"Severe" Shortage in Special Ed. Here is Why.

[SweetSue92]

Are the other kids in the room special needs kids as well? If not it seems that one special needs kid throwing a tantrum can interfere with the education of an entire class of normal kids. This can't be right, can it?

It is absolutely right. That's what a "room clear" is. The special ed child melts down--either an aide is available or not--but you have to get the other kids out so they don't get hurt. Some children are out of their own classroom multiple times a week for these situations, walking the halls, waiting for the special needs child to calm down and then leave.

I'm trying to tell people what a dire situation this is. THIS is a huge part of the teacher shortage.

 

[Woodznutz]

It is absolutely right. That's what a "room clear" is. The special ed child melts down--either an aide is available or not--but you have to get the other kids out so they don't get hurt. Some children are out of their own classroom multiple times a week for these situations, walking the halls, waiting for the special needs child to calm down and then leave.

I'm trying to tell people what a dire situation this is. THIS is a huge part of the teacher shortage.

Like deliberately placing a rotten apple in a barrel of good ones. Smart.

My liberal city has given the right of way to pedestrians over vehicles when crossing the streets. Now instead of a single pedestrian waiting for 40 people in cars to pass by, 40 people in cars have to wait for a single person to cross the street. That's 'progress', according to progressives.

 

[Seymour Flops]

It is absolutely right. That's what a "room clear" is. The special ed child melts down--either an aide is available or not--but you have to get the other kids out so they don't get hurt. Some children are out of their own classroom multiple times a week for these situations, walking the halls, waiting for the special needs child to calm down and then leave.

I'm trying to tell people what a dire situation this is. THIS is a huge part of the teacher shortage.

Yes, and as far as I know, this is not something mentioned in pre-service teacher programs. I was shocked by things like that when I first started teaching Sped in public school in a 3-5 elementary. Although I should have been forewarned when the district made me get certified in "CPI," which was a one day training. Three hours of de-escalation methods, and three hours of wrassling.

As so often the case, it is liberalism that has led to this. The scenes you show are schools that followed the law, and emptied the class instead of dragging the tantrum throwing child out. Because in the liberal hive-mind, the needs of the (peferred) few always outweigh then needs of the many.

My principals encouraged us to restrain the child and get him out of there. I was willing to do it, but I was taking a chance. Anything had gone wrong, I would have hung out to dry for not following the official procedures. But, if I had insisted on following the procedures, the principal would have dealt with that at contract time. Hobbson's choices like that will drive out the typical teacher, leaving only the best and the worst behind.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Based on the "room clear" pictures above they belong in an institution, not a school.

Are the other kids in the room special needs kids as well? If not it seems that one special needs kid throwing a tantrum can interfere with the education of an entire class of normal kids. This can't be right, can it?

If schools actually accommodate this behavior they've got bigger problems than they realize.

They do and they do. Yes, that really happens, and with alarming frequency. It isn't a one time story about some other school somewhere.

 

[Woodznutz]

They do and they do. Yes, that really happens, and with alarming frequency. It isn't a one time story about some other school somewhere.

I didn't realize the school system had failed so badly. When I was in school these kids wouldn't have been allowed in the building much less the classroom.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I didn't realize the school system had failed so badly. When I was in school these kids wouldn't have been allowed in the building much less the classroom.

In my day, a child could be expelled. Now public schools are stuck with them. That's why I laugh when people compare the results of private schools to public schools.

 

[SweetSue92]

Like deliberately placing a rotten apple in a barrel of good ones. Smart.

My liberal city has given the right of way to pedestrians over vehicles when crossing the streets. Now instead of a single pedestrian waiting for 40 people in cars to pass by, 40 people in cars have to wait for a single person to cross the street. That's 'progress', according to progressives.

All kids deserve an education, even difficult and/or disabled ones, and maybe particularly then. When I was in school, special needs kids were automatically "segregated". This wasn't necessary and wasn't good for them or us. Now, however, the pendulum has swung too far the other way, so that the idea is it's always a good idea to have kids "integrated" into the general education classroom.

It's not. As in most things, a balanced approach is best.

 

[Woodznutz]

All kids deserve an education, even difficult and/or disabled ones, and maybe particularly then. When I was in school, special needs kids were automatically "segregated". This wasn't necessary and wasn't good for them or us. Now, however, the pendulum has swung too far the other way, so that the idea is it's always a good idea to have kids "integrated" into the general education classroom.

It's not. As in most things, a balanced approach is best.

I would think that kids deserve the education that best serves their needs.

 

[SweetSue92]

Yes, and as far as I know, this is not something mentioned in pre-service teacher programs. I was shocked by things like that when I first started teaching Sped in public school in a 3-5 elementary. Although I should have been forewarned when the district made me get certified in "CPI," which was a one day training. Three hours of de-escalation methods, and three hours of wrassling.

As so often the case, it is liberalism that has led to this. The scenes you show are schools that followed the law, and emptied the class instead of dragging the tantrum throwing child out. Because in the liberal hive-mind, the needs of the (peferred) few always outweigh then needs of the many.

My principals encouraged us to restrain the child and get him out of there. I was willing to do it, but I was taking a chance. Anything had gone wrong, I would have hung out to dry for not following the official procedures. But, if I had insisted on following the procedures, the principal would have dealt with that at contract time. Hobbson's choices like that will drive out the typical teacher, leaving only the best and the worst behind.

All of this, every word.

And not enough teachers--especially not special ed teachers--are willing to speak out. Special ed teachers especially consider being physically assaulted on the job just "part of the job"--to the point of being injured and even hospitalized.

But it shouldn't be. In fact, it can't be. No other profession considers physical abuse something you should endure. But teachers do. But again in reality, no one can endure it for long. So special ed teachers just quit in shame rather than say, hey, I'm getting beat up on the job.

One more thing.

More shame comes in saying this, because the unspoken assumption is that if you say physical violence in the workplace is not okay it means you don't care about the kids. That's not true. You can fully understand that children don't mean to hurt you, that they are learning, etc, and STILL say I shouldn't have to endure this.

But we are a messed up profession and we too often get in our own way.

 

[SweetSue92]

In my day, a child could be expelled. Now public schools are stuck with them. That's why I laugh when people compare the results of private schools to public schools.

Yes, and again, this.

If private schools take vouchers, they must also then take the 'room clear' children.

 

[SweetSue92]

I didn't realize the school system had failed so badly. When I was in school these kids wouldn't have been allowed in the building much less the classroom.

It's not the schools so much as the vast laws surrounding special education. And then, when parents are dissatisfied, they hire an "advocate" for their child, to tell the school everything ELSE the school must do for the child.

Advocates won't matter a bit once there are no teachers left. Many special ed parents are wonderful, but some are just a nightmare. They have treated special ed staff like garbage for years and I wonder--uh, are you TRYING to drive everyone out of the profession?

 

[Woodznutz]

All of this, every word.

And not enough teachers--especially not special ed teachers--are willing to speak out. Special ed teachers especially consider being physically assaulted on the job just "part of the job"--to the point of being injured and even hospitalized.

But it shouldn't be. In fact, it can't be. No other profession considers physical abuse something you should endure. But teachers do. But again in reality, no one can endure it for long. So special ed teachers just quit in shame rather than say, hey, I'm getting beat up on the job.

One more thing.

More shame comes in saying this, because the unspoken assumption is that if you say physical violence in the workplace is not okay it means you don't care about the kids. That's not true. You can fully understand that children don't mean to hurt you, that they are learning, etc, and STILL say I shouldn't have to endure this.

But we are a messed up profession and we too often get in our own way.

When I was in elementary school I viewed my teachers as disciplinarians first, teachers second (surrogate parents, never). Everything was done with a sense of order.

 

[SweetSue92]

If these kids hurt someone they should be hurt in return. They'll soon get the message.

I disagree with that. But they should absolutely be removed from any situation where they can hurt anyone

 

[Woodznutz]

I disagree with that. But they should absolutely be removed from any situation where they can hurt anyone

Upon reflection, I edited that comment out.

It seems to me that someone from outside of the school system will have to come to the rescue. The system has become inbred, with similar results of actual inbreeding.

 

[Disir]

How much education (or pay) is necessary to babysit a bunch of deranged kids?

lolwut?

Nope.

Kids are mainstreamed so the school district can save money. They will get a kid off an IEP as soon as they can. If you have to remove all of the kids so one child can have a melt down, then that kid needs to be in a contained classroom. It's dressed up as liberal but it's not.

It is a complete and total team effort for one kid. I will try to do this as briefly as possible. I had a school that had been trying to get a parent to go to an IEP meeting and had repeatedly requested a formal diagnosis. This kid had been on an IEP since he had started school. He had been seen by a school psychologist. We have one school psychologist for an entire district. The school was frustrated. As it turns out there is a difference between an evaluation that is done by a school psychologist and a psychological evaluation. Those can only done by a psychologist. I don't care what anyone says. The question that is pivotal when getting your kid an evaluation is this: Will the Social Security Administration accept this when applying for SSI? I don't care if you get to the end and you don't need to. That is not the point. The point is that document will help you get what you need.

What the school didn't know was that the parent had some cognitive limitations and could neither read nor write. Additionally, this individual could not comprehend the information that was received verbally. This individual had been shamed repeatedly by those in positions of "authority" (doctors, teachers, dentists, etc.) because the IQ was not tattooed on the forehead. The school can't give the kid what is needed because they need this additional information.

Getting the kid in to see a psychologist can be a nightmare. It requires a bit of homework. I looked for psychologists that could provide recommendations. I specifically asked if they tested for things like autism or whatever was suspected. There was usually a 6 month to a year wait to get them in for testing. That is about $2500 out of pocket. There are places that do not accept Medicaid because there is too much paperwork and they don't pay. It's too much of a hassle. There is a backlog.

I take that evaluation to a psychiatrist and they prescribe medication. There is a good 30 days sometimes for that to kick in and adjustments are made along the way. That child is going to check in every 30 days or so with the psychologist. The school needs to know because it impacts the kids behavior. That's if the kid is willing to take the medication. No cheeking or that miraculous ability to get it half way down your throat and then cough it back up. Paperwork has to be filled out by the psychiatrist or doctor so the kid can take the medication at school. That kid may require therapy. Sometimes they visit the schools and sometimes they don't.

Speaking of doctors and therapy--where I am at I need a doctor to make a referral to obtain speech therapy, physical therapy and occupational therapy because that child may get so many speech, OT and PT at school but really need those additional sessions. That is not even touching additional testing with a neurologist or physical limitations. Where I am at there is a current backlog to get kids into see a pediatrician and no one is accepting new patients because of the changes to Medicaid so parents have to locate a pediatrician worth a damn that is close. Sometimes the parents don't have transportation and they can't take off work easily because........rent.

That is one child and it's a full time job in and of itself. It's hard on everyone and if navigating it is hard as hell for me then it is impossible for the parent mentioned above. Yet, I have never, ever had any school fight getting a kid necessary services. I set up meetings between parents and teachers and they were always willing to meet and engage with the parents. The problems are primarily the system itself. In my state the IEP can be pulled up for a kid at any school but one district might use a program that allows the teachers to add documentation and notes of what they are doing and the progress being made. If the kid moves and the other district doesn't have that program then time is wasted. I had a teacher say that one of my kids could live on their own and I had to ask specific questions like can you see this child managing money, paying bills etc. Well, no. These are literally life and death questions.

 

[Woodznutz]

lolwut?

Nope.

Kids are mainstreamed so the school district can save money. They will get a kid off an IEP as soon as they can. If you have to remove all of the kids so one child can have a melt down, then that kid needs to be in a contained classroom. It's dressed up as liberal but it's not.

It is a complete and total team effort for one kid. I will try to do this as briefly as possible. I had a school that had been trying to get a parent to go to an IEP meeting and had repeatedly requested a formal diagnosis. This kid had been on an IEP since he had started school. He had been seen by a school psychologist. We have one school psychologist for an entire district. The school was frustrated. As it turns out there is a difference between an evaluation that is done by a school psychologist and a psychological evaluation. Those can only done by a psychologist. I don't care what anyone says. The question that is pivotal when getting your kid an evaluation is this: Will the Social Security Administration accept this when applying for SSI? I don't care if you get to the end and you don't need to. That is not the point. The point is that document will help you get what you need.

What the school didn't know was that the parent had some cognitive limitations and could neither read nor write. Additionally, this individual could not comprehend the information that was received verbally. This individual had been shamed repeatedly by those in positions of "authority" (doctors, teachers, dentists, etc.) because the IQ was not tattooed on the forehead. The school can't give the kid what is needed because they need this additional information.

Getting the kid in to see a psychologist can be a nightmare. It requires a bit of homework. I looked for psychologists that could provide recommendations. I specifically asked if they tested for things like autism or whatever was suspected. There was usually a 6 month to a year wait to get them in for testing. That is about $2500 out of pocket. There are places that do not accept Medicaid because there is too much paperwork and they don't pay. It's too much of a hassle. There is a backlog.

I take that evaluation to a psychiatrist and they prescribe medication. There is a good 30 days sometimes for that to kick in and adjustments are made along the way. That child is going to check in every 30 days or so with the psychologist. The school needs to know because it impacts the kids behavior. That's if the kid is willing to take the medication. No cheeking or that miraculous ability to get it half way down your throat and then cough it back up. Paperwork has to be filled out by the psychiatrist or doctor so the kid can take the medication at school. That kid may require therapy. Sometimes they visit the schools and sometimes they don't.

Speaking of doctors and therapy--where I am at I need a doctor to make a referral to obtain speech therapy, physical therapy and occupational therapy because that child may get so many speech, OT and PT at school but really need those additional sessions. That is not even touching additional testing with a neurologist or physical limitations. Where I am at there is a current backlog to get kids into see a pediatrician and no one is accepting new patients because of the changes to Medicaid so parents have to locate a pediatrician worth a damn that is close. Sometimes the parents don't have transportation and they can't take off work easily because........rent.

That is one child and it's a full time job in and of itself. It's hard on everyone and if navigating it is hard as hell for me then it is impossible for the parent mentioned above. Yet, I have never, ever had any school fight getting a kid necessary services. I set up meetings between parents and teachers and they were always willing to meet and engage with the parents. The problems are primarily the system itself. In my state the IEP can be pulled up for a kid at any school but one district might use a program that allows the teachers to add documentation and notes of what they are doing and the progress being made. If the kid moves and the other district doesn't have that program then time is wasted. I had a teacher say that one of my kids could live on their own and I had to ask specific questions like can you see this child managing money, paying bills etc. Well, no. These are literally life and death questions.

And they say the good old days weren't really that good. I wuz there. They were that good.

 

[SweetSue92]

lolwut?

Nope.

Kids are mainstreamed so the school district can save money. They will get a kid off an IEP as soon as they can. If you have to remove all of the kids so one child can have a melt down, then that kid needs to be in a contained classroom. It's dressed up as liberal but it's not.

It is a complete and total team effort for one kid. I will try to do this as briefly as possible. I had a school that had been trying to get a parent to go to an IEP meeting and had repeatedly requested a formal diagnosis. This kid had been on an IEP since he had started school. He had been seen by a school psychologist. We have one school psychologist for an entire district. The school was frustrated. As it turns out there is a difference between an evaluation that is done by a school psychologist and a psychological evaluation. Those can only done by a psychologist. I don't care what anyone says. The question that is pivotal when getting your kid an evaluation is this: Will the Social Security Administration accept this when applying for SSI? I don't care if you get to the end and you don't need to. That is not the point. The point is that document will help you get what you need.

What the school didn't know was that the parent had some cognitive limitations and could neither read nor write. Additionally, this individual could not comprehend the information that was received verbally. This individual had been shamed repeatedly by those in positions of "authority" (doctors, teachers, dentists, etc.) because the IQ was not tattooed on the forehead. The school can't give the kid what is needed because they need this additional information.

Getting the kid in to see a psychologist can be a nightmare. It requires a bit of homework. I looked for psychologists that could provide recommendations. I specifically asked if they tested for things like autism or whatever was suspected. There was usually a 6 month to a year wait to get them in for testing. That is about $2500 out of pocket. There are places that do not accept Medicaid because there is too much paperwork and they don't pay. It's too much of a hassle. There is a backlog.

I take that evaluation to a psychiatrist and they prescribe medication. There is a good 30 days sometimes for that to kick in and adjustments are made along the way. That child is going to check in every 30 days or so with the psychologist. The school needs to know because it impacts the kids behavior. That's if the kid is willing to take the medication. No cheeking or that miraculous ability to get it half way down your throat and then cough it back up. Paperwork has to be filled out by the psychiatrist or doctor so the kid can take the medication at school. That kid may require therapy. Sometimes they visit the schools and sometimes they don't.

Speaking of doctors and therapy--where I am at I need a doctor to make a referral to obtain speech therapy, physical therapy and occupational therapy because that child may get so many speech, OT and PT at school but really need those additional sessions. That is not even touching additional testing with a neurologist or physical limitations. Where I am at there is a current backlog to get kids into see a pediatrician and no one is accepting new patients because of the changes to Medicaid so parents have to locate a pediatrician worth a damn that is close. Sometimes the parents don't have transportation and they can't take off work easily because........rent.

That is one child and it's a full time job in and of itself. It's hard on everyone and if navigating it is hard as hell for me then it is impossible for the parent mentioned above. Yet, I have never, ever had any school fight getting a kid necessary services. I set up meetings between parents and teachers and they were always willing to meet and engage with the parents. The problems are primarily the system itself. In my state the IEP can be pulled up for a kid at any school but one district might use a program that allows the teachers to add documentation and notes of what they are doing and the progress being made. If the kid moves and the other district doesn't have that program then time is wasted. I had a teacher say that one of my kids could live on their own and I had to ask specific questions like can you see this child managing money, paying bills etc. Well, no. These are literally life and death questions.

I wish everyone everywhere in the USA would read this.

Everyone. Everywhere.

Because yes.

Teachers are willing, for the most part by the vast majority, and also vastly able.

But we are not superhuman. We can only do what we can do. And lately, we have just been asked to do too much. This is such a true and gripping account. And it is in EVERY school coast to coast.

 

[Disir]

I wish everyone everywhere in the USA would read this.

Everyone. Everywhere.

Because yes.

Teachers are willing, for the most part by the vast majority, and also vastly able.

But we are not superhuman. We can only do what we can do. And lately, we have just been asked to do too much. This is such a true and gripping account. And it is in EVERY school coast to coast.

Well, thanks! I kind of butchered it as I meant to say meets every 30 days with a psychiatrist.

I think parents and teachers are often pitted against each other and sometimes unwittingly. Sometimes when a parent walks through the doors of a school they are bringing their experiences as a student with them. What they hear, no matter what is said, is that they are a bad parent. Heaven help them if they have a child that is special needs they are often having to navigate that alone with no prior experience and you can see exactly where they can get overwhelmed. They may see themselves as having done what they should have and the teachers cannot do it all or even all of the above stuff listed.

 

[Unkotare]

...They will get a kid off an IEP as soon as they can. ...

Completely wrong.

 

[Unkotare]

I wish everyone everywhere in the USA would read this.

Everyone. Everywhere.

Because yes.

Teachers are willing, for the most part by the vast majority, and also vastly able.

But we are not superhuman. We can only do what we can do. And lately, we have just been asked to do too much. This is such a true and gripping account. And it is in EVERY school coast to coast.

If you can't do your job, QUIT.