Selective Salary Caps.

[GilbertArizona]

What are you talking about? When has anyone suggested capping anyone's salary except for bailed out companies? If a company is so deep in the weeds that they will go bankrupt if not propped up, they sure as hell don't need to be paying their executives 7 figure salaries. I just don't understand how you "conservatives" reconcile that.

The only thing I saw approaching this was a change in corporate law that would give shareholders of a corporation more direct say in executive compensation.

 

[DiamondDave]

usmb Board members have no problem telling government workers, that they make too much money, have too many benefits etc etc etc.... why not tell ceo's that failed and had to take gvt money to prop them up after they made their own mistakes.....?

Maybe some think they should limit salaries... I am one that says you get what you negotiate for... I may be upset if a person in government makes X amount, and I may even state that that job has no place in government, but I do not fault anyone in getting what they can in their personal compensation

But you also have to remember that we have a say in government thru our votes, through our efforts with representatives, etc... unless you are a voting stock member or employee, we have no say in what a company does

 

[DiamondDave]

Hording, or keeping much more than necessary, hurts the economy and society....we need these rich guys to stop hording and SPEND SPEND SPEND....on yard workers, construction work, on clothes, on cars, boats, on building the community a new center, or on a football stadium....THEY need to start spending so jobs can be created.....at this point they have withdrawn and are holding on to their money tightly....

The vast majority of Americans are not the rich. The vast majority of Americans are far more capable of stimulating the economy by consumer spending than the rich.

Why do Conservatives think that by only giving the rich tax breaks the economy will suddenly spring to life? Give everyone making $50,000 or less tax breaks and the spending will happen.

Sometimes I think conservatives are like the New York Yankees and their fans. If the Yankees can continue to buy championships in a league without salary caps, they are happy. With salary caps comes parity. More teams have a real chance at winning the World Series. Everyone then gets interested in baseball. Not just the richest teams and their fans.

Apply the baseball paradigm to the economy and suddenly coddling the rich seems silly when the big picture is considered.

Most under 50K to not pay income taxes anyway... hell, ~50% of the citizenry pays no federal income tax

I am not for tax breaks, per se.... I am for the equalization of tax rates so that every citizen pays the same % on every dollar earned... I am not for a punishment based system with some paying and others skating by with no payment and receiving governmental handouts

You have no right to salary cap the free society we supposedly live in

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Hording, or keeping much more than necessary, hurts the economy and society....we need these rich guys to stop hording and SPEND SPEND SPEND....on yard workers, construction work, on clothes, on cars, boats, on building the community a new center, or on a football stadium....THEY need to start spending so jobs can be created.....at this point they have withdrawn and are holding on to their money tightly....

The vast majority of Americans are not the rich. The vast majority of Americans are far more capable of stimulating the economy by consumer spending than the rich.

Why do Conservatives think that by only giving the rich tax breaks the economy will suddenly spring to life? Give everyone making $50,000 or less tax breaks and the spending will happen.

Sometimes I think conservatives are like the New York Yankees and their fans. If the Yankees can continue to buy championships in a league without salary caps, they are happy. With salary caps comes parity. More teams have a real chance at winning the World Series. Everyone then gets interested in baseball. Not just the richest teams and their fans.

Apply the baseball paradigm to the economy and suddenly coddling the rich seems silly when the big picture is considered.

Most people making 50 grand or less don't pay income taxes at all. Credits for low- and middle-income families have grown so much that a family of four making as much as $50,000 and with two children younger than 17 will owe no federal income tax for 2009, according to a separate analysis by the consulting firm Deloitte Tax. About 47 percent of Americans will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009.

 

[Nosmo King]

Hording, or keeping much more than necessary, hurts the economy and society....we need these rich guys to stop hording and SPEND SPEND SPEND....on yard workers, construction work, on clothes, on cars, boats, on building the community a new center, or on a football stadium....THEY need to start spending so jobs can be created.....at this point they have withdrawn and are holding on to their money tightly....

The vast majority of Americans are not the rich. The vast majority of Americans are far more capable of stimulating the economy by consumer spending than the rich.

Why do Conservatives think that by only giving the rich tax breaks the economy will suddenly spring to life? Give everyone making $50,000 or less tax breaks and the spending will happen.

Sometimes I think conservatives are like the New York Yankees and their fans. If the Yankees can continue to buy championships in a league without salary caps, they are happy. With salary caps comes parity. More teams have a real chance at winning the World Series. Everyone then gets interested in baseball. Not just the richest teams and their fans.

Apply the baseball paradigm to the economy and suddenly coddling the rich seems silly when the big picture is considered.

Most under 50K to not pay income taxes anyway... hell, ~50% of the citizenry pays no federal income tax

I am not for tax breaks, per se.... I am for the equalization of tax rates so that every citizen pays the same % on every dollar earned... I am not for a punishment based system with some paying and others skating by with no payment and receiving governmental handouts

You have no right to salary cap the free society we supposedly live in

I make less than $55,000. I pay taxes. I have taxes deducted from each and every pay check. I filed a tax return each and every year. And yet I get no tax breaks on April 15. I have paid on average an additional $450-$700 each year. I find no solace in your anecdote.

 

[DiamondDave]

The vast majority of Americans are not the rich. The vast majority of Americans are far more capable of stimulating the economy by consumer spending than the rich.

Why do Conservatives think that by only giving the rich tax breaks the economy will suddenly spring to life? Give everyone making $50,000 or less tax breaks and the spending will happen.

Sometimes I think conservatives are like the New York Yankees and their fans. If the Yankees can continue to buy championships in a league without salary caps, they are happy. With salary caps comes parity. More teams have a real chance at winning the World Series. Everyone then gets interested in baseball. Not just the richest teams and their fans.

Apply the baseball paradigm to the economy and suddenly coddling the rich seems silly when the big picture is considered.

Most under 50K to not pay income taxes anyway... hell, ~50% of the citizenry pays no federal income tax

I am not for tax breaks, per se.... I am for the equalization of tax rates so that every citizen pays the same % on every dollar earned... I am not for a punishment based system with some paying and others skating by with no payment and receiving governmental handouts

You have no right to salary cap the free society we supposedly live in

I make less than $55,000. I pay taxes. I have taxes deducted from each and every pay check. I filed a tax return each and every year. And yet I get no tax breaks on April 15. I have paid on average an additional $450-$700 each year. I find no solace in your anecdote.

Does not take away from the fact that most people earning less than 50K pay no income taxes

Everyone earning above a certain amount is indeed required to fill out an income tax return.. this has nothing to do with the discussion, and why you added that into the statements you made is puzzling

Remember also we are not talking SS, or state taxes or whatever.. and we are not just talking what is deducted by the employer on the paycheck, but we are talking about the fact that most making less than 50K have no federal income tax burden

 

[Nosmo King]

Most under 50K to not pay income taxes anyway... hell, ~50% of the citizenry pays no federal income tax

I am not for tax breaks, per se.... I am for the equalization of tax rates so that every citizen pays the same % on every dollar earned... I am not for a punishment based system with some paying and others skating by with no payment and receiving governmental handouts

You have no right to salary cap the free society we supposedly live in

I make less than $55,000. I pay taxes. I have taxes deducted from each and every pay check. I filed a tax return each and every year. And yet I get no tax breaks on April 15. I have paid on average an additional $450-$700 each year. I find no solace in your anecdote.

Does not take away from the fact that most people earning less than 50K pay no income taxes

Everyone earning above a certain amount is indeed required to fill out an income tax return.. this has nothing to do with the discussion, and why you added that into the statements you made is puzzling

Remember also we are not talking SS, or state taxes or whatever.. and we are not just talking what is deducted by the employer on the paycheck, but we are talking about the fact that most making less than 50K have no federal income tax burden

I know the difference between the payroll deductions for state, local Social Security etc. I know what's deducted for federal income tax. I also know what I must pay on my 1040 form every year.

I find this little anecdote Conservatives hide behind while defending lower tax rates on those making a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR more than just a little disingenuous. I find it intellectually dishonest.

 

[DiamondDave]

I make less than $55,000. I pay taxes. I have taxes deducted from each and every pay check. I filed a tax return each and every year. And yet I get no tax breaks on April 15. I have paid on average an additional $450-$700 each year. I find no solace in your anecdote.

Does not take away from the fact that most people earning less than 50K pay no income taxes

Everyone earning above a certain amount is indeed required to fill out an income tax return.. this has nothing to do with the discussion, and why you added that into the statements you made is puzzling

Remember also we are not talking SS, or state taxes or whatever.. and we are not just talking what is deducted by the employer on the paycheck, but we are talking about the fact that most making less than 50K have no federal income tax burden

I know the difference between the payroll deductions for state, local Social Security etc. I know what's deducted for federal income tax. I also know what I must pay on my 1040 form every year.

I find this little anecdote Conservatives hide behind while defending lower tax rates on those making a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR more than just a little disingenuous. I find it intellectually dishonest.

I do not see where conservatives advocated LOWER tax rates for anyone making 250K... I can see where many complain about the MILLIONS paying no federal income taxes... I can see the complaints about unequal taxation rates in a society supposedly based on equality and equal treatment by government... but I do not see anyone calling for the 'rich' to pay lower rates than others

As stated.. none of your rant takes anything away from the fact that the majority of persons making under 50K have no federal income tax burden

I find you intellectually lacking and dishonest

 

[chanel]

Are there caps on the Fannie/Freddie people? How much do they make or have the potential of making?

BTW mud - the highest paid state employee in NJ is the Rutgers Football coach - 2 mil package. How about caps on govt workers? Oh wait... NOT FOOTBALL!!!

The same logic that says a CEO is worth multiple millions due to her ability to make profit is to be used when looking at a major college football coaches salary.

Oh. I'm sorry. I pointed out logic to you. My bad!

Huh? We are talking about private vs. public. Also - last I checked the taxpayers of NJ were "bailing out" Rutgers football team that cost millions for the school, yet went ahead with building a 100 million dollar stadium.

Sorry to get off topic - but it amazes me how its ok to "hate the rich" just as long as they aren't sports idols.

I am going to google the pay of Frannie/Freddie execs. Back in a few.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I make less than $55,000. I pay taxes. I have taxes deducted from each and every pay check. I filed a tax return each and every year. And yet I get no tax breaks on April 15. I have paid on average an additional $450-$700 each year. I find no solace in your anecdote.

Does not take away from the fact that most people earning less than 50K pay no income taxes

Everyone earning above a certain amount is indeed required to fill out an income tax return.. this has nothing to do with the discussion, and why you added that into the statements you made is puzzling

Remember also we are not talking SS, or state taxes or whatever.. and we are not just talking what is deducted by the employer on the paycheck, but we are talking about the fact that most making less than 50K have no federal income tax burden

I know the difference between the payroll deductions for state, local Social Security etc. I know what's deducted for federal income tax. I also know what I must pay on my 1040 form every year.

I find this little anecdote Conservatives hide behind while defending lower tax rates on those making a QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR more than just a little disingenuous. I find it intellectually dishonest.

You whine about paying a few hundred dollars every year for federal taxes. How much do you think people making over 250 grand a year pays? My taxes for 2009 was more than you made the entire year.

Fact is the top 5% pay 53.25% of all income taxes. The top 10% pay 64.89% , The top 25% pay 82.9%. The top 50% pay 96.03%. The bottom 50%? They pay a paltry 3.97% of all income taxes.

 

[chanel]

White House wants to limit executive pay, but ignores Fannie and Freddie outrages | Washington Examiner

Found it;

"Combined compensation for top 12 execs at Fannie/Freddie was 42 million dollars."

What say you Dems?

 

[boedicca]

What are you talking about? When has anyone suggested capping anyone's salary except for bailed out companies? If a company is so deep in the weeds that they will go bankrupt if not propped up, they sure as hell don't need to be paying their executives 7 figure salaries. I just don't understand how you "conservatives" reconcile that.

That is incorrect.

The Fed forced companies that did not want the money to take it (based on the "not wanting to tip off the markets regarding which banks were really in trouble"). They have now repaid that money, with interest.

Allowing the Feds to control the compensation of private sector executives who were forced to accept loans they did not want is an extreme abuse of power. If that becomes the precedent, we are all potential victims of such "loan shark" tactics.

 

[boedicca]

White House wants to limit executive pay, but ignores Fannie and Freddie outrages | Washington Examiner

Found it;

"Combined compensation for top 12 execs at Fannie/Freddie was 42 million dollars."

What say you Dems?

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have long provided patronage jobs to politicians' close connections. They are not real companies - as the comp policy demonstrates.

 

[FrankieGA]

Lets not forget that these are "PRIVATE" business' no matter what your allegiance is. Federal Gov't should not have a say in what there salaries are. If they want to do that then they need to Mandate the all sports, music, move, and tv stars follow suit. Why not just put a cap on everyone who works, with the only way to get a raise is by petitioning the Fed's to let you have one. Wake up people, Gov't does not belong in the business of the PRIVATE sector. Never has never will!!

 

[Care4all]

What are you talking about? When has anyone suggested capping anyone's salary except for bailed out companies? If a company is so deep in the weeds that they will go bankrupt if not propped up, they sure as hell don't need to be paying their executives 7 figure salaries. I just don't understand how you "conservatives" reconcile that.

That is incorrect.

The Fed forced companies that did not want the money to take it (based on the "not wanting to tip off the markets regarding which banks were really in trouble"). They have now repaid that money, with interest.

Allowing the Feds to control the compensation of private sector executives who were forced to accept loans they did not want is an extreme abuse of power. If that becomes the precedent, we are all potential victims of such "loan shark" tactics.

But if they did not need it, and they paid it back as you stated Boe, then they would not be forced to have a cap on the ceo salary...because they paid back the money borrowed already....? Therefore they are no longer under the gvt's thumb, right?

This is why the cap of $500k is A GOOD THING....it is an incentive for ceo's not to take risks that the gvt is going to have to bail them out of....if they want their millions in salary, then don't be incompetent when you run the too big to fail company you are getting paid millions to do....

 

[chanel]

Ah but don't dare call Obama a "socialist".

 

[saveliberty]

What are you talking about? When has anyone suggested capping anyone's salary except for bailed out companies? If a company is so deep in the weeds that they will go bankrupt if not propped up, they sure as hell don't need to be paying their executives 7 figure salaries. I just don't understand how you "conservatives" reconcile that.

That is incorrect.

The Fed forced companies that did not want the money to take it (based on the "not wanting to tip off the markets regarding which banks were really in trouble"). They have now repaid that money, with interest.

Allowing the Feds to control the compensation of private sector executives who were forced to accept loans they did not want is an extreme abuse of power. If that becomes the precedent, we are all potential victims of such "loan shark" tactics.

But if they did not need it, and they paid it back as you stated Boe, then they would not be forced to have a cap on the ceo salary...because they paid back the money borrowed already....? Therefore they are no longer under the gvt's thumb, right?

This is why the cap of $500k is A GOOD THING....it is an incentive for ceo's not to take risks that the gvt is going to have to bail them out of....if they want their millions in salary, then don't be incompetent when you run the too big to fail company you are getting paid millions to do....

Can we apply these standards to government employees? I mean, the government is bankrupt in all but actually filing.

 

[FrankieGA]

So your saying that if you fall under the Govt's "Thumb" then salaries should stay no more than 500k per year?

Then read the previous post that states salaries and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.... Oh wait, not those companies, they are too important to fuck with. I believe they almost bankrupted too.

 

[boedicca]

But if they did not need it, and they paid it back as you stated Boe, then they would not be forced to have a cap on the ceo salary...because they paid back the money borrowed already....? Therefore they are no longer under the gvt's thumb, right?

This is why the cap of $500k is A GOOD THING....it is an incentive for ceo's not to take risks that the gvt is going to have to bail them out of....if they want their millions in salary, then don't be incompetent when you run the too big to fail company you are getting paid millions to do....

That's not what is being proposed - they are trying to sweep all of them under this.

The $500K cap is not a good thing. Past controls on exec comp caused compensation packages to be heavily weighted towards stock options. Much of the big increase in pay that is decried is due to option gains - which encouraged a focus on short term strategies to pump up the stock price.

A Cap will just result in alternate forms of comp to make up the difference which, like all such attempts at control, will have Unintended Consequences.

The real solution is to get rid of the Too Big Too Fail Concept, let companies experience the results of their risk taking, and keep government out of it.

 

[Care4all]

That is incorrect.

The Fed forced companies that did not want the money to take it (based on the "not wanting to tip off the markets regarding which banks were really in trouble"). They have now repaid that money, with interest.

Allowing the Feds to control the compensation of private sector executives who were forced to accept loans they did not want is an extreme abuse of power. If that becomes the precedent, we are all potential victims of such "loan shark" tactics.

But if they did not need it, and they paid it back as you stated Boe, then they would not be forced to have a cap on the ceo salary...because they paid back the money borrowed already....? Therefore they are no longer under the gvt's thumb, right?

This is why the cap of $500k is A GOOD THING....it is an incentive for ceo's not to take risks that the gvt is going to have to bail them out of....if they want their millions in salary, then don't be incompetent when you run the too big to fail company you are getting paid millions to do....

Can we apply these standards to government employees? I mean, the government is bankrupt in all but actually filing.

They probably should be in a Chapter 11, restructuring bankruptcy!

Government employees at both the State and the federal level need to be reduced, no question....

But so far, there has been NOTHING to stop the ceo's of companies too big to fail, failing and coming back to us AGAIN.....

I see the salary cap an incentive, for these CEO's to run their companies soundly, and not put their companies at the risk that they did previously, where the gvt HAD TO bail them out....

If they want their kazillion millions in salaries and don't want to be capped by the gvt, then run their companies so that they do not need the gvt to bail them out of their own POOR BUSINESS DECISIONS....

So, this gives incentive for them NOT to come back to the gvt for a hand out if they mess up.