Zone1 Serious Question About Abortion

[Road Runner]

One could say a woman who keeps a baby after a man doesn't want to is involved in involuntary servitude.

Either that or an angel.

 

[martybegan]

Either that or an angel.

I realize it is a simplified thought exercise, but it shows the inherent contradictions in legally only giving women the right to the legal consequences of abortion.

 

[Road Runner]

I realize it is a simplified thought exercise, but it shows the inherent contradictions in legally only giving women the right to the legal consequences of abortion.

Huh?

 

[martybegan]

Huh?

Look up the old "Choice for Men" arguments.

The basic premise is if women can legally get out of the responsibilities of being a parent via legal abortion, men should have a similar legal channel to declare they want nothing to do with the child.

 

[Road Runner]

Look up the old "Choice for Men" arguments.

The basic premise is if women can legally get out of the responsibilities of being a parent via legal abortion, men should have a similar legal channel to declare they want nothing to do with the child.

What if they do though?

 

[martybegan]

What if they do though?

Well the theory is it would make abortion on demand equal for men and women. It's usually just a legal theory argument, nothing more, because it ignores the needs and rights of a born child.

 

[alang1216]

Unless it's a case of rape nobody forced her to get pregnant in the first place.

So it is not slavery, it is corporal punishment? Not much better.

Very rare I know but if it was rape you ok with it?

 

[alang1216]

So if one day we decide that everyone suffering from a mental deficiency, no matter how slight, being labeled "not a person " is acceptable to you?

I'm not a believer that the world is only black and white:

• a fertilized egg is a person with superior rights to an adult
• people and events are either good or bad
• everyone is either male or female, smart or dumb, rich or poor, etc.

I see the world as shades of grey.

It isn't to the rest of humanity. But it does seem to that your definition needs some work and more logic to it. Every stroke victim and motorcycle rider is likely going to qualify for your warped designation....as well as every infant.

And you speak for all humanity?

At what point is a baby a person?

Admittedly a tough one but certainly somewhere after conception and before birth.

 

[Dayton3]

We men are always grateful when the woman we casually knocked up decides to have an abortion.

Especially when they don’t ask for any money for it:

Not all men feel that way.

Or have "knocked up" a woman casually.

 

[Road Runner]

So it is not slavery, it is corporal punishment? Not much better.

Very rare I know but if it was rape you ok with it?

1. Start making sense.
2. No, but it would be understandable and I wouldn't condemn it.

 

[Red Front]

Sounds more like compelling everyone else to pay for the consequences of actions and choices if you support abortion...
Especially the unborn child.

Forcing her to remain pregnant and give birth is much more expensive than the cost of an abortion. So you're not making any sense. Are you aware of how expensive it is to be pregnant and give birth? Who do you think bears the cost of pregnancy and birth when a woman is poor? Society. You and me and everyone else. When you force a woman to remain pregnant and give birth to a child that she doesn't want that creates an immense amount of problems for everyone. Your insincere, do-gooder "concern" for embryos and fetuses in other people's bodies that you don't know or actually care about, is what incurs the greatest cost to taxpayers, not a woman going to a clinic to end her pregnancy.

 

[alang1216]

1. Start making sense.

Maybe you could find someone to explain it to you?

2. No, but it would be understandable and I wouldn't condemn it.

So abortion after a rape is 'understandable'. OK. What if the woman uses a contraceptive that fails and she gets pregnant and has an abortion. Is that 'understandable'?

 

[initforme]

Maybe you could find someone to explain it to you?


So abortion after a rape is 'understandable'. OK. What if the woman uses a contraceptive that fails and she gets pregnant and has an abortion. Is that 'understandable'?

Then the maker of the contraceptive is liable for damages.

 

[alang1216]

Then the maker of the contraceptive is liable for damages.

Damages? Does the drug company then have to raise the child? Sounds like a great solution.

 

[Coyote]

So if one day we decide that everyone suffering from a mental deficiency, no matter how slight, being labeled "not a person " is acceptable to you?

It isn't to the rest of humanity. But it does seem to that your definition needs some work and more logic to it. Every stroke victim and motorcycle rider is likely going to qualify for your warped designation....as well as every infant.

At what point is a baby a person?

When it takes it’s first breath.

 

[Coyote]

Look up the old "Choice for Men" arguments.

The basic premise is if women can legally get out of the responsibilities of being a parent via legal abortion, men should have a similar legal channel to declare they want nothing to do with the child.

Men share none of the risks, they shouldn’t have equal say.

 

[Red Front]

Maybe you could find someone to explain it to you?


So abortion after a rape is 'understandable'. OK. What if the woman uses a contraceptive that fails and she gets pregnant and has an abortion. Is that 'understandable'?

There is no issue here since it's self-evident to most rational people that an embryo isn't a person, much less a person with the same rights as the woman that conceived it and is carrying it. It's the woman's rights and interests that takes precedence over the imaginary rights of an embryo or unviable, undeveloped fetus. No one should have the right to impose pregnancy on a woman.

 

[Red Front]

When it takes it’s first breath.

No, that's not reasonable for most people. Life in the womb after 6 months gestation, especially after eight and nine months is a prenatal human being. Even most leftists aren't going to support your cause for abortion rights if you're pushing for willy-nilly late-term abortions. Early in the pregnancy she should have the right to end the pregnancy for whatever reason, but if she waits seven, eight or nine months, that life in her womb is a human being.

 

[Red Front]

Men share none of the risks, they shouldn’t have equal say.

Women shouldn't have the right to impose fatherhood on men that don't want to be fathers, just as men or anyone else doesn't have the right to impose pregnancy on a woman, early in the pregnancy.

 

[JohnDB]

When it takes it’s first breath.

So are you saying that the presence of oxygen and nitrogen in a babies lungs is the point when the baby achieves personhood?

And before that point the child is not a person?
No biological or sentience qualifications?
So partial birth abortion in the 9th month of a pregnancy is perfectly fine?