wind Are Thriving Despite Cheap Fossil Fuels

And now that the installation of grid scale storage has began, solar and wind will only continue to go down in price. Even natural gas cannot compete.

 

[Correll]

But solar, wind, and other clean energy? They’re expanding. Last year, they attracted a record $329 billion in investment—nearly six times the total in 2004, according to a report this month by Bloomberg New Energy Finance or BNEF. Wind and solar also installed a record amount of power capacity.

The clean energy revolution is not entirely immune to cheap oil, which has lowered prices at the pump. In the United States, where gas prices are now below $2 a gallon in many places, sales of SUVs rose last year while those for electric vehicles fell after several years of growth. Yet globally, sales of EVs continue to increase.

“We’re not saying there’s no impact, but we’re not seeing a significant impact yet,” says Angus McCrone, BNEF’s chief editor. “There’s a lot of momentum behind clean energy.”
Why Solar and Wind Are Thriving Despite Cheap Fossil Fuels

And now that the installation of grid scale storage has began, solar and wind will only continue to go down in price. Even natural gas cannot compete.

Every time I dig in to check the claimed numbers I find that solar and wind are only competitive because of government subsidies.

Maybe some day they will actually be competitive.


But not today.

 

[Old Rocks]

Electricity enabled by fossil fuels trades at roughly 7-7.5 cents per kilowatt-hour, but just outside L.A. a new plant currently in the works is set to 3.6 cents per kilowatt-hour. Elsewhere, in Dubai, a bid worth a record-breaking US 2.99 cents per kilowatt hour was accepted. Solar energy is already cheaper than coal in the world’s second most populated country, India.

All of these prices were made subsidies not included, unlike coal, gas or oil which amount to $452 billion each year across G20 states.

Last December, Congress extended the federal investment tax credit which gives a tax credit of 30 percent of the value of solar projects. Under the new scheme, the 30 percent solar tax credit will extend through 2019 and then decline gradually to 10 percent in 2022. After 2022 the credit will be eliminated for residential solar installations and will continue at 10 percent for commercial ones.

Meanwhile, fossil fuels will still be subsidized even though the tech is centuries old. Apparently, solar and wind deserve subsidies only for a couple of years until they’ve matured, which if fair in this context, but not in the larger one where fossil fuels still retain enormous subsidies. This is essentially a form of disloyal competition.

Despite this setback, solar energy contractors are already working hard to push the solar energy kilowatt-hour price tag down to the point where it’s least just as cheap as fossil fuels post-2020 — tax credits or not.

That’s a nationwide plan, in the United States, because solar energy is already cheaper without subsidies than subsidized fossil fuels in many sunny places. So far, 30 million Americans enjoy clean solar energy that’s cheaper than their fossil run utility electricity.

Solar energy now cheaper than fossil fuels even without subsidies

Solar and wind are going to push coal out of the market very soon, and natural gas out a couple of decades down the road.

 

[Old Rocks]

But solar, wind, and other clean energy? They’re expanding. Last year, they attracted a record $329 billion in investment—nearly six times the total in 2004, according to a report this month by Bloomberg New Energy Finance or BNEF. Wind and solar also installed a record amount of power capacity.

The clean energy revolution is not entirely immune to cheap oil, which has lowered prices at the pump. In the United States, where gas prices are now below $2 a gallon in many places, sales of SUVs rose last year while those for electric vehicles fell after several years of growth. Yet globally, sales of EVs continue to increase.

“We’re not saying there’s no impact, but we’re not seeing a significant impact yet,” says Angus McCrone, BNEF’s chief editor. “There’s a lot of momentum behind clean energy.”
Why Solar and Wind Are Thriving Despite Cheap Fossil Fuels

And now that the installation of grid scale storage has began, solar and wind will only continue to go down in price. Even natural gas cannot compete.

Every time I dig in to check the claimed numbers I find that solar and wind are only competitive because of government subsidies.

Maybe some day they will actually be competitive.


But not today.

Quit lying. You do not 'dig' into the numbers at all, you just flap ignorant yap. Otherwise you would link to your sources, as I do.

 

[Correll]

Electricity enabled by fossil fuels trades at roughly 7-7.5 cents per kilowatt-hour, but just outside L.A. a new plant currently in the works is set to 3.6 cents per kilowatt-hour. Elsewhere, in Dubai, a bid worth a record-breaking US 2.99 cents per kilowatt hour was accepted. Solar energy is already cheaper than coal in the world’s second most populated country, India.

All of these prices were made subsidies not included, unlike coal, gas or oil which amount to $452 billion each year across G20 states.

Last December, Congress extended the federal investment tax credit which gives a tax credit of 30 percent of the value of solar projects. Under the new scheme, the 30 percent solar tax credit will extend through 2019 and then decline gradually to 10 percent in 2022. After 2022 the credit will be eliminated for residential solar installations and will continue at 10 percent for commercial ones.

Meanwhile, fossil fuels will still be subsidized even though the tech is centuries old. Apparently, solar and wind deserve subsidies only for a couple of years until they’ve matured, which if fair in this context, but not in the larger one where fossil fuels still retain enormous subsidies. This is essentially a form of disloyal competition.

Despite this setback, solar energy contractors are already working hard to push the solar energy kilowatt-hour price tag down to the point where it’s least just as cheap as fossil fuels post-2020 — tax credits or not.

That’s a nationwide plan, in the United States, because solar energy is already cheaper without subsidies than subsidized fossil fuels in many sunny places. So far, 30 million Americans enjoy clean solar energy that’s cheaper than their fossil run utility electricity.

Solar energy now cheaper than fossil fuels even without subsidies

Solar and wind are going to push coal out of the market very soon, and natural gas out a couple of decades down the road.

Sure it is. I've been hearing that song for decades.


Can't be bothered to dig though your numbers today. In the past, these claims have always been false.

 

[Old Rocks]

https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine...nergy-costs-wind-energy-costs-LCOE-Lazard.png

The cost of coal, natural gas, and nuclear will go up. The cost of solar and wind will continue to come down, particularly as grid scale storage comes online.