Secession from Obama’s America

[ihopehefails]

It's been fascinating over the last year to see conservatives abandon Lincoln in favor of Jefferson Davis.

Thats because his expansion of the federal government was wrong and it destroyed federalism in a way that it should not have been destroyed. He should have destroyed it with legal action that would have gone through political debate instead of launching a war to end it.

 

[ihopehefails]

The biggest problem with this thread title ... and why I call bullshit on it ...


... by seceding, they are taking the American spirit with them, because our countries here were founded by secession and rebellion, not by conformity and dictatorship.

The country was founded on the principle of national unity. Otherwise the founders would have simply been content to form 13 countries.

If that is the case then it is a pretty crappy national government where it only has 17 powers dealing with war and trade. Nothing about punishing criminals, marriage, etc, etc, etc, and etc. You would think that if they would have added some powers for doing so if they wanted the federal government to govern internally.

 

[NYcarbineer]

lol, a bunch of big talking couch pilots.

As Billy Bragg said

"...join the struggle while you may,

the revolution is just a t-shirt away..."

And they come in XXXL now, so you cons can rebel in comfort!

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's been fascinating over the last year to see conservatives abandon Lincoln in favor of Jefferson Davis.

Thats because his expansion of the federal government was wrong and it destroyed federalism in a way that it should not have been destroyed. He should have destroyed it with legal action that would have gone through political debate instead of launching a war to end it.

The South launched the war. They uncommitted the unlawful act of secession and asserted it by force of arms, which, interestingly,

made them unlawful combatants.

lol

 

[goldcatt]

It does raise an interesting question though, at what point does out of control spending, power grabs, and expanding Federal Govt. get to the point where it spurs people to action? To the progressive , they would say, great we are finally changing the nation into their vision, to the conservative it is a direction they would say, that direction does not reflect the United States of America rather it reflects a vision of of other well known and less than stellar nations, the former Soviet Union comes to mind. To the Independant, it means that the people in power do not have their best interest at heart and need to be replaced in order secure a future for our children and grandchildren. While we all share a sense of what is good for nation from a moral standpoint well at least most of us, in that we don't wish to see people starving, or dying of disease, or not have any hope. It is in the end how we address those issues that will define us. I have always thought that you can take the best ideas from 2 people and make a house stronger than simply going on your own and demanding everyone like your vision. That is the essesance of what we are SUPPOSED to be about, honest debate, and in that debate to reach a conclusion that best reflects the desires of ALL of US not just some of US.

The US is at heart a centrist nation, whatever the partisan hacks may try to tell you. And the pendulum has always swung back and forth between liberal and conservative over time to keep that balance. At any given time, the government is enacting policies that are going to go against the desires of some greater or lesser portion of the people. That's reality no matter who wins an election.

But you're right about honest debate being necessary. The entire system was set up to encourage just such debate from several angles, before it was hijacked by money and partisan hacks more interested in tactics than policy. I don't care where an idea comes from, I care that it's a good one. Maybe that's because I prefer to focus on solving the problem rather than blaming someone for it. Idoeological purity is fine as a theory on paper, but it doesn't create a job or protect a citizen. Why is that so hard for the extremists to understand?

How is having an opinion make someone an extremist? Most people like peperoni on their pizza but a few "extremist" like anchovis. No one ever tells the guy who likes anchovis that he shouldn't like them because most other people like peperoni so why do "extremist" get told that they can't have their opinion about things because their opinion is outside the realm of mainstream thought.

It's a free country, again regardless of the crap the hacks scream from the rooftops. Everyone's entitled to an opinion. But extremism, advocating violence as some on this thread have done, and pitting us against each other for team tactics is destructive rather than constructive. It may serve the ideology, but it fails the people and the nation. If that's what you honestly want, ideology before nation and its citizens, so be it. But the rest of us have just as much a right to point out your folly as you have to hold it.

 

[WillowTree]

The biggest problem with this thread title ... and why I call bullshit on it ...


... by seceding, they are taking the American spirit with them, because our countries here were founded by secession and rebellion, not by conformity and dictatorship.

The country was founded on the principle of national unity. Otherwise the founders would have simply been content to form 13 countries.

national unity my azz.. when's the last time you saw any national unity?

 

[chanel]

9/11. How soon we forget.

 

[WillowTree]

9/11. How soon we forget.

based on the liberal behavior,, nowadays,, I'd just say their "unity" was all show, they ran like rats when the going got tough.. consider that today,, they are taking pictures of the CIA and giving them to the terrorists.. whose side do you think they are on?

 

[goldcatt]

9/11. How soon we forget.

based on the liberal behavior,, nowadays,, I'd just say their "unity" was all show, they ran like rats when the going got tough..

And you have the guts to complain about a lack of national unity? What have you done to do anything but pit American against American and ratchet up the rhetoric for the benefit of your own "side"?

Not one damn thing.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The biggest problem with this thread title ... and why I call bullshit on it ...


... by seceding, they are taking the American spirit with them, because our countries here were founded by secession and rebellion, not by conformity and dictatorship.

The country was founded on the principle of national unity. Otherwise the founders would have simply been content to form 13 countries.

national unity my azz.. when's the last time you saw any national unity?

You dispute the fact that the founders wanted a unified nation? You dispute the fact that 70 years later, when that unity was challenged, that unity prevailed?

 

[NYcarbineer]

9/11. How soon we forget.

based on the liberal behavior,, nowadays,, I'd just say their "unity" was all show, they ran like rats when the going got tough.. consider that today,, they are taking pictures of the CIA and giving them to the terrorists.. whose side do you think they are on?

The 'going getting tough' was precipitated by George Bush deciding to invade Iraq and in the process make the worst foreign policy decision in recent memory.

 

[WillowTree]

9/11. How soon we forget.

based on the liberal behavior,, nowadays,, I'd just say their "unity" was all show, they ran like rats when the going got tough..

And you have the guts to complain about a lack of national unity? What have you done to do anything but pit American against American and ratchet up the rhetoric for the benefit of your own "side"?

Not one damn thing.

Hey! I'm not complaining,, I've accepted it as fact. I've sat and watched your elected RAT pit the rich against the poor, black against, white, latino against white, Fox against his media, and now the Insurance companies are villians, I've sat and watched all you Rats villianize anybody who doesn't march lockstep with your regime so don't try to tell me about National Unity.. you can take your brand of unity and shove it right straight up your rattly little butt.

 

[namvet]

[youtube]pU6GSl2yu_o[/youtube]

did someone mention liberal behavior???​

 

[goldcatt]

based on the liberal behavior,, nowadays,, I'd just say their "unity" was all show, they ran like rats when the going got tough..

And you have the guts to complain about a lack of national unity? What have you done to do anything but pit American against American and ratchet up the rhetoric for the benefit of your own "side"?

Not one damn thing.

Hey! I'm not complaining,, I've accepted it as fact. I've sat and watched your elected RAT pit the rich against the poor, black against, white, latino against white, Fox against his media, and now the Insurance companies are villians, I've sat and watched all you Rats villianize anybody who doesn't march lockstep with your regime so don't try to tell me about National Unity.. you can take your brand of unity and shove it right straight up your rattly little butt.

Nice assumption on your part, but what can one expect from an ass?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Rightwingers are oh so slowly realizing that their agenda is dead, that the country is moving on and leaving them and their agenda in the trash heap of history. Of COURSE it produces anger.

Sorry rightwingers, you are losing because of nothing more than simple mathematics. There simply aren't enough of you to advance your agenda at the national level - which of course might be remedied somewhat in your favor with some sort of secession(s), or in other words, if we did Balkanize the country...

...hmmm...isn't that an interesting switch. Wasn't not that many years ago that conservatives were the ones attacking the left for wanting to 'Balkanize' America?

The irony never ends.

 

[PixieStix]

Obama is a thief, he is stealing the hope away from all Americans.

He and his cohorts has done so much in so little time

 

[WillowTree]

9/11. How soon we forget.

based on the liberal behavior,, nowadays,, I'd just say their "unity" was all show, they ran like rats when the going got tough.. consider that today,, they are taking pictures of the CIA and giving them to the terrorists.. whose side do you think they are on?

The 'going getting tough' was precipitated by George Bush deciding to invade Iraq and in the process make the worst foreign policy decision in recent memory.

yes,, so then you guys said "**** unity" didn't ya? Case closed!

 

[WillowTree]

And you have the guts to complain about a lack of national unity? What have you done to do anything but pit American against American and ratchet up the rhetoric for the benefit of your own "side"?

Not one damn thing.

Hey! I'm not complaining,, I've accepted it as fact. I've sat and watched your elected RAT pit the rich against the poor, black against, white, latino against white, Fox against his media, and now the Insurance companies are villians, I've sat and watched all you Rats villianize anybody who doesn't march lockstep with your regime so don't try to tell me about National Unity.. you can take your brand of unity and shove it right straight up your rattly little butt.

Nice assumption on your part, but what can one expect from an ass?

no assumptions there padner,, it's all fact,, everybody's seen it..

 

[rightwinger]

could we have a civil war on your hands liberals ???? i do hope so

Doesn't bother me...you will lose again

 

[goldcatt]

Hey! I'm not complaining,, I've accepted it as fact. I've sat and watched your elected RAT pit the rich against the poor, black against, white, latino against white, Fox against his media, and now the Insurance companies are villians, I've sat and watched all you Rats villianize anybody who doesn't march lockstep with your regime so don't try to tell me about National Unity.. you can take your brand of unity and shove it right straight up your rattly little butt.

Nice assumption on your part, but what can one expect from an ass?

no assumptions there padner,, it's all fact,, everybody's seen it..

So now "everybody" has seen me, personally, pit groups against each other, villanize everybody with whom I do not agree, march in lockstep ewith the current regime, and explain in detail my idea of national unity. And this is evidence to back up something I assume is supposed to be some kind of argument.