"Settlements destroy chance for peace" - Caroline Glick's amazing reality-check

[Coyote]

How did we get there in the first place??

Seriously????

In case you've missed many history lessons, the land is called JUDEAH.

As in JEWS

The land is called after the tribe that sat there IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If we "stole", it was from the squatters who took this land from US, not the other way around!

Ancient history doesn't confer modern rights to land. A people can't just return and force the indiginous inhabitants off simply because they held the land 3000 years ago. No where ELSE in the world is this logic applied!

Really? Do you live in the US? Do you presume that your race, religion or ethnicity constitutes the "indiginous" inhabitants of that part of the US?

Nope.

The difference, of course, is that the Europeans who settled the US were true outsiders. The Jews are not outsiders in Israel.

Nope. The only difference is we are a different world than we were 200 years ago and 2000 years ago with different ethics.

I have never once made the claim that Jews were outsiders or "squatters". While there are many immigrants on both sides - both what are currently called "Palestinians" and "Jews" have been residing in that area since before the re-creation of the nation we now call Israel.

Have the Iraquois been given back their national lands? Cheyenne? Anyone else?

 

[Coyote]

History, according to Coyote...

Parcel of land in West Bank.

Pre-1948: a vacant piece of desert within the British Mandate.
1948-1967: a vacant piece of desert within the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (acquired by military conquest in 1948 Israeli War of Independence).
1967-2012: a vacant piece of desert within the West Bank - a territory within the control of Israel and the PA (acquired by military conquest during 6 Day War).
2013: Israel builds houses on the vacant piece of desert, but does not annex the territory, leaving it open to future negotiations.

Coyote's conclusion: Israel stole the land from the "Palestinians."

It wasn't vacant, it was inhabited according to Mandate and Ottoman census figures. How about arguing facts rather than pro-Israel mythology?

 

[Lipush]

​

What I saw is a proud defender of a nation's war crimes spouting lies, like the demographic lies she told and the ethnic cleansing lies she told. She ignored Israels ethnic cleansing altogether, somehow magically converting what the world calls Israels ethnic cleansing to Palestinians ethnic cleansing. I know Hitlers proud of all his Zionist progenies, like her. You mention excellent points she made, I heard none. What might those excellent points be, from the perspective of a Zionist like you? Sherri

"Demographic lies"?

Her claims are well supported by action REPORTS, and they are very much authentic and true. The Arab population birth-rate is dropping, while the Jewish one is on rise.

You can check it out of you do not believe it.

What makes her claims true? The fact that she points out, perfectly so, that the gap of more than 3 million people is going to miraculously disappear once the settlements are gone.

That's absurd, to say the least.

Second is the fact that the Palestinians have claimed ethnic cleansing, but completely ignore the fact that Jews cannot live in JUDEA, just because they're Jews.

Is it some kind of reversed racism? Because that is exactly how it sounds like.!

And for last, you pointing out that I cannot say anything truthful just because of my opinions, and HERS, just because I'm a Zionist, says much more about you than me.

You say you're a justice seeker, but your posts are highly hateful, yes, I am a Zionist, and I am proud of it.

You don't like it?

You can shove your dislike to where the sun doesn't shine. I'm sick and tired of your bigotry and racism.

You cannot even identify and discuss even one of those excellent points you claim she made. Why am I not surprised?

Her claims are supported by the Israeli statistic department results.

You claims those are lies, those are not.

And you cannot prove what is just not true.

But don't let small facts disturb you

 

[Lipush]

And how did you get it in the first place? Theft.

Presumably it's ok if I walk into your house, force everyone out at gunpoint, and claim it for my own? That's your logic.

How did we get there in the first place??

Seriously????

In case you've missed many history lessons, the land is called JUDEAH.

As in JEWS

The land is called after the tribe that sat there IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If we "stole", it was from the squatters who took this land from US, not the other way around!

Ancient history doesn't confer modern rights to land. A people can't just return and force the indiginous inhabitants off simply because they held the land 3000 years ago. No where ELSE in the world is this logic applied!

Even international law recognizes the connection between Israel and those lands!

You can't be serious!

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

​

"Demographic lies"?

Her claims are well supported by action REPORTS, and they are very much authentic and true. The Arab population birth-rate is dropping, while the Jewish one is on rise.

You can check it out of you do not believe it.

What makes her claims true? The fact that she points out, perfectly so, that the gap of more than 3 million people is going to miraculously disappear once the settlements are gone.

That's absurd, to say the least.

Second is the fact that the Palestinians have claimed ethnic cleansing, but completely ignore the fact that Jews cannot live in JUDEA, just because they're Jews.

Is it some kind of reversed racism? Because that is exactly how it sounds like.!

And for last, you pointing out that I cannot say anything truthful just because of my opinions, and HERS, just because I'm a Zionist, says much more about you than me.

You say you're a justice seeker, but your posts are highly hateful, yes, I am a Zionist, and I am proud of it.

You don't like it?

You can shove your dislike to where the sun doesn't shine. I'm sick and tired of your bigotry and racism.

You cannot even identify and discuss even one of those excellent points you claim she made. Why am I not surprised?

Her claims are supported by the Israeli statistic department results.

You claims those are lies, those are not.

And you cannot prove what is just not true.

But don't let small facts disturb you

All I heard was a Zionist proudly bragging about her nations war crimes. Are those her excellent points you are speaking about?

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

How did we get there in the first place??

Seriously????

In case you've missed many history lessons, the land is called JUDEAH.

As in JEWS

The land is called after the tribe that sat there IN THE FIRST PLACE.

If we "stole", it was from the squatters who took this land from US, not the other way around!

Ancient history doesn't confer modern rights to land. A people can't just return and force the indiginous inhabitants off simply because they held the land 3000 years ago. No where ELSE in the world is this logic applied!

Even international law recognizes the connection between Israel and those lands!

You can't be serious!

What intl law recognizes this? I know of no intl law that says a kingdom that existed over 2000 years ago, its alleged descendants, have the right to return 2000 years later and ethnically cleanse the land that made up that kingdom and surrounding land, of the population in the land in the 1900s. I think your claim is complete BS! Sherri

 

[ForeverYoung436]

History, according to Coyote...

Parcel of land in West Bank.

Pre-1948: a vacant piece of desert within the British Mandate.
1948-1967: a vacant piece of desert within the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (acquired by military conquest in 1948 Israeli War of Independence).
1967-2012: a vacant piece of desert within the West Bank - a territory within the control of Israel and the PA (acquired by military conquest during 6 Day War).
2013: Israel builds houses on the vacant piece of desert, but does not annex the territory, leaving it open to future negotiations.

Coyote's conclusion: Israel stole the land from the "Palestinians."

It wasn't vacant, it was inhabited according to Mandate and Ottoman census figures. How about arguing facts rather than pro-Israel mythology?

Well then, why did Mark Twain claim the land was empty? And why did Churchill claim that so many Arabs flooded into Palestine during the Mandate period, that Jews would never be able to keep up?

 

[Coyote]

History, according to Coyote...

Parcel of land in West Bank.

Pre-1948: a vacant piece of desert within the British Mandate.
1948-1967: a vacant piece of desert within the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (acquired by military conquest in 1948 Israeli War of Independence).
1967-2012: a vacant piece of desert within the West Bank - a territory within the control of Israel and the PA (acquired by military conquest during 6 Day War).
2013: Israel builds houses on the vacant piece of desert, but does not annex the territory, leaving it open to future negotiations.

Coyote's conclusion: Israel stole the land from the "Palestinians."

It wasn't vacant, it was inhabited according to Mandate and Ottoman census figures. How about arguing facts rather than pro-Israel mythology?

Well then, why did Mark Twain claim the land was empty? And why did Churchill claim that so many Arabs flooded into Palestine during the Mandate period, that Jews would never be able to keep up?

Why do the census records show otherwise? It was not an uninhabited land.

Also, as I pointed out - there was both Arab and Jewish immigration going on - that's not in dispute.

One thing to keep in mind - Mark Twain and Churchill come from a very pro-Europena/western culture and that colors what they consider "inhabited", "civilized" and worthy of consideration. Desert regions haven't been able support large, concentrated populations until fairly recently. That doesn't mean they were "uninhabited" and for the taking.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

So all of the West Bank is tract housing with zero lot lines? There's no vacant land there at all?

Interesting theory.

Completely contrary to the facts, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

More "Palestinian" logic:

"Palestine is not Jordan"

"Okay, so from 1948-1967, the West Bank was part of Jordan. So what happened in 1967."

"Israel stole it from Palestine."

"I thought they took the land from Jordan."

"Its the same thing."

"But you just said that Palestine and Jordan are not the same thing."

"Well, they are when it serves my purposes."

 

[SherriMunnerlyn]

History, according to Coyote...

Parcel of land in West Bank.

Pre-1948: a vacant piece of desert within the British Mandate.
1948-1967: a vacant piece of desert within the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan (acquired by military conquest in 1948 Israeli War of Independence).
1967-2012: a vacant piece of desert within the West Bank - a territory within the control of Israel and the PA (acquired by military conquest during 6 Day War).
2013: Israel builds houses on the vacant piece of desert, but does not annex the territory, leaving it open to future negotiations.

Coyote's conclusion: Israel stole the land from the "Palestinians."

It wasn't vacant, it was inhabited according to Mandate and Ottoman census figures. How about arguing facts rather than pro-Israel mythology?

Well then, why did Mark Twain claim the land was empty? And why did Churchill claim that so many Arabs flooded into Palestine during the Mandate period, that Jews would never be able to keep up?

I was not aware either Mark Twain or Churchill were Historians or residents of Palestine.

 

[Coyote]

So all of the West Bank is tract housing with zero lot lines? There's no vacant land there at all?

Interesting theory.

Completely contrary to the facts, but interesting nonetheless.

Who claimed that theory?

 

[HistoryBefore67]

You did.

My hypothetical related to a vacant piece of land, and you asserted that there are none.

 

[Coyote]

You did.

My hypothetical related to a vacant piece of land, and you asserted that there are none.

Link please.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

I gave a hypothetical about a "vacant parcel of land in the West Bank" (there are many of those), and you responded with by stating:

It wasn't vacant, it was inhabited according to Mandate and Ottoman census figures.

So, are you denying that there is a lot of vacant land in the West Bank? Is it your belief that every time Israel builds a "settlement" they must first dismantle existing Arab homes?

If that is your belief, you have been mislead.

 

[Coyote]

I gave a hypothetical about a "vacant parcel of land in the West Bank" (there are many of those), and you responded with by stating:

It wasn't vacant, it was inhabited according to Mandate and Ottoman census figures.

So, are you denying that there is a lot of vacant land in the West Bank? Is it your belief that every time Israel builds a "settlement" they must first dismantle existing Arab homes?

If that is your belief, you have been mislead.

You: Pre-1948: a vacant piece of desert within the British Mandate.

Me: It wasn't vacant, it was inhabited according to Mandate and Ottoman census figures.

Apparently it wasn't vacant. That's the starting point. I established it wasn't vacant with census information.

It's up to you to prove your assertion it was actually vacant. Then we can move on the next item.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

You clearly don't know what the definition of "vacant" is, so here's your link:

Dictionary.com - Free Online English Dictionary

 

[MHunterB]

It's not a "talking point", it's a serious issue of contention. The continuous theft of land erodes any possibility of a two state solution.

"Theft"..... Please... only in the minds of ignorant. know nothing, people You cant steal what you have

And how did you get it in the first place? Theft.

Presumably it's ok if I walk into your house, force everyone out at gunpoint, and claim it for my own? That's your logic.

But that is EXACTLY what the Jordanians did to the Jews of East Jerusalem when they captured it - and that is the (FALSE) 'basis' upon which "pro-Palestinians" insist EJ is now "occupied".

 

[Coyote]

"Theft"..... Please... only in the minds of ignorant. know nothing, people You cant steal what you have

And how did you get it in the first place? Theft.

Presumably it's ok if I walk into your house, force everyone out at gunpoint, and claim it for my own? That's your logic.

But that is EXACTLY what the Jordanians did to the Jews of East Jerusalem when they captured it - and that is the (FALSE) 'basis' upon which "pro-Palestinians" insist EJ is now "occupied".

Then that needs to be addressed but that is not part of the occupation in the West Bank.

 

[Coyote]

You clearly don't know what the definition of "vacant" is, so here's your link:

Dictionary.com - Free Online English Dictionary

va·cant
[vey-kuhnt] Show IPA
adjective
1. having no contents; empty; void: a vacant niche.
2. having no occupant; unoccupied: no vacant seats on this train.
3. not in use: a vacant room.
4. devoid of thought or reflection: a vacant mind.
5. characterized by, showing, or proceeding from lack of thought or intelligence: a vacant answer; a vacant expression on a face.

I refer you back to the census information.