Sen Joe McCarthy: American Patriot and Hero

[Cecilie1200]

Well...that settles it doesn't it!!!! McCarthy was obviously an American hero!!!!

But don't you have to take a moment to reconsider when the central part of your argument is: McCarthy lied and ruined lives, and you can't come up with a single life ruined?

Owen Lattimore. His life was ruined by McCarthy. Along with all of his staff, associates, friends and many of his family.
And hundreds of others.
You know it.
Called Red Scare witch hunt. Guilty until proven innocent.
Frank makes the case that Joe was a great American investigator rooting communists out of society.
If so, ole Joe was not very good at it. Most of those convicted were later found to be innocent and let go.

Owen Lattimore was GUILTY, you idiot.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Well...that settles it doesn't it!!!! McCarthy was obviously an American hero!!!!

But don't you have to take a moment to reconsider when the central part of your argument is: McCarthy lied and ruined lives, and you can't come up with a single life ruined?

Owen Lattimore. His life was ruined by McCarthy. Along with all of his staff, associates, friends and many of his family.
And hundreds of others.
You know it.
Called Red Scare witch hunt. Guilty until proven innocent.
Frank makes the case that Joe was a great American investigator rooting communists out of society.
If so, ole Joe was not very good at it. Most of those convicted were later found to be innocent and let go.

Wow. Thanks for that, I'm glad you brought him up.

There's a whole chapter devoted to Owen Lattimore in "Blacklisted by History" and I'll share with you some of the highlights.

Overall, McCarthy fingered Lattimore as a key Soviet agent but then backed off. McCarthy claimed Owen was responsible for the US State Department pro ChiCom stance at a time when Chiang Kai-shek needed the assistance of the USA. The Tydings Hearings apparently exonerated Owen including a Tydings implication that the FBI agreed that Owen was beyond reproach. However, much like everything else around McCarthey, history and facts have not been kind to Progressive world view.

While Owen is not mentioned in Venona Cables as an asset, here's what we discover.

First, Tydings outright lied about the FBI's and Hoovers stance on Lattimore. In a recently released memo from April 1950, Lou Nichols states, "he couldn't understand what had come over Sen Tydings, as he recalled very distinctly that the Director had been asked the question as to how he would regard Lattimore's loyalty, and the Director stated that if her were on the Loyalty Board he would question it; further the Director had also regarded Lattimore as a security risk

What type of man was Progressive Hero Owen Lattimore? Apparently, according to Evans he "Seldom met a Red atrocity he couldn't like or find an excuse for." While touring the notorious Magadan-Kolyma Siberian Death Camp he remarked "instead of gin, sin and brawling of an old fashioned gold rush, extensive greenhouses growing tomatoes, cucumbers and melons to make sure hardy miners get enough vitamins"

Here's what Wikipedia said of Lattimore's workers paradise

"The Arctic Death Camps

In 1937, at the height of the Purges, Stalin ordered an intensification of the hardships prisoners were forced to endure.[4] Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn quotes camp commander Naftaly Frenkel as establishing the new law of the Archipelago: "We have to squeeze everything out of a prisoner in the first three months — after that we don't need him anymore." [5] The system of hard labor and minimal or no food reduced most prisoners to helpless "goners" (dokhodyaga, in Russian).

Robert Conquest, Yevgenia Ginzburg, Anne Applebaum, Adam Hochschild and others (see bibliography) describe the Kolyma camps in some detail. The suffering of the prisoners was exacerbated by the presence of ordinary criminals, who terrorized the "political" prisoners. Death in the Kolyma camps came in many forms, including: overwork, starvation, malnutrition, mining accidents, exposure, murder at the hands of criminals, and beatings at the hands of guards. A director of the Sevvostlag complex of camps, colonel Sergey Garanin is said to have personally shot whole brigades of prisoners for not fulfilling their daily quotas in the late 1930s.[6] Escape was difficult, owing to the climate and physical isolation of the region, but some still attempted it. Escapees, if caught, were often torn to shreds by camp guard dogs. The use of torture as punishment was also common. Soviet dissident historian Roy Medvedev has compared the conditions in the Kolyma camps to Auschwitz."

Kolyma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, a May 1941 FBI custodial detention notice obtained for Owen under FOIA and reproduced in "Blacklisted" describes the "Professors 'nationalistic tenancies' as 'Communist'"

Yes, Owen Lattimore was not mentioned in Venona, but Hoover didn't trust him and he sure loved everything about the USSR and the Chicoms.

 

[Gadawg73]

But don't you have to take a moment to reconsider when the central part of your argument is: McCarthy lied and ruined lives, and you can't come up with a single life ruined?

Owen Lattimore. His life was ruined by McCarthy. Along with all of his staff, associates, friends and many of his family.
And hundreds of others.
You know it.
Called Red Scare witch hunt. Guilty until proven innocent.
Frank makes the case that Joe was a great American investigator rooting communists out of society.
If so, ole Joe was not very good at it. Most of those convicted were later found to be innocent and let go.

Wow. Thanks for that, I'm glad you brought him up.

There's a whole chapter devoted to Owen Lattimore in "Blacklisted by History" and I'll share with you some of the highlights.

Overall, McCarthy fingered Lattimore as a key Soviet agent but then backed off. McCarthy claimed Owen was responsible for the US State Department pro ChiCom stance at a time when Chiang Kai-shek needed the assistance of the USA. The Tydings Hearings apparently exonerated Owen including a Tydings implication that the FBI agreed that Owen was beyond reproach. However, Much like everything else around McCarthey, history and facts have not been kind to Progressive world view.

While Owen is not mentioned in Venona Cables as an asset, here's what we discover.

First, Tydings outright lied about the FBI's and Hoovers stance on Lattimore. In a recently released memo from April 1950, Lou Nichols states, "he couldn't understand what had come over Sen Tydings, as he recalled very distinctly that the Director had been asked the question as to how he would regard Lattimore's loyalty, and the Director stated that if her were on the Loyalty Board he would question it; further the Director had also regarded Lattimore as a security risk

What type of man was Progressive Hero Owen Lattimore. Apparently, according to Evans he "Seldom met a Red atrocity he couldn't like or find an excuse for." While touring the notorious Magadan-Kolyma Siberian Death Camp he remarked "instead of gin, sin and brawling of an old fashioned gold rush, extensive greenhouses growing tomatoes, cucumbers and melons to make syre hardy miners get enough vitamins"

Here's what Wikipedia said of Lattimore's workers paradise

"The Arctic Death Camps

In 1937, at the height of the Purges, Stalin ordered an intensification of the hardships prisoners were forced to endure.[4] Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn quotes camp commander Naftaly Frenkel as establishing the new law of the Archipelago: "We have to squeeze everything out of a prisoner in the first three months — after that we don't need him anymore." [5] The system of hard labor and minimal or no food reduced most prisoners to helpless "goners" (dokhodyaga, in Russian).

Robert Conquest, Yevgenia Ginzburg, Anne Applebaum, Adam Hochschild and others (see bibliography) describe the Kolyma camps in some detail. The suffering of the prisoners was exacerbated by the presence of ordinary criminals, who terrorized the "political" prisoners. Death in the Kolyma camps came in many forms, including: overwork, starvation, malnutrition, mining accidents, exposure, murder at the hands of criminals, and beatings at the hands of guards. A director of the Sevvostlag complex of camps, colonel Sergey Garanin is said to have personally shot whole brigades of prisoners for not fulfilling their daily quotas in the late 1930s.[6] Escape was difficult, owing to the climate and physical isolation of the region, but some still attempted it. Escapees, if caught, were often torn to shreds by camp guard dogs. The use of torture as punishment was also common. Soviet dissident historian Roy Medvedev has compared the conditions in the Kolyma camps to Auschwitz."

Kolyma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, a May 1941 FBI custodial detention notice obtained for Owen under FOIA and reproduced in "Blacklisted" describes the "Professors 'nationalistic tenancies' as 'Communist'"

Yes, Owen Lattimore was not mentioned in Venona, but Hoover didn't trust him and he sure loved everything about the USSR and the Chicoms.

You claimed we could not name anyone.
Lattimore was no communist spy, he was imprisoned on false evidence, his life was ruined and you claim it is all OK because "Hoover didn't trust him".

You need to move to Iran Frank. They do things your way over there.

 

[Gadawg73]

But don't you have to take a moment to reconsider when the central part of your argument is: McCarthy lied and ruined lives, and you can't come up with a single life ruined?

Owen Lattimore. His life was ruined by McCarthy. Along with all of his staff, associates, friends and many of his family.
And hundreds of others.
You know it.
Called Red Scare witch hunt. Guilty until proven innocent.
Frank makes the case that Joe was a great American investigator rooting communists out of society.
If so, ole Joe was not very good at it. Most of those convicted were later found to be innocent and let go.

Owen Lattimore was GUILTY, you idiot.

All of his convictions were overturned.
You are not very intelligent. Stupid is what comes to mind.
The entire case was a fraud against him, witnesses lied and he was let go.
The evidence against him was such a fraud he never was even charged with being a communist.
He was convicted of perjury!
DUMB ASS.
Please do not vote and if they call you for jury duty please state the obvious and inform them you are severely mentally handicapped.

 

[Gadawg73]

What is truly amazing here are the folks that ARETOTALLY IGNORANT and have no clue as to the legal system, laws and the very foundation of this country in criminal proceedings:

YOU ARE PRESUMED INNOCENT
YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE YOU ARE INNOCENT IN ANY COURT IN AMERICA
THE ACCUSER, THE PROSECUTOR, ALWAYS HAS TO PROVE THEIR CASE
AN ACCUSED NEVER HAS TO TESIFY WHEN CHARGED
AN ACCUSATION IS NEVER EVIDENCE
WHY? THE DEFENDANT AND CHARGED IS ALWAYS PRESUMED INNOCENT
THE PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE IS THE FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN JUDICIAL SYSTEM.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Owen Lattimore. His life was ruined by McCarthy. Along with all of his staff, associates, friends and many of his family.
And hundreds of others.
You know it.
Called Red Scare witch hunt. Guilty until proven innocent.
Frank makes the case that Joe was a great American investigator rooting communists out of society.
If so, ole Joe was not very good at it. Most of those convicted were later found to be innocent and let go.

Wow. Thanks for that, I'm glad you brought him up.

There's a whole chapter devoted to Owen Lattimore in "Blacklisted by History" and I'll share with you some of the highlights.

Overall, McCarthy fingered Lattimore as a key Soviet agent but then backed off. McCarthy claimed Owen was responsible for the US State Department pro ChiCom stance at a time when Chiang Kai-shek needed the assistance of the USA. The Tydings Hearings apparently exonerated Owen including a Tydings implication that the FBI agreed that Owen was beyond reproach. However, Much like everything else around McCarthey, history and facts have not been kind to Progressive world view.

While Owen is not mentioned in Venona Cables as an asset, here's what we discover.

First, Tydings outright lied about the FBI's and Hoovers stance on Lattimore. In a recently released memo from April 1950, Lou Nichols states, "he couldn't understand what had come over Sen Tydings, as he recalled very distinctly that the Director had been asked the question as to how he would regard Lattimore's loyalty, and the Director stated that if her were on the Loyalty Board he would question it; further the Director had also regarded Lattimore as a security risk

What type of man was Progressive Hero Owen Lattimore. Apparently, according to Evans he "Seldom met a Red atrocity he couldn't like or find an excuse for." While touring the notorious Magadan-Kolyma Siberian Death Camp he remarked "instead of gin, sin and brawling of an old fashioned gold rush, extensive greenhouses growing tomatoes, cucumbers and melons to make syre hardy miners get enough vitamins"

Here's what Wikipedia said of Lattimore's workers paradise

"The Arctic Death Camps

In 1937, at the height of the Purges, Stalin ordered an intensification of the hardships prisoners were forced to endure.[4] Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn quotes camp commander Naftaly Frenkel as establishing the new law of the Archipelago: "We have to squeeze everything out of a prisoner in the first three months — after that we don't need him anymore." [5] The system of hard labor and minimal or no food reduced most prisoners to helpless "goners" (dokhodyaga, in Russian).

Robert Conquest, Yevgenia Ginzburg, Anne Applebaum, Adam Hochschild and others (see bibliography) describe the Kolyma camps in some detail. The suffering of the prisoners was exacerbated by the presence of ordinary criminals, who terrorized the "political" prisoners. Death in the Kolyma camps came in many forms, including: overwork, starvation, malnutrition, mining accidents, exposure, murder at the hands of criminals, and beatings at the hands of guards. A director of the Sevvostlag complex of camps, colonel Sergey Garanin is said to have personally shot whole brigades of prisoners for not fulfilling their daily quotas in the late 1930s.[6] Escape was difficult, owing to the climate and physical isolation of the region, but some still attempted it. Escapees, if caught, were often torn to shreds by camp guard dogs. The use of torture as punishment was also common. Soviet dissident historian Roy Medvedev has compared the conditions in the Kolyma camps to Auschwitz."

Kolyma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, a May 1941 FBI custodial detention notice obtained for Owen under FOIA and reproduced in "Blacklisted" describes the "Professors 'nationalistic tenancies' as 'Communist'"

Yes, Owen Lattimore was not mentioned in Venona, but Hoover didn't trust him and he sure loved everything about the USSR and the Chicoms.

You claimed we could not name anyone.
Lattimore was no communist spy, he was imprisoned on false evidence, his life was ruined and you claim it is all OK because "Hoover didn't trust him".

You need to move to Iran Frank. They do things your way over there.

We claimed you couldn't name anyone INNOCENT, and you still haven't, because Lattimore was GUILTY. I would also argue the whole "life was ruined" thing, except that I don't care if it was or not, because he deserved it.

 

[Gadawg73]

Wow. Thanks for that, I'm glad you brought him up.

There's a whole chapter devoted to Owen Lattimore in "Blacklisted by History" and I'll share with you some of the highlights.

Overall, McCarthy fingered Lattimore as a key Soviet agent but then backed off. McCarthy claimed Owen was responsible for the US State Department pro ChiCom stance at a time when Chiang Kai-shek needed the assistance of the USA. The Tydings Hearings apparently exonerated Owen including a Tydings implication that the FBI agreed that Owen was beyond reproach. However, Much like everything else around McCarthey, history and facts have not been kind to Progressive world view.

While Owen is not mentioned in Venona Cables as an asset, here's what we discover.

First, Tydings outright lied about the FBI's and Hoovers stance on Lattimore. In a recently released memo from April 1950, Lou Nichols states, "he couldn't understand what had come over Sen Tydings, as he recalled very distinctly that the Director had been asked the question as to how he would regard Lattimore's loyalty, and the Director stated that if her were on the Loyalty Board he would question it; further the Director had also regarded Lattimore as a security risk

What type of man was Progressive Hero Owen Lattimore. Apparently, according to Evans he "Seldom met a Red atrocity he couldn't like or find an excuse for." While touring the notorious Magadan-Kolyma Siberian Death Camp he remarked "instead of gin, sin and brawling of an old fashioned gold rush, extensive greenhouses growing tomatoes, cucumbers and melons to make syre hardy miners get enough vitamins"

Here's what Wikipedia said of Lattimore's workers paradise

"The Arctic Death Camps

In 1937, at the height of the Purges, Stalin ordered an intensification of the hardships prisoners were forced to endure.[4] Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn quotes camp commander Naftaly Frenkel as establishing the new law of the Archipelago: "We have to squeeze everything out of a prisoner in the first three months — after that we don't need him anymore." [5] The system of hard labor and minimal or no food reduced most prisoners to helpless "goners" (dokhodyaga, in Russian).

Robert Conquest, Yevgenia Ginzburg, Anne Applebaum, Adam Hochschild and others (see bibliography) describe the Kolyma camps in some detail. The suffering of the prisoners was exacerbated by the presence of ordinary criminals, who terrorized the "political" prisoners. Death in the Kolyma camps came in many forms, including: overwork, starvation, malnutrition, mining accidents, exposure, murder at the hands of criminals, and beatings at the hands of guards. A director of the Sevvostlag complex of camps, colonel Sergey Garanin is said to have personally shot whole brigades of prisoners for not fulfilling their daily quotas in the late 1930s.[6] Escape was difficult, owing to the climate and physical isolation of the region, but some still attempted it. Escapees, if caught, were often torn to shreds by camp guard dogs. The use of torture as punishment was also common. Soviet dissident historian Roy Medvedev has compared the conditions in the Kolyma camps to Auschwitz."

Kolyma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, a May 1941 FBI custodial detention notice obtained for Owen under FOIA and reproduced in "Blacklisted" describes the "Professors 'nationalistic tenancies' as 'Communist'"

Yes, Owen Lattimore was not mentioned in Venona, but Hoover didn't trust him and he sure loved everything about the USSR and the Chicoms.

You claimed we could not name anyone.
Lattimore was no communist spy, he was imprisoned on false evidence, his life was ruined and you claim it is all OK because "Hoover didn't trust him".

You need to move to Iran Frank. They do things your way over there.

We claimed you couldn't name anyone INNOCENT, and you still haven't, because Lattimore was GUILTY. I would also argue the whole "life was ruined" thing, except that I don't care if it was or not, because he deserved it.

A Republican Judge overturned all of those bogus perjury convictions.
You are a moron.
Lattimore was never convicted of being a spy.
A 5th grader could Shephardize that case.
Stick to tiddly winks. The legal stuff is 20 feet over your head.
"He deserved it"
An innocent man that a Republican Judge letsout of prison because of afruaulent case and you state "he deserved it".
Please do not vote or participate in anything involving decisions of others. You are incapable of understanding basic American law, principles and reason.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Owen Lattimore. His life was ruined by McCarthy. Along with all of his staff, associates, friends and many of his family.
And hundreds of others.
You know it.
Called Red Scare witch hunt. Guilty until proven innocent.
Frank makes the case that Joe was a great American investigator rooting communists out of society.
If so, ole Joe was not very good at it. Most of those convicted were later found to be innocent and let go.

Owen Lattimore was GUILTY, you idiot.

All of his convictions were overturned.
You are not very intelligent. Stupid is what comes to mind.
The entire case was a fraud against him, witnesses lied and he was let go.
The evidence against him was such a fraud he never was even charged with being a communist.
He was convicted of perjury!
DUMB ASS.
Please do not vote and if they call you for jury duty please state the obvious and inform them you are severely mentally handicapped.

Yeah, and OJ is still looking for the real killer.

There's a difference between "guilty" and "convicted". "Guilty" means you fucking did it. "Convicted" means someone actually got through the haze of people protecting you and managed to punish you for what you fucking did.

Owen Lattimore was guilty. The case was not a fraud, and anyone who actually read the evidence - meaning not you, apparently - knew it wasn't a fraud. He was guilty.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What is truly amazing here are the folks that ARETOTALLY IGNORANT and have no clue as to the legal system, laws and the very foundation of this country in criminal proceedings:

YOU ARE PRESUMED INNOCENT
YOU ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE YOU ARE INNOCENT IN ANY COURT IN AMERICA
THE ACCUSER, THE PROSECUTOR, ALWAYS HAS TO PROVE THEIR CASE
AN ACCUSED NEVER HAS TO TESIFY WHEN CHARGED
AN ACCUSATION IS NEVER EVIDENCE
WHY? THE DEFENDANT AND CHARGED IS ALWAYS PRESUMED INNOCENT
THE PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE IS THE FOUNDATION OF AMERICAN JUDICIAL SYSTEM.

YOU are fucking ignorant if you think "presumed innocent" means "we don't investigate charges of wrongdoing against you to find out if you're guilty". Aside from the fact that Owen Lattimore was as guilty as the day is long, anyone who held that much influence and had that many accusations against him for that long a time needed to be investigated.

Next you'll be telling us how the cops shouldn't have investigated Charles Manson because that was "presuming his guilt". Dumbass.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Wow. Thanks for that, I'm glad you brought him up.

There's a whole chapter devoted to Owen Lattimore in "Blacklisted by History" and I'll share with you some of the highlights.

Overall, McCarthy fingered Lattimore as a key Soviet agent but then backed off. McCarthy claimed Owen was responsible for the US State Department pro ChiCom stance at a time when Chiang Kai-shek needed the assistance of the USA. The Tydings Hearings apparently exonerated Owen including a Tydings implication that the FBI agreed that Owen was beyond reproach. However, Much like everything else around McCarthey, history and facts have not been kind to Progressive world view.

While Owen is not mentioned in Venona Cables as an asset, here's what we discover.

First, Tydings outright lied about the FBI's and Hoovers stance on Lattimore. In a recently released memo from April 1950, Lou Nichols states, "he couldn't understand what had come over Sen Tydings, as he recalled very distinctly that the Director had been asked the question as to how he would regard Lattimore's loyalty, and the Director stated that if her were on the Loyalty Board he would question it; further the Director had also regarded Lattimore as a security risk

What type of man was Progressive Hero Owen Lattimore. Apparently, according to Evans he "Seldom met a Red atrocity he couldn't like or find an excuse for." While touring the notorious Magadan-Kolyma Siberian Death Camp he remarked "instead of gin, sin and brawling of an old fashioned gold rush, extensive greenhouses growing tomatoes, cucumbers and melons to make syre hardy miners get enough vitamins"

Here's what Wikipedia said of Lattimore's workers paradise

"The Arctic Death Camps

In 1937, at the height of the Purges, Stalin ordered an intensification of the hardships prisoners were forced to endure.[4] Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn quotes camp commander Naftaly Frenkel as establishing the new law of the Archipelago: "We have to squeeze everything out of a prisoner in the first three months — after that we don't need him anymore." [5] The system of hard labor and minimal or no food reduced most prisoners to helpless "goners" (dokhodyaga, in Russian).

Robert Conquest, Yevgenia Ginzburg, Anne Applebaum, Adam Hochschild and others (see bibliography) describe the Kolyma camps in some detail. The suffering of the prisoners was exacerbated by the presence of ordinary criminals, who terrorized the "political" prisoners. Death in the Kolyma camps came in many forms, including: overwork, starvation, malnutrition, mining accidents, exposure, murder at the hands of criminals, and beatings at the hands of guards. A director of the Sevvostlag complex of camps, colonel Sergey Garanin is said to have personally shot whole brigades of prisoners for not fulfilling their daily quotas in the late 1930s.[6] Escape was difficult, owing to the climate and physical isolation of the region, but some still attempted it. Escapees, if caught, were often torn to shreds by camp guard dogs. The use of torture as punishment was also common. Soviet dissident historian Roy Medvedev has compared the conditions in the Kolyma camps to Auschwitz."

Kolyma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, a May 1941 FBI custodial detention notice obtained for Owen under FOIA and reproduced in "Blacklisted" describes the "Professors 'nationalistic tenancies' as 'Communist'"

Yes, Owen Lattimore was not mentioned in Venona, but Hoover didn't trust him and he sure loved everything about the USSR and the Chicoms.

You claimed we could not name anyone.
Lattimore was no communist spy, he was imprisoned on false evidence, his life was ruined and you claim it is all OK because "Hoover didn't trust him".

You need to move to Iran Frank. They do things your way over there.

We claimed you couldn't name anyone INNOCENT, and you still haven't, because Lattimore was GUILTY. I would also argue the whole "life was ruined" thing, except that I don't care if it was or not, because he deserved it.

For the ADD crew:

• Lattimore had conferred (during the Hitler-Stalin pact) with the Soviet ambassador about Lattimore's upcoming assignment as President Roosevelt's adviser to Chiang-Kai-Shek — then trying to fend off the Communist revolution in his country.
• Credible testimony revealed "five episodes" wherein Lattimore — within the Politburo of the Communist Party — "participated as a full participant in the conspiracy."
• A former brigadier-general in the Soviet military intelligence testified to having been told that "Lattimore was one of our men."
• On page 218 of the McCarran committee's voluminous report of its year-long investigation, this bottom line: "[T]he subcommittee can come to no other conclusion but that Lattimore was for some time beginning in the 1930s a conscious, articulate instrument of the Soviet conspiracy."
The documented truth about the McCarthy investigations

Further, the losers try to use Lattimore, who lost not one single paycheck, as Johns Hopkins continued to pay him, and Harvard picked him up as a lecturer...

This is exactly the situation that our side has explained to Dimwit and Company numerous times:
Not only was no innocent 'ruined,' but they were often rewarded!

The only one ruined was the American hero, Senator Joseph McCarthy.

And Coulter sums it up succinctly:
"Claiming to have been “blacklisted” is Hollywood’s version of coming over on the Mayflower."

And louts like Dimwit and Co. continue to wring their hands for these erroneously rewarded Soviet agents.

 

[JakeStarkey]

For His sake, shut up, PC and CC, you morons. By your standards, Ollie North is a convicted turd. You both have lost this OP on the inability to argue and the willingness to have a collective brain fart.

You are absolute vote getters for the candidates you oppose.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Owen Lattimore. His life was ruined by McCarthy. Along with all of his staff, associates, friends and many of his family.
And hundreds of others.
You know it.
Called Red Scare witch hunt. Guilty until proven innocent.
Frank makes the case that Joe was a great American investigator rooting communists out of society.
If so, ole Joe was not very good at it. Most of those convicted were later found to be innocent and let go.

Wow. Thanks for that, I'm glad you brought him up.

There's a whole chapter devoted to Owen Lattimore in "Blacklisted by History" and I'll share with you some of the highlights.

Overall, McCarthy fingered Lattimore as a key Soviet agent but then backed off. McCarthy claimed Owen was responsible for the US State Department pro ChiCom stance at a time when Chiang Kai-shek needed the assistance of the USA. The Tydings Hearings apparently exonerated Owen including a Tydings implication that the FBI agreed that Owen was beyond reproach. However, Much like everything else around McCarthey, history and facts have not been kind to Progressive world view.

While Owen is not mentioned in Venona Cables as an asset, here's what we discover.

First, Tydings outright lied about the FBI's and Hoovers stance on Lattimore. In a recently released memo from April 1950, Lou Nichols states, "he couldn't understand what had come over Sen Tydings, as he recalled very distinctly that the Director had been asked the question as to how he would regard Lattimore's loyalty, and the Director stated that if her were on the Loyalty Board he would question it; further the Director had also regarded Lattimore as a security risk

What type of man was Progressive Hero Owen Lattimore. Apparently, according to Evans he "Seldom met a Red atrocity he couldn't like or find an excuse for." While touring the notorious Magadan-Kolyma Siberian Death Camp he remarked "instead of gin, sin and brawling of an old fashioned gold rush, extensive greenhouses growing tomatoes, cucumbers and melons to make syre hardy miners get enough vitamins"

Here's what Wikipedia said of Lattimore's workers paradise

"The Arctic Death Camps

In 1937, at the height of the Purges, Stalin ordered an intensification of the hardships prisoners were forced to endure.[4] Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn quotes camp commander Naftaly Frenkel as establishing the new law of the Archipelago: "We have to squeeze everything out of a prisoner in the first three months — after that we don't need him anymore." [5] The system of hard labor and minimal or no food reduced most prisoners to helpless "goners" (dokhodyaga, in Russian).

Robert Conquest, Yevgenia Ginzburg, Anne Applebaum, Adam Hochschild and others (see bibliography) describe the Kolyma camps in some detail. The suffering of the prisoners was exacerbated by the presence of ordinary criminals, who terrorized the "political" prisoners. Death in the Kolyma camps came in many forms, including: overwork, starvation, malnutrition, mining accidents, exposure, murder at the hands of criminals, and beatings at the hands of guards. A director of the Sevvostlag complex of camps, colonel Sergey Garanin is said to have personally shot whole brigades of prisoners for not fulfilling their daily quotas in the late 1930s.[6] Escape was difficult, owing to the climate and physical isolation of the region, but some still attempted it. Escapees, if caught, were often torn to shreds by camp guard dogs. The use of torture as punishment was also common. Soviet dissident historian Roy Medvedev has compared the conditions in the Kolyma camps to Auschwitz."

Kolyma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, a May 1941 FBI custodial detention notice obtained for Owen under FOIA and reproduced in "Blacklisted" describes the "Professors 'nationalistic tenancies' as 'Communist'"

Yes, Owen Lattimore was not mentioned in Venona, but Hoover didn't trust him and he sure loved everything about the USSR and the Chicoms.

You claimed we could not name anyone.
Lattimore was no communist spy, he was imprisoned on false evidence, his life was ruined and you claim it is all OK because "Hoover didn't trust him".

You need to move to Iran Frank. They do things your way over there.

Everyone knows that American Marxists known as Porgressives have lied about everything to do with McCarthy.

Lattimore was a spy, Lattimore was a Soviet sock puppet.

Lattimore toured a placed compared with Auschwitz and came back raving about how nice it was.

Lattmire is a tool, what's your excuse?

 

[uscitizen]

Frank is still defending Mccarthy?

Just wow.
He IS Frank burns.
I'd rather be dead than red.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

For His sake, shut up, PC and CC, you morons. By your standards, Ollie North is a convicted turd. You both have lost this OP on the inability to argue and the willingness to have a collective brain fart.

You are absolute vote getters for the candidates you oppose.

Hey Jake, the grown ups are talking. Why don't you go play with your xbox?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Frank is still defending Mccarthy?

Just wow.
He IS Frank burns.
I'd rather be dead than red.

Did the batteries on your GameBoy run out?

 

[uscitizen]

Frank is still defending Mccarthy?

Just wow.
He IS Frank burns.
I'd rather be dead than red.

Did the batteries on your GameBoy run out?

Man that is about a pitiful as a dead rat hanging on a barbed wire fence.


But again very Frank Burnsish...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Wow. Thanks for that, I'm glad you brought him up.

There's a whole chapter devoted to Owen Lattimore in "Blacklisted by History" and I'll share with you some of the highlights.

Overall, McCarthy fingered Lattimore as a key Soviet agent but then backed off. McCarthy claimed Owen was responsible for the US State Department pro ChiCom stance at a time when Chiang Kai-shek needed the assistance of the USA. The Tydings Hearings apparently exonerated Owen including a Tydings implication that the FBI agreed that Owen was beyond reproach. However, Much like everything else around McCarthey, history and facts have not been kind to Progressive world view.

While Owen is not mentioned in Venona Cables as an asset, here's what we discover.

First, Tydings outright lied about the FBI's and Hoovers stance on Lattimore. In a recently released memo from April 1950, Lou Nichols states, "he couldn't understand what had come over Sen Tydings, as he recalled very distinctly that the Director had been asked the question as to how he would regard Lattimore's loyalty, and the Director stated that if her were on the Loyalty Board he would question it; further the Director had also regarded Lattimore as a security risk

What type of man was Progressive Hero Owen Lattimore. Apparently, according to Evans he "Seldom met a Red atrocity he couldn't like or find an excuse for." While touring the notorious Magadan-Kolyma Siberian Death Camp he remarked "instead of gin, sin and brawling of an old fashioned gold rush, extensive greenhouses growing tomatoes, cucumbers and melons to make syre hardy miners get enough vitamins"

Here's what Wikipedia said of Lattimore's workers paradise

"The Arctic Death Camps

In 1937, at the height of the Purges, Stalin ordered an intensification of the hardships prisoners were forced to endure.[4] Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn quotes camp commander Naftaly Frenkel as establishing the new law of the Archipelago: "We have to squeeze everything out of a prisoner in the first three months — after that we don't need him anymore." [5] The system of hard labor and minimal or no food reduced most prisoners to helpless "goners" (dokhodyaga, in Russian).

Robert Conquest, Yevgenia Ginzburg, Anne Applebaum, Adam Hochschild and others (see bibliography) describe the Kolyma camps in some detail. The suffering of the prisoners was exacerbated by the presence of ordinary criminals, who terrorized the "political" prisoners. Death in the Kolyma camps came in many forms, including: overwork, starvation, malnutrition, mining accidents, exposure, murder at the hands of criminals, and beatings at the hands of guards. A director of the Sevvostlag complex of camps, colonel Sergey Garanin is said to have personally shot whole brigades of prisoners for not fulfilling their daily quotas in the late 1930s.[6] Escape was difficult, owing to the climate and physical isolation of the region, but some still attempted it. Escapees, if caught, were often torn to shreds by camp guard dogs. The use of torture as punishment was also common. Soviet dissident historian Roy Medvedev has compared the conditions in the Kolyma camps to Auschwitz."

Kolyma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, a May 1941 FBI custodial detention notice obtained for Owen under FOIA and reproduced in "Blacklisted" describes the "Professors 'nationalistic tenancies' as 'Communist'"

Yes, Owen Lattimore was not mentioned in Venona, but Hoover didn't trust him and he sure loved everything about the USSR and the Chicoms.

You claimed we could not name anyone.
Lattimore was no communist spy, he was imprisoned on false evidence, his life was ruined and you claim it is all OK because "Hoover didn't trust him".

You need to move to Iran Frank. They do things your way over there.

Everyone knows that American Marxists known as Porgressives have lied about everything to do with McCarthy.

Lattimore was a spy, Lattimore was a Soviet sock puppet.

Lattimore toured a placed compared with Auschwitz and came back raving about how nice it was.

Lattmire is a tool, what's your excuse?

CF, is it simply my impression, or has Dullard73 never used support of his position as in links and documentation?

Wonder why that is......?

Now 'fess up, Frank...have you paid Dullard to post just to make his side look bad?

 

[HUGGY]

Yet you still haven't come up with a single name. So put up or shut the fuck up

Well...that settles it doesn't it!!!! McCarthy was obviously an American hero!!!!

But don't you have to take a moment to reconsider when the central part of your argument is: McCarthy lied and ruined lives, and you can't come up with a single life ruined?

Fabulas suggestion Frankie! I'll pass. Having already lived through the period and recieved the input of my grand parents and parents at the time I'll have to go with that. It does not concern me that McCarthy may have been misunderstood. When looking at the bigger picture there was a "red scare" machine working hard to gin up fear against "commies" and the leftist hollywood crowd. McCarthy was in the lead in this smear campaign. I am not afraid of communists and neither was my family. They thought as I do that communism is and was foolish. It's demise has proven them correct.

We had just finished the most desperate fight for survival and were suckered into a fight with the Chinks via N. Korea. What our country needed was to back off from the war mentality. What we needed was to build up our defenses in a responsible way. McCarthys actions were irrisponsible. Simply put. He and the wack John Birch Society deserved a slap down. He is not worthy of reconsideration.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Well...that settles it doesn't it!!!! McCarthy was obviously an American hero!!!!

But don't you have to take a moment to reconsider when the central part of your argument is: McCarthy lied and ruined lives, and you can't come up with a single life ruined?

Fabulas suggestion Frankie! I'll pass. Having already lived through the period and recieved the input of my grand parents and parents at the time I'll have to go with that. It does not concern me that McCarthy may have been misunderstood. When looking at the bigger picture there was a "red scare" machine working hard to gin up fear against "commies" and the leftist hollywood crowd. McCarthy was in the lead in this smear campaign. I am not afraid of communists and neither was my family. They thought as I do that communism is and was foolish. It's demise has proven them correct.

We had just finished the most desperate fight for survival and were suckered into a fight with the Chinks via N. Korea. What our country needed was to back off from the war mentality. What we needed was to build up our defenses in a responsible way. McCarthys actions were irrisponsible. Simply put. He and the wack John Birch Society deserved a slap down. He is not worthy of reconsideration.

" Even the truth about Owen Lattimore, the most famous of McCarthy's "victims," has finally come out, thanks to a former Chinese espionage agent's memoirs and declassified FBI files, which go a long way to vindicate McCarthy's original charges. In retrospect, the cause McCarthy made his own — anticommunism — has proved to be more valid and durable than the basic assumptions of his anti-anti-Communist critics."
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/h/herman-mccarthy.html

 

[JakeStarkey]

Ollie North, by PC's figuring, then is nothing but a crummy convicted conservative.