Secession movement in New York pushes for Big Apple to split from Upstate

[Bombur]

Again, Upstate is 100% dependent upon the tax revenue from Downstate.

That is factually false.

Link?

NYC accounts for roughly 41% of the state's population and about 61% of their Medicaid enrollees. Roughly 38% of NYC is on Medicaid.

If there were two states there would be an even greater incentive for people to move just over the border as NYC tries to support that population.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The upstate would be perfectly capable of supporting itself. There is more to New York than NYC. It's the downstate that wouldn't allow it to happen.

How would you expect upstate to support itself, exactly?

Is this a serious question? How do New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, Wyoming, Montana, and all of these other sparsely populated states that are a fraction of the size of upstate New York support themselves, exactly?

As I said earlier, New York is a lot more than just NYC and Long Island. There are several urban areas throughout the state that contribute to the state's overall economy and there is a good possibility that if they were free from the albatross of leftist economic policies that are plagued upon them by the downstate many of those Rust Belt cities could experience a rebirth in the long run.

I spent almost a decade working professionally in NYS politics. I can assure you that I'm well aware of what New York is, both geographically and politically.

New York City and the surrounding area provide 73% of the State's tax revenue, and receive only 57% of state's spending.

The entire state excluding the NYC area only represents 23% of tax revenue, and 35% of the state's spending.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

That is factually false.

Link?

100% dependent? You need me to provide a link that nobody in upstate New York earns an income and that absolutely zero businesses exist in the entire region?

A second grader can tell you that isn't true without an Internet link.

I misunderstood your remark. You are correct.

23% isn't 0%.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

How would you expect upstate to support itself, exactly?

Is this a serious question? How do New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, Wyoming, Montana, and all of these other sparsely populated states that are a fraction of the size of upstate New York support themselves, exactly?

As I said earlier, New York is a lot more than just NYC and Long Island. There are several urban areas throughout the state that contribute to the state's overall economy and there is a good possibility that if they were free from the albatross of leftist economic policies that are plagued upon them by the downstate many of those Rust Belt cities could experience a rebirth in the long run.

I spent almost a decade working professionally in NYS politics. I can assure you that I'm well aware of what New York is, both geographically and politically.

New York City and the surrounding area provide 73% of the State's tax revenue, and receive only 57% of state's spending.

The entire state excluding the NYC area only represents 23% of tax revenue, and 35% of the state's spending.

That doesn't render it incapable of supporting itself as a separate state. As I pointed out below, there are several existing states far less populous and with less industry that are already doing so. You're also dismissing the potential growth that could occur with different economic policies.

 

[Victory67]

The 5 counties of NYC account for 45% of the State's tax revenue. The downstate suburbs (Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Rockland, Rye) account for another 27%.

The entire rest of the state accounts for 24% of the State's tax revenue.

Without NYC and surrounding counties, New York State would die a lonely and meaningless death.

They always could of course quadruple property and income tax, but I doubt that would make up the difference.

 

[Victory67]

The upstate would be perfectly capable of supporting itself. There is more to New York than NYC. It's the downstate that wouldn't allow it to happen.

How would Upstate survive without all the Downstate tax revenue?

Are you willing to see your State income and property taxes quadruple?

 

[francoHFW]

OP- NOT happening in the real world. AT ALL lol.

 

[Victory67]

How big is this Upstate secession movement?

23 peeps?

 

[007]

What this all boils down to, in whatever state, is the more conservative rural areas are sick and tired of having the city slicker liberals dominate the entire political climate of the state.

If there are no sessions, this problem will just fester like an open wound, so if you don't think there's trouble comin', then you're just lying to yourself.

 

[Pheonixops]

Won't happen.

Why not? If Suffolk and Nassau County align themselves with the Upstate Counties, they'll have more than enough votes, manpower and political will to overcome NYC.

The Soviet Union collapsed for the same purposes. All of its members overpowered the central authority. That is what's about to happen to Emperor Cuomo of the Empire State, a reenactment of the Fall of the Roman empire.

Do you really think that Nassau and Suffolk counties would align themselves with Upstate? Do you think that Nassau and Suffolk would carry most of the financial burden in that arrangement? If you look at the excerpt below, I could the possibility for NYC and Long Island to get together.

" If indeed it is better to give than receive, New York City and its suburbs can count their blessings by the billions of dollars. City residents and businesses paid about $4.1 billion more to Albany in taxes and fees than the state returned in spending for education, health care, transit and other services in 2009-10. For the nearby suburban counties (Nassau, Suffolk, Rockland and Westchester), it was $7.9 billion more in taxes than came back in spending, a new Rockefeller Institute study finds.[1]

Where did the extra $12 billion go? North and west, up the Hudson River and along the Thruway corridor to Upstate regions that have struggled economically for much of the last half-century.

In fiscal 2010, the Upstate region generated less than 28 percent of the state’s taxes and other non-federal revenues (including SUNY tuition, lottery and other gambling profits, motor vehicle fees and so on). By contrast, Upstate received a much larger share of state-funded expenditures, 42 percent.

Look Downstate, and the ratios reverse. New York City generated 45 percent of state revenues in 2010, but received 40 percent of spending. The gap is even larger for the four major suburban counties: a collective 24 percent of revenues paid to Albany, and 18 percent of expenditures received in return.

The state’s largest source of non-federal revenue, the personal income tax, is particularly concentrated Downstate. New York City and its suburbs represent 64 percent of state residents, but around 80 percent of the income tax. "

Observation: Downstate Pays More, Upstate Gets More: Does It Matter?

 

[bodecea]

Any way we could get them to secede from the US?

Much better for us to have Texas secede.

 

[Pheonixops]

Won't happen.

Why not? If Suffolk and Nassau County align themselves with the Upstate Counties, they'll have more than enough votes, manpower and political will to overcome NYC.

The Soviet Union collapsed for the same purposes. All of its members overpowered the central authority. That is what's about to happen to Emperor Cuomo of the Empire State, a reenactment of the Fall of the Roman empire.

Suffolk and Nassau only exist because they're NYC commuter towns.

That's pretty true for Western Suffolk and Nassau county. Yes there are plenty of commuters from Eastern Suffolk (I was one) , but there's also some industries there as well.

 

[Victory67]

The state’s largest source of non-federal revenue, the personal income tax, is particularly concentrated Downstate. New York City and its suburbs represent 64 percent of state residents, but around 80 percent of the income tax. "

Observation: Downstate Pays More, Upstate Gets More: Does It Matter?

So we now know that Upstaters are just mooching off the hard work of Downstaters.

And they want to secede.

 

[Pheonixops]

Why not? If Suffolk and Nassau County align themselves with the Upstate Counties, they'll have more than enough votes, manpower and political will to overcome NYC.

The Soviet Union collapsed for the same purposes. All of its members overpowered the central authority. That is what's about to happen to Emperor Cuomo of the Empire State, a reenactment of the Fall of the Roman empire.

Nassau, Suffolk, NYC, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam, Dutchess are one big fiscal-social area. They would want to stay with NYC.

Yep, especial the first five on the list.

 

[Victory67]

"If indeed it is better to give than receive, New York City and its suburbs can count their blessings by the billions of dollars. City residents and businesses paid about $4.1 billion more to Albany in taxes and fees than the state returned in spending for education, health care, transit and other services in 2009-10. For the nearby suburban counties (Nassau, Suffolk, Rockland and Westchester), it was $7.9 billion more in taxes than came back in spending, a new Rockefeller Institute study finds.[1]

Where did the extra $12 billion go? North and west, up the Hudson River and along the Thruway corridor to Upstate regions that have struggled economically for much of the last half-century.

In fiscal 2010, the Upstate region generated less than 28 percent of the state’s taxes and other non-federal revenues (including SUNY tuition, lottery and other gambling profits, motor vehicle fees and so on). By contrast, Upstate received a much larger share of state-funded expenditures, 42 percent.

Moochers better count their blessings. If they get their wish, and secede from the State, they will be up shit's creek in desperate need of revenue. They will BEG Downstate to come back.

 

[Pheonixops]

New York State no longer wants to be dominated by New York City. Like central California no longer wants to be told what to do by Los Angeles. Maryland is tired of Baltimore. Colorado wants to split from Denver and Boulder. Even eastern Washington state wants nothing to do with the Western part of the state and liberal Seattle.

See how they feel when they don't receive NYC's money. Suffolk and Nassau don't want to foot the bill for Upstate New York, they would be better off aligning with NYC. The whole talk of this secession crap is silly, but it's still fun to "play".

 

[thereisnospoon]

Won't happen.

Why not? If Suffolk and Nassau County align themselves with the Upstate Counties, they'll have more than enough votes, manpower and political will to overcome NYC.

The Soviet Union collapsed for the same purposes. All of its members overpowered the central authority. That is what's about to happen to Emperor Cuomo of the Empire State, a reenactment of the Fall of the Roman empire.

Suffolk and Nassau only exist because they're NYC commuter towns.

Yeah? And?....Are you implying that if NYC were to become the 51st state, Long Island would cease to be a commuter community?
Can you please try to be a little less pointless?

 

[thereisnospoon]

It would be horrible for the Albany area.

Explain.

The greater Albany area used to have a fair amount of industry in Schenectady and Troy but those industries went away decades ago. Now the Albany area relies heavily on the bureaucracy in Albany for jobs. Upstate in general would probably benefit but not Albany.

Not really seeing your logic here.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Why not? If Suffolk and Nassau County align themselves with the Upstate Counties, they'll have more than enough votes, manpower and political will to overcome NYC.

The Soviet Union collapsed for the same purposes. All of its members overpowered the central authority. That is what's about to happen to Emperor Cuomo of the Empire State, a reenactment of the Fall of the Roman empire.

Nassau, Suffolk, NYC, Westchester, Rockland, Putnam, Dutchess are one big fiscal-social area. They would want to stay with NYC.

What makes you state that?
Where are you from? Do you live in the NY Metro area?
Are you originally from there?

 

[Pheonixops]

"If indeed it is better to give than receive, New York City and its suburbs can count their blessings by the billions of dollars. City residents and businesses paid about $4.1 billion more to Albany in taxes and fees than the state returned in spending for education, health care, transit and other services in 2009-10. For the nearby suburban counties (Nassau, Suffolk, Rockland and Westchester), it was $7.9 billion more in taxes than came back in spending, a new Rockefeller Institute study finds.[1]

Where did the extra $12 billion go? North and west, up the Hudson River and along the Thruway corridor to Upstate regions that have struggled economically for much of the last half-century.

In fiscal 2010, the Upstate region generated less than 28 percent of the state’s taxes and other non-federal revenues (including SUNY tuition, lottery and other gambling profits, motor vehicle fees and so on). By contrast, Upstate received a much larger share of state-funded expenditures, 42 percent.

Moochers better count their blessings. If they get their wish, and secede from the State, they will be up shit's creek in desperate need of revenue. They will BEG Downstate to come back.

LOL, that's why the whole idea is laughable.